I'm still a relative beginner at this, but I'm getting better. I just don't have the experience with the different brands and setups that the rest of you do. The target is my 300ZX turbo 2 seater, the budget is undetermined, but I figure $500-$700 (retail) for a set of speakers is doable. Amps and a single sub at a comperable quality.
I already have the amps picked out, as strange as it may be to pick them first. I recently played around with the new Rockford line at an audio shop near work, and I fell in love. They are small, pack a big punch, and have incredible cooling. Perfect for a limited-space application (I like to take the t-tops off alot, so they go in the back hatch). If you know any of comperable size I'll check em out.
I do not need a thousand watt monster sub in this little car. I figure 250ish will be fine, since I like to hear music instead of just bass. I will never crank the volume for contests or anything. Anybody can buy gear from Best Buy and rattle windows, but to put up with a system on a 12 hour road trip and getting antsy for the drive back home, is something entirely different, and that's what I want. My life revolves around my cars.
I've heard good things about the Pioneer TS-SW1241D subwoofer, and with 3 1/4" mounting depth and small airspace needed, sounds like a real match. But I have no idea how it sounds, and won't have that ability for quite some time.
I'll have to do some measuring, but I think I'll have the room for a 2 cubic foot box, with some creative building. I could also utilize the space opposite the spare tire, about 1.5 cubic feet.
The deck I'm sorta settled on too, it's a Pioneer Premier DEH-P690UB. The USB jack is VERY appealing, as I can connect any MP3 device, phone cord (for charging), and even flash sticks. The cord is long enough to install into the center console for easy access and ultra-sneakiness.
If any of you have some feedback or suggestions, I am very open.
-Gary
Replies (28)
swez on 05/20/2007 09:03:56
Seems like you know what the game is well enough Gary. We typically call this an SQ install. (High quality audio, not too bass heavy)
Do you know what the stock speaker sizes are and where they are located in this vehicle?
Rockford amps are a solid choice and will do the job well. Just plan to do a little careful shopping as RF prices tend to be higher than other solid brands.
As for your subwoofer, indeed... consider a small sealed enclosure, a single 10 or 12" sub for tight, clean bass and enough power handling to match the amp used. A solid 250 - 300 watts RMS from a Class D amp would be a very good choice here. Very easy to find a good sub that will fit in a 0.75 - 1.0 cf enclosure too. The mentioned Pioneer sub is a good choice, depending on the amp used. There are many great subs out there to choose from and many are fine in compact enclosures.
As for your speakers, consider amping them externally with 50-75 watts RMS per channel. The extra RMS power really brings good speakers to life, more than any HU power amp could. (22 watts RMS/ch is typ.) As long as you have room for 5.25" speakers or larger, good Midbass performance comes with adequate power for them to move the cones. (good excursion characteristics) May I suggest Infinity or JBL here? Component type speakers in front, Coaxials in the rear. The newer 2 ohm speakers are neat as you can use a moderate power amp to get them up to any level you wish and remain very clean and accurate.
The HU you mentioned has some very good features to expand on. (I-Pod, MP3 player and Sat Radio ready too) The Easy EQ features are good and easy to use as well. Solid choice here.
Based on your feedback, we can help you assemble a very nice package here. Say more about your preferences and info on the stock speakers in this car. From there, we can point you in a direction that is sure to please.
Swez
PS Welcome to CK! Are you planning to do the install work yourself or have it done by a Pro installer?
Victor on 05/20/2007 10:07:42
If ure lookin for an audiophile grade SQ system... Pioneer , JBL and infinity etc are out... pick on something like CDT, Polk, Focal, Rainbow, Diamond, Dynaudio, etc...for component speakers and subs..
While selecting amps, see to it that the THD levels are low, for cleaner signal...
for SQ systems , a decent headroom is always recommended.. so if your speakers are rated at 50wrms, 4 ohms, then matching them with an amp that gives out 75wrms@ 4ohms will give enough headroom for very clean sound...
most amps have tend to exhibit more THD at higher volumes. so a 50wrms amps when it ( ideally) delivers 50wrms will show a lot of distortion almost more than 10% THD.. which is a lot..
having a larger amp allows us to feed a cleaner 50wrms to the speakers..
Look for reputed manufacturers.
The Pioneer Premier HU u have chosen is a very nice HU.. you may want to look at a higher model if you want all the liberty to do very minute tweaking with the sound..
you got a good budget on hand.. JBL, Infinity and other parallel brands can make very very good SQL systems for a decent price, but when you want a SQ system and also have a better budget then why not look at high-end audiophile grade products....
Victor...
Welcome to CK....COFFEE
30Hertz on 05/20/2007 13:16:24
Just for clarification, are we looking at $500-$700 for the whole system? Or just for the component speakers? If your looking into an SQ based system prices can start adding up quick (as can SPL or anything really) so the more we know about the budget the better. (Maybe its just me tho)
If your on a low-mid budget, I'd reccomend going with infinity kappa perfect component speakers (I dont know your stock speaker sizes). I've personally owned these speakers and I was very happy with the performance they gave for the price. I've also installed them into a customers car before and he was very pleased with them also.
However, if you do have a higher budget, I'd reccomend going with Diamond Audio D6 components. I've owned two pairs of these and have fallen in love with their quality, style and sound. They are a bit more expensive (around $250 a pair through woofersetc.com) but IMO the price warrents the performance.
Depending on your budget again, I'd suggest going with maybe a single 12", or 10" woofer that is around 250-400watts RMS. This should keep the enclosure size down and provide the low end extension and some punch when needed. I ran a single 8" JL Audio W7 with a JL Audio 250/1 in my Toyota Tacoma and was very pleased with the well rounded sound that it produced. Prices vary as well in this catagory. I've personally used RF in the past and they worked fine. I haven't used RF in about 4-5 years so I cant really commet on them. Check out JL Audio, Diamind Audio (the D6 subs and amps are the same quality of the Components), Stereo Integrity, Fi Car Audio and some others. There are more but I'm having a brain fart at the moment.
Do not forget to get the proper wire and some good RCAs. I've got the Knukoncepts (www.knukoncepts.com) eKs RCAs (i think thats the model) at $80 a pop but I'll tell you what, the build quality on these are amazing. I'd also reccomend Knukoncepts for all your wiring. Bill is a great guy and has very good products and prices. If you ever need any questions answered he's the one to get a hold of.
Welcome to CK... COFFEE
swez on 05/20/2007 13:19:52
In many choices, I would agree with you Victor. All brands mentioned are top notch SQ speakers. It's really a matter of preferences here and your budget. What can I say... I happen to have been weened on JBL and Polk's for many years and now like the Infinity sound as well. Figures huh?
If your budget is fat, look at Diamonds, Dynaudio and Focal. They do like power however. So plan on a solid amp to power them if you go in that direction. If possible, go to a few high end Car Audio Salons and demo your favorite music on what they have. They won't sound the same in a vehicle, but the general characteristics are there and discernable.
I looked up the speakers recommended for your car. Looks like 6.5" in front doors and rear panels too. That will give you plenty of nice options and solid midbass too.
Swez
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 14:12:39
Thanks for the welcome. I was a somewhat active member a year ago until work took over, but I still browsed every once in a while.
I was thinking about the Infinity Perfect series, among others, but I know they don't have near the quality output as the higher priced components. I briefly got to listen to some Perfects a while back and liked the sound, but the time with them was just too short to really judge them.
The stock speaker sizes are 6.5", but I plan on eventually fiberglassing some kick pods in, so I can get by with adapters or spacers now. I will be doing the entire install, setup, and tuning. Stock locations are in the door and on top of the rear strut towers slightly angled into the sitting area.
The amplifiers I was looking at the other day are (for a typical 2-4ohm sub):
Rockford T400-4
I chose a 4 channel in case I need some rear fill, and seeing as it's only a few dollars more than a 2 channel, I figure it's a good idea.
Rockford T500-1bd
I could also bridge a Rockford T400-2 for the sub.
I have been considering the CDT HD-642's and the SQ-10. But with those I'd have to step up the amps, and I'm not sure what to go with.
-Gary
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 14:19:30
And the budget is pretty healthy, I figured the $500-$700 JUST for the components. Maybe another grand for the amps, maybe $300 on a sub. Keep in mind these are the MSRP prices. In actuality I plan on spending between $1.2k-$1.7k. With the good websites and waiting for deals, I figure on a nice system with that much cash.
-Gary
30Hertz on 05/20/2007 16:08:19
You've got a good budget from what it sounds like =).
I can recommend the CDT SQ-12. I personally own the woofer and am happy with its performance. It hits clean, precise and doesnt require much ^ft for an enclosure. I've had mine in for probably a little over a month now.
You might also want to check out the Fi 12" Q series subs. Their SQ based.
at work, will add more later
jamesp on 05/20/2007 17:29:48
Grdevs24zero..Justa heads up on the Rockford amps. I bought an RF 450.4 4 channel amp then stumbled onto this site for some install help. Swez and others steered me in the right direction and I have, in my opinion, a very nice sounding SQL system without a ton of money invested in it.
Shop for Rockford amps..I found the 450.4 for around $200.00 delivered.
For subs I got a RF 600.1BD. Minimum of 600 watts RMS at 2 Ohms and they are still available at this price online for about $ 220.00 shipped.Be careful here, many places sell these for $299.00 and up.
Front stage Infinity Kappa 670 series 2 Ohm components (6x8's) for about $155.oo but there arent too many places selling them for this price.
In the rear a pair of Rockford Fosgate dual tweeter Punch components. I paid close to retail for these from a local aucio store and had them up front first. Dont be afraid of these components. They hit the mids very hard and cleanly. The tweets sound good with one in the woofer and one about 6" away, They have a very versitile mounting system but have big magnets and had to be shimmed out to clear the windows. Cost $250.00 can be bought for a little more than half of that.
Finally for the BUMP I bought an Alpine 12" type R and a sealed box online for leee than $200.00 . After installing all of this I decided to replace the stock head unit and found an Eclipse CD5000 for about $250.00 delivered. I considered this unit from Crutchfield a few months ago and it was $549,00 there.
I think that I did pretty good money and sound wise..If not for this place, Club Knowlege, there is no telling what kind of equipment I would have bought. I would of eventually ended up with something decent but would have probably ended up buying everything 3 times. I originally intended to just replace my factory factory speakers and add some bass. I did that and became interested in car audio and had to dump the 4 speakers and powered sub that I started with back in December.
Another note: the 2 RF amps that I have seem to do a very good job and they do not get hot at all. I am not driving them at top volume but do crank it up some and so far these amps barely get warm. Looking around at some car audio sites a lot of people talk bad about the new Rf amps but I feel like they are well made in Arizona I believe. The stock charging system with a big battery in my F-150 Lariat 4x4 handles this system well. I added a satellite Sirius tuner this weekend and I think Im going to really like it too.
I spent about$1500.00 total, wiring, didtribution blocks, RCA's and everything which is not bad considering that an article in last months Car Audio and Electronics had a shop put together 3 systems, a budget, mid price point and a fancy audio/video system. In the buget system they used the same 4 channel amp I have, an RF 450.4, kept the stock speakers wiring them to 2 Ohms, added a single 10" JL (mid price point for JL) sub and called this a $3500.00 entry level install. Good luck with your system.
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 19:20:35
I'm looking at Dynaudio 240 GT's powered by a RF T600-4, and the CDT SQ10 powered by the RF T1500-1bd. If you all can think of any amps that would match better with these I'll listen.
-Gary
swez on 05/20/2007 20:08:57
Dynaudio's are sweet! Nice choice indeed.
The CDT ES-SQ-100 10" is a poor match with that RF amp. (RF T1500-1bd) This amps' true capabilities, (Great amp that sucks a lot of juice) are wasted on a 4 ohm woofer as mentioned. A much smaller amp and a single 4+4 DVC sub would be plenty here. A very good sub too. Just a very mismatched Sub/Amp combo is all.
Care to consider a better setup for your bass engine? A good 10" sub that is rated between 300 - 500 Wrms, 4+4 DVC coil is plenty good. Then you can use a more efficient sub amp, (Class D amp) from RF if you like and be very happy with it too. Maybe a JL sub would be much to your liking here. They are great... if you don't mind the cost.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=6
Tech Tip: High wattage sub amps demand a lot of power from the electrical system of any vehicle. We try to match sub/amp for high SQL performance, but minimal current draw as well. Otherwise, you'll spend a bunch more $$$ on electrical upgrades.
Pairing that JL sub with the Rockford Fosgate P600.1bd would be a great match.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=12513 (JL sub)
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=18338 (RF amp)
Swez
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 23:38:40
I've heard good things about the W6's, and I'm really considering it. I've not considered them until now because I've always heard you could get more sub for the same money from somebody else. Not that JL's suck, just they are overpriced.
The amps don't have to be RF, but I figured their newer stuff was worth mentioning.
-Gary
Victor on 05/21/2007 00:13:27
http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/128/142/
http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/105/119/
Victor....
swez on 05/21/2007 08:59:48
Very nice choices there Victor!
Yes, JL is a high priced line to be sure. But after installing a few of their amps and knowing the sub line well, they are top notch products, at the right price.
I would not shy away from the newer RF amps out there. Yes, there are cheaper amps as RF always commands a premium price. But the features, specs, reliability and reputation are worth it, if you shop them well.
If you want to look at other amps, consider Diamond, Alpine, JL, JBL, Infinity, MTX and so many others. I've installed or used many of them with great SQL results. The amps are only 10-20% of the net outcome. The speakers, power and install techniques are often the key factors in any good install.
Swez
Victor on 05/21/2007 17:11:10
You may want to have a look at DLS and MOREL speakers too if you are wanting to build a SQ system...
Victor...
Grdevs24zero on 05/21/2007 20:48:12
I'm worried that the Diamond components will be too bright for my tastes, so I never really considered them. I like my highs well-defined, but not overpowering.
I was down at a local audio shop today, the guy I've been talking to recommends the 10w6 as well. So far that's the only sub that's been recommended more than two times, so I think it's a safe bet.
I've been looking at some more head units too, but I think it will be more cost effective to keep the P690UB and add on a high quality equalizer (which I planned to do from the begninning, just not immediately) than spend more money on a headunit with one and then buy a USB add-on on top of that.
How about the Polk SR6500s? A tad out of the budget I set for myself, but I can pull it off.
So it may look like this;
Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-P690UB
Components: Dynaudio 240GTs or Polk SR6500s
Component amp: Hifonics TX8805 or JBL PX300.4 Leaning towards the JBL.
Sub: JL 10w6v2
Sub amp: RF P600.1bd
-Gary
Victor on 05/21/2007 22:43:12
have a look at alpine PDX amps too..
those polks are a very good choice .. i ahve personalyl auditioned them.. very clean and crisp.. smooth highs..
Grdevs24zero on 05/22/2007 20:25:19
The PDX-4.150 is a very nice amp, thanks for the recomendation. I like the look alot better than the JBL, even though this'll be a shealth install and you most likely won't be able to see it.
I swear I looked over the Alpines last night and didn't see it. Do you think the extra ~$200 for the PDX is worth it though?
-Gary
trunkisloud on 05/22/2007 21:32:47
the pioneer 680ub is a nice deck..my cousin bought one for his crossfire and is totally happy with it...mainly for the same reason you are interested in it.the usb ....also if an audio shop has recommended a certain product...then usually its because theyre required to push that product. the guys who really know the products and what they can do are the installers.the man behind the music..i got that tip from a few employees of those retail stores..im not the best at knowing what brands are good for what applications..thats why i come here...but i am good at taking the advice on here and finding the product recommended by the guys on here for the lowest price..so if youre set on the w6...you can certainly find it cheaper than retail ..or maybe an equivilent for a lower price.
UKinstaller on 05/22/2007 23:35:15
PDX amps are trash. i've installed several of them and they all have problems with randomly blowing the onboard fuses, particularly the mono amp. i've seen problems out of seriously 15 of the 20 i have installed over the past year.
get a JL
-UK
Victor on 05/23/2007 04:18:17
with the kind of installing experience UK has, if he says theres some major issue with those PDX amps I would believe him... anyways.. there are many many other options out there in the market...
swez on 05/23/2007 04:35:39
Timely piece of advice on this Alpine amp series. Well, there's always the fall back position of Rockford amps mentioned earlier or even JL.
Swez
Grdevs24zero on 05/23/2007 17:16:14
The store I was at phased out JL's a few months ago, and they don't even stock them any more. So I don't think he was required to push it. He did mention Diamond alot, but they're way too bright for me.
Welp, I think it's come down to this then:
240GTs or SR6500s?
Or....BOTH! No that won't work. I'm thinkin my friends dad had some SR6500s in his civic a while back, I'll ask him to make sure. I really loved the sound.
Ash on 05/27/2007 11:43:22
You know, if you really want to put together a high quality SQ system for less money, the only way to go is using raw drivers from real audiophile companies:
Seas, Vifa, Audax, Dynavox, Peerless, Dayton Reference Series, etc.
Not only do they provide in depth specs including plots, but they are relatively inexpensive per driver as compared to the bigger named car audio brands. The quality build is often better as well.
Don't rule out the use of 8ohm drivers either, for the sensitivity rating is different (1 watt @ 8ohm as compared to 2 watts @ 4 ohms). This relates to lower distortion levels from the amp with almost equivalent output if not more at times.
Just my 2 cents with a grain o' salt....
swez on 05/27/2007 12:32:29
Well, look who just added his 2 cents? Good comments and nice to see ya back on the forum Ash.
I agree, but some very careful design and set up parameters are needed when mixing Home Theater speakers and such w/ car audio apps. Ash knows this well, but it takes time to get the right results.
Yes, can save a good chunk of change this way, but much research is required to pull this one off with class. Ash knows the ropes and we have discussed these options at length in the past. If you want to chop cost on speakers, it takes lots of careful planning to do so.
Swez
Ash on 05/27/2007 15:26:56
Yes, that is true. There are a few particular specs that one has to pay attention to for it to work. Carefull matching of drivers and proper crossover points are important as well. It really does help to use all or most active crossovers here.
I must admit that it can be quite a pain at times, however, usually the results are far impressive than "pre-matched sets".
Example of a 3-way setup I'm working on:
Audax VP100G0 4" midwoofer ($6.00 ea.) Active/Passive (crossover)
Audax HP170M0 6.5" midwoofer ($14.00 ea.) Active
Dayton ND20FA-6 3/4" dome tweeter ($4.60 ea) Passive
Poly Caps, air core inductors, and resistors amounted to about less than $20. The active MTX x-over is one I had laying around so it's sort of a freebie. Add shipping and about a $150 is about what I got invested. The pros is the use of high quality drivers, the cons is the time spent to find them..... Still excellent for a 3-way I figure.
swez on 05/27/2007 18:29:35
Nice choices on drivers Ash. Audax makes some very nice speakers, if you know where to look.... Hello PE... I am looking for.... hehe
Swez
Ash on 05/27/2007 19:20:34
For a simple 2 way comp set it is quite easier than what I'm doing. It is very possible to rival if not outdo pre made comp sets with a select choice of raw components because your not "appealing to the masses". Only your tastes. If you use an active crossover then it can be even easier.
Gotta luv PE and Madisound!
Grdevs24zero on 06/14/2007 22:52:37
Sorry for a long wait on the reply, just moved and things are a bit hectic. Didn't have internet till last night. Still don't have phone or television hahaha.
When I get some time I'll take a look into the basic components you suggested. I have thought about building a system completely from scratch, didn't have any idea how the quality of some of those stand-alone woofers were though. Now I do.
Thanks again for all the help guys.
Gary
I already have the amps picked out, as strange as it may be to pick them first. I recently played around with the new Rockford line at an audio shop near work, and I fell in love. They are small, pack a big punch, and have incredible cooling. Perfect for a limited-space application (I like to take the t-tops off alot, so they go in the back hatch). If you know any of comperable size I'll check em out.
I do not need a thousand watt monster sub in this little car. I figure 250ish will be fine, since I like to hear music instead of just bass. I will never crank the volume for contests or anything. Anybody can buy gear from Best Buy and rattle windows, but to put up with a system on a 12 hour road trip and getting antsy for the drive back home, is something entirely different, and that's what I want. My life revolves around my cars.
I've heard good things about the Pioneer TS-SW1241D subwoofer, and with 3 1/4" mounting depth and small airspace needed, sounds like a real match. But I have no idea how it sounds, and won't have that ability for quite some time.
I'll have to do some measuring, but I think I'll have the room for a 2 cubic foot box, with some creative building. I could also utilize the space opposite the spare tire, about 1.5 cubic feet.
The deck I'm sorta settled on too, it's a Pioneer Premier DEH-P690UB. The USB jack is VERY appealing, as I can connect any MP3 device, phone cord (for charging), and even flash sticks. The cord is long enough to install into the center console for easy access and ultra-sneakiness.
If any of you have some feedback or suggestions, I am very open.
-Gary
Replies (28)
swez on 05/20/2007 09:03:56
Seems like you know what the game is well enough Gary. We typically call this an SQ install. (High quality audio, not too bass heavy)
Do you know what the stock speaker sizes are and where they are located in this vehicle?
Rockford amps are a solid choice and will do the job well. Just plan to do a little careful shopping as RF prices tend to be higher than other solid brands.
As for your subwoofer, indeed... consider a small sealed enclosure, a single 10 or 12" sub for tight, clean bass and enough power handling to match the amp used. A solid 250 - 300 watts RMS from a Class D amp would be a very good choice here. Very easy to find a good sub that will fit in a 0.75 - 1.0 cf enclosure too. The mentioned Pioneer sub is a good choice, depending on the amp used. There are many great subs out there to choose from and many are fine in compact enclosures.
As for your speakers, consider amping them externally with 50-75 watts RMS per channel. The extra RMS power really brings good speakers to life, more than any HU power amp could. (22 watts RMS/ch is typ.) As long as you have room for 5.25" speakers or larger, good Midbass performance comes with adequate power for them to move the cones. (good excursion characteristics) May I suggest Infinity or JBL here? Component type speakers in front, Coaxials in the rear. The newer 2 ohm speakers are neat as you can use a moderate power amp to get them up to any level you wish and remain very clean and accurate.
The HU you mentioned has some very good features to expand on. (I-Pod, MP3 player and Sat Radio ready too) The Easy EQ features are good and easy to use as well. Solid choice here.
Based on your feedback, we can help you assemble a very nice package here. Say more about your preferences and info on the stock speakers in this car. From there, we can point you in a direction that is sure to please.
Swez
PS Welcome to CK! Are you planning to do the install work yourself or have it done by a Pro installer?
Victor on 05/20/2007 10:07:42
If ure lookin for an audiophile grade SQ system... Pioneer , JBL and infinity etc are out... pick on something like CDT, Polk, Focal, Rainbow, Diamond, Dynaudio, etc...for component speakers and subs..
While selecting amps, see to it that the THD levels are low, for cleaner signal...
for SQ systems , a decent headroom is always recommended.. so if your speakers are rated at 50wrms, 4 ohms, then matching them with an amp that gives out 75wrms@ 4ohms will give enough headroom for very clean sound...
most amps have tend to exhibit more THD at higher volumes. so a 50wrms amps when it ( ideally) delivers 50wrms will show a lot of distortion almost more than 10% THD.. which is a lot..
having a larger amp allows us to feed a cleaner 50wrms to the speakers..
Look for reputed manufacturers.
The Pioneer Premier HU u have chosen is a very nice HU.. you may want to look at a higher model if you want all the liberty to do very minute tweaking with the sound..
you got a good budget on hand.. JBL, Infinity and other parallel brands can make very very good SQL systems for a decent price, but when you want a SQ system and also have a better budget then why not look at high-end audiophile grade products....
Victor...
Welcome to CK....COFFEE
30Hertz on 05/20/2007 13:16:24
Just for clarification, are we looking at $500-$700 for the whole system? Or just for the component speakers? If your looking into an SQ based system prices can start adding up quick (as can SPL or anything really) so the more we know about the budget the better. (Maybe its just me tho)
If your on a low-mid budget, I'd reccomend going with infinity kappa perfect component speakers (I dont know your stock speaker sizes). I've personally owned these speakers and I was very happy with the performance they gave for the price. I've also installed them into a customers car before and he was very pleased with them also.
However, if you do have a higher budget, I'd reccomend going with Diamond Audio D6 components. I've owned two pairs of these and have fallen in love with their quality, style and sound. They are a bit more expensive (around $250 a pair through woofersetc.com) but IMO the price warrents the performance.
Depending on your budget again, I'd suggest going with maybe a single 12", or 10" woofer that is around 250-400watts RMS. This should keep the enclosure size down and provide the low end extension and some punch when needed. I ran a single 8" JL Audio W7 with a JL Audio 250/1 in my Toyota Tacoma and was very pleased with the well rounded sound that it produced. Prices vary as well in this catagory. I've personally used RF in the past and they worked fine. I haven't used RF in about 4-5 years so I cant really commet on them. Check out JL Audio, Diamind Audio (the D6 subs and amps are the same quality of the Components), Stereo Integrity, Fi Car Audio and some others. There are more but I'm having a brain fart at the moment.
Do not forget to get the proper wire and some good RCAs. I've got the Knukoncepts (www.knukoncepts.com) eKs RCAs (i think thats the model) at $80 a pop but I'll tell you what, the build quality on these are amazing. I'd also reccomend Knukoncepts for all your wiring. Bill is a great guy and has very good products and prices. If you ever need any questions answered he's the one to get a hold of.
Welcome to CK... COFFEE
swez on 05/20/2007 13:19:52
In many choices, I would agree with you Victor. All brands mentioned are top notch SQ speakers. It's really a matter of preferences here and your budget. What can I say... I happen to have been weened on JBL and Polk's for many years and now like the Infinity sound as well. Figures huh?
If your budget is fat, look at Diamonds, Dynaudio and Focal. They do like power however. So plan on a solid amp to power them if you go in that direction. If possible, go to a few high end Car Audio Salons and demo your favorite music on what they have. They won't sound the same in a vehicle, but the general characteristics are there and discernable.
I looked up the speakers recommended for your car. Looks like 6.5" in front doors and rear panels too. That will give you plenty of nice options and solid midbass too.
Swez
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 14:12:39
Thanks for the welcome. I was a somewhat active member a year ago until work took over, but I still browsed every once in a while.
I was thinking about the Infinity Perfect series, among others, but I know they don't have near the quality output as the higher priced components. I briefly got to listen to some Perfects a while back and liked the sound, but the time with them was just too short to really judge them.
The stock speaker sizes are 6.5", but I plan on eventually fiberglassing some kick pods in, so I can get by with adapters or spacers now. I will be doing the entire install, setup, and tuning. Stock locations are in the door and on top of the rear strut towers slightly angled into the sitting area.
The amplifiers I was looking at the other day are (for a typical 2-4ohm sub):
Rockford T400-4
I chose a 4 channel in case I need some rear fill, and seeing as it's only a few dollars more than a 2 channel, I figure it's a good idea.
Rockford T500-1bd
I could also bridge a Rockford T400-2 for the sub.
I have been considering the CDT HD-642's and the SQ-10. But with those I'd have to step up the amps, and I'm not sure what to go with.
-Gary
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 14:19:30
And the budget is pretty healthy, I figured the $500-$700 JUST for the components. Maybe another grand for the amps, maybe $300 on a sub. Keep in mind these are the MSRP prices. In actuality I plan on spending between $1.2k-$1.7k. With the good websites and waiting for deals, I figure on a nice system with that much cash.
-Gary
30Hertz on 05/20/2007 16:08:19
You've got a good budget from what it sounds like =).
I can recommend the CDT SQ-12. I personally own the woofer and am happy with its performance. It hits clean, precise and doesnt require much ^ft for an enclosure. I've had mine in for probably a little over a month now.
You might also want to check out the Fi 12" Q series subs. Their SQ based.
at work, will add more later
jamesp on 05/20/2007 17:29:48
Grdevs24zero..Justa heads up on the Rockford amps. I bought an RF 450.4 4 channel amp then stumbled onto this site for some install help. Swez and others steered me in the right direction and I have, in my opinion, a very nice sounding SQL system without a ton of money invested in it.
Shop for Rockford amps..I found the 450.4 for around $200.00 delivered.
For subs I got a RF 600.1BD. Minimum of 600 watts RMS at 2 Ohms and they are still available at this price online for about $ 220.00 shipped.Be careful here, many places sell these for $299.00 and up.
Front stage Infinity Kappa 670 series 2 Ohm components (6x8's) for about $155.oo but there arent too many places selling them for this price.
In the rear a pair of Rockford Fosgate dual tweeter Punch components. I paid close to retail for these from a local aucio store and had them up front first. Dont be afraid of these components. They hit the mids very hard and cleanly. The tweets sound good with one in the woofer and one about 6" away, They have a very versitile mounting system but have big magnets and had to be shimmed out to clear the windows. Cost $250.00 can be bought for a little more than half of that.
Finally for the BUMP I bought an Alpine 12" type R and a sealed box online for leee than $200.00 . After installing all of this I decided to replace the stock head unit and found an Eclipse CD5000 for about $250.00 delivered. I considered this unit from Crutchfield a few months ago and it was $549,00 there.
I think that I did pretty good money and sound wise..If not for this place, Club Knowlege, there is no telling what kind of equipment I would have bought. I would of eventually ended up with something decent but would have probably ended up buying everything 3 times. I originally intended to just replace my factory factory speakers and add some bass. I did that and became interested in car audio and had to dump the 4 speakers and powered sub that I started with back in December.
Another note: the 2 RF amps that I have seem to do a very good job and they do not get hot at all. I am not driving them at top volume but do crank it up some and so far these amps barely get warm. Looking around at some car audio sites a lot of people talk bad about the new Rf amps but I feel like they are well made in Arizona I believe. The stock charging system with a big battery in my F-150 Lariat 4x4 handles this system well. I added a satellite Sirius tuner this weekend and I think Im going to really like it too.
I spent about$1500.00 total, wiring, didtribution blocks, RCA's and everything which is not bad considering that an article in last months Car Audio and Electronics had a shop put together 3 systems, a budget, mid price point and a fancy audio/video system. In the buget system they used the same 4 channel amp I have, an RF 450.4, kept the stock speakers wiring them to 2 Ohms, added a single 10" JL (mid price point for JL) sub and called this a $3500.00 entry level install. Good luck with your system.
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 19:20:35
I'm looking at Dynaudio 240 GT's powered by a RF T600-4, and the CDT SQ10 powered by the RF T1500-1bd. If you all can think of any amps that would match better with these I'll listen.
-Gary
swez on 05/20/2007 20:08:57
Dynaudio's are sweet! Nice choice indeed.
The CDT ES-SQ-100 10" is a poor match with that RF amp. (RF T1500-1bd) This amps' true capabilities, (Great amp that sucks a lot of juice) are wasted on a 4 ohm woofer as mentioned. A much smaller amp and a single 4+4 DVC sub would be plenty here. A very good sub too. Just a very mismatched Sub/Amp combo is all.
Care to consider a better setup for your bass engine? A good 10" sub that is rated between 300 - 500 Wrms, 4+4 DVC coil is plenty good. Then you can use a more efficient sub amp, (Class D amp) from RF if you like and be very happy with it too. Maybe a JL sub would be much to your liking here. They are great... if you don't mind the cost.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_subs.php?series_id=6
Tech Tip: High wattage sub amps demand a lot of power from the electrical system of any vehicle. We try to match sub/amp for high SQL performance, but minimal current draw as well. Otherwise, you'll spend a bunch more $$$ on electrical upgrades.
Pairing that JL sub with the Rockford Fosgate P600.1bd would be a great match.
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=12513 (JL sub)
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=18338 (RF amp)
Swez
Grdevs24zero on 05/20/2007 23:38:40
I've heard good things about the W6's, and I'm really considering it. I've not considered them until now because I've always heard you could get more sub for the same money from somebody else. Not that JL's suck, just they are overpriced.
The amps don't have to be RF, but I figured their newer stuff was worth mentioning.
-Gary
Victor on 05/21/2007 00:13:27
http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/128/142/
http://www.diamondaudio.com/content/view/105/119/
Victor....
swez on 05/21/2007 08:59:48
Very nice choices there Victor!
Yes, JL is a high priced line to be sure. But after installing a few of their amps and knowing the sub line well, they are top notch products, at the right price.
I would not shy away from the newer RF amps out there. Yes, there are cheaper amps as RF always commands a premium price. But the features, specs, reliability and reputation are worth it, if you shop them well.
If you want to look at other amps, consider Diamond, Alpine, JL, JBL, Infinity, MTX and so many others. I've installed or used many of them with great SQL results. The amps are only 10-20% of the net outcome. The speakers, power and install techniques are often the key factors in any good install.
Swez
Victor on 05/21/2007 17:11:10
You may want to have a look at DLS and MOREL speakers too if you are wanting to build a SQ system...
Victor...
Grdevs24zero on 05/21/2007 20:48:12
I'm worried that the Diamond components will be too bright for my tastes, so I never really considered them. I like my highs well-defined, but not overpowering.
I was down at a local audio shop today, the guy I've been talking to recommends the 10w6 as well. So far that's the only sub that's been recommended more than two times, so I think it's a safe bet.
I've been looking at some more head units too, but I think it will be more cost effective to keep the P690UB and add on a high quality equalizer (which I planned to do from the begninning, just not immediately) than spend more money on a headunit with one and then buy a USB add-on on top of that.
How about the Polk SR6500s? A tad out of the budget I set for myself, but I can pull it off.
So it may look like this;
Head Unit: Pioneer DEH-P690UB
Components: Dynaudio 240GTs or Polk SR6500s
Component amp: Hifonics TX8805 or JBL PX300.4 Leaning towards the JBL.
Sub: JL 10w6v2
Sub amp: RF P600.1bd
-Gary
Victor on 05/21/2007 22:43:12
have a look at alpine PDX amps too..
those polks are a very good choice .. i ahve personalyl auditioned them.. very clean and crisp.. smooth highs..
Grdevs24zero on 05/22/2007 20:25:19
The PDX-4.150 is a very nice amp, thanks for the recomendation. I like the look alot better than the JBL, even though this'll be a shealth install and you most likely won't be able to see it.
I swear I looked over the Alpines last night and didn't see it. Do you think the extra ~$200 for the PDX is worth it though?
-Gary
trunkisloud on 05/22/2007 21:32:47
the pioneer 680ub is a nice deck..my cousin bought one for his crossfire and is totally happy with it...mainly for the same reason you are interested in it.the usb ....also if an audio shop has recommended a certain product...then usually its because theyre required to push that product. the guys who really know the products and what they can do are the installers.the man behind the music..i got that tip from a few employees of those retail stores..im not the best at knowing what brands are good for what applications..thats why i come here...but i am good at taking the advice on here and finding the product recommended by the guys on here for the lowest price..so if youre set on the w6...you can certainly find it cheaper than retail ..or maybe an equivilent for a lower price.
UKinstaller on 05/22/2007 23:35:15
PDX amps are trash. i've installed several of them and they all have problems with randomly blowing the onboard fuses, particularly the mono amp. i've seen problems out of seriously 15 of the 20 i have installed over the past year.
get a JL
-UK
Victor on 05/23/2007 04:18:17
with the kind of installing experience UK has, if he says theres some major issue with those PDX amps I would believe him... anyways.. there are many many other options out there in the market...
swez on 05/23/2007 04:35:39
Timely piece of advice on this Alpine amp series. Well, there's always the fall back position of Rockford amps mentioned earlier or even JL.
Swez
Grdevs24zero on 05/23/2007 17:16:14
The store I was at phased out JL's a few months ago, and they don't even stock them any more. So I don't think he was required to push it. He did mention Diamond alot, but they're way too bright for me.
Welp, I think it's come down to this then:
240GTs or SR6500s?
Or....BOTH! No that won't work. I'm thinkin my friends dad had some SR6500s in his civic a while back, I'll ask him to make sure. I really loved the sound.
Ash on 05/27/2007 11:43:22
You know, if you really want to put together a high quality SQ system for less money, the only way to go is using raw drivers from real audiophile companies:
Seas, Vifa, Audax, Dynavox, Peerless, Dayton Reference Series, etc.
Not only do they provide in depth specs including plots, but they are relatively inexpensive per driver as compared to the bigger named car audio brands. The quality build is often better as well.
Don't rule out the use of 8ohm drivers either, for the sensitivity rating is different (1 watt @ 8ohm as compared to 2 watts @ 4 ohms). This relates to lower distortion levels from the amp with almost equivalent output if not more at times.
Just my 2 cents with a grain o' salt....
swez on 05/27/2007 12:32:29
Well, look who just added his 2 cents? Good comments and nice to see ya back on the forum Ash.
I agree, but some very careful design and set up parameters are needed when mixing Home Theater speakers and such w/ car audio apps. Ash knows this well, but it takes time to get the right results.
Yes, can save a good chunk of change this way, but much research is required to pull this one off with class. Ash knows the ropes and we have discussed these options at length in the past. If you want to chop cost on speakers, it takes lots of careful planning to do so.
Swez
Ash on 05/27/2007 15:26:56
Yes, that is true. There are a few particular specs that one has to pay attention to for it to work. Carefull matching of drivers and proper crossover points are important as well. It really does help to use all or most active crossovers here.
I must admit that it can be quite a pain at times, however, usually the results are far impressive than "pre-matched sets".
Example of a 3-way setup I'm working on:
Audax VP100G0 4" midwoofer ($6.00 ea.) Active/Passive (crossover)
Audax HP170M0 6.5" midwoofer ($14.00 ea.) Active
Dayton ND20FA-6 3/4" dome tweeter ($4.60 ea) Passive
Poly Caps, air core inductors, and resistors amounted to about less than $20. The active MTX x-over is one I had laying around so it's sort of a freebie. Add shipping and about a $150 is about what I got invested. The pros is the use of high quality drivers, the cons is the time spent to find them..... Still excellent for a 3-way I figure.
swez on 05/27/2007 18:29:35
Nice choices on drivers Ash. Audax makes some very nice speakers, if you know where to look.... Hello PE... I am looking for.... hehe
Swez
Ash on 05/27/2007 19:20:34
For a simple 2 way comp set it is quite easier than what I'm doing. It is very possible to rival if not outdo pre made comp sets with a select choice of raw components because your not "appealing to the masses". Only your tastes. If you use an active crossover then it can be even easier.
Gotta luv PE and Madisound!
Grdevs24zero on 06/14/2007 22:52:37
Sorry for a long wait on the reply, just moved and things are a bit hectic. Didn't have internet till last night. Still don't have phone or television hahaha.
When I get some time I'll take a look into the basic components you suggested. I have thought about building a system completely from scratch, didn't have any idea how the quality of some of those stand-alone woofers were though. Now I do.
Thanks again for all the help guys.
Gary
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