the truck install i just did is cutting out at high volumes.
we cant get more than 1/2 output from the system before it decides to cut, then fade back in. usually happens in sets of two. then a minute later it goes at it again. THINK
background-
my first thought- he had them wire in parellel and assumed that the amp (kicker 550.3) couldnt handle a 1ohm load on the sub channel.
rewired them to a four ohm load and subs never came on MAD
HE rewired them again (i know know if its in parellel or series) and now we have the present situation.
thanx in advance
-Drew
Replies (17)
newB on 05/28/2007 01:19:52
=(
?
-Drew
swez on 05/28/2007 05:34:57
Getting a bit antzy there newB?
Hey, not familiar with that amp. Can you either get me a link or some additional info on this amp for background.
It sounds like 1 of 4 things could be going on here:
1. Subs wired too low, (Ohmic load) for this amp
2. Amp is not getting enough power from ALT/BAT
3. Amp gain settings are too high
4. A bad coil on one sub (edit added 5/29/07)
Swez
newB on 05/28/2007 13:28:14
cool. yeah. i was.
problems aggravate me and this is one i had a problem with.
last time we wired it to 4ohm i got no output.
so i think the game plan is rewire it to 4ohm and find where the connection is bad
thanx guys
-Drew
swez on 05/29/2007 12:56:57
Patience my son... Rome was not built in a day. LOL
Yes, 4 ohms should be safe for most amps in MONO Bridge mode or off 1 channel. If there is no signal to the subs off one channel or when bridged, check the manual for the proper bridging techniques. Some amps are picky and you only have one choice when bridging.
Swez
newB on 05/29/2007 18:38:43
no bridging,
its a 3 channel amp and the two 12s are right on the sub channel
the thing that bothers me is that we got no output in series, and good output with cut outs at 1ohm.
so its just confusing.
we checked the series wireing several times
-Drew
swez on 05/29/2007 20:22:23
It seems like you may have a bad voice coil on one sub. When all coils are conected in parallel, both subs will play. (Even with a bad coil)
When using series/parallel wiring, that one bad coil will not allow power to flow and this is why the subs won't play at 4 ohms. (One coil is not connected or an open coil here)
I suggest that you break out your ohmeter, remove the subs from the box and measure each coils' DC resistance. If the coil is good, you'll see a ohmic value of roughly 3.5 ohms per coil. (If these are 4 ohm DVC's) If one coil is dead, the meter will not show any value, (Open coil) or a very low value if that coil is shorted.
If you find a bad coil, (Am betting you will) or a bad wire inside the box, we'll discuss your options based on your findings.
If all coils are good on the ohms test, then one of the connecting wires or sub connectors is/are suspect.
Swez
PS What make and model subs are used here?
trunkisloud on 05/29/2007 21:37:01
sounds like a main buss-b undervolt....check the micron difibulators..
newB on 05/29/2007 23:30:33
haha ok.
and they are the ARC KAR series.
i'll run some tests.
now while doing so am i just touching red to red and black to black with the setting on the ohm signal and "20"???
-Drew
swez on 05/30/2007 07:14:45
Gee, seems like we are getting a lot of one-on-one time on the forum newB. I really enjoy teaching a willing and able student. hehe
Yes, set the ohmeter to the lowest setting above 5 ohms. Most newer DMM meters start at 20 ohms and read down to under 0.1 ohms on that setting.
1. Remove all external wires to each sub
2. Probe each coil set with ohm meter (mated Red & Black Terminals)
3. Record the values as read for each set of coils
4. That will be 2 subs tested and 4 unique voice coils
If you find a "flier" in the readings, mark that coil set with a piece of tape to ID it as failed.
FYI: Each mated coil set is marked Red and Black. If these are 4 ohm rated coil sets, expect a DC meter reading of ~3.6 ohms per coil. This is the "Res or Re" spec noted on a subs spec sheet.
Happy hunting,
Dave
Quote: " sounds like a main buss-b undervolt....check the micron difibulators.." Yep, grab you paddles and step back 'cause she's gonna blow her stacks...
newB on 05/30/2007 16:45:38
i appreaciate all the help and knowledge swez.
anything to get that extra shed of wisedom
i will keep you posted on the outcome of the dmm test later in the day.
also going to try each sub by itself on the amp. i know its the same wiring, but just as an experiment.
also going to power them with my amp in series (550rms) and see if it may be the amp.
mucho tests to do and a 1.5 cuft single ported box with "bent mdf" corners to build
pix soon of course
=P
-Drew
swez on 05/30/2007 23:15:11
Yes, please do keep the post going with updates as I see a lot of others are lurking the details too. That's a good sign and others may benefit from what is found along the way.
Wisdom & Contentment are priceless things to reach/search for. It comes slowly at times and then all of a sudden, a big blast of many small pieces of the puzzle just drop right into place. Those are the "Big Ah Ha Moments" we all savor. (A major Paradigm shift)
It's a total joy to have them happen that way, and then give them away for others to benefit as well. Have just gone through a long haul of stretch and grow opportunities and Wow... it was so worth the efforts and struggles. (If you only knew the details...)
Anyway, let us know what you find out. Hopefully it's something easy as a wiring problem and not a sub or amp issue.
Dave
newB on 05/31/2007 02:36:52
exactly.
it was one of those "OH MAN WHY DIDNT I NOTICE THAT?" moments.
i play'ed with the DMM and tested each sub and couldnt come up with anything concrete. so we took it to the local "Audio To Go" and he retested the VCs, all good.
so i realized i was wiring them using WAY more effort than i had to. i was wireing (+) (-) from amp to + and - on one terminal (same side) then using two single wires to connect + one side to + the other side, and vice versa for the (-)
turns out this was becoming a problem because the terminals were designed for MAYBE a 12ga single. but we had to fit two 12ga wires into it and it didnt have a very good connection.
so his wiring with one wire per terminal had a much better connection and it fired right up!
i also asked him if they build anything more than vented and sealed and he didnt give me a straight answer. so i think when i roll up with the Dual Chamber Tri Tune box it wil turn some heads.
also get my new TC9s tomorrow and i'll stop in there to show them what a "real mans woofer" looks like
GRIN
jk jk
wish me luck
-Drew
swez on 05/31/2007 09:26:02
I don't think you'll need luck here. This is a game of skill, knowledge and solid install practices. The only bad luck I can see... if these subs are not up to snuff from the factory and they fail due to a manufacturing or design defect.
Luck is a Hole In One for a 1st year golfer. Skill is several Hole in One shots in any major tourneyment with all kinds of pressure and money on the line. Even then, there are so many variables in play, Lady Luck does come into the equation. (Ask Tiger, Phil, Jack or Arnold) They all know how "Lady Luck" works for and against a skilled golfer.
As for Ol Swez... had only 2 Aces in my golfing days. One was while practicing and no witnesses. The second came a few years later in match play with a client. Both times were "pure strikes". Hit the ball right on the sweet spot and just said quietly... "That one might go in". Sure enough, they did!
Yes, in both cases it was a lucky day. The latter one was my best day on any golf course. Shot 33 on the back nine with 2 back to back Eagles and an Ace a few holes later. My opponent and good friend was in the hunt the whole way, until the back to back eagles were recorded. The Ace was just icing in the cake. We laughed the rest of the way in and he bought dinner and beer that night just to celebrate. We both knew I was playing "well out of my mind" that day and I freely admit to that.
Frankly, I don't believe I was a very good golfer. It's more about consistancy and lots of practice time. I had neither in the equation. I don't wish to brag or boast either. It was just one of those days where many things clicked at the right time and have the best possible outcome. But it was a day I will never forget either. I still have that ball, a certificate from that course and the score card. Someday, I will mount it for postarity... if I can find them all again. (Geez-O-Peas)
How's that for a fond memory? LOL
Dave
(The once Lucky golfer)
newB on 05/31/2007 12:18:21
very nice!
haha
ive played once and got a 100
and thats with bare clubs (3,5,7,driver,wedge,putter)
-Drew
swez on 05/31/2007 13:24:24
Actually, that's a great way to start out and not a bad score either for a one time event. Most beginners have no clue about how to hit the long sticks well. The clubs you mentioned are the most forgiving except for the driver and 3 iron. Shooting 100 on your first round tells me you have a lot of athletic ability and potential for the game.
I think my first 4-6 rounds were about 110 and dropped to the mid 90's in a matter of weeks. It was not a long course, but the greens were very small, elevated and very hard to make a wedge hold the greens. (Play em short and hope for a "Member's Bounce")
On shorter holes, (<400 yds.) Learned to put away the driver and use a 1-4 iron, depending on how tight the fairways were. I loved the 1 iron off the tee. Yes, I had to practice a lot with it, but when the timing was right, a solid 240 - 260 yds and in play was a lot better than 280+ and out in the boonies.... LOL The driver hurt my game the most when tee shots strayed into bad lies.
Yeah, it's good to remember the best shots we ever made and try to emulate that swing. But to do that on a consistant basis, one is either very talented to begin with or has to practice a lot. In your case, I'd say you have a lot of natural talent to develop. It's just a matter of time, a few good lessons and lots of practice before you'd be shooting in the 80's.
Cheers,
Swez
newB on 05/31/2007 14:56:56
hahaha i was decent at the game. did a 1week practice session over the summer and got the clubs. still go to the driving range to blow off some steam now and again but nothing to consistent.
i also ride MX and got the audio of course to blow off the stresses of handling the HS-Real world transistion.
BTW the T2 box sold 110$ shipped to Ga.
-Drew
swez on 06/2/2007 08:38:45
Cool, you made a little profit on this one. It's worth more to the right market of guys who demand a high quality sub enclosure. My guess your materials cost is about $45 -60.00/box. (Depending on the finish used)
Labor is also a key thing to consider too. How many hours does it really take to fabricate and finish a box of this calibur? (My guess is close to 5-6 hours of real work... not counting glue curing time)
If you can find a market that is willing to pay say $200.00 + S/H per box, this can be very profitable doing a few at a time. However, if the market is more like $125-150.00 per box, making jigs and templates for common panels will save time and lower your fabrication costs. Here, you might consider make several kits, (fab the panels and store them until needed) at one time and just assemble them when orders come in.
You could probably sell them in kits and let buyers assemble them on their own too. A set of detailed instructions would be good and even supply all the hardware and glue for each kit. That would be a real time saver and make you a nice profit as well, w/o all the assembly work.
Comments?
Swez
we cant get more than 1/2 output from the system before it decides to cut, then fade back in. usually happens in sets of two. then a minute later it goes at it again. THINK
background-
my first thought- he had them wire in parellel and assumed that the amp (kicker 550.3) couldnt handle a 1ohm load on the sub channel.
rewired them to a four ohm load and subs never came on MAD
HE rewired them again (i know know if its in parellel or series) and now we have the present situation.
thanx in advance
-Drew
Replies (17)
newB on 05/28/2007 01:19:52
=(
?
-Drew
swez on 05/28/2007 05:34:57
Getting a bit antzy there newB?
Hey, not familiar with that amp. Can you either get me a link or some additional info on this amp for background.
It sounds like 1 of 4 things could be going on here:
1. Subs wired too low, (Ohmic load) for this amp
2. Amp is not getting enough power from ALT/BAT
3. Amp gain settings are too high
4. A bad coil on one sub (edit added 5/29/07)
Swez
newB on 05/28/2007 13:28:14
cool. yeah. i was.
problems aggravate me and this is one i had a problem with.
last time we wired it to 4ohm i got no output.
so i think the game plan is rewire it to 4ohm and find where the connection is bad
thanx guys
-Drew
swez on 05/29/2007 12:56:57
Patience my son... Rome was not built in a day. LOL
Yes, 4 ohms should be safe for most amps in MONO Bridge mode or off 1 channel. If there is no signal to the subs off one channel or when bridged, check the manual for the proper bridging techniques. Some amps are picky and you only have one choice when bridging.
Swez
newB on 05/29/2007 18:38:43
no bridging,
its a 3 channel amp and the two 12s are right on the sub channel
the thing that bothers me is that we got no output in series, and good output with cut outs at 1ohm.
so its just confusing.
we checked the series wireing several times
-Drew
swez on 05/29/2007 20:22:23
It seems like you may have a bad voice coil on one sub. When all coils are conected in parallel, both subs will play. (Even with a bad coil)
When using series/parallel wiring, that one bad coil will not allow power to flow and this is why the subs won't play at 4 ohms. (One coil is not connected or an open coil here)
I suggest that you break out your ohmeter, remove the subs from the box and measure each coils' DC resistance. If the coil is good, you'll see a ohmic value of roughly 3.5 ohms per coil. (If these are 4 ohm DVC's) If one coil is dead, the meter will not show any value, (Open coil) or a very low value if that coil is shorted.
If you find a bad coil, (Am betting you will) or a bad wire inside the box, we'll discuss your options based on your findings.
If all coils are good on the ohms test, then one of the connecting wires or sub connectors is/are suspect.
Swez
PS What make and model subs are used here?
trunkisloud on 05/29/2007 21:37:01
sounds like a main buss-b undervolt....check the micron difibulators..
newB on 05/29/2007 23:30:33
haha ok.
and they are the ARC KAR series.
i'll run some tests.
now while doing so am i just touching red to red and black to black with the setting on the ohm signal and "20"???
-Drew
swez on 05/30/2007 07:14:45
Gee, seems like we are getting a lot of one-on-one time on the forum newB. I really enjoy teaching a willing and able student. hehe
Yes, set the ohmeter to the lowest setting above 5 ohms. Most newer DMM meters start at 20 ohms and read down to under 0.1 ohms on that setting.
1. Remove all external wires to each sub
2. Probe each coil set with ohm meter (mated Red & Black Terminals)
3. Record the values as read for each set of coils
4. That will be 2 subs tested and 4 unique voice coils
If you find a "flier" in the readings, mark that coil set with a piece of tape to ID it as failed.
FYI: Each mated coil set is marked Red and Black. If these are 4 ohm rated coil sets, expect a DC meter reading of ~3.6 ohms per coil. This is the "Res or Re" spec noted on a subs spec sheet.
Happy hunting,
Dave
Quote: " sounds like a main buss-b undervolt....check the micron difibulators.." Yep, grab you paddles and step back 'cause she's gonna blow her stacks...
newB on 05/30/2007 16:45:38
i appreaciate all the help and knowledge swez.
anything to get that extra shed of wisedom
i will keep you posted on the outcome of the dmm test later in the day.
also going to try each sub by itself on the amp. i know its the same wiring, but just as an experiment.
also going to power them with my amp in series (550rms) and see if it may be the amp.
mucho tests to do and a 1.5 cuft single ported box with "bent mdf" corners to build
pix soon of course
=P
-Drew
swez on 05/30/2007 23:15:11
Yes, please do keep the post going with updates as I see a lot of others are lurking the details too. That's a good sign and others may benefit from what is found along the way.
Wisdom & Contentment are priceless things to reach/search for. It comes slowly at times and then all of a sudden, a big blast of many small pieces of the puzzle just drop right into place. Those are the "Big Ah Ha Moments" we all savor. (A major Paradigm shift)
It's a total joy to have them happen that way, and then give them away for others to benefit as well. Have just gone through a long haul of stretch and grow opportunities and Wow... it was so worth the efforts and struggles. (If you only knew the details...)
Anyway, let us know what you find out. Hopefully it's something easy as a wiring problem and not a sub or amp issue.
Dave
newB on 05/31/2007 02:36:52
exactly.
it was one of those "OH MAN WHY DIDNT I NOTICE THAT?" moments.
i play'ed with the DMM and tested each sub and couldnt come up with anything concrete. so we took it to the local "Audio To Go" and he retested the VCs, all good.
so i realized i was wiring them using WAY more effort than i had to. i was wireing (+) (-) from amp to + and - on one terminal (same side) then using two single wires to connect + one side to + the other side, and vice versa for the (-)
turns out this was becoming a problem because the terminals were designed for MAYBE a 12ga single. but we had to fit two 12ga wires into it and it didnt have a very good connection.
so his wiring with one wire per terminal had a much better connection and it fired right up!
i also asked him if they build anything more than vented and sealed and he didnt give me a straight answer. so i think when i roll up with the Dual Chamber Tri Tune box it wil turn some heads.
also get my new TC9s tomorrow and i'll stop in there to show them what a "real mans woofer" looks like
GRIN
jk jk
wish me luck
-Drew
swez on 05/31/2007 09:26:02
I don't think you'll need luck here. This is a game of skill, knowledge and solid install practices. The only bad luck I can see... if these subs are not up to snuff from the factory and they fail due to a manufacturing or design defect.
Luck is a Hole In One for a 1st year golfer. Skill is several Hole in One shots in any major tourneyment with all kinds of pressure and money on the line. Even then, there are so many variables in play, Lady Luck does come into the equation. (Ask Tiger, Phil, Jack or Arnold) They all know how "Lady Luck" works for and against a skilled golfer.
As for Ol Swez... had only 2 Aces in my golfing days. One was while practicing and no witnesses. The second came a few years later in match play with a client. Both times were "pure strikes". Hit the ball right on the sweet spot and just said quietly... "That one might go in". Sure enough, they did!
Yes, in both cases it was a lucky day. The latter one was my best day on any golf course. Shot 33 on the back nine with 2 back to back Eagles and an Ace a few holes later. My opponent and good friend was in the hunt the whole way, until the back to back eagles were recorded. The Ace was just icing in the cake. We laughed the rest of the way in and he bought dinner and beer that night just to celebrate. We both knew I was playing "well out of my mind" that day and I freely admit to that.
Frankly, I don't believe I was a very good golfer. It's more about consistancy and lots of practice time. I had neither in the equation. I don't wish to brag or boast either. It was just one of those days where many things clicked at the right time and have the best possible outcome. But it was a day I will never forget either. I still have that ball, a certificate from that course and the score card. Someday, I will mount it for postarity... if I can find them all again. (Geez-O-Peas)
How's that for a fond memory? LOL
Dave
(The once Lucky golfer)
newB on 05/31/2007 12:18:21
very nice!
haha
ive played once and got a 100
and thats with bare clubs (3,5,7,driver,wedge,putter)
-Drew
swez on 05/31/2007 13:24:24
Actually, that's a great way to start out and not a bad score either for a one time event. Most beginners have no clue about how to hit the long sticks well. The clubs you mentioned are the most forgiving except for the driver and 3 iron. Shooting 100 on your first round tells me you have a lot of athletic ability and potential for the game.
I think my first 4-6 rounds were about 110 and dropped to the mid 90's in a matter of weeks. It was not a long course, but the greens were very small, elevated and very hard to make a wedge hold the greens. (Play em short and hope for a "Member's Bounce")
On shorter holes, (<400 yds.) Learned to put away the driver and use a 1-4 iron, depending on how tight the fairways were. I loved the 1 iron off the tee. Yes, I had to practice a lot with it, but when the timing was right, a solid 240 - 260 yds and in play was a lot better than 280+ and out in the boonies.... LOL The driver hurt my game the most when tee shots strayed into bad lies.
Yeah, it's good to remember the best shots we ever made and try to emulate that swing. But to do that on a consistant basis, one is either very talented to begin with or has to practice a lot. In your case, I'd say you have a lot of natural talent to develop. It's just a matter of time, a few good lessons and lots of practice before you'd be shooting in the 80's.
Cheers,
Swez
newB on 05/31/2007 14:56:56
hahaha i was decent at the game. did a 1week practice session over the summer and got the clubs. still go to the driving range to blow off some steam now and again but nothing to consistent.
i also ride MX and got the audio of course to blow off the stresses of handling the HS-Real world transistion.
BTW the T2 box sold 110$ shipped to Ga.
-Drew
swez on 06/2/2007 08:38:45
Cool, you made a little profit on this one. It's worth more to the right market of guys who demand a high quality sub enclosure. My guess your materials cost is about $45 -60.00/box. (Depending on the finish used)
Labor is also a key thing to consider too. How many hours does it really take to fabricate and finish a box of this calibur? (My guess is close to 5-6 hours of real work... not counting glue curing time)
If you can find a market that is willing to pay say $200.00 + S/H per box, this can be very profitable doing a few at a time. However, if the market is more like $125-150.00 per box, making jigs and templates for common panels will save time and lower your fabrication costs. Here, you might consider make several kits, (fab the panels and store them until needed) at one time and just assemble them when orders come in.
You could probably sell them in kits and let buyers assemble them on their own too. A set of detailed instructions would be good and even supply all the hardware and glue for each kit. That would be a real time saver and make you a nice profit as well, w/o all the assembly work.
Comments?
Swez
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