http://www.knoxnews.com/kns/state/article/0,1406,KNS_348_5491437,00.html
This is how it should be. Don't ban guns because of one idiot, give more people guns so that one idiot dosen't shoot so many.
Replies (38)
ttocs on 04/20/2007 09:40:42
absolutly! I think we should just start passing them out at the jr high level.......
I don't think giving more idiots guns will help anything.
cplkittle on 04/20/2007 09:56:20
what if one person in one of those classrooms had a gun at VT.
Not just handing them out, but allowing those who have permits to carry concealed weapons on state and gov't property (a secondary background check and three day class for the permit).
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/20/2007 10:01:17
I have mixed feelings on this one. I would have been nice if somebody was strapped and blasted that psycho, but keep in mind that said psycho was also a law abiding psycho with no criminal record.......
How about a ban against idiots and psychos having guns, and instead of a backround check, how bout numerous rounds of psychological exams before handing ou a concealed carry permit to judge one's mental stability before letting the pack any heat?
Like a charector from the movie "Lord of War" said...."A nuclear weapon is not a weapon of mass destruction. That will sit and rust in a silo. This loaded AK-47 is a weapon of mass destruction"
cplkittle on 04/20/2007 10:47:46
I believe in fair game.
Either everybody has a gun or nobody has a gun. When one person has one, the playing field is not fair anymore.
Since so many people have guns, including myself, I think everyone should have the opportunity to have and carry (with proper background checks).
Personally, I will not give up my guns because there is no way to ensure that everyone will. I don't carry mine around though. My .40 and .44 are on either side of the bed, and that is where they stay. My wife has the .44 believe it or not. And she has been taught well how to use it. Actually she has better aim than I do at 25 and 40 yards.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/20/2007 11:01:24
Thats one hell of a wife there! Can't argue with a woman that is a better shot though.
Who is to say what will become of gun laws. I know if they were gone, half of the lyrics of the music I listen to would be null and void..........
ttocs on 04/20/2007 11:25:20
yup. Everyone should have a gun strapped to them from age 12 up............ Males and females, nuns and priests, cheer leaders and mascots................ There should be cases on the side of the road with "break glass if your gun jams" and automatic rifles behind them............. I want to be able to go to circle K and get a redbul, a hot dog, and a 9mm........... wouldn't that really be a convience store and then they would never get robbed right!!!!! ITS A WIN WIN FOR EVERYONE!!!
So what about the guys with the rocket launchers, morters or grenades? If they have them shouldn't I have them as well? If I had a rocket launcher they would not use thiers right?
30Hertz on 04/20/2007 17:43:32
Good Idea except I dont believe this would fix the problem.
Reasons?
1. Not every person is a person with high integrity. Even if they have a clean record now they have a source of power in their hands and with power, comes great responsibility. A gun wielding power tripping civvy is a not a good thing.
2. Not everyone is trained to use a gun, and use it well. If someone was to go nutz, and someone felt they were in danger and during the altercation brought out their gun and started shooting are they going to be trained on aiming at the target? Are they going to look behind the target at what the bullet will hit if they miss or it passes through? Most likely not leading to more civvy casualties and property damage.
3. I'm going to be a police officer, and I dont really feel like having to worry about everyone I'm going to talk to having a gun on their person and if they dont like what I have to say, are they going to pull it out and attempt to shoot me? With the amount of criminals and illegal guns on the street as it is, I'm going to have it stressful enough.
While there are benefits to everyone having a gun, people just flat out wont understand the responsbility involved or the risks of having one. Every immature idiot that has no experience dealing with hostile situations most likely would use a firearm as a first option, not a last resort leading to more deaths and crime in this country. Yes everyone would be packing, but would everyone understand how to use it, and when it would be appropriet? No, a background check and a permit class will not teach the skills involved nor will it weed out the criminals with no records.
I vote no =)
-30
swez on 04/20/2007 18:07:35
This is pretty funny... where are all the Texan's when ya need one? Don't many of them always pack heat in their pick-em-up trucks anyway? Have seen a lot who do when visiting there.
Actually, it's been rumored that the Gov't does not want the average Joe packing a gun. If they had their way, all guns would be conficated and only the police, military, para-military and thugs would pack heat. Not a good scenario nor an effective crime deterrant.
To many, that's not only unconstitutional, but it also takes away the power to defend oneself against armed thugs. Personally, I do not own a weapon and to date, have never seen a true need for one either. There may come a day when some event changes my mind. (But not this one at VT)
Am wondering if making these events high profile issues in the news, (Day in and day out) are also a bad idea? Yes, we have the right to know what is going on around us to be sure. However, does this give too much information to a would be shooter in the future?
Take a look at the press and how they report so many details. They tell what was done, how it was done and show how unable authorities are at responding to such things in a rapid and effective way. Maybe I'm all wet here and that's possible, but suppose there were trained people on all major and minor campuses, (And other large public places) to be the eyes and ears at the scene. (Trained snipers, plain clothes guards and police) Would that help or not?
A quick history lesson... Kent State University in 1968? Look what happened there when a peacable crowd gathered to protest the Vietnam War. They had no guns, morters or WMD's. (Many women may have used IUD's, but that's another topic) Look how that turned out. ("4 dead in OHIO")
Then, look at Waco, Ruby Ridge and a few others I can't recall at the moment. The problem was just not perps having weapons. It was the military and police that got trigger happy and created a a bigger mess than if they had waited things out. Did they really need tanks at Waco? (Over-powering and excessive deadly force right?)
Think about all this with a view toward past history and how badly the military and Authorities actually handled them. IMHO, if you want to take out a dug in perp, use Special OPS teams who are very well trained for such events. Yes, they too make mistakes, but each time they review the case and study the events, new strategies come up and more training can actually limit loss of life.
Swez
cplkittle on 04/20/2007 22:33:57
It's tough to admit, but I agree to a large extent.
Maybe weapon permits should come with an IQ test, a common sense test, and a Rorschach ink blot test.. and I'm not trying to be a smart a$$.
I guess it is just hard for me to believe that people can do this sort of thing. I guess I am no better having been in a situation in Iraq.
Even after that, I know without a doubt that I could never just shoot someone for the hell of it.
I guess it will remain a catch 22 topic - damned if you do... damned if you don't. The NASA shooting hasn't helped things either. I am afraid to ask what is next.
Victor on 04/21/2007 01:43:55
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/archives/3135.html
cplkittle on 04/21/2007 02:54:47
82 year old former Miss America shoots out tires on burglar's car.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/ap_on_fe_st/brave_beauty_queen;_ylt=AqKIALX9Pv3y5AeQw9olWtYuQE4F
"She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun."
swez on 04/21/2007 03:34:54
Looked up her bio on Google... this woman has some serious spunk and was a very pretty gal back then too:
http://www.missamerica.org/our-miss-americas/1940/1944.asp
Swez
gearhead on 04/21/2007 04:03:10
If I didn't have a 12ga & 2 handguns, I would have been without my generators and 150gals of gasoline after Katrina hit. I had to "persuade" a few people to leave, that had absolutely NO business on our street at that time.
swez on 04/21/2007 04:28:01
Hehe, that's a different story and Marshall Law can't be everywhere all at the same time. Makes perfect sense to me... set up camp where ya can see everything and get cozy with a battery power radio, a cell phone and your trusty ol sidearms.
Better still, sit in a dark place, have a battery powered CB radio w/ and external speaker and if any come to close, "Hey... you don't belong here and you're trespassing at the wrong place. Move along or risk a few holes in your arse"!!!
Homeland Security has a whole new meaning to it huh?
Swez
jamesp on 04/21/2007 09:23:37
I have been buying, selling and trading firearms for many years.I have a nice collection of long guns and hand guns and always seem to have one or two close at hand. All of my firearms are sporting guns, either for hunting ,target, trap or skeet shooting and if necessary they will be available for protection of my family or others.
Unless I decide to cause damage, injury or death with these things they are not weapons. We can legally carry a loaded handgun in our vehicles. I dont take this responsibility lightly and would never show a gun with the intent of intimidating someone that irritated me in traffic or where my personal safety is not threatened. My father taught me not to point a gun at anything that I was not prepared to shoot and my dad and my grandfather before him had the Remington arms franchise around here for over 50 years. I remember as a kid that in order to get the best pricing on ammo, they bought it in box car loads. They loved to bird hunt and taught us firearm safety way before a hunter safety program was concieved.
I do feel that I would not hesitate to use a gun as a weapon to protect life and maybe even property. The law says that we are not supposed to use excessive force on someone that is merely stealing your life savings. Hmmm, dont know about that one for sure..dont want to find out... As I tell my wife, If some idiots try to do something that endangers us, I want to have any advantage possible and not be at someones mercy....and what if they only have a knife....well , as far as I know, Im definitly not a knife fighter...I would have to be the guy that brought a gun to a knife fight. not vice versa.
If any of us were ever put in a life or death situation by crazy or vicious people, I want to have a gun available...as the old saying goes I would rather be tried by 12 strangers than carried by 6 friends...
When we were kids, a gun was never considered a first line of defense for school bully problems and kids can be very cruel...but d@mn..I just dont recall ever seriously considering shooting someone that picked on me. What in the psyche of some young people has changed so much over the last 20 or 30 years?
Sorry for the rambling
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/21/2007 10:46:16
A lot has changed. Basically kids being raised by MTV, crackheads and too busy and otherwise strung out parents. The young psyches of minds has changed alot, definitely for the worse. I am dreading the day when the idiots of my generation make the business and political mistakes of the past look like textbook operations..........
Its funny though, on a cd I have, the quote you said meets its opposite. It goes something like I'd rather be killed by 6, than hung by 12 white blah blah blah random obsenities. Basically discussing running from cops. Maybe another reason the youth is so out there........ I like yours better though.
I was taught the same thing when I went shooting the first, and almost every time since the same thing. Don't pull out on anything your'e not going to shoot, and don't put your finger on the trigger until ready to pull.
Cant say I blame you for wanting to show up with a gun at a knife fight. Either way is pretty bad going, but it's always good to be well prepared.
ttocs on 04/21/2007 13:32:12
Ok, so we all have the right to carry firearms I know. and I would have no problem if everyone had the weapon that was to be considered for the time that law was made, the musket. I really have no problem with anyone carrying a big old long rifle that I can see from a distance, and can only be shot once a minute..... I am sure they had no idea that one day people would be able to carry, and shoot hundreds of rounds in a couple of minutes with a hand held gun.
I grew up in the boy scouts and was also taught how to use a gun properly at a young age and of course I enjoyed shooting then and I do now. I do not own a gun as I have no need for one as I have enough expensive hobbies. It bothers me that my neighbor could have a small arsonal at his house for any reason. What does the common person need a semi or full automatic weapon for? if you are target shooting then they only come out one at a time right? Since moving ot AZ I have met some guys that truely scare the heck out of me with the weapons they have and what they do. They put a AR15 in my hands and did not understand my confusion when I asked him what he hunts with it?
gearhead on 04/21/2007 14:04:55
"What does the common person need a semi or full automatic weapon for?"
What does the common person need a 1000w stereo for? Or a $5000 custom paint job on their car? Or (insert any luxury item)?Different people have different hobbies/likes/tastes. What does it matter, as long as there are no laws being broken?
swez on 04/21/2007 14:46:03
This topic is really making me think about a few events a few years back. Me and a few buddies were sitting around a small fire pot, sipping a few cool ones and just talking about all kinds of stuff.
A little while goes by and my neighbor's brother, (A known dope dealer) dropped by to say hello and whipped out his new 9mm handgun and a kilo of weed. My jaw dropped to the ground. He was talking a bunch of crap, how mad he was at his EX and bought the gun as protection when doing his dope deals.
Well, I looked him square in the eye and said... dude, you are welcome here anytime to chat. But the gun and your dope don't come here ever again. He looked at me kinda strangely at first, then I stood up and waved him over to the driveway and he came. I gently put my hand on his shoulder and said... "Ditch the weapon and leave your dope elsewhere. Then you can join us."
He was proud of his new toy, but I would not allow such things on my property. He looked a bit puzzled that I did not share his enthusiasum for this sharp looking gun. But he went back to his truck, put the heat/weed away and came back to join us as we relaxed. As it turned out, he just wanted to feel some power in the situations he had been through and just needed to talk things out. (He felt powerless is all)
OK, we gave him that and let him vent until he started to laugh. That was the end of it. He just needed to vent his upside-down life and have others listen. Once that was accomplished, he was relaxed, having some fun and left w/o an ounce of hostility left in mind.
It was a bit scary to confront the guy at first. But I had a hunch he just needed to vent. This time, everything worked out well. I cannot help wonder what he might have done that night, if we didn't give him time to vent and then talk/think things out in a rational way. He later admitted the clip was empty, but was not the issue. We don't bring guns to my little chat room... you are welcome here... but lose the heat and your kilo of weed first!!!
Dang, he listened and that was the end of it.
Swez
ttocs on 04/21/2007 15:37:10
RRRRRIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHTTTTT SMILE.............
you made him take the weed out PROUD..............
I would have done the exact same thing GRIN........
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 15:46:55
hey swez believe it or not ....i havnt seen a gun rack in a truck here in texas in about ten years i believe....
jamesp on 04/21/2007 16:07:27
Quote: What does the common person need a semi or full automatic weapon for?
Although they are not weapons I have several auto loading guns.
I have 2 different caliber BAR's , Browning Automatic Rifles...they are not fully auto, they are semi auto and I use trhe .243 around here deer hunting and it is one of my favorite rounds. I use the .300 belted magnum out west for big game. I use both on the bench ocassionaly. Why would I want them? They are fine, Belgium made guns and are a work of art and examples of fine craftmanship,I also have a knife collection, a collection of old fishing lures and railroad pocket watches secure in my gun room.
Unless someone invades my home with malicious intent, my guns will cause no more harm to another than my pocketwatches or lures, unless I ever get to take Swez fishing and accidentaly foul hook an ear or something.
We can collect and admire anything that is legal to posess that we want to and still be normal, peaceful productive citizens with open minds.
Legal possesion of fully automatic firearms is expensive and once you pay the premium fee to own each gun, you also agree to random, unannounced ATF inspection. The ownerhip fee must be paid every year or maybe every 3 years. They are a lot of fun to shoot.
With my FFL, I was subject to random inspection of my business. This is a good thing. The bad guys dont sign the ticket and pay the fees and most have the intent of using the gun as a weapon, not admire the lovely curly maple stock
30Hertz on 04/21/2007 16:43:33
Regardless, while some people understand the power and responsbility involved in carrying a firearm (the older generations) the fact of the matter is this. With society the way it is now there is no responsbility being tought to the kids and teenagers. Anger and irrisponsibility are not met with consequences so no one feels any source of wrong doing or fear any consqeuences for their actions. Todays generations would rather resort to violence than to talk it out like a man because they feel they deserve the respect. No one is tought that you EARN respect and its not something just to be given because their afraid of you. While I agree, having a firearm is a source of protection, in no way should it be a comfort. Just because someone has a gun, does not mean they know how to properly use it, take aim and use it in the appropriet times.
Just a lil info: If your standing 50ft away from an individual and you have a sidearm holstered and that individual charges at you with a knife drawn, He can get to you, stab and slash you before you have time to draw your firearm, aim and shoot. Simple fact is yes, if your aware of the danger you can protect yourself. But if its in the street or a situation thats hit you by supprize having a sidearm is not going to be a failsafe. If some punk drew a knife and ran at me I'd rather have my Sap or a baseball bat than a gun.
People have a false sense of comfort knowing there is a gun within reach. With adrenaline pumping and the chaos of not knowing whats going on anything can happen, gun or not. Mistakes happen, people shoot family or friends when their worried someone is breaking in.
ttocs on 04/21/2007 17:21:04
I want to compair this to the current situation with iran. They SWEAR their nuclear intentions are for peacefull purposes, as you do your guns right? It is their "right" to be able to pursue nuclear power right?
My problem is that for every person that comes on here and and quotes rules from the gun handling guide there are 10 morons that are making the same arguments you are (its my right and its fo fun!)to carry the same gun you are. I am not saying you are a moron, just that your argument for guns carries as much weight as it would with a moron making it............ agian, too many morons out there to allow guns to be purchased as easily as they are.
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 18:11:08
word........
gearhead on 04/21/2007 18:17:00
And for every car audio enthuiast who operated their sound system responsibly, there are 10 morons that don't. So, should all of the responsible enthusiasts be punished by making it harder to purchase stereo equipment? I know it's not on the same level as guns, but I'm sure you've heard of the "slippery slope".
jamesp on 04/21/2007 18:49:03
It all comes down to responsibilty. I am responsible for my actions and so far my record, or lack of one proves that fact.
I have 2 children that like me have been raised in a home with both parents present, limits and boundries set, love and guidance providedI took the responsibility to do the best job that I could do with them. My son is 29 and my daughter is 19 and both are wonderful, intelligent people. Blanket statements about young people not having a proper home environment bother me. I know many like minded parents that have gone to great lengths and have done everything possible to raise thier children properly. There are too many that are not there for the children that they brought into this world
Ttocks, if you are referring to me in your post above, I never mentioned "rights" and never mentioned anything about how I felt about the ease that a gun can be bought by a person that intends to use it as a weapon. I have only described my situation and tried to show that even as a "regular person "why I might want this gun or that gun. Good people should be able to have what I haveif they want it and I have proven that I am that by the way that I have lived my life.
I was just telling a little about myself and some of the things that interest me, not making an argument for or against anything. In my opinion the Iran analogy is not valid. They are not playing by the rules and a statement like that also carries the same validity whether made by you or made by a moron.
If our government passes laws to help weed out undesireble people from buying guns I am all for it. Give everybody an IQ test. 96 or less is considered . umm,,,,.....moronic.......
ttocs on 04/21/2007 19:40:16
I can take that.
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 19:55:04
word.....
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/21/2007 20:40:20
I.Q. test......Great Idea.
Nice Collection there James. The B.A.R. is definitely a collectors piece that any enthuisist can appreciate.
I saw this fishing lure on TV the other day, and it was a this lure that looked like a real fish and had like 3 cuts in it to make it "swim" with a left and right motion. I don't even fish and I want one.
Nuts that some kid shows up with the strapola and a kilo at your house. I would say you handled that one pretty well, and I hope your weords of wisdom set his straight. Rollin wit a peice and a key isn't a great idea.....
Personally, I think the Iran issue is a interesting comparsion, as I dont think morons should have guns or nuclear capabilities of any kind. I thought nuclear power was pretty much shunned throughout the world as an effective method of power. Unfotunately, the odds of them making a powerplant with that is the same as some gun toting thug using his gun to hunt rabbit.
Who is to say what will come of this mess. Maybe we should start handing them out in 6th grade, and selling them at convinience stores. Convinience stores should package a 9, a box of bullets, brillo pad and baking soda all in one nice little package.
30Hertz on 04/21/2007 21:33:11
We all have our opinions on the gun control topic. I'm not against people having firearms even though I may seem that way by some of my posts. I do believe we need to have more control over who buys them currently and the rules and regulations involved in the purchase.
With my generalization of people not teaching kids responsibility or having consequences for their actions still holds water. While some of us have been raised in a household where both parents were there, and we were tought good lessons to carry out in life and molded into good individuals there are to many others that were not given the same teachings. I'll use the 10/10/80 rule that I use all the time. Its a generalization but for the most part its fairly accurate.
10% of the population have very high moral standards and would not do anything wrong, even if they were given the chance because of their consience and other contributing factors. 10% of the poplulation will allways make the wrong decisions and have contact with the law quite frequently. (These are the ones we see in and out of prison their whole life) The other 80% of the population will make a bad choice given the right opportunity (For example a good kid is shopping in a store, realizes no one is around and decides he's going to take a CD, Normally he would never do such a thing but because of the opportunity he made the wrong decision). Everyone makes mistakes, when there is a firearm involved the mistake elevates at a very fast pace.
Sticter gun controls are needed, at least in my opinion. People will debate both sides of the issue and we all have experiences for, and against gun control. The issue is more of a catch 22, you cant win either way unfortunately.
swez on 04/21/2007 22:29:58
Gotta love that B.A.R. James... and if one catches a hook in the ear, hand, skull or whatever, just deal with it, forget the cause and deal with the immediate at hand. Deal with the cause issues later.
Was up north fishing with a few young kids about 8 years ago and hooked a lively pike. Got it netted and when I got it out of the net, it flipped a few times and one of those large treble hooks went deep into my ring finger on the right hand. Blood everywhere dude and being in a tender spot, the 1st order of biz was to calm the kids down. (They freaked at all the blood)
Once that was done, had to grab some pliers and remove the hook from the lure that was still attached to said thrashing 8lb pike. We then boated in and took a 45 min car ride to the local hospital for extraction. Dang, that was over 1.5 hours before the hook was finally removed. (Should have see this Doc's tools... they looked like he borrowed them from the night shift handyman... LOL... rusty ol lineman's pliers) "Have these be sterilized Doc?"
But it all ended well though. Hook extraction was a success. But the strange thing here, even today, I still have periodic joint pain in that knuckle. Just certain days it will bother a tad and become a gentle reminder of how not to handle a fiesty pike.... use a good leather glove.
I now chuckle every time I look at that lure in my tackle box. Have not gone pike fishing sice either... Pikeophobic? GRIN
Hertz, I have to agree w/ your 10/10/80 comments, with a slight tweak of the numbers. (16/4/80) It seems that about 2-4% is a good number of bad-to-da-bone people out there. The 16% group will always take the higher road, regardless of the opportunity at hand or not. The 80%'er are generally disposed to be neutral in most cases. But as you say, given a need/desire and opportunity to take a wrong turn, they might if they are confident that nothing bad will come of it.
Unfortunately, crime often does pay off if one is predisposed to such options. If one learns to be a skilled thief, he can get all the cash he desires with minimal effort and danger to himself. It's when greed hits and they get sloppy, that's when bad things happen to innocents and perps too. (The element of surprise works for and against the perp too)
It's that factor that gages the outcome in many cases.
The 50 feet charge w/ a knife is an interesting scenario. We have about 4-5 seconds to react. The real surprise factor would be to charge him too. (A wild screaming charge) That would probably catch him totally off guard. Go to his limited reach side, (knife in his right hand, go to his left) That could buy just enough time to disorient the perp and maybe lay hands on something to equalize the blade.
Yeah, it sounds good on paper, but it would take extreme presents of mind and split-second thinking too. As we pass the perp, a sharp blow to the knee, (Tear his knee out) is often enough to lay the perp low, unless he's all cracked out. But even then, his mobility is hampered and buys time to either flee or get a stout pipe, board or whatever is handy and break his grip on the knife.
Sounds like a Hollywood script scuffle huh?
Swez Out
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 22:40:54
is this the car audio forum>>/?..........word.
30Hertz on 04/21/2007 23:12:56
The scenario I went over with a knife is something they teach at the Police Academy. With as fast and a person can charge you and cover the 50ft distance is faster than you can draw your weapon and shoot. There are things you can do but the issue their teaching is the fact that you should not rely on your firearm as your only source of protection. You have to remain alert, maintain your composure and never let your guard down.
Trunk, while this is a Car Audio forum we are allowed to discuss other topics as long as its not popstrous. It is ClubKnowledge =)
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 23:25:46
right on 30......word
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/22/2007 09:50:26
30, I really like the 10/10/80 statement. With my expeirence in life, I find this to be pretty accurate. Maybe not quite the numbers, but the idea is pretty good. I like having a law enforcement view on the topic.
I have heard about the 50 yard scenario when a "suicide by cop" case hapened. An old lady (in her 60's) rushed an officer with a jammed .22 pistol, but had fired 2 shots at officers before it jammed. The poor guy pulled twice, and was before a very rough commitee on his actions. This was a very controversial case, as it occurred inside the newly annexed city limits, but outside of the county limits. The city I lived in was on the edge of the county. I used to whip around out there when I was younger and was teaching myself how to drive, because there was very little law enforcement activity there. Response time for the police was insanely long, and this lady was going crazy calling and threatining people.
Every time anything like that had happened in my city, the paper brought it up as examples for "suicide by cop" quoting a few examples where knife toting men had rushed police officers. Fortunately, officers already were weapons drawn at that point and all examples successfully had their suicide.
In Colorado, about a year or two ago, there were a lot of crazy police shootings. After this crazy guy shot a couple of cops, killing one, and really messing up the other, "for the **** of it", as it was pretty much said in the papers, police were on edge for a few months. One guy was shot while holding a soda can that was mistaken for a gun. A few officers lost their job. Nothing totally Rodney King style, but a few guys that lost a few too many freinds. Cant say I blame anybody in this one.
All of this kind of goes to say that guns are dangerous for just about any group of people, unless very carefull judgement is used.
30Hertz on 04/22/2007 15:47:23
If your in Law Enforcement your always on edge. Anyone can be out to cause harm to you and in the heat of things, subject behaviors tell it all. At night things are amplified because you can not see exactly what anyone is carrying.
One of my best friends is a Sheriff in Nevada in this small podunk town in the middle of the desert. Nothing there but a Casino, Army Armory, Methamphetamine Labs and Desert. They get a lot of crazy calls and one of them came in around 3am for a male that was out of control and making threats. My buddy responded to the call and as soon as the subject saw the car roll up he proceeded to run. A chase ensued and they ended up running down a dark alley by the casino. The male was holding something in his hand and had a pretty good lead on my friend. About 3/4s through the alley the male turned around with what looked like a 9mm pistol in his hand and started running back at my friend. My friend pulled his sidearm and shot the individual. As it turns out, the subject was a 16 year old male that was high on methamphetamine and had a toy gun in his hand that looked real. In these situations its easy to blame the police officer for taking a life, but people never think about the circumstances. Its very unfortunate but I would have done the same thing as my friend. At the end of the day if someone is charging me with what looks like a gun late at night, I'm going to be the one going home. I feel he did the right thing but he still thinks about that kid all the time.
-30
PS. I dont really know what this has to do anything explicitly but thought I'd share.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/23/2007 09:44:04
I wouldn't balem the guy at all, I probably would have fired in the same situation. I feel for your freind, as that would be a hard burden for any man to have to have. Maybe tweekers should think twice, or maybe at least once.
In that situation, I would definitely understand the circumstances. Meth users are some freaky mofo's. I hate to say it like this, but I say it's better with one less tweeker on the street. The kid could have gotten a few years older, a few I.Q. poinst stupider, a few notches crazier and a few grams higher, and really could have been a much worse problem.
I deal with several methies every night, and have to keep a constant eye on them. One of them freaked out today because we didn't carry quadruple-A batteries. Anybody ever heard of Quadruple-A's? I sure as hell haven't.
This is how it should be. Don't ban guns because of one idiot, give more people guns so that one idiot dosen't shoot so many.
Replies (38)
ttocs on 04/20/2007 09:40:42
absolutly! I think we should just start passing them out at the jr high level.......
I don't think giving more idiots guns will help anything.
cplkittle on 04/20/2007 09:56:20
what if one person in one of those classrooms had a gun at VT.
Not just handing them out, but allowing those who have permits to carry concealed weapons on state and gov't property (a secondary background check and three day class for the permit).
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/20/2007 10:01:17
I have mixed feelings on this one. I would have been nice if somebody was strapped and blasted that psycho, but keep in mind that said psycho was also a law abiding psycho with no criminal record.......
How about a ban against idiots and psychos having guns, and instead of a backround check, how bout numerous rounds of psychological exams before handing ou a concealed carry permit to judge one's mental stability before letting the pack any heat?
Like a charector from the movie "Lord of War" said...."A nuclear weapon is not a weapon of mass destruction. That will sit and rust in a silo. This loaded AK-47 is a weapon of mass destruction"
cplkittle on 04/20/2007 10:47:46
I believe in fair game.
Either everybody has a gun or nobody has a gun. When one person has one, the playing field is not fair anymore.
Since so many people have guns, including myself, I think everyone should have the opportunity to have and carry (with proper background checks).
Personally, I will not give up my guns because there is no way to ensure that everyone will. I don't carry mine around though. My .40 and .44 are on either side of the bed, and that is where they stay. My wife has the .44 believe it or not. And she has been taught well how to use it. Actually she has better aim than I do at 25 and 40 yards.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/20/2007 11:01:24
Thats one hell of a wife there! Can't argue with a woman that is a better shot though.
Who is to say what will become of gun laws. I know if they were gone, half of the lyrics of the music I listen to would be null and void..........
ttocs on 04/20/2007 11:25:20
yup. Everyone should have a gun strapped to them from age 12 up............ Males and females, nuns and priests, cheer leaders and mascots................ There should be cases on the side of the road with "break glass if your gun jams" and automatic rifles behind them............. I want to be able to go to circle K and get a redbul, a hot dog, and a 9mm........... wouldn't that really be a convience store and then they would never get robbed right!!!!! ITS A WIN WIN FOR EVERYONE!!!
So what about the guys with the rocket launchers, morters or grenades? If they have them shouldn't I have them as well? If I had a rocket launcher they would not use thiers right?
30Hertz on 04/20/2007 17:43:32
Good Idea except I dont believe this would fix the problem.
Reasons?
1. Not every person is a person with high integrity. Even if they have a clean record now they have a source of power in their hands and with power, comes great responsibility. A gun wielding power tripping civvy is a not a good thing.
2. Not everyone is trained to use a gun, and use it well. If someone was to go nutz, and someone felt they were in danger and during the altercation brought out their gun and started shooting are they going to be trained on aiming at the target? Are they going to look behind the target at what the bullet will hit if they miss or it passes through? Most likely not leading to more civvy casualties and property damage.
3. I'm going to be a police officer, and I dont really feel like having to worry about everyone I'm going to talk to having a gun on their person and if they dont like what I have to say, are they going to pull it out and attempt to shoot me? With the amount of criminals and illegal guns on the street as it is, I'm going to have it stressful enough.
While there are benefits to everyone having a gun, people just flat out wont understand the responsbility involved or the risks of having one. Every immature idiot that has no experience dealing with hostile situations most likely would use a firearm as a first option, not a last resort leading to more deaths and crime in this country. Yes everyone would be packing, but would everyone understand how to use it, and when it would be appropriet? No, a background check and a permit class will not teach the skills involved nor will it weed out the criminals with no records.
I vote no =)
-30
swez on 04/20/2007 18:07:35
This is pretty funny... where are all the Texan's when ya need one? Don't many of them always pack heat in their pick-em-up trucks anyway? Have seen a lot who do when visiting there.
Actually, it's been rumored that the Gov't does not want the average Joe packing a gun. If they had their way, all guns would be conficated and only the police, military, para-military and thugs would pack heat. Not a good scenario nor an effective crime deterrant.
To many, that's not only unconstitutional, but it also takes away the power to defend oneself against armed thugs. Personally, I do not own a weapon and to date, have never seen a true need for one either. There may come a day when some event changes my mind. (But not this one at VT)
Am wondering if making these events high profile issues in the news, (Day in and day out) are also a bad idea? Yes, we have the right to know what is going on around us to be sure. However, does this give too much information to a would be shooter in the future?
Take a look at the press and how they report so many details. They tell what was done, how it was done and show how unable authorities are at responding to such things in a rapid and effective way. Maybe I'm all wet here and that's possible, but suppose there were trained people on all major and minor campuses, (And other large public places) to be the eyes and ears at the scene. (Trained snipers, plain clothes guards and police) Would that help or not?
A quick history lesson... Kent State University in 1968? Look what happened there when a peacable crowd gathered to protest the Vietnam War. They had no guns, morters or WMD's. (Many women may have used IUD's, but that's another topic) Look how that turned out. ("4 dead in OHIO")
Then, look at Waco, Ruby Ridge and a few others I can't recall at the moment. The problem was just not perps having weapons. It was the military and police that got trigger happy and created a a bigger mess than if they had waited things out. Did they really need tanks at Waco? (Over-powering and excessive deadly force right?)
Think about all this with a view toward past history and how badly the military and Authorities actually handled them. IMHO, if you want to take out a dug in perp, use Special OPS teams who are very well trained for such events. Yes, they too make mistakes, but each time they review the case and study the events, new strategies come up and more training can actually limit loss of life.
Swez
cplkittle on 04/20/2007 22:33:57
It's tough to admit, but I agree to a large extent.
Maybe weapon permits should come with an IQ test, a common sense test, and a Rorschach ink blot test.. and I'm not trying to be a smart a$$.
I guess it is just hard for me to believe that people can do this sort of thing. I guess I am no better having been in a situation in Iraq.
Even after that, I know without a doubt that I could never just shoot someone for the hell of it.
I guess it will remain a catch 22 topic - damned if you do... damned if you don't. The NASA shooting hasn't helped things either. I am afraid to ask what is next.
Victor on 04/21/2007 01:43:55
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/archives/3135.html
cplkittle on 04/21/2007 02:54:47
82 year old former Miss America shoots out tires on burglar's car.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070421/ap_on_fe_st/brave_beauty_queen;_ylt=AqKIALX9Pv3y5AeQw9olWtYuQE4F
"She had to balance on her walker as she pulled out a snub-nosed .38-caliber handgun."
swez on 04/21/2007 03:34:54
Looked up her bio on Google... this woman has some serious spunk and was a very pretty gal back then too:
http://www.missamerica.org/our-miss-americas/1940/1944.asp
Swez
gearhead on 04/21/2007 04:03:10
If I didn't have a 12ga & 2 handguns, I would have been without my generators and 150gals of gasoline after Katrina hit. I had to "persuade" a few people to leave, that had absolutely NO business on our street at that time.
swez on 04/21/2007 04:28:01
Hehe, that's a different story and Marshall Law can't be everywhere all at the same time. Makes perfect sense to me... set up camp where ya can see everything and get cozy with a battery power radio, a cell phone and your trusty ol sidearms.
Better still, sit in a dark place, have a battery powered CB radio w/ and external speaker and if any come to close, "Hey... you don't belong here and you're trespassing at the wrong place. Move along or risk a few holes in your arse"!!!
Homeland Security has a whole new meaning to it huh?
Swez
jamesp on 04/21/2007 09:23:37
I have been buying, selling and trading firearms for many years.I have a nice collection of long guns and hand guns and always seem to have one or two close at hand. All of my firearms are sporting guns, either for hunting ,target, trap or skeet shooting and if necessary they will be available for protection of my family or others.
Unless I decide to cause damage, injury or death with these things they are not weapons. We can legally carry a loaded handgun in our vehicles. I dont take this responsibility lightly and would never show a gun with the intent of intimidating someone that irritated me in traffic or where my personal safety is not threatened. My father taught me not to point a gun at anything that I was not prepared to shoot and my dad and my grandfather before him had the Remington arms franchise around here for over 50 years. I remember as a kid that in order to get the best pricing on ammo, they bought it in box car loads. They loved to bird hunt and taught us firearm safety way before a hunter safety program was concieved.
I do feel that I would not hesitate to use a gun as a weapon to protect life and maybe even property. The law says that we are not supposed to use excessive force on someone that is merely stealing your life savings. Hmmm, dont know about that one for sure..dont want to find out... As I tell my wife, If some idiots try to do something that endangers us, I want to have any advantage possible and not be at someones mercy....and what if they only have a knife....well , as far as I know, Im definitly not a knife fighter...I would have to be the guy that brought a gun to a knife fight. not vice versa.
If any of us were ever put in a life or death situation by crazy or vicious people, I want to have a gun available...as the old saying goes I would rather be tried by 12 strangers than carried by 6 friends...
When we were kids, a gun was never considered a first line of defense for school bully problems and kids can be very cruel...but d@mn..I just dont recall ever seriously considering shooting someone that picked on me. What in the psyche of some young people has changed so much over the last 20 or 30 years?
Sorry for the rambling
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/21/2007 10:46:16
A lot has changed. Basically kids being raised by MTV, crackheads and too busy and otherwise strung out parents. The young psyches of minds has changed alot, definitely for the worse. I am dreading the day when the idiots of my generation make the business and political mistakes of the past look like textbook operations..........
Its funny though, on a cd I have, the quote you said meets its opposite. It goes something like I'd rather be killed by 6, than hung by 12 white blah blah blah random obsenities. Basically discussing running from cops. Maybe another reason the youth is so out there........ I like yours better though.
I was taught the same thing when I went shooting the first, and almost every time since the same thing. Don't pull out on anything your'e not going to shoot, and don't put your finger on the trigger until ready to pull.
Cant say I blame you for wanting to show up with a gun at a knife fight. Either way is pretty bad going, but it's always good to be well prepared.
ttocs on 04/21/2007 13:32:12
Ok, so we all have the right to carry firearms I know. and I would have no problem if everyone had the weapon that was to be considered for the time that law was made, the musket. I really have no problem with anyone carrying a big old long rifle that I can see from a distance, and can only be shot once a minute..... I am sure they had no idea that one day people would be able to carry, and shoot hundreds of rounds in a couple of minutes with a hand held gun.
I grew up in the boy scouts and was also taught how to use a gun properly at a young age and of course I enjoyed shooting then and I do now. I do not own a gun as I have no need for one as I have enough expensive hobbies. It bothers me that my neighbor could have a small arsonal at his house for any reason. What does the common person need a semi or full automatic weapon for? if you are target shooting then they only come out one at a time right? Since moving ot AZ I have met some guys that truely scare the heck out of me with the weapons they have and what they do. They put a AR15 in my hands and did not understand my confusion when I asked him what he hunts with it?
gearhead on 04/21/2007 14:04:55
"What does the common person need a semi or full automatic weapon for?"
What does the common person need a 1000w stereo for? Or a $5000 custom paint job on their car? Or (insert any luxury item)?Different people have different hobbies/likes/tastes. What does it matter, as long as there are no laws being broken?
swez on 04/21/2007 14:46:03
This topic is really making me think about a few events a few years back. Me and a few buddies were sitting around a small fire pot, sipping a few cool ones and just talking about all kinds of stuff.
A little while goes by and my neighbor's brother, (A known dope dealer) dropped by to say hello and whipped out his new 9mm handgun and a kilo of weed. My jaw dropped to the ground. He was talking a bunch of crap, how mad he was at his EX and bought the gun as protection when doing his dope deals.
Well, I looked him square in the eye and said... dude, you are welcome here anytime to chat. But the gun and your dope don't come here ever again. He looked at me kinda strangely at first, then I stood up and waved him over to the driveway and he came. I gently put my hand on his shoulder and said... "Ditch the weapon and leave your dope elsewhere. Then you can join us."
He was proud of his new toy, but I would not allow such things on my property. He looked a bit puzzled that I did not share his enthusiasum for this sharp looking gun. But he went back to his truck, put the heat/weed away and came back to join us as we relaxed. As it turned out, he just wanted to feel some power in the situations he had been through and just needed to talk things out. (He felt powerless is all)
OK, we gave him that and let him vent until he started to laugh. That was the end of it. He just needed to vent his upside-down life and have others listen. Once that was accomplished, he was relaxed, having some fun and left w/o an ounce of hostility left in mind.
It was a bit scary to confront the guy at first. But I had a hunch he just needed to vent. This time, everything worked out well. I cannot help wonder what he might have done that night, if we didn't give him time to vent and then talk/think things out in a rational way. He later admitted the clip was empty, but was not the issue. We don't bring guns to my little chat room... you are welcome here... but lose the heat and your kilo of weed first!!!
Dang, he listened and that was the end of it.
Swez
ttocs on 04/21/2007 15:37:10
RRRRRIIIIIIGGGGGHHHHHTTTTT SMILE.............
you made him take the weed out PROUD..............
I would have done the exact same thing GRIN........
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 15:46:55
hey swez believe it or not ....i havnt seen a gun rack in a truck here in texas in about ten years i believe....
jamesp on 04/21/2007 16:07:27
Quote: What does the common person need a semi or full automatic weapon for?
Although they are not weapons I have several auto loading guns.
I have 2 different caliber BAR's , Browning Automatic Rifles...they are not fully auto, they are semi auto and I use trhe .243 around here deer hunting and it is one of my favorite rounds. I use the .300 belted magnum out west for big game. I use both on the bench ocassionaly. Why would I want them? They are fine, Belgium made guns and are a work of art and examples of fine craftmanship,I also have a knife collection, a collection of old fishing lures and railroad pocket watches secure in my gun room.
Unless someone invades my home with malicious intent, my guns will cause no more harm to another than my pocketwatches or lures, unless I ever get to take Swez fishing and accidentaly foul hook an ear or something.
We can collect and admire anything that is legal to posess that we want to and still be normal, peaceful productive citizens with open minds.
Legal possesion of fully automatic firearms is expensive and once you pay the premium fee to own each gun, you also agree to random, unannounced ATF inspection. The ownerhip fee must be paid every year or maybe every 3 years. They are a lot of fun to shoot.
With my FFL, I was subject to random inspection of my business. This is a good thing. The bad guys dont sign the ticket and pay the fees and most have the intent of using the gun as a weapon, not admire the lovely curly maple stock
30Hertz on 04/21/2007 16:43:33
Regardless, while some people understand the power and responsbility involved in carrying a firearm (the older generations) the fact of the matter is this. With society the way it is now there is no responsbility being tought to the kids and teenagers. Anger and irrisponsibility are not met with consequences so no one feels any source of wrong doing or fear any consqeuences for their actions. Todays generations would rather resort to violence than to talk it out like a man because they feel they deserve the respect. No one is tought that you EARN respect and its not something just to be given because their afraid of you. While I agree, having a firearm is a source of protection, in no way should it be a comfort. Just because someone has a gun, does not mean they know how to properly use it, take aim and use it in the appropriet times.
Just a lil info: If your standing 50ft away from an individual and you have a sidearm holstered and that individual charges at you with a knife drawn, He can get to you, stab and slash you before you have time to draw your firearm, aim and shoot. Simple fact is yes, if your aware of the danger you can protect yourself. But if its in the street or a situation thats hit you by supprize having a sidearm is not going to be a failsafe. If some punk drew a knife and ran at me I'd rather have my Sap or a baseball bat than a gun.
People have a false sense of comfort knowing there is a gun within reach. With adrenaline pumping and the chaos of not knowing whats going on anything can happen, gun or not. Mistakes happen, people shoot family or friends when their worried someone is breaking in.
ttocs on 04/21/2007 17:21:04
I want to compair this to the current situation with iran. They SWEAR their nuclear intentions are for peacefull purposes, as you do your guns right? It is their "right" to be able to pursue nuclear power right?
My problem is that for every person that comes on here and and quotes rules from the gun handling guide there are 10 morons that are making the same arguments you are (its my right and its fo fun!)to carry the same gun you are. I am not saying you are a moron, just that your argument for guns carries as much weight as it would with a moron making it............ agian, too many morons out there to allow guns to be purchased as easily as they are.
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 18:11:08
word........
gearhead on 04/21/2007 18:17:00
And for every car audio enthuiast who operated their sound system responsibly, there are 10 morons that don't. So, should all of the responsible enthusiasts be punished by making it harder to purchase stereo equipment? I know it's not on the same level as guns, but I'm sure you've heard of the "slippery slope".
jamesp on 04/21/2007 18:49:03
It all comes down to responsibilty. I am responsible for my actions and so far my record, or lack of one proves that fact.
I have 2 children that like me have been raised in a home with both parents present, limits and boundries set, love and guidance providedI took the responsibility to do the best job that I could do with them. My son is 29 and my daughter is 19 and both are wonderful, intelligent people. Blanket statements about young people not having a proper home environment bother me. I know many like minded parents that have gone to great lengths and have done everything possible to raise thier children properly. There are too many that are not there for the children that they brought into this world
Ttocks, if you are referring to me in your post above, I never mentioned "rights" and never mentioned anything about how I felt about the ease that a gun can be bought by a person that intends to use it as a weapon. I have only described my situation and tried to show that even as a "regular person "why I might want this gun or that gun. Good people should be able to have what I haveif they want it and I have proven that I am that by the way that I have lived my life.
I was just telling a little about myself and some of the things that interest me, not making an argument for or against anything. In my opinion the Iran analogy is not valid. They are not playing by the rules and a statement like that also carries the same validity whether made by you or made by a moron.
If our government passes laws to help weed out undesireble people from buying guns I am all for it. Give everybody an IQ test. 96 or less is considered . umm,,,,.....moronic.......
ttocs on 04/21/2007 19:40:16
I can take that.
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 19:55:04
word.....
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/21/2007 20:40:20
I.Q. test......Great Idea.
Nice Collection there James. The B.A.R. is definitely a collectors piece that any enthuisist can appreciate.
I saw this fishing lure on TV the other day, and it was a this lure that looked like a real fish and had like 3 cuts in it to make it "swim" with a left and right motion. I don't even fish and I want one.
Nuts that some kid shows up with the strapola and a kilo at your house. I would say you handled that one pretty well, and I hope your weords of wisdom set his straight. Rollin wit a peice and a key isn't a great idea.....
Personally, I think the Iran issue is a interesting comparsion, as I dont think morons should have guns or nuclear capabilities of any kind. I thought nuclear power was pretty much shunned throughout the world as an effective method of power. Unfotunately, the odds of them making a powerplant with that is the same as some gun toting thug using his gun to hunt rabbit.
Who is to say what will come of this mess. Maybe we should start handing them out in 6th grade, and selling them at convinience stores. Convinience stores should package a 9, a box of bullets, brillo pad and baking soda all in one nice little package.
30Hertz on 04/21/2007 21:33:11
We all have our opinions on the gun control topic. I'm not against people having firearms even though I may seem that way by some of my posts. I do believe we need to have more control over who buys them currently and the rules and regulations involved in the purchase.
With my generalization of people not teaching kids responsibility or having consequences for their actions still holds water. While some of us have been raised in a household where both parents were there, and we were tought good lessons to carry out in life and molded into good individuals there are to many others that were not given the same teachings. I'll use the 10/10/80 rule that I use all the time. Its a generalization but for the most part its fairly accurate.
10% of the population have very high moral standards and would not do anything wrong, even if they were given the chance because of their consience and other contributing factors. 10% of the poplulation will allways make the wrong decisions and have contact with the law quite frequently. (These are the ones we see in and out of prison their whole life) The other 80% of the population will make a bad choice given the right opportunity (For example a good kid is shopping in a store, realizes no one is around and decides he's going to take a CD, Normally he would never do such a thing but because of the opportunity he made the wrong decision). Everyone makes mistakes, when there is a firearm involved the mistake elevates at a very fast pace.
Sticter gun controls are needed, at least in my opinion. People will debate both sides of the issue and we all have experiences for, and against gun control. The issue is more of a catch 22, you cant win either way unfortunately.
swez on 04/21/2007 22:29:58
Gotta love that B.A.R. James... and if one catches a hook in the ear, hand, skull or whatever, just deal with it, forget the cause and deal with the immediate at hand. Deal with the cause issues later.
Was up north fishing with a few young kids about 8 years ago and hooked a lively pike. Got it netted and when I got it out of the net, it flipped a few times and one of those large treble hooks went deep into my ring finger on the right hand. Blood everywhere dude and being in a tender spot, the 1st order of biz was to calm the kids down. (They freaked at all the blood)
Once that was done, had to grab some pliers and remove the hook from the lure that was still attached to said thrashing 8lb pike. We then boated in and took a 45 min car ride to the local hospital for extraction. Dang, that was over 1.5 hours before the hook was finally removed. (Should have see this Doc's tools... they looked like he borrowed them from the night shift handyman... LOL... rusty ol lineman's pliers) "Have these be sterilized Doc?"
But it all ended well though. Hook extraction was a success. But the strange thing here, even today, I still have periodic joint pain in that knuckle. Just certain days it will bother a tad and become a gentle reminder of how not to handle a fiesty pike.... use a good leather glove.
I now chuckle every time I look at that lure in my tackle box. Have not gone pike fishing sice either... Pikeophobic? GRIN
Hertz, I have to agree w/ your 10/10/80 comments, with a slight tweak of the numbers. (16/4/80) It seems that about 2-4% is a good number of bad-to-da-bone people out there. The 16% group will always take the higher road, regardless of the opportunity at hand or not. The 80%'er are generally disposed to be neutral in most cases. But as you say, given a need/desire and opportunity to take a wrong turn, they might if they are confident that nothing bad will come of it.
Unfortunately, crime often does pay off if one is predisposed to such options. If one learns to be a skilled thief, he can get all the cash he desires with minimal effort and danger to himself. It's when greed hits and they get sloppy, that's when bad things happen to innocents and perps too. (The element of surprise works for and against the perp too)
It's that factor that gages the outcome in many cases.
The 50 feet charge w/ a knife is an interesting scenario. We have about 4-5 seconds to react. The real surprise factor would be to charge him too. (A wild screaming charge) That would probably catch him totally off guard. Go to his limited reach side, (knife in his right hand, go to his left) That could buy just enough time to disorient the perp and maybe lay hands on something to equalize the blade.
Yeah, it sounds good on paper, but it would take extreme presents of mind and split-second thinking too. As we pass the perp, a sharp blow to the knee, (Tear his knee out) is often enough to lay the perp low, unless he's all cracked out. But even then, his mobility is hampered and buys time to either flee or get a stout pipe, board or whatever is handy and break his grip on the knife.
Sounds like a Hollywood script scuffle huh?
Swez Out
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 22:40:54
is this the car audio forum>>/?..........word.
30Hertz on 04/21/2007 23:12:56
The scenario I went over with a knife is something they teach at the Police Academy. With as fast and a person can charge you and cover the 50ft distance is faster than you can draw your weapon and shoot. There are things you can do but the issue their teaching is the fact that you should not rely on your firearm as your only source of protection. You have to remain alert, maintain your composure and never let your guard down.
Trunk, while this is a Car Audio forum we are allowed to discuss other topics as long as its not popstrous. It is ClubKnowledge =)
trunkisloud on 04/21/2007 23:25:46
right on 30......word
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/22/2007 09:50:26
30, I really like the 10/10/80 statement. With my expeirence in life, I find this to be pretty accurate. Maybe not quite the numbers, but the idea is pretty good. I like having a law enforcement view on the topic.
I have heard about the 50 yard scenario when a "suicide by cop" case hapened. An old lady (in her 60's) rushed an officer with a jammed .22 pistol, but had fired 2 shots at officers before it jammed. The poor guy pulled twice, and was before a very rough commitee on his actions. This was a very controversial case, as it occurred inside the newly annexed city limits, but outside of the county limits. The city I lived in was on the edge of the county. I used to whip around out there when I was younger and was teaching myself how to drive, because there was very little law enforcement activity there. Response time for the police was insanely long, and this lady was going crazy calling and threatining people.
Every time anything like that had happened in my city, the paper brought it up as examples for "suicide by cop" quoting a few examples where knife toting men had rushed police officers. Fortunately, officers already were weapons drawn at that point and all examples successfully had their suicide.
In Colorado, about a year or two ago, there were a lot of crazy police shootings. After this crazy guy shot a couple of cops, killing one, and really messing up the other, "for the **** of it", as it was pretty much said in the papers, police were on edge for a few months. One guy was shot while holding a soda can that was mistaken for a gun. A few officers lost their job. Nothing totally Rodney King style, but a few guys that lost a few too many freinds. Cant say I blame anybody in this one.
All of this kind of goes to say that guns are dangerous for just about any group of people, unless very carefull judgement is used.
30Hertz on 04/22/2007 15:47:23
If your in Law Enforcement your always on edge. Anyone can be out to cause harm to you and in the heat of things, subject behaviors tell it all. At night things are amplified because you can not see exactly what anyone is carrying.
One of my best friends is a Sheriff in Nevada in this small podunk town in the middle of the desert. Nothing there but a Casino, Army Armory, Methamphetamine Labs and Desert. They get a lot of crazy calls and one of them came in around 3am for a male that was out of control and making threats. My buddy responded to the call and as soon as the subject saw the car roll up he proceeded to run. A chase ensued and they ended up running down a dark alley by the casino. The male was holding something in his hand and had a pretty good lead on my friend. About 3/4s through the alley the male turned around with what looked like a 9mm pistol in his hand and started running back at my friend. My friend pulled his sidearm and shot the individual. As it turns out, the subject was a 16 year old male that was high on methamphetamine and had a toy gun in his hand that looked real. In these situations its easy to blame the police officer for taking a life, but people never think about the circumstances. Its very unfortunate but I would have done the same thing as my friend. At the end of the day if someone is charging me with what looks like a gun late at night, I'm going to be the one going home. I feel he did the right thing but he still thinks about that kid all the time.
-30
PS. I dont really know what this has to do anything explicitly but thought I'd share.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/23/2007 09:44:04
I wouldn't balem the guy at all, I probably would have fired in the same situation. I feel for your freind, as that would be a hard burden for any man to have to have. Maybe tweekers should think twice, or maybe at least once.
In that situation, I would definitely understand the circumstances. Meth users are some freaky mofo's. I hate to say it like this, but I say it's better with one less tweeker on the street. The kid could have gotten a few years older, a few I.Q. poinst stupider, a few notches crazier and a few grams higher, and really could have been a much worse problem.
I deal with several methies every night, and have to keep a constant eye on them. One of them freaked out today because we didn't carry quadruple-A batteries. Anybody ever heard of Quadruple-A's? I sure as hell haven't.
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