Hey I've got an Acura/Rover/Honda lagend that I'm attempting to put a new stereo in. The original unit was hardwired at the back (no removable loom) I've managed to get the power, ignition and earth all setup so the units running but I've hit a snag with the speakers...theres only 5 wires for the 4 speakers...I'm guessing one wire is earth and the other 4 are the +'s for the speakers...but when I wired up and tested the balance and front rear fade...the speakers were crossed over...so i tried switching the wires to make the fade right but when i go to right fade all the speakers go fuzzy and i lose the sound....there is two other wires for the car but i know one is the dimmer wire...whilst the other i think is for the power antenna (no longer existant)
Anyway do you think its possible that the car has 1 negative wire for all speakers and a dedicated positive for each? Anyway to test with an ampmeter or anything to find out what is what?....cheers
Replies (5)
swez on 08/11/2007 12:01:07
This is very strange indeed. Do you know if this system has internal amps for the speakers?
Part of the answer may be the fact that someone cut off the OEM wire harness and may have mistakenly trimmed some speaker wires (grounds and bundled them to a single ground you see now, and they are now buried in the dash? (That makes no sense at all, but look anyway)
Some of the older cars did use common grounds for speakers. (One hot wire per speaker and earth is the body/chassis) That won't fly well with most aftermarket HU's today.
If it were me doing this project, I would test the speaker wires with an Ohmeter. That is, probe each speaker feed with the meter and listen for pops as we probe each line to determine which wire goes to what speakers) Record your results and color code each wire for later.
RF,LF,RR & LR
I would also be looking at a speaker that is easy to see and look at the wiring that connects to them. (Rear boot speakers are often the easy way) If you note one colored wire to a speaker terminal and the other is grounded to the body, a rewire job is the only good option. (Run fresh speaker wires to each speaker location from the dash. (This is a lot of work, but worth it) Now you'll know exactly what wires go where and then connect to the new HU. (ID each wire set for later install wiring at the HU)
Comments?
Swez
paz on 08/11/2007 20:41:32
Ok so the unit I'm replacing is the factory one, therefore nothing has been changed by anyone else. I checked the wires to the rear speakers and their totally different colors (wires at unit are red and blue..whilst at rear speakers are brown!?) It did cross my mind that the car could have an amp....but I've never seen it anywhere and its an old car with a very unsophisticated system (or so i thought!)...I don't really wanna start messing around with running new cables and the likes, because i'm selling the car in a few months(if it lasts that long...its a bit of a lemon)...i just had and old kenwood unit with a cd stacker lying around that i thought i would chuck in.
Anyway I'll go have another fiddle with it today now its light (I'm in australia btw) I'll let ya know if theres any breakthroughs...any other thoughts in the meantime would be awesome, Thanks
swez on 08/12/2007 06:28:00
If this vehicle is pre-1985, it could indeed be a chassis grounded HU system and no amps. (A real basic system here... no frills)
A factory stock HU may have been using the body as the ground return or a common ground wire for all speakers. If replacing the factory HU with aftermarket, you may have few options but to rewire the speakers as mentioned earlier.
Comments?
Swez
paz on 08/12/2007 07:57:30
Ok so I just spent the entire day messing around and finally all systems are go..(damn I hate Japanese cars, everythings just crammed in!)
I ended up removing most of the console and dash which took most of the morning...I found the loom buried right at the back and sure enough there was one wire spliced into four for the speakers(was this common practice in older cars?, its seems terribly lazy)...anyway I ended up just modifying the loom so each speaker has its own - and +.
It seems to be working well except i checked the speakers because the sound is terrible(high volumes and extreme bass rattles the speakers) I found that the rubber/cardboard that joins the cone to the speaker surround was totally deteriorated...only one solution here:) Replacement! I gotta say this has been the hardest stereo install ive had yet....ive done about 5 or so on various cars, usually only have to dedicate and arvo, but this was a nightmare...two days AGH!
Anyway thanks for all your help swez...when I get my new car and soundsystem I'll know where to come for help and tips;) Cheers
swez on 08/12/2007 08:49:23
That is unbelievable that anyone would have to go to such extremes to find what you noted. What's more unbelievable, was that I called that one, (A real shot in the dark) out of the hat and this is what you found??? Go figure huh? LOL This is like winning a lotto w/o playing. hehe
Glad you had the skills and patience to track this one down as this is not a normal way of doing things at all. Actually, most newer Japanese cars are a breeze to work on. Not so in this case, but in general terms, I have found most Japanese cars very easy to work on. (Newer models though)
If you plan to dump th car soon, consider some inexpensive Pioneer coaxial speakers. The package tray speakers often take the worst beating due to sunlight and as they age, cheap paper cones will eventually shred and fall apart.
Good luck and cheers,
Swez
Anyway do you think its possible that the car has 1 negative wire for all speakers and a dedicated positive for each? Anyway to test with an ampmeter or anything to find out what is what?....cheers
Replies (5)
swez on 08/11/2007 12:01:07
This is very strange indeed. Do you know if this system has internal amps for the speakers?
Part of the answer may be the fact that someone cut off the OEM wire harness and may have mistakenly trimmed some speaker wires (grounds and bundled them to a single ground you see now, and they are now buried in the dash? (That makes no sense at all, but look anyway)
Some of the older cars did use common grounds for speakers. (One hot wire per speaker and earth is the body/chassis) That won't fly well with most aftermarket HU's today.
If it were me doing this project, I would test the speaker wires with an Ohmeter. That is, probe each speaker feed with the meter and listen for pops as we probe each line to determine which wire goes to what speakers) Record your results and color code each wire for later.
RF,LF,RR & LR
I would also be looking at a speaker that is easy to see and look at the wiring that connects to them. (Rear boot speakers are often the easy way) If you note one colored wire to a speaker terminal and the other is grounded to the body, a rewire job is the only good option. (Run fresh speaker wires to each speaker location from the dash. (This is a lot of work, but worth it) Now you'll know exactly what wires go where and then connect to the new HU. (ID each wire set for later install wiring at the HU)
Comments?
Swez
paz on 08/11/2007 20:41:32
Ok so the unit I'm replacing is the factory one, therefore nothing has been changed by anyone else. I checked the wires to the rear speakers and their totally different colors (wires at unit are red and blue..whilst at rear speakers are brown!?) It did cross my mind that the car could have an amp....but I've never seen it anywhere and its an old car with a very unsophisticated system (or so i thought!)...I don't really wanna start messing around with running new cables and the likes, because i'm selling the car in a few months(if it lasts that long...its a bit of a lemon)...i just had and old kenwood unit with a cd stacker lying around that i thought i would chuck in.
Anyway I'll go have another fiddle with it today now its light (I'm in australia btw) I'll let ya know if theres any breakthroughs...any other thoughts in the meantime would be awesome, Thanks
swez on 08/12/2007 06:28:00
If this vehicle is pre-1985, it could indeed be a chassis grounded HU system and no amps. (A real basic system here... no frills)
A factory stock HU may have been using the body as the ground return or a common ground wire for all speakers. If replacing the factory HU with aftermarket, you may have few options but to rewire the speakers as mentioned earlier.
Comments?
Swez
paz on 08/12/2007 07:57:30
Ok so I just spent the entire day messing around and finally all systems are go..(damn I hate Japanese cars, everythings just crammed in!)
I ended up removing most of the console and dash which took most of the morning...I found the loom buried right at the back and sure enough there was one wire spliced into four for the speakers(was this common practice in older cars?, its seems terribly lazy)...anyway I ended up just modifying the loom so each speaker has its own - and +.
It seems to be working well except i checked the speakers because the sound is terrible(high volumes and extreme bass rattles the speakers) I found that the rubber/cardboard that joins the cone to the speaker surround was totally deteriorated...only one solution here:) Replacement! I gotta say this has been the hardest stereo install ive had yet....ive done about 5 or so on various cars, usually only have to dedicate and arvo, but this was a nightmare...two days AGH!
Anyway thanks for all your help swez...when I get my new car and soundsystem I'll know where to come for help and tips;) Cheers
swez on 08/12/2007 08:49:23
That is unbelievable that anyone would have to go to such extremes to find what you noted. What's more unbelievable, was that I called that one, (A real shot in the dark) out of the hat and this is what you found??? Go figure huh? LOL This is like winning a lotto w/o playing. hehe
Glad you had the skills and patience to track this one down as this is not a normal way of doing things at all. Actually, most newer Japanese cars are a breeze to work on. Not so in this case, but in general terms, I have found most Japanese cars very easy to work on. (Newer models though)
If you plan to dump th car soon, consider some inexpensive Pioneer coaxial speakers. The package tray speakers often take the worst beating due to sunlight and as they age, cheap paper cones will eventually shred and fall apart.
Good luck and cheers,
Swez
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