After a running some crazy sub placements, a really odd upper range soundstage, I have "reconfigured" my system to "De-Ghettofy" it a touch. Here is what I have accomplished today.
Moved subs to trunk, with wishy washy results. The interior was VERY cramped with two sub boxes in the passenger compartment, and all of that is now freed up now. But unfortunately, my bass is very different now. It is deeper and cleaner sounding for the most part, but upper bass is NOT finding it's way through the trunk at all.
Doing this prompted the relocation of my rear fill speakers, Alpine type S 6.5 Coaxials. I did this at first to free up the speaker holes for extra air transfer, but the effect of this was not as drastic as hoped for.
THe relocation worked out great. The old stock speakers were 10 OHM (WOWEE!) rated at a mere 16 watts RMS. The "new" Alpine setup has it all. For one, I deleted the whole front stage, including the mids and tweets I popped out of sonme old house speakers whose woofers were toast.
The performance through the whole spectrum is great. Midbass is also much more present in my music, you can really hear the difference in singing, screaming, rapping and yelling. Also, simulated gunfire from some of my rap CD's is so realistic sounding I was ready to take cover myself! The ultra high notes do suffer a little though, without the extra tweeters, they don't want to stand out so brightly.
Smoothly enough, the 6.5's actually wedged into the stock holes beautifully. Though not screwed in, they butt up to the edges where the factory grilles are like they were made to go there. I am going to take some Polyfill or something of such nature and stuff the undersides and around the speaker to fully isolate the back waves.
See the original version at:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2612901
New pics to go up soon.
Swez, Kit, 30hz, other pros, any thoughts on anything I should/ could do better, or anything I am doing wrong here? Also, could use suggestions on any methods to increase my bass output from the trunk without cutting anything. Otherwise, it's back to the cab with the subs, and back to whiny passengers............
Replies (5)
Victor on 07/31/2007 00:44:40
Wont comment about the gear ... but that definitely is one of the most untidy install i have seen... not discouraging u.. but u really need to tidy up things in ur car....
Victor..
swez on 07/31/2007 10:56:09
Try adjusting the HPF/LPF filters on your amps and keep the lows in the trunk.
If you can get clean MB, (60 Hz. and up) from your interior speakers, the sub(s) can be rolled off at 60 Hz and the punch stays inside the cabin.
I won't comment on the rest either, but... Sheesh, what a piece of work.
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 18:32:19
Comment away guys, It is acutally quite a bit better now, as I recarpeted the car, and moved the subs to the trunk. Also, all of the ghettoness on the top of the dash is now gone too.
It looks a hell of a lot better now, but unfortunately, the ghetto bass sounded way better.
A big reason the car was so untidy is as follows.
No compromises were originally taken, it was all based on how I could get the best sound. The bandpass box sounds best behind the passenger seat, and the sealed box sounded best facing the rear seat.
Als0, my system is far from finalized, so I left everything easily Accessable so it would be less work when I do finish her up
Can't really set the HPF at too high, as the bass starts to get muddy, and overall kind of nasty sounding. I am thinking the polyfill will isolate the back wave enough to keep the bass from distorting.
Will post new pictures as soon as my bro's digicam gets back from where ever he left it. Truns me, it looks a lot better.
Now if only the car wasn't such a bucket........
swez on 07/31/2007 19:11:45
It is a bucket... but that's OK. (The hood adornment clarifies everything) LOL
Quote: "Can't really set the HPF at too high, as the bass starts to get muddy, and overall kind of nasty sounding. I am thinking the polyfill will isolate the back wave enough to keep the bass from distorting."
Yes, we understand that... re-read what was suggested or look down to the next paragraph for clarification.
Subs: LPF set near 60 Hz.
Mid/Highs: HPF set close to 60 Hz.
This will help with more punch inside the car, (If the mids can take it) and the low bass will remain strong from the trunk. Try it and see.
Comprendevu? ;-)
Swez
PS I sure do enjoy our little chats son... your posts really do brighten up my days at times. GRIN
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 19:49:58
Yeah, I read correctly, and typed it out wrong. What I meant to say wasd that I cant set the HPF too low, but my brain wasn't interperting orders properly. I tried turning the HPF around 100 hz (really hard to tell with my amp controls) and it was way too muddy. I cranked her up to around 200hz-ish and it sounds great.
The subs are another story. I set the HPF at 50 and leave it there, as the bass will also become muddy and undefined. I am sure replacing the amp will do wonders for this. There have been many, low-budget used options for me to think about lately, but i am having major trouble picking one out. Allow me to explain why.
I want a monoblock design, but after hearing about the demise of Ender2's eclipse subs because he was using two different box designs off a single channel. If I remember correctly, this was due to thje diffrernce in the size of the two chambers causing a difference in resistance of the subs, and the one with the lower resistance getting burnt because of it.
Which is making me want to go waaay back, and start breaking rules, because it worked for me in the past. I have built 7 different systems for myself alone, and none had the bass in any part of the frequency range like my first one.
This one broke almost every car audio rule I have ever heard of. I had a Rampage deck, set at full volume when dialed in.It powered two 10's in a sealed box off a bridged 4 channel, had gain, bass boost and crossover set to the highest point available on the amp. It would go for hours before overheating, (suprisingly enough) sounded great musically and had SPL like crazy. (no idea of a number, but I could literally be heard from nearly a mile away)
I have been doing more and more thinking of how all of this worked for 6 months without any component failure, and came up with a few possibilities.
My buddy who gave me the subs themselves said the box was about twice as big as it should be for those subs. This would usually cause overexcursion and mechanically kill the sub. I began thinking from there, the amp was at full clipping, which would cause a sub not to want to motivate, killing excursion, cooling, and thermally damaging the sub. Plus, input voltage from the Head Unit was probably really clipped out, but low in signal voltage, as it was a cheapie. It didn't even have track memory. Would three bad things at such extremes possibly cancel each other out, and cause great things to happen?
I aplogize if the last paragraph seems like a stupid thing to ask, but I have been spendind my whole time in the car audio hobby attempting to recreate this bass engine, buit to no avail. This thing sounded perfect no matter what music I was listening to, and unless listening at 4+hours at full volume, was BY FAR the most relaible system out of the 7 I have built to date. Especially super deep lows. It just workled. I am sure that if this rig wasn't stolen, I would still be rocking it out today, and whoever stole it is a very lucky man to have it. Then I also wouldn't have found my favorite hobby trying to recreate it.
I really enjoy our chats on here too man. CK has been a great way to keep my mind focused on my hobby without going broker than I already am, and also a great way to stay out of trouble these during these last few months of penance for my teenage years.
Moved subs to trunk, with wishy washy results. The interior was VERY cramped with two sub boxes in the passenger compartment, and all of that is now freed up now. But unfortunately, my bass is very different now. It is deeper and cleaner sounding for the most part, but upper bass is NOT finding it's way through the trunk at all.
Doing this prompted the relocation of my rear fill speakers, Alpine type S 6.5 Coaxials. I did this at first to free up the speaker holes for extra air transfer, but the effect of this was not as drastic as hoped for.
THe relocation worked out great. The old stock speakers were 10 OHM (WOWEE!) rated at a mere 16 watts RMS. The "new" Alpine setup has it all. For one, I deleted the whole front stage, including the mids and tweets I popped out of sonme old house speakers whose woofers were toast.
The performance through the whole spectrum is great. Midbass is also much more present in my music, you can really hear the difference in singing, screaming, rapping and yelling. Also, simulated gunfire from some of my rap CD's is so realistic sounding I was ready to take cover myself! The ultra high notes do suffer a little though, without the extra tweeters, they don't want to stand out so brightly.
Smoothly enough, the 6.5's actually wedged into the stock holes beautifully. Though not screwed in, they butt up to the edges where the factory grilles are like they were made to go there. I am going to take some Polyfill or something of such nature and stuff the undersides and around the speaker to fully isolate the back waves.
See the original version at:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2612901
New pics to go up soon.
Swez, Kit, 30hz, other pros, any thoughts on anything I should/ could do better, or anything I am doing wrong here? Also, could use suggestions on any methods to increase my bass output from the trunk without cutting anything. Otherwise, it's back to the cab with the subs, and back to whiny passengers............
Replies (5)
Victor on 07/31/2007 00:44:40
Wont comment about the gear ... but that definitely is one of the most untidy install i have seen... not discouraging u.. but u really need to tidy up things in ur car....
Victor..
swez on 07/31/2007 10:56:09
Try adjusting the HPF/LPF filters on your amps and keep the lows in the trunk.
If you can get clean MB, (60 Hz. and up) from your interior speakers, the sub(s) can be rolled off at 60 Hz and the punch stays inside the cabin.
I won't comment on the rest either, but... Sheesh, what a piece of work.
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 18:32:19
Comment away guys, It is acutally quite a bit better now, as I recarpeted the car, and moved the subs to the trunk. Also, all of the ghettoness on the top of the dash is now gone too.
It looks a hell of a lot better now, but unfortunately, the ghetto bass sounded way better.
A big reason the car was so untidy is as follows.
No compromises were originally taken, it was all based on how I could get the best sound. The bandpass box sounds best behind the passenger seat, and the sealed box sounded best facing the rear seat.
Als0, my system is far from finalized, so I left everything easily Accessable so it would be less work when I do finish her up
Can't really set the HPF at too high, as the bass starts to get muddy, and overall kind of nasty sounding. I am thinking the polyfill will isolate the back wave enough to keep the bass from distorting.
Will post new pictures as soon as my bro's digicam gets back from where ever he left it. Truns me, it looks a lot better.
Now if only the car wasn't such a bucket........
swez on 07/31/2007 19:11:45
It is a bucket... but that's OK. (The hood adornment clarifies everything) LOL
Quote: "Can't really set the HPF at too high, as the bass starts to get muddy, and overall kind of nasty sounding. I am thinking the polyfill will isolate the back wave enough to keep the bass from distorting."
Yes, we understand that... re-read what was suggested or look down to the next paragraph for clarification.
Subs: LPF set near 60 Hz.
Mid/Highs: HPF set close to 60 Hz.
This will help with more punch inside the car, (If the mids can take it) and the low bass will remain strong from the trunk. Try it and see.
Comprendevu? ;-)
Swez
PS I sure do enjoy our little chats son... your posts really do brighten up my days at times. GRIN
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 19:49:58
Yeah, I read correctly, and typed it out wrong. What I meant to say wasd that I cant set the HPF too low, but my brain wasn't interperting orders properly. I tried turning the HPF around 100 hz (really hard to tell with my amp controls) and it was way too muddy. I cranked her up to around 200hz-ish and it sounds great.
The subs are another story. I set the HPF at 50 and leave it there, as the bass will also become muddy and undefined. I am sure replacing the amp will do wonders for this. There have been many, low-budget used options for me to think about lately, but i am having major trouble picking one out. Allow me to explain why.
I want a monoblock design, but after hearing about the demise of Ender2's eclipse subs because he was using two different box designs off a single channel. If I remember correctly, this was due to thje diffrernce in the size of the two chambers causing a difference in resistance of the subs, and the one with the lower resistance getting burnt because of it.
Which is making me want to go waaay back, and start breaking rules, because it worked for me in the past. I have built 7 different systems for myself alone, and none had the bass in any part of the frequency range like my first one.
This one broke almost every car audio rule I have ever heard of. I had a Rampage deck, set at full volume when dialed in.It powered two 10's in a sealed box off a bridged 4 channel, had gain, bass boost and crossover set to the highest point available on the amp. It would go for hours before overheating, (suprisingly enough) sounded great musically and had SPL like crazy. (no idea of a number, but I could literally be heard from nearly a mile away)
I have been doing more and more thinking of how all of this worked for 6 months without any component failure, and came up with a few possibilities.
My buddy who gave me the subs themselves said the box was about twice as big as it should be for those subs. This would usually cause overexcursion and mechanically kill the sub. I began thinking from there, the amp was at full clipping, which would cause a sub not to want to motivate, killing excursion, cooling, and thermally damaging the sub. Plus, input voltage from the Head Unit was probably really clipped out, but low in signal voltage, as it was a cheapie. It didn't even have track memory. Would three bad things at such extremes possibly cancel each other out, and cause great things to happen?
I aplogize if the last paragraph seems like a stupid thing to ask, but I have been spendind my whole time in the car audio hobby attempting to recreate this bass engine, buit to no avail. This thing sounded perfect no matter what music I was listening to, and unless listening at 4+hours at full volume, was BY FAR the most relaible system out of the 7 I have built to date. Especially super deep lows. It just workled. I am sure that if this rig wasn't stolen, I would still be rocking it out today, and whoever stole it is a very lucky man to have it. Then I also wouldn't have found my favorite hobby trying to recreate it.
I really enjoy our chats on here too man. CK has been a great way to keep my mind focused on my hobby without going broker than I already am, and also a great way to stay out of trouble these during these last few months of penance for my teenage years.
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