Yesterday Im riddin along and my subs shut off, so when I got home I check all the connections and everything looked good. No protect light on or anything. So when i turned the subs back on all I could hear was a faint rattle. I pulled the subs out of the box no rips or tears in it. I hooked them back up and all i got was that "paper rattle" sound.
DOSE THIS MEAN THERE BLOWN!!!!!!
Heres what Im workin with........
2 Audiobahn AW1205N 12" Ultra Excursion Subwoofer
http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/pages/woofers.html
1000W RMS Power Handling
2000W Max Power Handling
Dual 2 Ohm Voice Coils
Frequency Response: 23Hz - 700Hz
Efficiency: 92.9dB
Voice Coil: 3" Dual 2 Ohm
1 Ohm Mono or 4 Ohm Mono or 2 Ohm Stereo Operation
PHAT 2” Foam Surround
DUAL 2 Ohm VOICE COIL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fusion PowerPlant Monoblock Amplifier "PP-AM20001"
http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/products.php?region=3&action=view&product_id=289
Max Power Rating: 2000 Watts
Max Current: 100A
465 Watts RMS x 1 Channel @ 4 Ohms and 1% THD+N
750 Watts RMS x 1 Channel @ 2 Ohms and 1% THD+N
1150 Watts RMS x 1 Channel @ 1 Ohms and 1% THD+N
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had the subs ran at 1 ohms.
WHAT WENT WRONG???????????
Replies (10)
swez on 05/25/2007 09:41:25
Hummm, this is a tough call. There are a few things you can check for and see what's really gone kaputz here:
1. Look at/feel the spider to voice coil connection joint. These can fracture and sound just like what you mentioned. (Same noise and very low output of bass) Basically, farting sub noises.
2. Look closely at the dust caps and see if they have come loose. This too is common and can be repaired with patience. (The subs will still deliver pretty good SPL, but sound awful with the buzzing/rattling)
Note: Bahn subs are NOT Competition quality gear. Their amps are also less than reliable for the price. We have seen many Bahn amps and sub complaints here at CK over the years. Some are abuse related, but many are just poor reliability issues. You're not alone on this one either.
Tell more about the sub enclosure used for these subs OK? A poorly designed ported or Bandpass box will often stress less robust subs to failure as noted here. Say more...
Swez
Jo7Gle on 05/25/2007 10:53:08
I know what you mean with the dust cover Ive fixed a couple of them my self in the past, so I no thats not it. Its not putting any SPL out at all but that rattle.
Now on the enclosure Ive always had my doubts.
The box is a RIT brand box.
DIM:W = 30.5in, D = 14in at top, 16.5in at bottom, H = 13
It has a divider to seperate the subs.
Made with 3/4in board
When i first got it it was not ported so I did some reading on my subs and found that it says to run them in a ported box, so I added 3 in ( 7in long) port to each side.
newB on 05/25/2007 15:56:13
that is really a shot in the dark.
youve dropped the net internal volume the sub is seeing and added the port without calculating what it will be tuned to.
(as far as i can tell)
i dont have my program to guess-timate where it is tuned but im sure you can be much more accurate with that than you are.
are your subs still secure against the box?
ive had rattle come from purely the sub being loose and rattle'n against the box.
granted this doesnt account for the loss of power it might be a source of the extra noise
-Drew
30Hertz on 05/25/2007 16:48:28
When you ported the box you added a single 3" x 7" port to each chamber correct? Did u calculate the given port tuning frequency when you did this? My bet is its tuned pretty high. Did you set the subsonic filter on the amplifier to filter out frequencies below the tuning?
My bet is either A. possible port noise (if it sounds like a fluttering noise this might be it)
B. youve got a tear in the spider where the voice coil connects. Try moving the cone up and town while inspecting the voice coil/ spider connection to see if theres any tears.
C. dust cap
check it out and let us know, also plz respond with the information I requested at the top of my post.
-30
swez on 05/25/2007 22:58:57
That makes a lot of sense 30... if the box was not mapped with the ports installed and the PTF , (Port Tuning Frequency) went way up, w/o knowing the PTF and setting the SSF properly, that's enough to wipe out even a stout set of subs.
My bet is either the coils separated from the cone or the spider separated from the voice coil bobbin.
If you can, take a very close look at the segment of spider that is often epoxied to the coil bobbin assy. There a good chance it separated and the glue joint failed. I have repaired a few of these failures, but it takes patience, a good eye and a steady hand to get them back in place and re-epoxy the damaged joint.
If the bobbin separated from the cone, this usually gives a lot of mechanical noise as the coils wang around in the gap w/o any support at all. Depending on the damage, the sub may need to be reconed professionally.
Swez
Jo7Gle on 05/27/2007 13:31:54
So.. I took my subs up to the local audio shop and the guy there said I fried my voice coils. I took a closer look at the spider and it looked good. Inside the caseing I looked at the bottom half of the spider and where the wires come trough seen that 1 wire was completly brunt out. Im guessing this is part of the voice coil?
What I dont understand is that both subs fried at the same time???
Yes, I put one port hole in each chamber. Im still a "rookie" on this PTF and SSF I know very little about it. ( Im learning)
Here is the link that I got all my info about the ports from.
http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/images/tech/2005/boxParams/AW05N_box_specs.pdf
So Im taking there is nothing I can do?????
30Hertz on 05/27/2007 14:33:50
My bet is you fried the coils from porting your box and not filtering out the frequencies below the port tuning.
Theres nothing you can do now except
A. Recone it (if audiobahn even does such a thing)
or
B. Buy new woofers and set everything up right.
IMO Audiobahn isnt worth the phone call to ask if they recone, or the cash to recone it.
Buy some different woofers. Let us know a budget and we can help you find some drivers that fit the bill.
-30
Jo7Gle on 05/27/2007 15:10:05
How can I learn more on filtering and what to do right. so the next subs I dont do the same thing. I still dont get why all of a sudden both sub fried.
Since my amp is fusion and I can get really good deals on FUSION products I was looking at the Fusion NV-SW12. I can get them around $200 each. GOOD DEAL????
heres the link for the subs.
http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/products.php?region=3&action=view&product_id=299
heres the link to my amp.
http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/products.php?region=3&action=view&product_id=289
So what do you guys think??? What do you think of Fusion's products? If these sub are what I go with can anyone help me out on tryin to find or build the right box for them. Or..can I do something with my old one. (the specs are at the top)
swez on 05/27/2007 18:27:13
From what I see here, these are 1 ohm DVC subs, (0.5 or 2 ohms/sub depending on wiring scheme used) and each sub is rated at 1000 watts RMS. (Pretty strong subs) The price is very reasonable for subs of this power rating too.
Looking at the VAS specs, this sub will probably work best in compact SPL enclosures. If you buy them, make sure you find out the specs for proper enclosures "Fusion" recommends. If you want to make your own sub enclosure for them, we can help there too.
If you think the present box is still usable, we'll need some idimensions of this box and re-calculate the best way to use it ported or sealed. We'll need the Height, Depth, Width and board thickness figures and more details on the ports that were added. It may be usable for your Fusion subs, but again, let's see what Fusion recommends for the subs you are looking at now.
If using 2 of these subs wired for 1 ohm, each sub will get about 550 watts RMS each. That's fine and this will let your subs work hard, but not overly hard. (Abusively hard that is)
Fried coils on the Bahns huh? This is often a box mismatch issue. When subs are ported but the Sub Sonic Filter is not set to match port tuning, the cones "defibrulate wildly" below PTF and build up excess heat and fry the coils. (Self-inflicted wound here... ouch) That makes total sense here with the details mentioned before. Adding those ports, killed these subs. (Inadequate venting to cool them properly)
Swez
Jo7Gle on 05/28/2007 09:42:46
Thanks Swez, on the advice. I think Im going to go with these Fusions. I can defferently use your guys help with this box issue.
The box is a RIT brand box.
DIM:W = 30.5in, D = 14in at top, 16.5in at bottom, H = 13
It has a divider to seperate the subs.
Made with 3/4in board
added 3in x 7in ports to each chamber.
DOSE THIS MEAN THERE BLOWN!!!!!!
Heres what Im workin with........
2 Audiobahn AW1205N 12" Ultra Excursion Subwoofer
http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/pages/woofers.html
1000W RMS Power Handling
2000W Max Power Handling
Dual 2 Ohm Voice Coils
Frequency Response: 23Hz - 700Hz
Efficiency: 92.9dB
Voice Coil: 3" Dual 2 Ohm
1 Ohm Mono or 4 Ohm Mono or 2 Ohm Stereo Operation
PHAT 2” Foam Surround
DUAL 2 Ohm VOICE COIL
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Fusion PowerPlant Monoblock Amplifier "PP-AM20001"
http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/products.php?region=3&action=view&product_id=289
Max Power Rating: 2000 Watts
Max Current: 100A
465 Watts RMS x 1 Channel @ 4 Ohms and 1% THD+N
750 Watts RMS x 1 Channel @ 2 Ohms and 1% THD+N
1150 Watts RMS x 1 Channel @ 1 Ohms and 1% THD+N
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I had the subs ran at 1 ohms.
WHAT WENT WRONG???????????
Replies (10)
swez on 05/25/2007 09:41:25
Hummm, this is a tough call. There are a few things you can check for and see what's really gone kaputz here:
1. Look at/feel the spider to voice coil connection joint. These can fracture and sound just like what you mentioned. (Same noise and very low output of bass) Basically, farting sub noises.
2. Look closely at the dust caps and see if they have come loose. This too is common and can be repaired with patience. (The subs will still deliver pretty good SPL, but sound awful with the buzzing/rattling)
Note: Bahn subs are NOT Competition quality gear. Their amps are also less than reliable for the price. We have seen many Bahn amps and sub complaints here at CK over the years. Some are abuse related, but many are just poor reliability issues. You're not alone on this one either.
Tell more about the sub enclosure used for these subs OK? A poorly designed ported or Bandpass box will often stress less robust subs to failure as noted here. Say more...
Swez
Jo7Gle on 05/25/2007 10:53:08
I know what you mean with the dust cover Ive fixed a couple of them my self in the past, so I no thats not it. Its not putting any SPL out at all but that rattle.
Now on the enclosure Ive always had my doubts.
The box is a RIT brand box.
DIM:W = 30.5in, D = 14in at top, 16.5in at bottom, H = 13
It has a divider to seperate the subs.
Made with 3/4in board
When i first got it it was not ported so I did some reading on my subs and found that it says to run them in a ported box, so I added 3 in ( 7in long) port to each side.
newB on 05/25/2007 15:56:13
that is really a shot in the dark.
youve dropped the net internal volume the sub is seeing and added the port without calculating what it will be tuned to.
(as far as i can tell)
i dont have my program to guess-timate where it is tuned but im sure you can be much more accurate with that than you are.
are your subs still secure against the box?
ive had rattle come from purely the sub being loose and rattle'n against the box.
granted this doesnt account for the loss of power it might be a source of the extra noise
-Drew
30Hertz on 05/25/2007 16:48:28
When you ported the box you added a single 3" x 7" port to each chamber correct? Did u calculate the given port tuning frequency when you did this? My bet is its tuned pretty high. Did you set the subsonic filter on the amplifier to filter out frequencies below the tuning?
My bet is either A. possible port noise (if it sounds like a fluttering noise this might be it)
B. youve got a tear in the spider where the voice coil connects. Try moving the cone up and town while inspecting the voice coil/ spider connection to see if theres any tears.
C. dust cap
check it out and let us know, also plz respond with the information I requested at the top of my post.
-30
swez on 05/25/2007 22:58:57
That makes a lot of sense 30... if the box was not mapped with the ports installed and the PTF , (Port Tuning Frequency) went way up, w/o knowing the PTF and setting the SSF properly, that's enough to wipe out even a stout set of subs.
My bet is either the coils separated from the cone or the spider separated from the voice coil bobbin.
If you can, take a very close look at the segment of spider that is often epoxied to the coil bobbin assy. There a good chance it separated and the glue joint failed. I have repaired a few of these failures, but it takes patience, a good eye and a steady hand to get them back in place and re-epoxy the damaged joint.
If the bobbin separated from the cone, this usually gives a lot of mechanical noise as the coils wang around in the gap w/o any support at all. Depending on the damage, the sub may need to be reconed professionally.
Swez
Jo7Gle on 05/27/2007 13:31:54
So.. I took my subs up to the local audio shop and the guy there said I fried my voice coils. I took a closer look at the spider and it looked good. Inside the caseing I looked at the bottom half of the spider and where the wires come trough seen that 1 wire was completly brunt out. Im guessing this is part of the voice coil?
What I dont understand is that both subs fried at the same time???
Yes, I put one port hole in each chamber. Im still a "rookie" on this PTF and SSF I know very little about it. ( Im learning)
Here is the link that I got all my info about the ports from.
http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/images/tech/2005/boxParams/AW05N_box_specs.pdf
So Im taking there is nothing I can do?????
30Hertz on 05/27/2007 14:33:50
My bet is you fried the coils from porting your box and not filtering out the frequencies below the port tuning.
Theres nothing you can do now except
A. Recone it (if audiobahn even does such a thing)
or
B. Buy new woofers and set everything up right.
IMO Audiobahn isnt worth the phone call to ask if they recone, or the cash to recone it.
Buy some different woofers. Let us know a budget and we can help you find some drivers that fit the bill.
-30
Jo7Gle on 05/27/2007 15:10:05
How can I learn more on filtering and what to do right. so the next subs I dont do the same thing. I still dont get why all of a sudden both sub fried.
Since my amp is fusion and I can get really good deals on FUSION products I was looking at the Fusion NV-SW12. I can get them around $200 each. GOOD DEAL????
heres the link for the subs.
http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/products.php?region=3&action=view&product_id=299
heres the link to my amp.
http://www.fusioncaraudio.com/products.php?region=3&action=view&product_id=289
So what do you guys think??? What do you think of Fusion's products? If these sub are what I go with can anyone help me out on tryin to find or build the right box for them. Or..can I do something with my old one. (the specs are at the top)
swez on 05/27/2007 18:27:13
From what I see here, these are 1 ohm DVC subs, (0.5 or 2 ohms/sub depending on wiring scheme used) and each sub is rated at 1000 watts RMS. (Pretty strong subs) The price is very reasonable for subs of this power rating too.
Looking at the VAS specs, this sub will probably work best in compact SPL enclosures. If you buy them, make sure you find out the specs for proper enclosures "Fusion" recommends. If you want to make your own sub enclosure for them, we can help there too.
If you think the present box is still usable, we'll need some idimensions of this box and re-calculate the best way to use it ported or sealed. We'll need the Height, Depth, Width and board thickness figures and more details on the ports that were added. It may be usable for your Fusion subs, but again, let's see what Fusion recommends for the subs you are looking at now.
If using 2 of these subs wired for 1 ohm, each sub will get about 550 watts RMS each. That's fine and this will let your subs work hard, but not overly hard. (Abusively hard that is)
Fried coils on the Bahns huh? This is often a box mismatch issue. When subs are ported but the Sub Sonic Filter is not set to match port tuning, the cones "defibrulate wildly" below PTF and build up excess heat and fry the coils. (Self-inflicted wound here... ouch) That makes total sense here with the details mentioned before. Adding those ports, killed these subs. (Inadequate venting to cool them properly)
Swez
Jo7Gle on 05/28/2007 09:42:46
Thanks Swez, on the advice. I think Im going to go with these Fusions. I can defferently use your guys help with this box issue.
The box is a RIT brand box.
DIM:W = 30.5in, D = 14in at top, 16.5in at bottom, H = 13
It has a divider to seperate the subs.
Made with 3/4in board
added 3in x 7in ports to each chamber.
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
