Heyy guys, new to the forums here and have been looking around the topics and whatnot. Currently looking to redo the current system in my car. Heres what I have in there currently:
Head-Unit: Sony CDX-GT300
Front & Rear Speakers: Sony Xplod 4-Way (6x9 & 6 1/4)
Subs: 2 - 10" Alpine Type R
Amp: Kole Audio 2000W
Not the best in the world, but was what I had the money for at the time. Im looking to upgrade to a better system overal and have better sound quality and so on. Looking into an Alpine Head Unit. Other than that im not quite sure where to start. Any and all help is appreciated.
Thanks, Ryan
Replies (30)
swez on 07/31/2007 19:37:51
Welcome to CK... glad you took a look at some posts. Try reading some FAQ's and DIY posts that may apply too.
What is your biggest issue at hand? (Lacking mid/highs power to keep up with the subs?) That can be fixed by amping them, (Front/rear speakers) and perhaps adding either a 4 channel and/or expand the HU features w/ an outboard EQ/Line Driver/Mixer. This is a decent HU and with a few minor addons, it could be a very usable too.
Do you have the model # of the Kole amp and which Type R subs are used? (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's)
Swez
baalz159 on 07/31/2007 20:10:19
The model on the amp is XP2-2000. The subs are 2+2. The problem I am having is the mids and highs are not keeping up with the power of the subs. Also, ive heard that sony is not the best thing in the world, if this is true, i was looking to get something like the Alpine Type R speakers to replace the current ones.
Ryan
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 20:33:06
Definitely seems like a good amp, but the sub pairing isn't quite correct. Regardless of whether mono or stereo is used, the 4+4 coils would do the job a little better.
How are your voice colis wired to the amp, (series, parrellal), and are you using the amp in bridged or stereo mode?
Alpine speakers are decent, but for the money you would fork over on some Type-R's you could probably find a better option.
swez on 07/31/2007 20:34:50
See a mismatch on the subs and that amp bud. This amp is rated at 900 watts RMS when bridged MONO to a 4 ohm load. In this case, the best you can do, is 4 ohms per channel, (No bridging) and about 350 watts RMS/sub. (Not bad, but power is left on the table) Workable, but not optimal for your subs, and too strong for Mid/Highs as well.
Sony speakers are not all that great to be sure. Sony makes decent HU's and amps, but their speakers and subs are well below par. The Alpine R series is not a bad speaker, but there are better out there too. (More bang for the buck)
Here, I would suggest getting a budget together for what you will replace in the future. For best results, consider 2 ohm Components for the front doors and Coaxials for the rear. Depending on your budget, we can look at several options.
Some quality brands to consider:
Alpine
Polk
JBL
Infinity
CDT
To keep up with your subs, a solid 4 channel amp would be a very good option. (50 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms would be the minimum) The HU you have now, delivers about 20 Wrms/speaker.
Which Sony speaker models are you using now and what kind of vehicle is this?
Swez
Fusion
baalz159 on 07/31/2007 21:09:00
Just to let you all know, this was my first time working with car audio in any way. Im still new to most of this, but for the most part I can figure out how to do things. First things first, swez, what should I do to moke the subs go from 2 ohm to 4 ohm. As far as the speakers go, the models are as follow:
6 1/2" XS-V1642A
6x9" XS-V6942A
The car I have is a 2000 Mitsubishi Galant
Ryan
swez on 07/31/2007 22:11:54
The subs you have now are fine, but not well matched to this amp. Here, a Class D MONO amp that is stable at 2 ohms would be the best choice. The best way you can run this amp and sub combo now, is 1 sub per channel and each sub is 4 ohms. (both coils in series) Not bad for now, but again, just not optimal.
Those Sony speakers are.... errr, uhmmm, doh... well below good. (Dare I say... Crap) They may get loud with more power, but the quality of sound will not get better, just louder. Sorry, but let's be men and call it like it is. Cheap crossovers and too many elements jammed into a package like this always nets poor results.
Nice ride here Ryan. You can do this ride nice in time and some timely tips from our team. The Subs and amp are fine for now. The HU is very usable with an EQ/Line Driver/Mixer.
The present speakers are your weakest link and a decent amp to power some better ones will take you to a totally new level as well. If using 2 ohm speakers in front and back, a modest 4 channel amp will really get them up to snuff.
If you want to do this in stages, that's a good option. Just need a good plan of attack, some careful purchases and the speakers should be a piece of cake to install. Japanese cars are so easy to work on.
Swez
PS Do you have an open space in the dash for a 1/2 din signal processor? Most factory HU's in Japanese cars are either 1.5 -2.0 din size openings. (Yes, this is a 2" tall opening) Should be enough space to add a processor in the dash here.
baalz159 on 08/1/2007 16:00:05
The way you said to run the subs and amp is how it is set up now. I knew the speakers were bad, at the time I bought them i hadn't done any research on Sony itself or speakers in general..
As far as new speakers and the amp, I am clueless on how to run them, and what brands to be looking at. At this time, money isn't really a issue( within reason).
Now, is it best for me to do these upgrades in stages, or is all at once a better option? When I installed what is currently in my car, I figured out how to disassemble and assemble the various things needed to get to everything, and you are very right about how easy it is to work on my car.
Ryan
swez on 08/1/2007 18:21:24
Good... we are tracking well here Ryan and I am glad you have some experience with this car already. They are pretty easy to work on as compared to say GM products. (So what esle is new?)
If it were me, I'd be researching speakers and a 4 channel amp to drive them. That HU has adequate features for now, but if you wanted more flexibilty later, we can look at an addon processor to give you much better sound shaping and stage control over what you have now.
As for the subs and amp, stick with it a while longer. It works and the net affects of upgrading that Kole amp now, are not high on the priority list. (If it works, don't fix it... OR... If it's not broke, you're not trying hard enough) SMILE
Tell me, what gage power line did you use on this Kole amp? (#4?)
Speakers:
Have been installing and recommending 2 ohm Infinity Comps for some time now. Have done Polks, JBL and CDT offerings too. But to get the most bang for the buck, I really like these:
Front Speakers:
Infinity Reference 6020cs (Retail is $199.00/pr.)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9319_Infinity+Reference+6020CS.html ($120.00 here)
Rear Speakers: Infinity Kappa 692.7i
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5024_Infinity+Kappa+692.7i.html
If you like the Kole Audio amp now and want a companion amp, these are good options:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7027_Hitron+HNA-435.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7357_--+-20+PRICE+BREAK--+--+Kole+Audio+KX4-600.html
If you want to move up in amp quality, we can look at other options with the same power ratings. (Alpine, Kenwood, JBL, Infinity, Kicker and many others too)
Have a look around the links and tell me your thoughts,
Swez
baalz159 on 08/1/2007 18:51:09
For the amp I ran a 0 gauge wire. Reason being the person I bought the amp from on ebay gave away the wiring kit, and it happened to be 0 gauge.
As far as the speakers go, went and looked around for prices on them. One question, what are your thoughts on ebay? All of the components in my car, except the head unit( crutch field ) I got off there. Anyway, the best price on there:
Front: $85.75 + $17.00(shipping) = $102.75
Rear: $67.00 + $19.75(shipping) = $86.75
As far as the amps go, is there really a great difference between the two? I see the Hitron puts out 85 watts RMS at 4 OHMS x 4 channels, whereas the Kole Audio puts of 70 watts RMS at 4 OHMS x 4 channels. Not sure if its a big deal or not, just thought i'd ask. As far as moving up in quality, that was more of my intention, going from a lower quality to a higher. Either way it doesn't matter to me. If the units are basicly the same, are you not just paying for the name or is there really a difference between them?
Looked at an Audiobahn A6004V. Is that a decent one???
Ryan
kirchatndftbl on 08/2/2007 00:39:05
audiobahn has had some pretty bad reviews and some failures lately and isnt that great of quality id definitely look for somethin else
swez on 08/2/2007 02:08:42
E-bay is a good option if the seller has a high rating and using PayPal too. Some online stores also use e-bay to move more products at lower margins, but we often lose the warrantee aspects. (In most cases, a solid warrantee is worth a few extra bucks for the added piece of mind)
Frankly, if you want a solid brand name amp and pay a fair price, Kenwood products seem to be some of the best values online these days. Power wise, since we are looking at 2 ohm speakers, a power rating of 85 Wrms x 4 channels @ 2 ohms is plenty good.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4346_Kenwood+KAC-8402.html
Wire gage is perfect. Do you have a Distribtion block now? If yes, which one? If not, you'll need one when adding the 4 channel amp.
Bahn amp? Sorry, as Kirch mentioned, Bahn has had a lot of quality problems of late and their prices don't stack up well against others in a similar class. Their Intake Series is one of the newer ones, (Seems a bit more reliable too) but I'm just not big on Bahn of late. We've seen too many field failures and repair time is often long too.
Also, this amp is a tad strong for your speakers and we have to watch current draw as well. It's usable in the right hands. In the wrong hands, it'll probably damage your speakers. (too much power & current draw)
Swez
PS Possible sub amp to consider later...
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8515_Kenwood+KAC-9103D.html
compvr15s on 08/2/2007 02:51:56
ebay is great for buying things but something that carries a factory warranty is usually not the best to buy off ebay because u void that warranty and if your product goes bad, your kind of stuck.... some companies dont care where you buy their product and will honor the warranty but as far as i know none of the big name companies do....
as for the 5 watts difference in the 4 channel amps that is something that u will never be able to notice, but those are just posted numbers, most manufactures over rate thier product to "woo" the customers.... if you look at an amp that says 100 watts rms x4 @ 4ohms compared to an amp that lists 50watts rms x4 @ 4ohms, the nieve one one chose the higher rated almost always..... a good way to compare amps is to take a known company that does not over rate thier amp and look at the fuses.... just take the number listed on the fuse and multiply that by 12, that will give you a rough estimate of how much power the amp will put out....
i havent heard much about audiobahn recently but if they are anything like the old they are not very great at all, more cosmetic power than useful power.....
swez on 08/3/2007 01:17:09
Amp ratings are not standardized for this industry like they are in Pro gear lines. One has to be mindful that some amp makers often under-rate power specs as a guaranteed minimal power rating. Rockford does this and so do other top brands. They say: 100 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms. (But when you get the birth sheet, the actual tested numbers are often higher... 127 x 4 RMS @ 4 ohms) This tells us we are getting a solid product and often pay more too. (But worth every dime)
Another ploy that some low value amp makers use, 2400 Watts Peak Power! What the Sam Hill does that mean? If the amp has 2 x 15 amp fuses, it means the amp maker is really playing a numbers game. This gives the naive buyer a sence that he is getting something very strong, but he is not. That happens a lot on e-bay and other cheap outlet brands.
We know these factors and steer our readers to products that:
1. Exceed rated performance as advertized
2. Meets rated performance as advertized
We avoid the 3rd category.... Falls well short of rated performance.
At CK, we consider power draw, (Fuse ratings), mean voltage supply to amp, amplifier class efficiencies and load range versatility as criteria for matching speaker and amps. We only look at RMS or Continous Power wattage numbers. (Not Peak watts or worse yet, Peak to Peak Watts which are absolute garbage numbers)
If you want to know more, just ask and we'll explain in detail.
Swez
baalz159 on 08/4/2007 16:26:16
Okk, so far this has all been a big help. Heres what I plan on doing.
1. Buy new speakers to replace the crap sony ones.
2. Buy new amp to power new speakers - Not sure which one yett.
3. Possibly look into buying new amp for subs now - not positive yett, want to buy all the essentials before that.
Hows this sound? Any objections???
Ryan
Victor on 08/4/2007 16:43:28
Great... you got any budget in mind for these upgrades...???
baalz159 on 08/4/2007 18:47:54
My budget as of now, is around say $500-600. Could go a little more but I would like to stay in that range.
Victor on 08/4/2007 19:31:15
do u meanu want 2 sets of speakers, a decent 4 ch amp and a monoblock all in $600...
well.. you can get a decent choice in this budget, nothing too great but definitely sturdy and performing....
swez on 08/4/2007 21:34:09
Concentrate on the speakers and a decent 4 channel amp for now. If you wish to add am EQ/LD/Processor too, now is the time to plan for that as well.
As for the sub amp, you're OK for now and no immediate action is needed until you find a home for that amp. (Kole 2 channel) It's usable as is and if you have a buddy who needs a strong 2 channel or bridged sub amp, make sure they have a solid 4 ohm sub system for best results. (A pair 4+4 DVC's 400-500 Wrms/sub)
Swez
Ash on 08/5/2007 11:50:53
I've been following this thread for a lil while and IMO, if he has 600 smackers, then the rest won't be hard to attain at all.
One thing not to forget is that there is a plethora of brands that most never tried, heard of, or give credit to. I was looking through Sonicelectronix site and found tried & trued products within that budget.
For one: Blaupunkt mids & highs are great performers (far better than Sony) with an amp; are inexpensive and usually on sale too. Hifonics makes solid multichannel amps that are pretty flexible and inexpensive as well. With those subs, the time tested Kenwood KAC 9103 D is right in the ball park for a bass package and a little under $200. If you talk to customer service, they might be able to discount shipping for you for spending that much at one time.
Plus selling off that amp will net you some good change back in your pocket. If you decide to use it, it still won't be that bad. 350 puts you 100 watts over half of the rms per sub and will do ok.
swez on 08/5/2007 16:45:27
Right, am looking at performance and keep the budget flexible enough for minor electrical upgrades too.
One thing I have found great use for, are the Infinity/JBL 2 ohm speakers. A smaller amp (75-100 watts @ 2 ohms) will generate the power and these speakers not only sound great, but are very efficient too. Basically, spend a bit more for the speakers and save power and $$ on the amp side of the equation.
Do you agree w/ that strategy Ash? (See value in it..)
Swez
baalz159 on 08/5/2007 20:08:53
Okk all, i'm planning on buying the speakers and amp fairly soon. I know what speakers i'm going to be buying. The ones that Swez origanally suggested, Infinity.
As far as the amp to power them, im still a little off on. Not sure at what power range is best for the speakers i'm getting. You (swez) suggested a Kenwood KAC 8402, which in my eyes looks like a decent amp. Any others I should be considering?
Ryan
swez on 08/5/2007 22:18:42
Any good brand you like that can deliver 75-100 watts RMS x 4 @ 2 ohms will do the job well:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8438_JBL+CS60.4.html
(JBL 75 x 4 @ 2 ohms)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7021_PowerBass+ASA+400.4.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6518_Hifonics+ZXi+3406.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6553_Hifonics+Titan+TXi+4406.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7167_Hifonics+ZXi+4406.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9035_MTX+Audio+XThunder+504X.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9712_Infinity+475a.html
Any of these will do you well. BTW, there is not a big difference in audio SPL between 75 & 110 watts RMS. However, power consumption is another issue. That's one thing to keep track of... power consumption is a big factor as we move up in power ratings per channel.
Swez
jamesp on 08/6/2007 08:02:54
Dont forget to check the Ebay store that SonicElectronix has. Many times the item in the store is considerably less expensive than thier online store.
The only drawback of thier Ebay store is that you cannot search the data base by mfg. If you are looking for amps you have to scroll thru several pages.
I did find that they still had the Rockford Fosgate 600bd for well under $200.00 (<> 170.00) at the ebay store. Its a lot more(<> 299.00) at the regular on line store...just an example
Ash on 08/6/2007 08:59:41
Yes that is a good strategy. A little pricey, but potently effective..
Personally I like the Hifonics amps for their value.
Victor on 08/6/2007 10:27:31
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6534_Alpine+MRP-F450.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9319_Infinity+Reference+6020CS.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8515_Kenwood+KAC-9103D.html
Victor on 08/6/2007 10:28:45
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6534_Alpine+MRP-F450.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9319_Infinity+Reference+6020CS.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8515_Kenwood+KAC-9103D.html
all for a total of $ 537/- on its website... try looking for these on ebay or other stores..
Victor..
baalz159 on 08/6/2007 15:53:14
This is what i've got so far. I found everything i need on ebay, and here are the prices.
Kenwood KAC-9103D - 130+25 = 155
Infinity Reference 6020CS - 86+17 = 103
INFINITY KAPPA 692.7i - 67+20 = 87
Infinity 475a - 147+25 = 172
Total: $517
swez on 08/6/2007 20:43:20
Very good listing and prices too. Have you settled on the using that Clarion EQ/LD/Mixer too?
Swez
montego_27 on 08/7/2007 11:57:51
Hey Swez,
Don't forget about the Audiobahn AEQ-7 EQ/ LD . Best bang for the buck out there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audiobahn-AEQ-7-Equalizer-Crossover-Line-Driver-preamp_W0QQitemZ330153017613QQihZ014QQcategoryZ14931QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
swez on 08/7/2007 14:24:50
Yep, we started there Tego and moved to something a tad different.
How ya been man?
Swez
Head-Unit: Sony CDX-GT300
Front & Rear Speakers: Sony Xplod 4-Way (6x9 & 6 1/4)
Subs: 2 - 10" Alpine Type R
Amp: Kole Audio 2000W
Not the best in the world, but was what I had the money for at the time. Im looking to upgrade to a better system overal and have better sound quality and so on. Looking into an Alpine Head Unit. Other than that im not quite sure where to start. Any and all help is appreciated.
Thanks, Ryan
Replies (30)
swez on 07/31/2007 19:37:51
Welcome to CK... glad you took a look at some posts. Try reading some FAQ's and DIY posts that may apply too.
What is your biggest issue at hand? (Lacking mid/highs power to keep up with the subs?) That can be fixed by amping them, (Front/rear speakers) and perhaps adding either a 4 channel and/or expand the HU features w/ an outboard EQ/Line Driver/Mixer. This is a decent HU and with a few minor addons, it could be a very usable too.
Do you have the model # of the Kole amp and which Type R subs are used? (2+2 or 4+4 DVC's)
Swez
baalz159 on 07/31/2007 20:10:19
The model on the amp is XP2-2000. The subs are 2+2. The problem I am having is the mids and highs are not keeping up with the power of the subs. Also, ive heard that sony is not the best thing in the world, if this is true, i was looking to get something like the Alpine Type R speakers to replace the current ones.
Ryan
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 20:33:06
Definitely seems like a good amp, but the sub pairing isn't quite correct. Regardless of whether mono or stereo is used, the 4+4 coils would do the job a little better.
How are your voice colis wired to the amp, (series, parrellal), and are you using the amp in bridged or stereo mode?
Alpine speakers are decent, but for the money you would fork over on some Type-R's you could probably find a better option.
swez on 07/31/2007 20:34:50
See a mismatch on the subs and that amp bud. This amp is rated at 900 watts RMS when bridged MONO to a 4 ohm load. In this case, the best you can do, is 4 ohms per channel, (No bridging) and about 350 watts RMS/sub. (Not bad, but power is left on the table) Workable, but not optimal for your subs, and too strong for Mid/Highs as well.
Sony speakers are not all that great to be sure. Sony makes decent HU's and amps, but their speakers and subs are well below par. The Alpine R series is not a bad speaker, but there are better out there too. (More bang for the buck)
Here, I would suggest getting a budget together for what you will replace in the future. For best results, consider 2 ohm Components for the front doors and Coaxials for the rear. Depending on your budget, we can look at several options.
Some quality brands to consider:
Alpine
Polk
JBL
Infinity
CDT
To keep up with your subs, a solid 4 channel amp would be a very good option. (50 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms would be the minimum) The HU you have now, delivers about 20 Wrms/speaker.
Which Sony speaker models are you using now and what kind of vehicle is this?
Swez
Fusion
baalz159 on 07/31/2007 21:09:00
Just to let you all know, this was my first time working with car audio in any way. Im still new to most of this, but for the most part I can figure out how to do things. First things first, swez, what should I do to moke the subs go from 2 ohm to 4 ohm. As far as the speakers go, the models are as follow:
6 1/2" XS-V1642A
6x9" XS-V6942A
The car I have is a 2000 Mitsubishi Galant
Ryan
swez on 07/31/2007 22:11:54
The subs you have now are fine, but not well matched to this amp. Here, a Class D MONO amp that is stable at 2 ohms would be the best choice. The best way you can run this amp and sub combo now, is 1 sub per channel and each sub is 4 ohms. (both coils in series) Not bad for now, but again, just not optimal.
Those Sony speakers are.... errr, uhmmm, doh... well below good. (Dare I say... Crap) They may get loud with more power, but the quality of sound will not get better, just louder. Sorry, but let's be men and call it like it is. Cheap crossovers and too many elements jammed into a package like this always nets poor results.
Nice ride here Ryan. You can do this ride nice in time and some timely tips from our team. The Subs and amp are fine for now. The HU is very usable with an EQ/Line Driver/Mixer.
The present speakers are your weakest link and a decent amp to power some better ones will take you to a totally new level as well. If using 2 ohm speakers in front and back, a modest 4 channel amp will really get them up to snuff.
If you want to do this in stages, that's a good option. Just need a good plan of attack, some careful purchases and the speakers should be a piece of cake to install. Japanese cars are so easy to work on.
Swez
PS Do you have an open space in the dash for a 1/2 din signal processor? Most factory HU's in Japanese cars are either 1.5 -2.0 din size openings. (Yes, this is a 2" tall opening) Should be enough space to add a processor in the dash here.
baalz159 on 08/1/2007 16:00:05
The way you said to run the subs and amp is how it is set up now. I knew the speakers were bad, at the time I bought them i hadn't done any research on Sony itself or speakers in general..
As far as new speakers and the amp, I am clueless on how to run them, and what brands to be looking at. At this time, money isn't really a issue( within reason).
Now, is it best for me to do these upgrades in stages, or is all at once a better option? When I installed what is currently in my car, I figured out how to disassemble and assemble the various things needed to get to everything, and you are very right about how easy it is to work on my car.
Ryan
swez on 08/1/2007 18:21:24
Good... we are tracking well here Ryan and I am glad you have some experience with this car already. They are pretty easy to work on as compared to say GM products. (So what esle is new?)
If it were me, I'd be researching speakers and a 4 channel amp to drive them. That HU has adequate features for now, but if you wanted more flexibilty later, we can look at an addon processor to give you much better sound shaping and stage control over what you have now.
As for the subs and amp, stick with it a while longer. It works and the net affects of upgrading that Kole amp now, are not high on the priority list. (If it works, don't fix it... OR... If it's not broke, you're not trying hard enough) SMILE
Tell me, what gage power line did you use on this Kole amp? (#4?)
Speakers:
Have been installing and recommending 2 ohm Infinity Comps for some time now. Have done Polks, JBL and CDT offerings too. But to get the most bang for the buck, I really like these:
Front Speakers:
Infinity Reference 6020cs (Retail is $199.00/pr.)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9319_Infinity+Reference+6020CS.html ($120.00 here)
Rear Speakers: Infinity Kappa 692.7i
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_5024_Infinity+Kappa+692.7i.html
If you like the Kole Audio amp now and want a companion amp, these are good options:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7027_Hitron+HNA-435.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7357_--+-20+PRICE+BREAK--+--+Kole+Audio+KX4-600.html
If you want to move up in amp quality, we can look at other options with the same power ratings. (Alpine, Kenwood, JBL, Infinity, Kicker and many others too)
Have a look around the links and tell me your thoughts,
Swez
baalz159 on 08/1/2007 18:51:09
For the amp I ran a 0 gauge wire. Reason being the person I bought the amp from on ebay gave away the wiring kit, and it happened to be 0 gauge.
As far as the speakers go, went and looked around for prices on them. One question, what are your thoughts on ebay? All of the components in my car, except the head unit( crutch field ) I got off there. Anyway, the best price on there:
Front: $85.75 + $17.00(shipping) = $102.75
Rear: $67.00 + $19.75(shipping) = $86.75
As far as the amps go, is there really a great difference between the two? I see the Hitron puts out 85 watts RMS at 4 OHMS x 4 channels, whereas the Kole Audio puts of 70 watts RMS at 4 OHMS x 4 channels. Not sure if its a big deal or not, just thought i'd ask. As far as moving up in quality, that was more of my intention, going from a lower quality to a higher. Either way it doesn't matter to me. If the units are basicly the same, are you not just paying for the name or is there really a difference between them?
Looked at an Audiobahn A6004V. Is that a decent one???
Ryan
kirchatndftbl on 08/2/2007 00:39:05
audiobahn has had some pretty bad reviews and some failures lately and isnt that great of quality id definitely look for somethin else
swez on 08/2/2007 02:08:42
E-bay is a good option if the seller has a high rating and using PayPal too. Some online stores also use e-bay to move more products at lower margins, but we often lose the warrantee aspects. (In most cases, a solid warrantee is worth a few extra bucks for the added piece of mind)
Frankly, if you want a solid brand name amp and pay a fair price, Kenwood products seem to be some of the best values online these days. Power wise, since we are looking at 2 ohm speakers, a power rating of 85 Wrms x 4 channels @ 2 ohms is plenty good.
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4346_Kenwood+KAC-8402.html
Wire gage is perfect. Do you have a Distribtion block now? If yes, which one? If not, you'll need one when adding the 4 channel amp.
Bahn amp? Sorry, as Kirch mentioned, Bahn has had a lot of quality problems of late and their prices don't stack up well against others in a similar class. Their Intake Series is one of the newer ones, (Seems a bit more reliable too) but I'm just not big on Bahn of late. We've seen too many field failures and repair time is often long too.
Also, this amp is a tad strong for your speakers and we have to watch current draw as well. It's usable in the right hands. In the wrong hands, it'll probably damage your speakers. (too much power & current draw)
Swez
PS Possible sub amp to consider later...
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8515_Kenwood+KAC-9103D.html
compvr15s on 08/2/2007 02:51:56
ebay is great for buying things but something that carries a factory warranty is usually not the best to buy off ebay because u void that warranty and if your product goes bad, your kind of stuck.... some companies dont care where you buy their product and will honor the warranty but as far as i know none of the big name companies do....
as for the 5 watts difference in the 4 channel amps that is something that u will never be able to notice, but those are just posted numbers, most manufactures over rate thier product to "woo" the customers.... if you look at an amp that says 100 watts rms x4 @ 4ohms compared to an amp that lists 50watts rms x4 @ 4ohms, the nieve one one chose the higher rated almost always..... a good way to compare amps is to take a known company that does not over rate thier amp and look at the fuses.... just take the number listed on the fuse and multiply that by 12, that will give you a rough estimate of how much power the amp will put out....
i havent heard much about audiobahn recently but if they are anything like the old they are not very great at all, more cosmetic power than useful power.....
swez on 08/3/2007 01:17:09
Amp ratings are not standardized for this industry like they are in Pro gear lines. One has to be mindful that some amp makers often under-rate power specs as a guaranteed minimal power rating. Rockford does this and so do other top brands. They say: 100 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms. (But when you get the birth sheet, the actual tested numbers are often higher... 127 x 4 RMS @ 4 ohms) This tells us we are getting a solid product and often pay more too. (But worth every dime)
Another ploy that some low value amp makers use, 2400 Watts Peak Power! What the Sam Hill does that mean? If the amp has 2 x 15 amp fuses, it means the amp maker is really playing a numbers game. This gives the naive buyer a sence that he is getting something very strong, but he is not. That happens a lot on e-bay and other cheap outlet brands.
We know these factors and steer our readers to products that:
1. Exceed rated performance as advertized
2. Meets rated performance as advertized
We avoid the 3rd category.... Falls well short of rated performance.
At CK, we consider power draw, (Fuse ratings), mean voltage supply to amp, amplifier class efficiencies and load range versatility as criteria for matching speaker and amps. We only look at RMS or Continous Power wattage numbers. (Not Peak watts or worse yet, Peak to Peak Watts which are absolute garbage numbers)
If you want to know more, just ask and we'll explain in detail.
Swez
baalz159 on 08/4/2007 16:26:16
Okk, so far this has all been a big help. Heres what I plan on doing.
1. Buy new speakers to replace the crap sony ones.
2. Buy new amp to power new speakers - Not sure which one yett.
3. Possibly look into buying new amp for subs now - not positive yett, want to buy all the essentials before that.
Hows this sound? Any objections???
Ryan
Victor on 08/4/2007 16:43:28
Great... you got any budget in mind for these upgrades...???
baalz159 on 08/4/2007 18:47:54
My budget as of now, is around say $500-600. Could go a little more but I would like to stay in that range.
Victor on 08/4/2007 19:31:15
do u meanu want 2 sets of speakers, a decent 4 ch amp and a monoblock all in $600...
well.. you can get a decent choice in this budget, nothing too great but definitely sturdy and performing....
swez on 08/4/2007 21:34:09
Concentrate on the speakers and a decent 4 channel amp for now. If you wish to add am EQ/LD/Processor too, now is the time to plan for that as well.
As for the sub amp, you're OK for now and no immediate action is needed until you find a home for that amp. (Kole 2 channel) It's usable as is and if you have a buddy who needs a strong 2 channel or bridged sub amp, make sure they have a solid 4 ohm sub system for best results. (A pair 4+4 DVC's 400-500 Wrms/sub)
Swez
Ash on 08/5/2007 11:50:53
I've been following this thread for a lil while and IMO, if he has 600 smackers, then the rest won't be hard to attain at all.
One thing not to forget is that there is a plethora of brands that most never tried, heard of, or give credit to. I was looking through Sonicelectronix site and found tried & trued products within that budget.
For one: Blaupunkt mids & highs are great performers (far better than Sony) with an amp; are inexpensive and usually on sale too. Hifonics makes solid multichannel amps that are pretty flexible and inexpensive as well. With those subs, the time tested Kenwood KAC 9103 D is right in the ball park for a bass package and a little under $200. If you talk to customer service, they might be able to discount shipping for you for spending that much at one time.
Plus selling off that amp will net you some good change back in your pocket. If you decide to use it, it still won't be that bad. 350 puts you 100 watts over half of the rms per sub and will do ok.
swez on 08/5/2007 16:45:27
Right, am looking at performance and keep the budget flexible enough for minor electrical upgrades too.
One thing I have found great use for, are the Infinity/JBL 2 ohm speakers. A smaller amp (75-100 watts @ 2 ohms) will generate the power and these speakers not only sound great, but are very efficient too. Basically, spend a bit more for the speakers and save power and $$ on the amp side of the equation.
Do you agree w/ that strategy Ash? (See value in it..)
Swez
baalz159 on 08/5/2007 20:08:53
Okk all, i'm planning on buying the speakers and amp fairly soon. I know what speakers i'm going to be buying. The ones that Swez origanally suggested, Infinity.
As far as the amp to power them, im still a little off on. Not sure at what power range is best for the speakers i'm getting. You (swez) suggested a Kenwood KAC 8402, which in my eyes looks like a decent amp. Any others I should be considering?
Ryan
swez on 08/5/2007 22:18:42
Any good brand you like that can deliver 75-100 watts RMS x 4 @ 2 ohms will do the job well:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8438_JBL+CS60.4.html
(JBL 75 x 4 @ 2 ohms)
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7021_PowerBass+ASA+400.4.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6518_Hifonics+ZXi+3406.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6553_Hifonics+Titan+TXi+4406.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_7167_Hifonics+ZXi+4406.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9035_MTX+Audio+XThunder+504X.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9712_Infinity+475a.html
Any of these will do you well. BTW, there is not a big difference in audio SPL between 75 & 110 watts RMS. However, power consumption is another issue. That's one thing to keep track of... power consumption is a big factor as we move up in power ratings per channel.
Swez
jamesp on 08/6/2007 08:02:54
Dont forget to check the Ebay store that SonicElectronix has. Many times the item in the store is considerably less expensive than thier online store.
The only drawback of thier Ebay store is that you cannot search the data base by mfg. If you are looking for amps you have to scroll thru several pages.
I did find that they still had the Rockford Fosgate 600bd for well under $200.00 (<> 170.00) at the ebay store. Its a lot more(<> 299.00) at the regular on line store...just an example
Ash on 08/6/2007 08:59:41
Yes that is a good strategy. A little pricey, but potently effective..
Personally I like the Hifonics amps for their value.
Victor on 08/6/2007 10:27:31
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6534_Alpine+MRP-F450.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9319_Infinity+Reference+6020CS.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8515_Kenwood+KAC-9103D.html
Victor on 08/6/2007 10:28:45
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_6534_Alpine+MRP-F450.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_9319_Infinity+Reference+6020CS.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_8515_Kenwood+KAC-9103D.html
all for a total of $ 537/- on its website... try looking for these on ebay or other stores..
Victor..
baalz159 on 08/6/2007 15:53:14
This is what i've got so far. I found everything i need on ebay, and here are the prices.
Kenwood KAC-9103D - 130+25 = 155
Infinity Reference 6020CS - 86+17 = 103
INFINITY KAPPA 692.7i - 67+20 = 87
Infinity 475a - 147+25 = 172
Total: $517
swez on 08/6/2007 20:43:20
Very good listing and prices too. Have you settled on the using that Clarion EQ/LD/Mixer too?
Swez
montego_27 on 08/7/2007 11:57:51
Hey Swez,
Don't forget about the Audiobahn AEQ-7 EQ/ LD . Best bang for the buck out there.
http://cgi.ebay.com/Audiobahn-AEQ-7-Equalizer-Crossover-Line-Driver-preamp_W0QQitemZ330153017613QQihZ014QQcategoryZ14931QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
swez on 08/7/2007 14:24:50
Yep, we started there Tego and moved to something a tad different.
How ya been man?
Swez
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