I know about the saying, "You get what you pay for", but when it comes to car speakers (and car audio equipment in general), how much of that "pay" is for the name? What's the difference between a 5 1/4" 50wrms speaker that costs $100, and a 5 1/4" 50wrms speaker that costs $19.99?
If I remember correctly, Mr B said that there haven't been any major innovations in speaker technology in quite a while.
How much of a difference in quality of materials can there be? Aren't all magnets, steel (or aluminum) used for the baskets,copper wire, cone material, glue,etc. pretty much the same quality?
I guess what I'm asking is: If a "garbage brand" speaker (Boss, Directed Audio, Dual, Power Base, etc.) is "advertised" to handle 500w, but in reality will actually handle 50wrms, what makes it "worse" than a name brand speaker (JBL, Boston Acoustics, MB Quart, Focal, etc.) that's advertised to hande 50wrms?
Replies (3)
swez on 07/15/2007 11:18:17
Good question and hard to answer at that.
Let's clarify some facts first:
1. Speakers have been around a long time and the basic function of a speaker has changed little in 30 years (They convert electrical signals into audible sound... a transduce)
2. Materials and speaker technology has changes a lot in the past 10 years (Power handling, stronger & lighter cones, larger coils and more efficient motor structures)
Price VS Quality:
A lot of this is marketing hype and perceived brand value. Also, most big name makers spend a lot of time & money in R&D in search of better quality materials, design testing and then take it to market with expensive advertising. (JBL, Infinity, MTX, Kicker and so on)
Other companies are just flooding the market with low cost products and as many outlets as they can find to sell in mass. (Boss, Dual, Legacy, Pyle...)
Still other companies are OEM suppliers that have to balance low cost demands with high production numbers. These companies are not well advertised, but very well known to car makers. They pump out hundreds of speakers an hour and often have contracts with car makers that specify what they want. (Build to specs) They often have several production lines going all at the same time and make speakers for many different end users.
The last group are niche market companies like Focal, Diamond, MBQ, Rainbow and Bose. These guys are generally on the cutting edge with technology enhancements, high quality materials and very advanced electronic crossovers. They don't aim for high production counts so much as "Snob appeal". They know that those who can afford the best, don't really mind the high price tag.
The old addage... "Ya get what ya pay for" is generally true to a point. The price does not always reflect quality or market perception. (Up or down the scale) It mainly depends on the channels they are marketed by.
1. Some makers sell direct to customers.(Best deals here)
2. Others use several layers of middlemen and each hand gets a cut. Same products, but passes through several hands and the end user price is based on how many hands are in that channel. This is where high markups show up. Every hand in the chain takes a profit and the consumer pays more for said schemes.
Mfg direct to end user
Mfg to retailer/e-tailer
Mfg to Broker/Wholesaler to Distributor to retailer/e-tailer
The more hands the product passes through, the more it will cost the end user. Does it mean the product is superior or inferior? No, but we do know that well known brand names do their best to offer quality products at prices that fit the market demand.
Finally, this is a commodity type product. Prices to the end user do change based on supply and demand. If the market has a low demand and produced units are high, the price comes down. The converse is true. If market demand is high and production numbers are limited, expect higher prices.
In a nutshell, manufacturing costs are pretty much fixed. However, channels used, market demand and preceived value are the price drivers. The best deals often come either directly from the Mfg of Mfg to wholesalers that sell direct to end users. The best deals come from a Mfg that makes thousands of units ahead of time, but the market is soft and they are forced to dump products at low cost into the marketplace via direct or wholesalers.
A good example would be guys like Parts Express or Madison Sound. They buy large lots at low prices, direct from the Mfg. If they buy enough units, the cost is lower and the prices are better to the end user as well.
Both companies cater to low, mid and high end product users. However, the prices are often well below market value as there are few hands in the middle. Advertising costs are minimal with both companies. It's just a matter of inventory levels and cost of overhead they need to stay in business.
Hope that answers your question.
Swez
PS As you can see, there are many variables that go into the price an end user will wind up paying for any given commodity.
trunkisloud on 07/15/2007 18:18:33
i wasnt aware of directed audio being "garbage".
MrBrownstone on 07/16/2007 14:46:20
Many mfrs make a Small, Medium, and Large line to satisfy dealer pricepoints. Small, usually very low fidelity & build quality, Big...usually the most advanced materials & superior build quality.
It all really depends upon your application as to how much to spend. If you are just slapping in factory replacements, then the lower end is just fine. If you are optimizing your installation (custom pods, etc.) you probably won't be satisfied without medium quality or higher cost models.
For a good set of 2Way components, ~$300-$350 (retail) is the most money I'd spend if you want higher quality and $550 for a 3 way set.
The art of speakers is 90% installation. Once you've created the right environment, you'll be very happy with a number of brands regardless of the cost of the product.
The main jist of what I was getting at is that Quality of sound hasn't changed much...but rather, POWER handling has been so instrumental.
Also, electronics have gotten vastly more efficient, but we're still dealing with a 1-3 THD on a tweeter and 5-9% THD on a woofer...so regardless how much you spend on a woofer, making them lighter makes them more efficient,...but you're still vibrating air with a cone, holding it together with rubber (or foam rubber) and a fabric spyder.
I've heard some 11 yr old speakers, and some new speakers...and they are comparable.
If I remember correctly, Mr B said that there haven't been any major innovations in speaker technology in quite a while.
How much of a difference in quality of materials can there be? Aren't all magnets, steel (or aluminum) used for the baskets,copper wire, cone material, glue,etc. pretty much the same quality?
I guess what I'm asking is: If a "garbage brand" speaker (Boss, Directed Audio, Dual, Power Base, etc.) is "advertised" to handle 500w, but in reality will actually handle 50wrms, what makes it "worse" than a name brand speaker (JBL, Boston Acoustics, MB Quart, Focal, etc.) that's advertised to hande 50wrms?
Replies (3)
swez on 07/15/2007 11:18:17
Good question and hard to answer at that.
Let's clarify some facts first:
1. Speakers have been around a long time and the basic function of a speaker has changed little in 30 years (They convert electrical signals into audible sound... a transduce)
2. Materials and speaker technology has changes a lot in the past 10 years (Power handling, stronger & lighter cones, larger coils and more efficient motor structures)
Price VS Quality:
A lot of this is marketing hype and perceived brand value. Also, most big name makers spend a lot of time & money in R&D in search of better quality materials, design testing and then take it to market with expensive advertising. (JBL, Infinity, MTX, Kicker and so on)
Other companies are just flooding the market with low cost products and as many outlets as they can find to sell in mass. (Boss, Dual, Legacy, Pyle...)
Still other companies are OEM suppliers that have to balance low cost demands with high production numbers. These companies are not well advertised, but very well known to car makers. They pump out hundreds of speakers an hour and often have contracts with car makers that specify what they want. (Build to specs) They often have several production lines going all at the same time and make speakers for many different end users.
The last group are niche market companies like Focal, Diamond, MBQ, Rainbow and Bose. These guys are generally on the cutting edge with technology enhancements, high quality materials and very advanced electronic crossovers. They don't aim for high production counts so much as "Snob appeal". They know that those who can afford the best, don't really mind the high price tag.
The old addage... "Ya get what ya pay for" is generally true to a point. The price does not always reflect quality or market perception. (Up or down the scale) It mainly depends on the channels they are marketed by.
1. Some makers sell direct to customers.(Best deals here)
2. Others use several layers of middlemen and each hand gets a cut. Same products, but passes through several hands and the end user price is based on how many hands are in that channel. This is where high markups show up. Every hand in the chain takes a profit and the consumer pays more for said schemes.
Mfg direct to end user
Mfg to retailer/e-tailer
Mfg to Broker/Wholesaler to Distributor to retailer/e-tailer
The more hands the product passes through, the more it will cost the end user. Does it mean the product is superior or inferior? No, but we do know that well known brand names do their best to offer quality products at prices that fit the market demand.
Finally, this is a commodity type product. Prices to the end user do change based on supply and demand. If the market has a low demand and produced units are high, the price comes down. The converse is true. If market demand is high and production numbers are limited, expect higher prices.
In a nutshell, manufacturing costs are pretty much fixed. However, channels used, market demand and preceived value are the price drivers. The best deals often come either directly from the Mfg of Mfg to wholesalers that sell direct to end users. The best deals come from a Mfg that makes thousands of units ahead of time, but the market is soft and they are forced to dump products at low cost into the marketplace via direct or wholesalers.
A good example would be guys like Parts Express or Madison Sound. They buy large lots at low prices, direct from the Mfg. If they buy enough units, the cost is lower and the prices are better to the end user as well.
Both companies cater to low, mid and high end product users. However, the prices are often well below market value as there are few hands in the middle. Advertising costs are minimal with both companies. It's just a matter of inventory levels and cost of overhead they need to stay in business.
Hope that answers your question.
Swez
PS As you can see, there are many variables that go into the price an end user will wind up paying for any given commodity.
trunkisloud on 07/15/2007 18:18:33
i wasnt aware of directed audio being "garbage".
MrBrownstone on 07/16/2007 14:46:20
Many mfrs make a Small, Medium, and Large line to satisfy dealer pricepoints. Small, usually very low fidelity & build quality, Big...usually the most advanced materials & superior build quality.
It all really depends upon your application as to how much to spend. If you are just slapping in factory replacements, then the lower end is just fine. If you are optimizing your installation (custom pods, etc.) you probably won't be satisfied without medium quality or higher cost models.
For a good set of 2Way components, ~$300-$350 (retail) is the most money I'd spend if you want higher quality and $550 for a 3 way set.
The art of speakers is 90% installation. Once you've created the right environment, you'll be very happy with a number of brands regardless of the cost of the product.
The main jist of what I was getting at is that Quality of sound hasn't changed much...but rather, POWER handling has been so instrumental.
Also, electronics have gotten vastly more efficient, but we're still dealing with a 1-3 THD on a tweeter and 5-9% THD on a woofer...so regardless how much you spend on a woofer, making them lighter makes them more efficient,...but you're still vibrating air with a cone, holding it together with rubber (or foam rubber) and a fabric spyder.
I've heard some 11 yr old speakers, and some new speakers...and they are comparable.
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