THINK I have a 1997 Toyota Corolla and I am interested to know if I having two SWR-1222's instead of one be too much for the car? OR If someone believes that a JBL P1222 would be a better purchase almost same price but lower RMS wattage I will be powering them with a Alpine MRD-M1005 Class D mono amp. I also would like to know if I should go ported or sealed thank you all for your help I AM SEMI-NEW at this.
Replies (36)
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 19:10:23
1000 rms will definitely overpower a stock electrical system especially in you car.
big 3 upgrade and a higher cca rated battery will definitely be needed (optima yellow top or others) and probably a H.O. Alternator will be needed to supply the current draw
the SWR subs are great subs and hold up well over time if treated well
as far as the enclosure what kind of music do you listen to??? sealed will give better cleaner and punchier bass but will lack in some of the lower bass notes while a ported box will provide better spl and lower bass notes
magikmac on 08/9/2007 19:22:52
I was thinking that I will purchase a capacitor but what does this help with and will this avoid buying other things? How big should the capacitor be?
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 20:00:04
capacitors will only make it worse they are a waste of money
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g5316
swez or anyone else wanna comment on this????
magikmac on 08/9/2007 20:03:25
K thanks for that read it makes sense
magikmac on 08/9/2007 20:38:57
Would I be able to buy a smaller version of that battery just to run the subs off of it ? would this be easy for any pro car installer to do without giving me a fuss ?
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 20:54:35
umm im not sure im still kind of new to this as well if one of the golds or other members are payin attention to this they can help you out with that more
i believe you can have another battery dedicated to just the amp hooked up using a battery isolator which shouldnt be too dificult but im really not sure
magikmac on 08/9/2007 20:58:19
ok great thanks alot you've been a great help
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 21:13:15
no problem ive had alot of help from everyone on here myself and im just tryin to return the favor
swez on 08/9/2007 21:35:05
If you want that much bass, there is a hidden cost that can eat your wallet alive. (Electrical upgrades)
Caps = Wasting $$
A very solid Combo for bass:
1. Alpine SWR-1242D (Sealed or Ported)
2. Alpine MRD-M650 amp (Very good match)
Future considerations... "Dang, I have strong bass now, but the Mid/Highs cannot keep up. What next?"
Comments?
Swez
magikmac on 08/9/2007 21:39:56
Well currently i have a Kenwood KAC-8151D powering a set of 6 inch Infinity Refference 6002i and MTX 6x9 thunderdomes with some small 4 inch panasonics in the front
magikmac on 08/9/2007 21:53:29
Will I need all those upgrades if i'm only going to have one sub instead of two ?
kirchatndftbl on 08/10/2007 01:22:23
one sub shouldnt put too much strain on thew stock electrical system the big 3 upgrade should help out quite a bit and is pretty cheap compared to other options
magikmac on 08/10/2007 01:51:02
what do you think is a better amp for the job ALPINE MRD-M1005 1000w or a ALPINE PDX1.600 MONO
Victor on 08/10/2007 03:59:32
if i remember, someone on CK had mentioned that PDX amps have some glitch....
the mrd 1005 is a tried and tested amp.. withstanding a lot of beating, sturdy and definitely performing...
but the current draw of this amp is a lot and also one SWR1242 sub can only handle around 500wrms or a tad more.. there is no way u shud be giving it a full 1000wrms , its suicide...
the amp and sub combo that swez noted are the best here for a decent budget... u will not regret buying these that is for sure..
Victor...
swez on 08/10/2007 07:03:09
That Kenwood KAC-8151D mentioned... this is a Class D Mono amp for subwoofer applications. Are you sure of the model # here as this is not designed for Mids/Highs.
This amp would be fine to run an Alpine SWR-1222D sub. (500 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads)
Swez
PS It was Kittle that stated he had seen a number of field failures on the newer PDX series amps. Am not sure if this is common to all PDX series amps or that this was a localized issue. (A few bad production lots got out of the factory)
magikmac on 08/10/2007 13:22:05
Ya sorry I wrote the wrong one I was looking at that model and wrote it by accident I have a KAC-6402 , Compared to the alpine MRD-M650 would a newer Alpine MRP-M650 , or a Pioneer Premier PRS-D1100M , Audiobahn A8001DT?
swez on 08/10/2007 15:57:20
Actually, that Kenwood sub amp, (KAC-8151D) would be a very nice match with the Alpine SWR 1222D sub and mate well with your KAC-6402 amp as well.
The Alpine amps noted are both solid. (Not sure about the PDX)
Pioneer: This must be off... 40 x 2 amp fuses
4 ohms: 400 watts x 1 chan.
2 ohms: 600 watts x 1 chan.
1 ohm: 600 watts x 1 chan.
Something does not line up well here. Most Class D amps at this power range are often fused much lower. If 80A's @ 600 Wrms, this amp is horrible at efficiency conversions.
Bahn: Nope! Too many field failures from Bahn.
Swez
magikmac on 08/10/2007 15:59:51
Is there a big difference between the MRP and the MRD
swez on 08/10/2007 16:20:55
I believe the MRD was the older series Alpine made a few years back. The MRP is the newer model and may have a few new features in the power supply to make it more reliable and efficient.
Swez
magikmac on 08/10/2007 23:44:46
Thanks for all the info I purchased a SWR-1242 and the MRP-M650.
swez on 08/11/2007 00:01:27
Great, think you'll be very happy with the combo. CLAP
Mind making a donation to CK? This is a user funded site and we are slow during the summer months. You can donate by PayPal, personal check or money order. (Am not twisting your arm here, just mentioning that we are here to serve and donations keep the site bills paid)
Can you help out? (No need to break the bank either)
Thanks and good luck on your install,
Swez
magikmac on 08/11/2007 00:03:03
Give me about two weeks so that I can recover from all my install and purchase costs and I will certainly get back to you ! No PROBLEM !
swez on 08/11/2007 00:30:54
Wunnaful, we appreciate that attitude and yes, in your own time is fine.
Donors get a Gold Star by their names and also honerable mention in our site contributor list too. It's our way of showing appreciation for such contributions.
BTW, pass the word to your friends. CK is very newbie friendly and it's great to have the extra traffic. Why? Others are also reading the posts and learning. (Look at the views for this post now.... 111 views already)
Others often lurk for months and learn a lot by observing, even when they don't post. Come on Lurker's... say hello and ask your questions. We don't bite that hard at all. SMILE
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 08/11/2007 02:23:37
when i first came her i didnt know much about car adio and what i did know was basically wrong but ive learned alot from here i reccomend this site to all of my friends everyone helps out and its not always the newbies that ask all the questions which goes to show everyone needs help sometimes
swez on 08/11/2007 10:51:48
Quote: "everyone needs help sometimes"
So true kirch, and that's why this boat floats so well with many who come for the fun and learn something along the way.
One thing I've noticed as a Moderator and teacher here, we sometimes have to dig deeper for the best possible solutions and technical details for our readers. Teaching and leadership are demanding roles, (but worth the effort) to take on. We have to do a lot of homework, employ creative communication skills and analogies to explain technical details to a non-technical audience.
There is a lot of "bad science" in this field. (Car Audio) Meaning, a poor understanding of how things really work, improper install techniques, deceptive marketing by some Mfg's and lots of bad information that is often taken as gospel by well-meaning psudo-techs and their minions. (Myth Busting is very common here)
In many ways, several Golds here have become very credible resources and specialists in a given area. (Fiberglassing techniques, advanced enclosure designs, electrical upgrades and complex system integration needs) That's what makes this site so unique. CK has a wide base of knowledge and some very talented members to help others learns and grow.
Personally, it's been a great experience to watch this site grow in readership, but better still, the diversity of skills and collaboration on a wide range of topics is remarkable too. If one could look back at how CK started and track the progression and expansion of talent and technical tools that are now available here, that would be an interesting history lesson.
Cheers,
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 00:32:53
Now that I have the Sub and Amp I'm looking to see what kind of wires im going to need so that I can purchase them on eBay or something to save some cash. It says tat the amp recommends 8 gauge but apart from that what kind of name brand if any should i be looking for?
swez on 08/13/2007 01:22:46
Think it best to use #4 wire as your main feed line. Adding your 4 channel amp will put you right in the pocket for power and minimal voltage drops that are common in #8 line.
Here, we often recommend using an 80A fuse, #4 main wire and a Distribution block that accepts #4 on the input side and a pair of #8 lines on the output side.
As for wire and hardware sources, consider Knukonceptz, Streetwires or Stinger. I have used KKZ on several larger installs and was well satisfied with the price, quality and shipping times. They have budget and highend wire offerings. Have a look:
http://www.knukonceptz.com
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 01:26:15
what is the difference between a 30A fuse (recommended from alpine) and a 80A
magikmac on 08/13/2007 01:26:44
30A X 2
magikmac on 08/13/2007 01:32:30
Would something like this do the trick ?http://cgi.ebay.ca/STINGER-HPM-8-GA-CAR-AUDIO-AMP-KIT-W-RCA-600W-SWKH8RS_W0QQitemZ140145262726QQihZ004QQcategoryZ71529QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
swez on 08/13/2007 08:49:44
If you are only planning to power the Alpine sub amp off this wire kit, it's a very good deal and everything you'll need is in this kit.
However, if you need to power both the Alpine and Kenwood 4 channel mentioned, it would be better to use a #4 power line, D-block and such as mentioned earlier.
If you have already run a power line for the 4 channel and want both amps to have their own power lines, this is acceptable too. Here, you'll have 2 main power line circuits, one for each amp.
As far aas fuse selections go, we fuse the wire based on wire gage size. The wire gage size determines the "safe" current carry value of a given gage line.
#8 is rated at about 40-50A's (Max current carry)
#4 is rated between 80-100A's. (MAx current)
It would be dangerous to use a #8 line and fuse it at 80A's. As current flow increases, the wire starts to heat up and the insulating jacket can melt, deform or burn through. It is not designed to carry more than 50A's. Going above that current level is inviting disaster.
Got all that?
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 11:22:17
I'm having the kenwood put into a friends car only because hes paying me beaucoup bucks for it haha so it would only be the alpine in there
swez on 08/13/2007 11:56:32
Nice deal... "are you even thinking" about adding a full range amp for Mid/Highs later? If the answer is yes, probably later or maybe, but unsure when, use a #4 gage wire kit. (Highly recommended)
If you love a lot of bass and don't mind the Mid/Highs buried by bass, use a #8 kit. HU amps for Mid/High only will not keep up with the bass this system will generate.
THINK ahead, plan for upgrades now or plan on doing the job over again at a later time.
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 11:57:52
haha you are the voice of reason it seems
swez on 08/13/2007 18:50:32
Many would agree. SMILE
That's what happens when one gets well past their 40's... "we've made similar errs and try to let the secrets out w/o tipping our hands."
Just trying my best to help ya get it right both now and later.
Swez
SQLThump on 08/13/2007 22:47:56
Swez??? Voice of reason????? Sounds about right LOL.
Replies (36)
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 19:10:23
1000 rms will definitely overpower a stock electrical system especially in you car.
big 3 upgrade and a higher cca rated battery will definitely be needed (optima yellow top or others) and probably a H.O. Alternator will be needed to supply the current draw
the SWR subs are great subs and hold up well over time if treated well
as far as the enclosure what kind of music do you listen to??? sealed will give better cleaner and punchier bass but will lack in some of the lower bass notes while a ported box will provide better spl and lower bass notes
magikmac on 08/9/2007 19:22:52
I was thinking that I will purchase a capacitor but what does this help with and will this avoid buying other things? How big should the capacitor be?
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 20:00:04
capacitors will only make it worse they are a waste of money
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g5316
swez or anyone else wanna comment on this????
magikmac on 08/9/2007 20:03:25
K thanks for that read it makes sense
magikmac on 08/9/2007 20:38:57
Would I be able to buy a smaller version of that battery just to run the subs off of it ? would this be easy for any pro car installer to do without giving me a fuss ?
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 20:54:35
umm im not sure im still kind of new to this as well if one of the golds or other members are payin attention to this they can help you out with that more
i believe you can have another battery dedicated to just the amp hooked up using a battery isolator which shouldnt be too dificult but im really not sure
magikmac on 08/9/2007 20:58:19
ok great thanks alot you've been a great help
kirchatndftbl on 08/9/2007 21:13:15
no problem ive had alot of help from everyone on here myself and im just tryin to return the favor
swez on 08/9/2007 21:35:05
If you want that much bass, there is a hidden cost that can eat your wallet alive. (Electrical upgrades)
Caps = Wasting $$
A very solid Combo for bass:
1. Alpine SWR-1242D (Sealed or Ported)
2. Alpine MRD-M650 amp (Very good match)
Future considerations... "Dang, I have strong bass now, but the Mid/Highs cannot keep up. What next?"
Comments?
Swez
magikmac on 08/9/2007 21:39:56
Well currently i have a Kenwood KAC-8151D powering a set of 6 inch Infinity Refference 6002i and MTX 6x9 thunderdomes with some small 4 inch panasonics in the front
magikmac on 08/9/2007 21:53:29
Will I need all those upgrades if i'm only going to have one sub instead of two ?
kirchatndftbl on 08/10/2007 01:22:23
one sub shouldnt put too much strain on thew stock electrical system the big 3 upgrade should help out quite a bit and is pretty cheap compared to other options
magikmac on 08/10/2007 01:51:02
what do you think is a better amp for the job ALPINE MRD-M1005 1000w or a ALPINE PDX1.600 MONO
Victor on 08/10/2007 03:59:32
if i remember, someone on CK had mentioned that PDX amps have some glitch....
the mrd 1005 is a tried and tested amp.. withstanding a lot of beating, sturdy and definitely performing...
but the current draw of this amp is a lot and also one SWR1242 sub can only handle around 500wrms or a tad more.. there is no way u shud be giving it a full 1000wrms , its suicide...
the amp and sub combo that swez noted are the best here for a decent budget... u will not regret buying these that is for sure..
Victor...
swez on 08/10/2007 07:03:09
That Kenwood KAC-8151D mentioned... this is a Class D Mono amp for subwoofer applications. Are you sure of the model # here as this is not designed for Mids/Highs.
This amp would be fine to run an Alpine SWR-1222D sub. (500 Wrms @ 1 ohm loads)
Swez
PS It was Kittle that stated he had seen a number of field failures on the newer PDX series amps. Am not sure if this is common to all PDX series amps or that this was a localized issue. (A few bad production lots got out of the factory)
magikmac on 08/10/2007 13:22:05
Ya sorry I wrote the wrong one I was looking at that model and wrote it by accident I have a KAC-6402 , Compared to the alpine MRD-M650 would a newer Alpine MRP-M650 , or a Pioneer Premier PRS-D1100M , Audiobahn A8001DT?
swez on 08/10/2007 15:57:20
Actually, that Kenwood sub amp, (KAC-8151D) would be a very nice match with the Alpine SWR 1222D sub and mate well with your KAC-6402 amp as well.
The Alpine amps noted are both solid. (Not sure about the PDX)
Pioneer: This must be off... 40 x 2 amp fuses
4 ohms: 400 watts x 1 chan.
2 ohms: 600 watts x 1 chan.
1 ohm: 600 watts x 1 chan.
Something does not line up well here. Most Class D amps at this power range are often fused much lower. If 80A's @ 600 Wrms, this amp is horrible at efficiency conversions.
Bahn: Nope! Too many field failures from Bahn.
Swez
magikmac on 08/10/2007 15:59:51
Is there a big difference between the MRP and the MRD
swez on 08/10/2007 16:20:55
I believe the MRD was the older series Alpine made a few years back. The MRP is the newer model and may have a few new features in the power supply to make it more reliable and efficient.
Swez
magikmac on 08/10/2007 23:44:46
Thanks for all the info I purchased a SWR-1242 and the MRP-M650.
swez on 08/11/2007 00:01:27
Great, think you'll be very happy with the combo. CLAP
Mind making a donation to CK? This is a user funded site and we are slow during the summer months. You can donate by PayPal, personal check or money order. (Am not twisting your arm here, just mentioning that we are here to serve and donations keep the site bills paid)
Can you help out? (No need to break the bank either)
Thanks and good luck on your install,
Swez
magikmac on 08/11/2007 00:03:03
Give me about two weeks so that I can recover from all my install and purchase costs and I will certainly get back to you ! No PROBLEM !
swez on 08/11/2007 00:30:54
Wunnaful, we appreciate that attitude and yes, in your own time is fine.
Donors get a Gold Star by their names and also honerable mention in our site contributor list too. It's our way of showing appreciation for such contributions.
BTW, pass the word to your friends. CK is very newbie friendly and it's great to have the extra traffic. Why? Others are also reading the posts and learning. (Look at the views for this post now.... 111 views already)
Others often lurk for months and learn a lot by observing, even when they don't post. Come on Lurker's... say hello and ask your questions. We don't bite that hard at all. SMILE
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 08/11/2007 02:23:37
when i first came her i didnt know much about car adio and what i did know was basically wrong but ive learned alot from here i reccomend this site to all of my friends everyone helps out and its not always the newbies that ask all the questions which goes to show everyone needs help sometimes
swez on 08/11/2007 10:51:48
Quote: "everyone needs help sometimes"
So true kirch, and that's why this boat floats so well with many who come for the fun and learn something along the way.
One thing I've noticed as a Moderator and teacher here, we sometimes have to dig deeper for the best possible solutions and technical details for our readers. Teaching and leadership are demanding roles, (but worth the effort) to take on. We have to do a lot of homework, employ creative communication skills and analogies to explain technical details to a non-technical audience.
There is a lot of "bad science" in this field. (Car Audio) Meaning, a poor understanding of how things really work, improper install techniques, deceptive marketing by some Mfg's and lots of bad information that is often taken as gospel by well-meaning psudo-techs and their minions. (Myth Busting is very common here)
In many ways, several Golds here have become very credible resources and specialists in a given area. (Fiberglassing techniques, advanced enclosure designs, electrical upgrades and complex system integration needs) That's what makes this site so unique. CK has a wide base of knowledge and some very talented members to help others learns and grow.
Personally, it's been a great experience to watch this site grow in readership, but better still, the diversity of skills and collaboration on a wide range of topics is remarkable too. If one could look back at how CK started and track the progression and expansion of talent and technical tools that are now available here, that would be an interesting history lesson.
Cheers,
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 00:32:53
Now that I have the Sub and Amp I'm looking to see what kind of wires im going to need so that I can purchase them on eBay or something to save some cash. It says tat the amp recommends 8 gauge but apart from that what kind of name brand if any should i be looking for?
swez on 08/13/2007 01:22:46
Think it best to use #4 wire as your main feed line. Adding your 4 channel amp will put you right in the pocket for power and minimal voltage drops that are common in #8 line.
Here, we often recommend using an 80A fuse, #4 main wire and a Distribution block that accepts #4 on the input side and a pair of #8 lines on the output side.
As for wire and hardware sources, consider Knukonceptz, Streetwires or Stinger. I have used KKZ on several larger installs and was well satisfied with the price, quality and shipping times. They have budget and highend wire offerings. Have a look:
http://www.knukonceptz.com
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 01:26:15
what is the difference between a 30A fuse (recommended from alpine) and a 80A
magikmac on 08/13/2007 01:26:44
30A X 2
magikmac on 08/13/2007 01:32:30
Would something like this do the trick ?http://cgi.ebay.ca/STINGER-HPM-8-GA-CAR-AUDIO-AMP-KIT-W-RCA-600W-SWKH8RS_W0QQitemZ140145262726QQihZ004QQcategoryZ71529QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
swez on 08/13/2007 08:49:44
If you are only planning to power the Alpine sub amp off this wire kit, it's a very good deal and everything you'll need is in this kit.
However, if you need to power both the Alpine and Kenwood 4 channel mentioned, it would be better to use a #4 power line, D-block and such as mentioned earlier.
If you have already run a power line for the 4 channel and want both amps to have their own power lines, this is acceptable too. Here, you'll have 2 main power line circuits, one for each amp.
As far aas fuse selections go, we fuse the wire based on wire gage size. The wire gage size determines the "safe" current carry value of a given gage line.
#8 is rated at about 40-50A's (Max current carry)
#4 is rated between 80-100A's. (MAx current)
It would be dangerous to use a #8 line and fuse it at 80A's. As current flow increases, the wire starts to heat up and the insulating jacket can melt, deform or burn through. It is not designed to carry more than 50A's. Going above that current level is inviting disaster.
Got all that?
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 11:22:17
I'm having the kenwood put into a friends car only because hes paying me beaucoup bucks for it haha so it would only be the alpine in there
swez on 08/13/2007 11:56:32
Nice deal... "are you even thinking" about adding a full range amp for Mid/Highs later? If the answer is yes, probably later or maybe, but unsure when, use a #4 gage wire kit. (Highly recommended)
If you love a lot of bass and don't mind the Mid/Highs buried by bass, use a #8 kit. HU amps for Mid/High only will not keep up with the bass this system will generate.
THINK ahead, plan for upgrades now or plan on doing the job over again at a later time.
Swez
magikmac on 08/13/2007 11:57:52
haha you are the voice of reason it seems
swez on 08/13/2007 18:50:32
Many would agree. SMILE
That's what happens when one gets well past their 40's... "we've made similar errs and try to let the secrets out w/o tipping our hands."
Just trying my best to help ya get it right both now and later.
Swez
SQLThump on 08/13/2007 22:47:56
Swez??? Voice of reason????? Sounds about right LOL.
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