My system is beginnening to develop some very odd noise problems. This is very erratic, and until the last few weeks was never a problem.
These are the basic problems.
1. Very infrenquently my stereo makes a very faint engine whine. This seems to occur only at low speeds, which I can't really confirm, because it is very faint. this is occuring through the upper range speakers.
2. Slightly more frequently, if I go over a bumpy road or spped bumps, my subs will make a faint popping sound. It doesn't come through the upper range speakers, and the subs aren't affected by the engine whine.
Of note: All of these issues are instantly corrected by turning off the head unit, and turning it off. Sometimes this fixes it for a long time, and won't act up again for weeks.
Also of note: After installing My Optima Red Top, many issues with dimming ect. went away. But over time, it seems to be getting worse again.
Measures I have taken to correct:
Tightened a loose power wire on my 2 channel amp.
Double checked tightness of the other amp connections, and these were good.
Check ground location bolt tightness. Up to snuff.
Suspected causes:
Possible looseness on H/U ground. Will take off dash tommorrow to get to the bottom of this.
An alternator that I suspect is going faulty. I did note that dimming is becoming an issues again, and I am beginning to believe that the old thing is just about toast.
So any advice on where to go from here? I am going about nutty with this one.........
Replies (28)
swez on 07/22/2007 10:46:58
It sounds like the HU is not getting the job of noise blanking done properly here. It could be a ground problem at the HU or the RCA outs are not well grounded. (Pioneer HU's seem to have a recent reputation for needing better grounding of the HU and RCA's at the HU.)
As for power issues, the Optima battery may have been fine at the beginning of your install and all was well. Now, if you your ALT is on its last legs, it may not be keeping up with the load.
The stock ALT for this car is probably the CS-130 Delco-Remy model. The stock specs are 100/105/108 amps at full output. (Above 2500 RPM) At idle speed, (Under 1000 RPM) the output will be closer to 60A's of current.
Have your ALT tested at a local NAPA, Pep Boys or AutoZone. They can tell you the charging rate, current output and voltage numbers from testing the car in the lot or repair bay. (A free test)
Once you have the test run, you'll know if the ALT is on its last legs or not. You'll also know if the ALT is just not strong enough to power your system and still feed the car electricals adequately as well.
Have you done the Big 3 wire upgrade yet?
Swez
PS You have a few options once the test is done:
A. Stock ALT and add a Battery Isolator Kit, (Relay type solinoid version) and dedicated BAT for your sub amp only
B. Drop in a H.O. ALT (150-200 ampere model)
C. Do both A & B upgrades together
jamesp on 07/23/2007 07:47:39
SQLThump, if you are still operating your 4 Ohm stable in bridged mode bass amp at 2 Ohms bridged you may be getting a bit of noise as the mosfets melt down internally.
Or is it the amp for the highs you are running bridged at 2 Ohms? Maybe try hooking up which ever amp it is at 4 Ohms and see if the problem goes away.
swez on 07/23/2007 15:13:41
Another option is possible here... dial back on your amp gains and see if the noise is now inaudible.
Swez
SQLThump on 07/23/2007 15:20:31
Good thinkin James! I'm About ready to take off, So I will kill the gain and check if that fixes it. After that, I will try 4 ohms.
Also, I forgot to mention the RCA inputs on the sub output ARE damaged. It's getting worse too. Maybe this is the cause? One of the inputs will stop working until I pretty much just touch it, and then it operated fine for a while.
swez on 07/23/2007 15:28:47
Poor or lose RCA connections can be a problem too. You may have a bad connection to the main amplifier board that is flaking out on ya. That can often be fixed with either replacing the RCA jack module or resoldering the RCA module back into the board. (Use 60/40 Alloy solder here, rosin core flux.... NOT ACID CORE FLUX)
Swez
SQLThump on 07/23/2007 17:36:40
Interesting turn of events. After trying everying to get the system to make noise again (HARD cornering, BIG speed bumps, wicked potholes) so I can combat it from there, all I suceeded in doing was putting the amp into thermal protection. This has only happened once before. Odd. I may just have to wait for it to decide to do it again. As I said, this is pretty infrequent.
SQLThump on 07/26/2007 11:20:00
Still no luck getting the system to make noise, so I am beginning to assume that I must have fixed the problem.
swez on 07/26/2007 13:26:41
Well, don't look a "gift-horse" in the mouth then.
If the problem shows up again and is frequent, then we can try to help track down the cause.
Swez
SQLThump on 07/26/2007 13:33:07
Yeah, I think that will have to be the way to go. I had a feeling that as soon as I brought it up, it would do something like this.
Hopefully, it just doesn't come back.
What is a "gift horse"? Why do I not want to look it in the mouth? What if it has dental problems? LOL
Funny how different slang is over generations. I remember when you brought up the word "hinky" here one time. I like that, and use it now. It just seems to fit the "hinky" people really well.
swez on 07/26/2007 14:01:51
"Gift horse" is an old slang too... it means when something good comes your way... don't question it, don't analyze it, just enjoy it for the moment.
I still don't fully understand the term "Hinky" well either. In general terms, it means that something is odd, out of the norm or wierd about a given situation or person. It is also an old Law enforcement term. "This guys' story is kinda hinky". (What the guy is saying does not line up with a cops intuition) "Something fishy/hinky about this guys story... we'd best dig deeper and find out more details".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinky
Swez
SQLThump on 07/26/2007 15:54:08
Sweet.
Hopefully the "gift horse" will ride for a long time.
Now, back to work on the huge list of other things wrongg with my car.
swez on 07/26/2007 20:02:43
One "Gift Horse" came to visit my mailbox this week. I had to ask for it, state the reasons it was needed and prayed for it and then wait for the answer.
This "Gift Horse" came right on time and had all the goods that were requested as well. It took about 2 weeks to get the answer.
Another "gift horse" arrived on Friday afternoon of last week. (Not a moment too soon either) I only said 1 word in prayer.... HELP!!! The answer came about 30 minutes later. (This story is totally unbelievable, but since it actually happened, I witnessed and benefitted from it, I cannot deny it happened) Bet your guessing all over the place on this one huh? I won't share it here as it's very personal and inappropriate for this forum
Both "gift horses" were actions and answers to huganchous issues I have been stymied by for a long time. They say great things come in 3's... so I have one more shot left in this round. Gonna ponder that one a while before I pull the trigger.
It's not a material thing per-se, (only a small part of it is) but rather a life changing one. It will be a true "3-pete" when this horse arrives.
How's that for a "cliff hanger" of a story? GRIN
Swez
jamesp on 07/27/2007 08:31:14
SQLThump, You look in a horses mouth to tell his age and condition, they wear thier teeth down as they age and eventually cant chew thier food and die. The old gift horse saying sort of means if someone is nice enough to give you a horse, dont look in his mouth, at least in front of the person that gave the gift.
This old saying originated before cars and other fast modes of tranportation as well as mechanized farm equipment was common. A horse often meant the difference between feeding your family or starving or getting your crops to market.
Today, the equivelant might be similar to someone giving you a car when you are really in need of one. You wouldnt want to start looking for problems or complaining about the fact that the car was not suitably detailed under the hood.
Your "gift horse" was simply the fact that your problem noises seemed to go away somewhat spontaneously, so there is no need to dwell on the fact or do too much head scratching trying to figure out why the problem went away.
Im sure that is more than you, or anyone else for that matter, ever wanted to know about that subject.so Ill stop boring you with it now. Besides, Ive got to go see a man about a horse.
swez on 07/27/2007 08:51:21
Well said Jimmy... good splainin'. Should write that one for Wikipedia.
Be careful when you go and see a man about that horse. Don't look em in the eye when he's busy. LOL
Are we older than dirt or what?
Swez
jamesp on 07/27/2007 11:52:29
Yes, older than dirt and Im starting to feel all of the breaks, cuts, tears and repairs that I have accumulated over the years. I would have tried to be a little bit easier on my ol body had I known I was going to last this long.
swez on 07/27/2007 15:48:08
I hear ya brother.... how's that hand a mendin'? Someone should have told us they already had crash test dummies and we didn't need to try those stunts. (Human's need not apply)
Swez
SQLThump on 07/27/2007 18:36:13
If all of this made you guys feel older than dirt, this makes me feel like I need to go change my Huggies.
I think nowadays the "gift horse" has evolved into just a simple "BONUS DUUUUDE!" LOL
swez on 07/27/2007 19:33:45
Yeah... dats it... change your Huggies and collect your Bonus Duuude!
Swez GRIN
SQLThump on 07/30/2007 23:12:36
After riding in my Huggies through the desert on a "gift horse" with no name, I think have come to a conclusion of what the cause is.
One of the RCA's is damaged, as I previously mentioned, and it turns out it was the cause of a little more than I thought.
Yesterday, after a noise free day, it started making noise. Not bothered, i proceeded along with my driving. Drove over a bump, and the output dropped as it occaisonally does, and the whine got worse. Touched the RCA plug, and voila, EVERYTHING stopped.
I am pretty sure that the cause of this has been running my amp at two ohms, and that instead of popping as most 2 channels would, it more or less is "slow cooking" and stuff is starting to melt over time.
I touched the amp the other day after a lond day of driving, and literally burnt myself on this thing. I do know for a fact now that if my stove breaks, I can just go turn the system up to 30 and I will have a cooking surface...........
So basically, a new sub amp will be the first modification on the list of crap to replace in my system. Glad to see it is not my Head Unit.
Other conclusion......Profile should really lower the temperure that the amp goes into protect mode. I have had this amp almost a year now, and have only put it into protect mode twice. I guess its not tooo bad for a junker.....GRIN
jamesp on 07/31/2007 07:59:27
SQLThump, when you think about it...if you have a kick booty sub amp that is stable at..say... 1/2 Ohm
and you have an amp that is stable in bridged mode at 4 Ohms...but it is bridged to a 2 Ohm load...
What do these amps have in common????
Both amps above are operating just a hair away from a dead short.
The only difference is that one of the amps is designed to operate in that mode....with the other it is just a matter of time before it consumes itself.
It is fairly easy to design an amp that is stable at 1/2 Ohm. It is a bit more difficult to design an amp that is stable at 1/2 Ohm and sounds GOOD at the range you want to use it for.
Most amps sound the best when running at thier most efficient or most stable range
swez on 07/31/2007 10:41:29
Hummm, a portable space heater or coffee warmer type thing. That's like a 2 for 1 deal. GRIN
Time to get serious and find an amp that matches your needs. (Cash permitting of coarse)
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 18:24:30
Yeah, time to save up some money for this. Unfortunately, I just got suspended from work over some major BS, so it may be a while before I get a new one.
I am really suprised to see the Profile last this long. I was kind of hoping it would have blown already so those who scrutinize my use of funds could have seen a need.....
Maybe its time to crank the gain, crossover and bass boost and have a race to see which one of my bass engine components gives out first........
swez on 07/31/2007 19:00:25
How about setting a few fresh goals and see if they can be reached by the end of this year? (Instead of blowing up gear w/o a replacement)
A key thought here, have a buy list of items you hope to acquire over the next 4 months. From that buy list, set aside "X" amount of cash each pay period and don't touch the funds. (They are allocated and cannot be raided short of emergencies) Car repairs, a Slurrpie attack, a traffic ticket ect.
Visual aid:
Find a nice picture of the "TOY" we desire next and snap it on our desk top. Grab an envelope, (My XYZ amp fund) and stuff some coin in that sucker until there's enough $$ in there to buy what we want.
Once that's in the bag, move to item #2 and so on.
This system works very well for adults and children alike. I use it even to this day. Yes, it's so simple that even a 7 year old can do this. We did this with our kids and amazingly, they got to work on saving their coins, selling off junk at garage sales and doing odd jobs to make a few extra bucks. When it came time and they had met the savings goal for that item, we took them out to buy it and had a small pizza party to celebrate a goal accomplished. We always gave them incentives too. (Small tasks that were age appropriate, to make a few extra coins)
I know lots of adults who cannot manage money worth a dam. (As in water over the dam) Money comes in and goes right back out w/o a single plan for major future purchases or needs. It's not that they lack adequate income, but rather how they spend it. (Willey Nillie)
The envelope system is so simple, one just needs a goal and the self-discipline to remain on track for a few months at a time. It's very gratifying to open up that envelope and say... "Hey, there's enough cash in here to buy the next TOY I've been saving for."
BTW, being poor for a time in life can be a very good thing. It really simplifies/limits the choices and options for daily life. Some may feel too limited by this option, (And it is limiting) but if one gets use to cutting off superfulous spending habits, it's amazing how well one can manage larger cash flows later. This is true, no matter what age or income level we have.
This is good as it not only keeps one "living within their means", but it also teaches how to stay humble and out of debt later in life. Try it and see. (BTDT and know it works very well) SMILE
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 19:53:15
That sounds like a good plan there. I have set myself up a few goals for the next 6 months and beyond that. Life has thrown me some interesting curves last few weeks, and my outlook has changed considerably for the better. I'll send a mail and let you know what's up.
swez on 07/31/2007 20:00:07
Please do... my Juno e-mail is no longer active. Try my other one.
swezdp@yahoo.com
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 20:18:46
DOH! I already sent it. Good think aol automatically saves sent mail. You will have it in a minute
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 20:21:11
There we go!
swez on 07/31/2007 22:12:34
Got it and sent a reply... your mail is in
These are the basic problems.
1. Very infrenquently my stereo makes a very faint engine whine. This seems to occur only at low speeds, which I can't really confirm, because it is very faint. this is occuring through the upper range speakers.
2. Slightly more frequently, if I go over a bumpy road or spped bumps, my subs will make a faint popping sound. It doesn't come through the upper range speakers, and the subs aren't affected by the engine whine.
Of note: All of these issues are instantly corrected by turning off the head unit, and turning it off. Sometimes this fixes it for a long time, and won't act up again for weeks.
Also of note: After installing My Optima Red Top, many issues with dimming ect. went away. But over time, it seems to be getting worse again.
Measures I have taken to correct:
Tightened a loose power wire on my 2 channel amp.
Double checked tightness of the other amp connections, and these were good.
Check ground location bolt tightness. Up to snuff.
Suspected causes:
Possible looseness on H/U ground. Will take off dash tommorrow to get to the bottom of this.
An alternator that I suspect is going faulty. I did note that dimming is becoming an issues again, and I am beginning to believe that the old thing is just about toast.
So any advice on where to go from here? I am going about nutty with this one.........
Replies (28)
swez on 07/22/2007 10:46:58
It sounds like the HU is not getting the job of noise blanking done properly here. It could be a ground problem at the HU or the RCA outs are not well grounded. (Pioneer HU's seem to have a recent reputation for needing better grounding of the HU and RCA's at the HU.)
As for power issues, the Optima battery may have been fine at the beginning of your install and all was well. Now, if you your ALT is on its last legs, it may not be keeping up with the load.
The stock ALT for this car is probably the CS-130 Delco-Remy model. The stock specs are 100/105/108 amps at full output. (Above 2500 RPM) At idle speed, (Under 1000 RPM) the output will be closer to 60A's of current.
Have your ALT tested at a local NAPA, Pep Boys or AutoZone. They can tell you the charging rate, current output and voltage numbers from testing the car in the lot or repair bay. (A free test)
Once you have the test run, you'll know if the ALT is on its last legs or not. You'll also know if the ALT is just not strong enough to power your system and still feed the car electricals adequately as well.
Have you done the Big 3 wire upgrade yet?
Swez
PS You have a few options once the test is done:
A. Stock ALT and add a Battery Isolator Kit, (Relay type solinoid version) and dedicated BAT for your sub amp only
B. Drop in a H.O. ALT (150-200 ampere model)
C. Do both A & B upgrades together
jamesp on 07/23/2007 07:47:39
SQLThump, if you are still operating your 4 Ohm stable in bridged mode bass amp at 2 Ohms bridged you may be getting a bit of noise as the mosfets melt down internally.
Or is it the amp for the highs you are running bridged at 2 Ohms? Maybe try hooking up which ever amp it is at 4 Ohms and see if the problem goes away.
swez on 07/23/2007 15:13:41
Another option is possible here... dial back on your amp gains and see if the noise is now inaudible.
Swez
SQLThump on 07/23/2007 15:20:31
Good thinkin James! I'm About ready to take off, So I will kill the gain and check if that fixes it. After that, I will try 4 ohms.
Also, I forgot to mention the RCA inputs on the sub output ARE damaged. It's getting worse too. Maybe this is the cause? One of the inputs will stop working until I pretty much just touch it, and then it operated fine for a while.
swez on 07/23/2007 15:28:47
Poor or lose RCA connections can be a problem too. You may have a bad connection to the main amplifier board that is flaking out on ya. That can often be fixed with either replacing the RCA jack module or resoldering the RCA module back into the board. (Use 60/40 Alloy solder here, rosin core flux.... NOT ACID CORE FLUX)
Swez
SQLThump on 07/23/2007 17:36:40
Interesting turn of events. After trying everying to get the system to make noise again (HARD cornering, BIG speed bumps, wicked potholes) so I can combat it from there, all I suceeded in doing was putting the amp into thermal protection. This has only happened once before. Odd. I may just have to wait for it to decide to do it again. As I said, this is pretty infrequent.
SQLThump on 07/26/2007 11:20:00
Still no luck getting the system to make noise, so I am beginning to assume that I must have fixed the problem.
swez on 07/26/2007 13:26:41
Well, don't look a "gift-horse" in the mouth then.
If the problem shows up again and is frequent, then we can try to help track down the cause.
Swez
SQLThump on 07/26/2007 13:33:07
Yeah, I think that will have to be the way to go. I had a feeling that as soon as I brought it up, it would do something like this.
Hopefully, it just doesn't come back.
What is a "gift horse"? Why do I not want to look it in the mouth? What if it has dental problems? LOL
Funny how different slang is over generations. I remember when you brought up the word "hinky" here one time. I like that, and use it now. It just seems to fit the "hinky" people really well.
swez on 07/26/2007 14:01:51
"Gift horse" is an old slang too... it means when something good comes your way... don't question it, don't analyze it, just enjoy it for the moment.
I still don't fully understand the term "Hinky" well either. In general terms, it means that something is odd, out of the norm or wierd about a given situation or person. It is also an old Law enforcement term. "This guys' story is kinda hinky". (What the guy is saying does not line up with a cops intuition) "Something fishy/hinky about this guys story... we'd best dig deeper and find out more details".
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hinky
Swez
SQLThump on 07/26/2007 15:54:08
Sweet.
Hopefully the "gift horse" will ride for a long time.
Now, back to work on the huge list of other things wrongg with my car.
swez on 07/26/2007 20:02:43
One "Gift Horse" came to visit my mailbox this week. I had to ask for it, state the reasons it was needed and prayed for it and then wait for the answer.
This "Gift Horse" came right on time and had all the goods that were requested as well. It took about 2 weeks to get the answer.
Another "gift horse" arrived on Friday afternoon of last week. (Not a moment too soon either) I only said 1 word in prayer.... HELP!!! The answer came about 30 minutes later. (This story is totally unbelievable, but since it actually happened, I witnessed and benefitted from it, I cannot deny it happened) Bet your guessing all over the place on this one huh? I won't share it here as it's very personal and inappropriate for this forum
Both "gift horses" were actions and answers to huganchous issues I have been stymied by for a long time. They say great things come in 3's... so I have one more shot left in this round. Gonna ponder that one a while before I pull the trigger.
It's not a material thing per-se, (only a small part of it is) but rather a life changing one. It will be a true "3-pete" when this horse arrives.
How's that for a "cliff hanger" of a story? GRIN
Swez
jamesp on 07/27/2007 08:31:14
SQLThump, You look in a horses mouth to tell his age and condition, they wear thier teeth down as they age and eventually cant chew thier food and die. The old gift horse saying sort of means if someone is nice enough to give you a horse, dont look in his mouth, at least in front of the person that gave the gift.
This old saying originated before cars and other fast modes of tranportation as well as mechanized farm equipment was common. A horse often meant the difference between feeding your family or starving or getting your crops to market.
Today, the equivelant might be similar to someone giving you a car when you are really in need of one. You wouldnt want to start looking for problems or complaining about the fact that the car was not suitably detailed under the hood.
Your "gift horse" was simply the fact that your problem noises seemed to go away somewhat spontaneously, so there is no need to dwell on the fact or do too much head scratching trying to figure out why the problem went away.
Im sure that is more than you, or anyone else for that matter, ever wanted to know about that subject.so Ill stop boring you with it now. Besides, Ive got to go see a man about a horse.
swez on 07/27/2007 08:51:21
Well said Jimmy... good splainin'. Should write that one for Wikipedia.
Be careful when you go and see a man about that horse. Don't look em in the eye when he's busy. LOL
Are we older than dirt or what?
Swez
jamesp on 07/27/2007 11:52:29
Yes, older than dirt and Im starting to feel all of the breaks, cuts, tears and repairs that I have accumulated over the years. I would have tried to be a little bit easier on my ol body had I known I was going to last this long.
swez on 07/27/2007 15:48:08
I hear ya brother.... how's that hand a mendin'? Someone should have told us they already had crash test dummies and we didn't need to try those stunts. (Human's need not apply)
Swez
SQLThump on 07/27/2007 18:36:13
If all of this made you guys feel older than dirt, this makes me feel like I need to go change my Huggies.
I think nowadays the "gift horse" has evolved into just a simple "BONUS DUUUUDE!" LOL
swez on 07/27/2007 19:33:45
Yeah... dats it... change your Huggies and collect your Bonus Duuude!
Swez GRIN
SQLThump on 07/30/2007 23:12:36
After riding in my Huggies through the desert on a "gift horse" with no name, I think have come to a conclusion of what the cause is.
One of the RCA's is damaged, as I previously mentioned, and it turns out it was the cause of a little more than I thought.
Yesterday, after a noise free day, it started making noise. Not bothered, i proceeded along with my driving. Drove over a bump, and the output dropped as it occaisonally does, and the whine got worse. Touched the RCA plug, and voila, EVERYTHING stopped.
I am pretty sure that the cause of this has been running my amp at two ohms, and that instead of popping as most 2 channels would, it more or less is "slow cooking" and stuff is starting to melt over time.
I touched the amp the other day after a lond day of driving, and literally burnt myself on this thing. I do know for a fact now that if my stove breaks, I can just go turn the system up to 30 and I will have a cooking surface...........
So basically, a new sub amp will be the first modification on the list of crap to replace in my system. Glad to see it is not my Head Unit.
Other conclusion......Profile should really lower the temperure that the amp goes into protect mode. I have had this amp almost a year now, and have only put it into protect mode twice. I guess its not tooo bad for a junker.....GRIN
jamesp on 07/31/2007 07:59:27
SQLThump, when you think about it...if you have a kick booty sub amp that is stable at..say... 1/2 Ohm
and you have an amp that is stable in bridged mode at 4 Ohms...but it is bridged to a 2 Ohm load...
What do these amps have in common????
Both amps above are operating just a hair away from a dead short.
The only difference is that one of the amps is designed to operate in that mode....with the other it is just a matter of time before it consumes itself.
It is fairly easy to design an amp that is stable at 1/2 Ohm. It is a bit more difficult to design an amp that is stable at 1/2 Ohm and sounds GOOD at the range you want to use it for.
Most amps sound the best when running at thier most efficient or most stable range
swez on 07/31/2007 10:41:29
Hummm, a portable space heater or coffee warmer type thing. That's like a 2 for 1 deal. GRIN
Time to get serious and find an amp that matches your needs. (Cash permitting of coarse)
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 18:24:30
Yeah, time to save up some money for this. Unfortunately, I just got suspended from work over some major BS, so it may be a while before I get a new one.
I am really suprised to see the Profile last this long. I was kind of hoping it would have blown already so those who scrutinize my use of funds could have seen a need.....
Maybe its time to crank the gain, crossover and bass boost and have a race to see which one of my bass engine components gives out first........
swez on 07/31/2007 19:00:25
How about setting a few fresh goals and see if they can be reached by the end of this year? (Instead of blowing up gear w/o a replacement)
A key thought here, have a buy list of items you hope to acquire over the next 4 months. From that buy list, set aside "X" amount of cash each pay period and don't touch the funds. (They are allocated and cannot be raided short of emergencies) Car repairs, a Slurrpie attack, a traffic ticket ect.
Visual aid:
Find a nice picture of the "TOY" we desire next and snap it on our desk top. Grab an envelope, (My XYZ amp fund) and stuff some coin in that sucker until there's enough $$ in there to buy what we want.
Once that's in the bag, move to item #2 and so on.
This system works very well for adults and children alike. I use it even to this day. Yes, it's so simple that even a 7 year old can do this. We did this with our kids and amazingly, they got to work on saving their coins, selling off junk at garage sales and doing odd jobs to make a few extra bucks. When it came time and they had met the savings goal for that item, we took them out to buy it and had a small pizza party to celebrate a goal accomplished. We always gave them incentives too. (Small tasks that were age appropriate, to make a few extra coins)
I know lots of adults who cannot manage money worth a dam. (As in water over the dam) Money comes in and goes right back out w/o a single plan for major future purchases or needs. It's not that they lack adequate income, but rather how they spend it. (Willey Nillie)
The envelope system is so simple, one just needs a goal and the self-discipline to remain on track for a few months at a time. It's very gratifying to open up that envelope and say... "Hey, there's enough cash in here to buy the next TOY I've been saving for."
BTW, being poor for a time in life can be a very good thing. It really simplifies/limits the choices and options for daily life. Some may feel too limited by this option, (And it is limiting) but if one gets use to cutting off superfulous spending habits, it's amazing how well one can manage larger cash flows later. This is true, no matter what age or income level we have.
This is good as it not only keeps one "living within their means", but it also teaches how to stay humble and out of debt later in life. Try it and see. (BTDT and know it works very well) SMILE
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 19:53:15
That sounds like a good plan there. I have set myself up a few goals for the next 6 months and beyond that. Life has thrown me some interesting curves last few weeks, and my outlook has changed considerably for the better. I'll send a mail and let you know what's up.
swez on 07/31/2007 20:00:07
Please do... my Juno e-mail is no longer active. Try my other one.
swezdp@yahoo.com
Swez
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 20:18:46
DOH! I already sent it. Good think aol automatically saves sent mail. You will have it in a minute
SQLThump on 07/31/2007 20:21:11
There we go!
swez on 07/31/2007 22:12:34
Got it and sent a reply... your mail is in
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