k so i am gonna take a shot in the dark,as far as the diy article , i understand the application but am a lil lost on the symptoms. so here goes ... i have a 12 that after a while of good bass stops working alltogether...now..if i push on the cone(is that right?) it starts to work for a bit..the woofer is a concept 12 w/ quite a few years on it but seems to be holding up pretty good . any info is always appreciated... hope all had a good 4th!!!!!!!!!!!!USFLAG
Replies (12)
swez on 07/10/2007 01:46:44
This sounds more like the tinsel wire has separated at the cone, under the dust cap. It loses it connection until the cone is depressed and will work for a while yes? Classic symtom of what was noted in your post.
Another thing to inspect, look at the tinsel leads as they attach to the speaker lug connectors. If one is loose, a cold solder joint or the tinsel lead is deformed, (stretched out of shape) a similar result is possible.
If the coil separated from the spider, the sub would give bass but lots of rattle too. The spider would not control the cone/voice coil tolerances and make a lot of non-musical racket.
Do you think you can safely remove the dust cover and inspect the connections from the coil to tinsel leads? This takes lots of patience and a very delicate operation to repair properly. Is the sub worth all that effort?
Swez
PS A few high quality pictures might be of some help in diagnosing the issue and the correct repair efforts.
SQLThump on 07/10/2007 03:22:07
Sounds like a tinsel lead to me too. Dust caps can be tedious, and possibly frustrating work. Reattaching them can be a real pain here.
For takinh off dust caps, I like to use a non government plastic card (definitely not your I.D. or drivers liscence, maybe a Blockbuster or Kroger card, this card will get damaged) and find a place where the dustcap might be a little weakly sealed, and slowly work the card into there. Once the card is in, try to work it around slowly in a sawing motion, but be gentle, so as not to pop the thing back out, and possibly cut yourself. (dull cuts are worse than sharp ones, and I have done this twice.)
After you get the cap off, solder the loose connection, and prepare to reattach the dustcap.
To reattach a dust cap, I use a Form-A-Gasket silicon sealant, apply it under the cone, spreas it a little over the joint using the card as a putty knife, and wait for it to dry. After that, I use Krazy Glue to harden the bond of the dustcap to the cone.
I have had this happen to one of the subs in my current setup countless times, and yes, it is worth the time and money if you can't afford a new sub anytime soon.
Best of luck to you, this is a tricky job, bjut rewarding if successful.
Good old trusty plastic cards, good for anything from fixing subs, to filling in as the spare key to your crib!
louisypher on 07/10/2007 20:24:12
well the sub is old, a concept 12 inch, dual voice coil .if i remember right its an cs-12 0r something like that. it has a huge dust cover but i guess it wont fix itself so it couldnt hurt to try. will take a pic asap and post a link. i hate to lose this sub cause it really thumps an hits the lows nicely. the leads from the connects are woven in the cone but thats all i can see of them as to where they go.
louisypher on 07/10/2007 20:55:51
here are a few pics ,sorry not so good , due to reflection off of plexiglass, but i think it will give me a chance to see if i still have some patience,an if not i will get a chance to build a box for the remaining 12.lol http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/SANY0113.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/SANY0115.jpg thank you guys ,as always the best info on the net.
swez on 07/10/2007 21:56:47
To figure this out, you'll have to remove the dust cap. Once that is removed, you will see the coil, cone, pole piece and where the tinsel leads are connected to the sub cone.
Some sub makers use tiny rivets to help join the coil wires to the tinsel leads. Repair of this nature is a very delicate operation.
It is even possible that the VC is damaged and shorting out in the gap. That would explain why the sub hangs up and if you manually move the cone, it comes back to life again. (For a while)
Frankly, it might be good to take it apart and have a close look inside. You may end up replacing the sub anyway, but at least you will know the inner parts of a sub and how tight the tolerances are to make them work like they do.
A recone is an option here too. However, this usually costs more than the sub is worth. Good luck and work patiently as it may pay off. But have a backup sub plan in hand if it does not go well.
Swez
louisypher on 07/10/2007 22:30:16
i have a pair of old 6 1/2" speakers that i know are fryed so i will try on them first .but yes either way it will be good learning experience.as i said earlier at least one sub works good, so i will just build a box for it if this lead repair doesnt work.hey ..thanks again for everything !
SQLThump on 07/11/2007 05:07:09
Best of luck to you. It also loojks like you have an inverted dustcap. which can make life very frustrating.
Could also be the VC shorting out as well, as Swez mentioned. I had a POS Dual sub and the VC melted, after giving me some similar problems. I "fixed" it by taping the tinsel lead straight to the cone. A week later, it kept shorting out, and causing my sub amp fuse to blow. After replacing the amp fuse about 10 times ( I am Stubborn) i popped the sub out of the box, removed the dustcap, to find a plethora of melted and charred copper and plastic.
louisypher on 07/18/2007 23:43:52
got the dust cap off here is what i found... http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0164.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0165.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?a
ction=view¤t=SANY0169.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0162.jpg
so i dunno what else to look for to be honest. but wow such a simple deal that makes so much sound..wow! any more help or advice would be appreciated , thanks all!
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0163.jpg
action=view¤t=SANY0168.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0163.jpg
trunkisloud on 07/18/2007 23:47:40
we need your photobucket password to see these........
louisypher on 07/19/2007 00:19:27
oops sorry it should be: funknee1 hope it works
trunkisloud on 07/19/2007 00:34:37
cant tell much.....hook it up and try touchin around the tinsels to see if you can get a connection.
louisypher on 07/19/2007 00:40:54
ya it all kinda looks gooped in there but tomorrow i will try that. as well as begin work on a box for the single 12 that still works, should be fun,workin on your own stuff always is. thanks for looking though,maybe i can return the favor some time, not in this type of stuff but i have been a flooring /shower installer for over 12 yrs but hey thats for another site altogether. thanks
Replies (12)
swez on 07/10/2007 01:46:44
This sounds more like the tinsel wire has separated at the cone, under the dust cap. It loses it connection until the cone is depressed and will work for a while yes? Classic symtom of what was noted in your post.
Another thing to inspect, look at the tinsel leads as they attach to the speaker lug connectors. If one is loose, a cold solder joint or the tinsel lead is deformed, (stretched out of shape) a similar result is possible.
If the coil separated from the spider, the sub would give bass but lots of rattle too. The spider would not control the cone/voice coil tolerances and make a lot of non-musical racket.
Do you think you can safely remove the dust cover and inspect the connections from the coil to tinsel leads? This takes lots of patience and a very delicate operation to repair properly. Is the sub worth all that effort?
Swez
PS A few high quality pictures might be of some help in diagnosing the issue and the correct repair efforts.
SQLThump on 07/10/2007 03:22:07
Sounds like a tinsel lead to me too. Dust caps can be tedious, and possibly frustrating work. Reattaching them can be a real pain here.
For takinh off dust caps, I like to use a non government plastic card (definitely not your I.D. or drivers liscence, maybe a Blockbuster or Kroger card, this card will get damaged) and find a place where the dustcap might be a little weakly sealed, and slowly work the card into there. Once the card is in, try to work it around slowly in a sawing motion, but be gentle, so as not to pop the thing back out, and possibly cut yourself. (dull cuts are worse than sharp ones, and I have done this twice.)
After you get the cap off, solder the loose connection, and prepare to reattach the dustcap.
To reattach a dust cap, I use a Form-A-Gasket silicon sealant, apply it under the cone, spreas it a little over the joint using the card as a putty knife, and wait for it to dry. After that, I use Krazy Glue to harden the bond of the dustcap to the cone.
I have had this happen to one of the subs in my current setup countless times, and yes, it is worth the time and money if you can't afford a new sub anytime soon.
Best of luck to you, this is a tricky job, bjut rewarding if successful.
Good old trusty plastic cards, good for anything from fixing subs, to filling in as the spare key to your crib!
louisypher on 07/10/2007 20:24:12
well the sub is old, a concept 12 inch, dual voice coil .if i remember right its an cs-12 0r something like that. it has a huge dust cover but i guess it wont fix itself so it couldnt hurt to try. will take a pic asap and post a link. i hate to lose this sub cause it really thumps an hits the lows nicely. the leads from the connects are woven in the cone but thats all i can see of them as to where they go.
louisypher on 07/10/2007 20:55:51
here are a few pics ,sorry not so good , due to reflection off of plexiglass, but i think it will give me a chance to see if i still have some patience,an if not i will get a chance to build a box for the remaining 12.lol http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/SANY0113.jpg http://i74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/SANY0115.jpg thank you guys ,as always the best info on the net.
swez on 07/10/2007 21:56:47
To figure this out, you'll have to remove the dust cap. Once that is removed, you will see the coil, cone, pole piece and where the tinsel leads are connected to the sub cone.
Some sub makers use tiny rivets to help join the coil wires to the tinsel leads. Repair of this nature is a very delicate operation.
It is even possible that the VC is damaged and shorting out in the gap. That would explain why the sub hangs up and if you manually move the cone, it comes back to life again. (For a while)
Frankly, it might be good to take it apart and have a close look inside. You may end up replacing the sub anyway, but at least you will know the inner parts of a sub and how tight the tolerances are to make them work like they do.
A recone is an option here too. However, this usually costs more than the sub is worth. Good luck and work patiently as it may pay off. But have a backup sub plan in hand if it does not go well.
Swez
louisypher on 07/10/2007 22:30:16
i have a pair of old 6 1/2" speakers that i know are fryed so i will try on them first .but yes either way it will be good learning experience.as i said earlier at least one sub works good, so i will just build a box for it if this lead repair doesnt work.hey ..thanks again for everything !
SQLThump on 07/11/2007 05:07:09
Best of luck to you. It also loojks like you have an inverted dustcap. which can make life very frustrating.
Could also be the VC shorting out as well, as Swez mentioned. I had a POS Dual sub and the VC melted, after giving me some similar problems. I "fixed" it by taping the tinsel lead straight to the cone. A week later, it kept shorting out, and causing my sub amp fuse to blow. After replacing the amp fuse about 10 times ( I am Stubborn) i popped the sub out of the box, removed the dustcap, to find a plethora of melted and charred copper and plastic.
louisypher on 07/18/2007 23:43:52
got the dust cap off here is what i found... http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0164.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0165.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?a
ction=view¤t=SANY0169.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0162.jpg
so i dunno what else to look for to be honest. but wow such a simple deal that makes so much sound..wow! any more help or advice would be appreciated , thanks all!
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0163.jpg
action=view¤t=SANY0168.jpg
http://s74.photobucket.com/albums/i253/louisypher/?action=view¤t=SANY0163.jpg
trunkisloud on 07/18/2007 23:47:40
we need your photobucket password to see these........
louisypher on 07/19/2007 00:19:27
oops sorry it should be: funknee1 hope it works
trunkisloud on 07/19/2007 00:34:37
cant tell much.....hook it up and try touchin around the tinsels to see if you can get a connection.
louisypher on 07/19/2007 00:40:54
ya it all kinda looks gooped in there but tomorrow i will try that. as well as begin work on a box for the single 12 that still works, should be fun,workin on your own stuff always is. thanks for looking though,maybe i can return the favor some time, not in this type of stuff but i have been a flooring /shower installer for over 12 yrs but hey thats for another site altogether. thanks
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