What's the matter with Detroit?
"...Let's start with health-care costs - the legacy costs. There are lots of retirees out there. They've earned what they're getting, but we can't afford it anymore. The world has changed. To use a GM number that I quote often, Toyota (Charts) pays $200 per car in retiree health care; GM pays a little over $1,500 a car. That's a tough albatross to carry..."
-Lee Iaacoca
Hey Lee, you don't think making unreliable cars has anything to do with it either :-)
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/04/30/8405437/index.htm
Replies (15)
ttocs on 04/16/2007 18:28:12
he is saying that as though his retirement is not on that tab as well.......... What do you think his retirement is worth??????????? How much does the CEO make now?
MrBrownstone on 04/16/2007 18:39:08
his retirement is probably less than the average VP gets for 6 months work...without options. He made his money decades ago.
cplkittle on 04/16/2007 20:40:36
factor in that they produce one vehicle per line every 44 seconds.
swez on 04/16/2007 23:27:54
Good read there Mr. B and yes, I think Lee is spot on in his accessments of the current conditions and where things might land for Detroit's Auto Business plan is really up for grabs.
Better engineered vehicles is one issue. Cost to build them is another and then the legacy costs associated with Union retirement plans are a big bite for everyone to chew on.
Another thing I like is Lee's candor. While he was in the forest, the trees were a blur. Now that he stepped down as CEO for Ford and Chrysler and watched things mature from a distance, I gotta believe he's seeing things a lot more clearly in all points of the compass.
I recall reading the comp packages of Big 3 CEO's and Execs. In the good years, they made a ton of cash based on sales and other performance related goals achieved. However, those record perks were at the expense of chopping heads at all levels. (Labor and cost cutting measures)
Yes, this city is in for a rough ride over the next 2-5 years as Labor Unions will be fighting hard for a better slice of the pie that they used to enjoy. (Why not? If you were paid a high hourly wage, had the best benefit package monet can buy and retire after 30 years with a very good pension, health care and SSI, who would not fight to keep that at a status quo)
I think the handwriting is on the wall though. American's are value and
price driven consumers on the whole. That's why off shore cars are selling so well outside of the Big 3 regions. Tor survive and then make a comeback, it comes down to making better cars, offering better warranties, cutting labor costs and managing legacy programs fairly. The Union has been a heavy noose around the necks of the Big 3
for many decades. They could absorb such things in the good years and everyone was fat, dumb and happy. (We all like that scenario) But since the new millenium, things are a changing rapidly.
Labor and Management have some very tough choices to make when the next contract comes up. The question will be, who is the strike target now that all 3 players are in the weeds? If it's Chrysler, they'll probably fold or sell off some interest to survive. GM is getting stronger, but lacks a complete plan to stave off Union demands as GM is in the process of major cuts in cost yet still provide quality and affordable cars that people will buy. Ford seems to have avery good corner on the truck and SUV market, but they need a few new designs in the car market that can hit the virtual "out of the park" sales they netted with the Mustang, Taurus/Sable and also make some big steps on MPG for smaller general transportaion offerings.
It's a real mixed bag and who knows just yet what will happen when the Union digs in for the next contract. Time will tell.
So much for news in Detroit, (Where are we going to be in the next 2-5 years in MI? Very tough to predict right now)
Swez
cplkittle on 04/16/2007 23:52:20
I think the biggest problem with domestic automakers is the unions themselves. That is why there are so many manufacturers in the southeast now, alot of them foreign.
Mercedes Benz - Birmingham AL
Nissan - Nashville TN
Nissan - Canton MS
Toyota - Georgetown KY
Kia - West Point GA (under construction)
Ford - Atlanta GA (closing)
GM - Doraville GA (closing)
There are no unions down here, and wages are less than half in most cases. On top of that, there are maintenance people that can do the jobs of all skilled union tradesmen. One man making $25/hr instead of a machinist, electrician, pipefitter, and welder all making $25+ sitting on their a$$ waiting for their turn to do 1 hour worth of work in an 8 hour day.
Don't get me wrong, I think the union is an awesome thing.. or was an awesome thing. I do believe they are a little too greedy. They do take profits from the company for their own pockets by inflated salary and crazy overtime multipliers, but this just falls back on the consumer who has to pay that much extra so everyone can make their money.
I think Detroit will be a ghost town in the next 20 years as automakers move south for cheaper wages by avoiding the union (for now).
MrBrownstone on 04/17/2007 16:30:05
Unions, good God! Don't get me or Swez started!!
NAFTA didn't help either where they can make a vehicle & import it from Mexico without additional tariffs :-)
I think that Unions had a purpose 75 yrs ago with people were working in cramped, unhealthy, polluted, unsafe conditions---that and when they weren't getting overtime compensation. However, after the brilliant inventions of OSHA & departments of Labor, all is well now, and they've outlasted their significance.
Now, all unions do is break the back of companies for more compensation. $26/hr to assemble a car? Toddlers do that for free :-)
jamesp on 04/17/2007 19:35:53
I dont quite get the statement that there are no unions down here. Both the Ford and GM Atlanta plants were union shops. except upper management. Guys coming into my store on Saturday making 30+ bucks an hour and bragging about stealing tools from the "man". The "man" that paid them 30 dollars an hour. I remember one Ford guy said that on Friday" they" brought in 300 cordless drills and he had one in the car. He said that on Monday morning "they" would be lucky if there were a dozen left.I told him I didnt like thieves and he said it wasnt stealing...go figure.
Atlanta has a huge electricians union. IBEW 613. Augusta has large union shops in all the trades for working the Savannah River Plant...got to keep enriching that ururanium you know.
Strange thing. When the asian auto makers open assembly plants in the states, they are non-union businesses and most of the employees actually like working there. The ones that steal stuff from work probably even recognize that they are thieves.
Sorry for the rant but IMNOS opinion a short time after unions interviened in child labor practices, they became corrupt and greedy
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/17/2007 21:02:45
Good old employee theft. Would the workplace be the same without it?
Unions can be tricky to deal with, as there is a big fire alarm union here. I was offered a job, but after finding out that if I join the union, get laid off or something, I can be sued if I seek a job in the business outside the union, for taking my union training and going elsewhere with it. I politely declined.
We don't have any plants for carmakers out here, so I am not too well educated on the effect of the union effects on Big-3 automakers, but I think unions in general where more effective as a whole when people where seeking "8 hours work, and 10 hours pay." Those were the days of the old Meat Packing industry, and those poor saps definitely had some "less than adaquate" working practices. Ever read "the Jungle"?
cplkittle on 04/17/2007 21:34:15
I was referring to the overseas auto makers.
One of my coworkers almost had us kicked out of a huge account up north in an auto plant when he picked up a screwdriver to tighten up a 24v wire to our circuitboard. He got yelled at by a union worker and was told that if he touched a tool again he would be asked to leave.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/17/2007 21:42:09
Man, thats nuts. What were you supposed to do if you weren't to touch any tools? Should have taken that screwdriver and...............
cplkittle on 04/17/2007 21:46:00
supervise.
Normally we do the installation. Can't do anything but watch where there is union.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/17/2007 21:49:20
That's crazy. So basically, if one of the peons you were supervising was putting something together wrong, and you needed to show him to do it right, you have to call in another peon to show him?
My bad, I didn't even think of supervising.
swez on 04/17/2007 22:05:08
You are correct Sir Brownstown, I do have a lot to say about Labor Unions and few of it is positive.
My Stepdad was a Ford employee and also a Union Steward for a time, until he retired. Of late, he and I have had some pretty good debates on the merits of Unions and their castrating effects on the Big 3.
He has told me many stories about what he had to do as a U/S and in pretty colorful tones too. As he was sharing a few events he was involved with, I broke in and asked... "Did you find that you have to defend the same kinds of lawless and deficient people very often?" He said yes, it was usually a small group of misfits that could not keep/ stay on their jobs, put in a full day and often caused lots of trouble, no matter what department they were assigned to. "Basically, they were real foul-ups." (He used a different word then foul though)
Did the quiet, came to work, do my job, get paid and go home guys/gals ever come for help. He said, not unless they had a problem with a co-worker, a boss or sexual harrassment issues to deal with.
Unions had a place in our history. They were needed to protect the average Joe/Jane factory worker from poor working conditions, ultra-low wages and company execs that abused the labor force. Once those goals were accomplished, the Union bosses like the feel of power they now had and prompted the masses of Union employees to keep them in power so that a new agenda could be established. We now see the results of those efforts too. Things have gotten well out of hand, broke the backs of many large companies who could not afford them and are now on the wane.
It's just a matter of years before the UAW is nothing more than a paper tiger w/ no teeth, little support and few members. It's sad to say, but as a younger guy, I was in the skilled trades and this group voted itself out of the Union after a long and wage losing spate of time on the picket lines. The older guys that taught me the rules of the game were honest, hard working and some were very intelligent men too.
Yeah, I confess that we, (me and a few of the younger recruits) did goof off a bit at times. Mostly, it was out of bordom, when not much work was available and we had too much time on our hands. However, when the boss gave out assignments, we hit the bricks and gave a great boss his satisfaction at the end of the day.
Keep in mind, this was between 1976-1983. I was 21 when I started in a factory and loved the variety of work we did each day. At that point, I was getting about $7.25/hr. At the end of my time in this job, (about 27) had been in college for 3 years, worked about 65 hours a week, carried 12-16 credit hours per semster and pulling down a 3.8 - 4.0 GPA in all classes.
No, I was not and am not all that smart either. (Many hours in the books) It's just a case of deep motivation to something better later. It was brutal and I had no social life at all. But it did prove one thing... "If one sets their mind to a big goal and is determined to the point of sacrifices, good things come from such efforts later." If I could do that, anyone can as well. It was worth every stripe to endure.
Swez
PS Believe me, this ain't a blow my own horn thing. It's just an example of how an "average guy" can do almost anything we set our minds to and are properly motivated inside.
onebluemcm on 04/18/2007 16:34:31
Just to go back to the very first post:
"Toyota (Charts) pays $200 per car in retiree health care; GM pays a little over $1,500 a car. That's a tough albatross to carry.."
Be glad you or no one you know are on the receiving end of this whole mess. What I mean is, case in point, my old man is a Ford retiree - non-union, was an engineer - and at this point in his life, when medical costs start to become an issue, there is much talk of Ford doing away with pension and health care - maybe not in full, but to some degree. My parents health care has already undergone substantial changes in the last 5 years, maybe less, because of the realization by Ford that they cannot sustain the above mentioned money situation. Not to get into the details, but my family was unfortunately at the wrong end of the huge stock market crash that happened, what, 10 years ago. For perspective, the amount of money lost took a life time to build up - if not gone, my parents would probably be financially autonomous for the most part and changes to pension or health coverage by Ford would not be as big of a concern. Regardless of the losses, there are many folks out there still trying to build up personal financial reserves (or as my family was dealt, are trying to recover from losses) so as to not have to rely on the government, family etc - if these folks are suddenly having to pay more in co-pays, of pay the full amount of certain health care needs, it's a huge hit that impacts late-life living conditions etc. The last thing I want to see is my late 60 to early 70 something parents, or any devoted Ford/Chrysler/GM retirees dealing with financial stress - folks in that age bracket, that have worked their entire lives and have probably given blood, sweat and tears to the motor companies, shouldn't have to worry about month-to-month financial issues. It's a mess - there is no question that the Big 3 have issues to over come, but how they do it and not alienate retirees and their families or get bought out by over-seas companies, I don't know.
As for Lee.........that guy probably has more invested and saved up than he'll ever need at his age and if he suddenly lost all pension, health care, etc - well, I'm sure he wouldn't have to move out of his mansion, where ever it is........this is REALLY easy stuff for him to talk about at this point in his life......
swez on 04/18/2007 19:00:50
Well said and I am sure many people in the same boat, are doing the best they can under a bad situation. My Stepdad is also a retired vetran of Ford. He has a modest pension, a modest SSI benefit check and is just now learning how to live w/in his means.
Yes, he made a small fortune over the past 35 years, invested some, (lost a ton too) bought some stuff and frankly, squandered a lot too. But what is really amazing, he is finally getting the word... we have to learn to live based on reality and that a dollar can only be spent once.
I too have lost my tidy reserves via divorce. Doing pretty well for a number of years and then, with the swipe of a pen, all gone. But ya know what, life is so much more than money, pensions, health care benefits and so on.
Also, many American's do not know the difference between a need and a desire or wants. All we really need is food, clothing, shelter, transportation and affordable health care. The rest is not a must have or we'll die. Take a good look at how most 3rd world countries live. Most have to scratch out a living or live off the land as best they can. But those who know how and have the resources, can be very content with this little amount. Unfortunately, those who don't often parish in the fight for survival.
Finally, it's easier for a rich man to endulge himself in every form he can afford. But in how many cases, are these people truely content and offer back to society something to help the lesser advantaged ones among us? Yes, we hear of some that do and I say Great! To those who have much, much is required of them in return. There's nothing wrong with being rich per-se. But it's the attitudes that often prevade the rich that turn others against them. They flaunt it, abuse others, take unfair advantage of those who struggle and so on.
Swez
PS If we get more details about this loner gunman, I am willing to bet he was fed up with the rick kids pushing his nose in it. No, I don't condome his actions under any situation, but something drove him to the breaking point. Wondering what that might be?
"...Let's start with health-care costs - the legacy costs. There are lots of retirees out there. They've earned what they're getting, but we can't afford it anymore. The world has changed. To use a GM number that I quote often, Toyota (Charts) pays $200 per car in retiree health care; GM pays a little over $1,500 a car. That's a tough albatross to carry..."
-Lee Iaacoca
Hey Lee, you don't think making unreliable cars has anything to do with it either :-)
http://money.cnn.com/magazines/fortune/fortune_archive/2007/04/30/8405437/index.htm
Replies (15)
ttocs on 04/16/2007 18:28:12
he is saying that as though his retirement is not on that tab as well.......... What do you think his retirement is worth??????????? How much does the CEO make now?
MrBrownstone on 04/16/2007 18:39:08
his retirement is probably less than the average VP gets for 6 months work...without options. He made his money decades ago.
cplkittle on 04/16/2007 20:40:36
factor in that they produce one vehicle per line every 44 seconds.
swez on 04/16/2007 23:27:54
Good read there Mr. B and yes, I think Lee is spot on in his accessments of the current conditions and where things might land for Detroit's Auto Business plan is really up for grabs.
Better engineered vehicles is one issue. Cost to build them is another and then the legacy costs associated with Union retirement plans are a big bite for everyone to chew on.
Another thing I like is Lee's candor. While he was in the forest, the trees were a blur. Now that he stepped down as CEO for Ford and Chrysler and watched things mature from a distance, I gotta believe he's seeing things a lot more clearly in all points of the compass.
I recall reading the comp packages of Big 3 CEO's and Execs. In the good years, they made a ton of cash based on sales and other performance related goals achieved. However, those record perks were at the expense of chopping heads at all levels. (Labor and cost cutting measures)
Yes, this city is in for a rough ride over the next 2-5 years as Labor Unions will be fighting hard for a better slice of the pie that they used to enjoy. (Why not? If you were paid a high hourly wage, had the best benefit package monet can buy and retire after 30 years with a very good pension, health care and SSI, who would not fight to keep that at a status quo)
I think the handwriting is on the wall though. American's are value and
price driven consumers on the whole. That's why off shore cars are selling so well outside of the Big 3 regions. Tor survive and then make a comeback, it comes down to making better cars, offering better warranties, cutting labor costs and managing legacy programs fairly. The Union has been a heavy noose around the necks of the Big 3
for many decades. They could absorb such things in the good years and everyone was fat, dumb and happy. (We all like that scenario) But since the new millenium, things are a changing rapidly.
Labor and Management have some very tough choices to make when the next contract comes up. The question will be, who is the strike target now that all 3 players are in the weeds? If it's Chrysler, they'll probably fold or sell off some interest to survive. GM is getting stronger, but lacks a complete plan to stave off Union demands as GM is in the process of major cuts in cost yet still provide quality and affordable cars that people will buy. Ford seems to have avery good corner on the truck and SUV market, but they need a few new designs in the car market that can hit the virtual "out of the park" sales they netted with the Mustang, Taurus/Sable and also make some big steps on MPG for smaller general transportaion offerings.
It's a real mixed bag and who knows just yet what will happen when the Union digs in for the next contract. Time will tell.
So much for news in Detroit, (Where are we going to be in the next 2-5 years in MI? Very tough to predict right now)
Swez
cplkittle on 04/16/2007 23:52:20
I think the biggest problem with domestic automakers is the unions themselves. That is why there are so many manufacturers in the southeast now, alot of them foreign.
Mercedes Benz - Birmingham AL
Nissan - Nashville TN
Nissan - Canton MS
Toyota - Georgetown KY
Kia - West Point GA (under construction)
Ford - Atlanta GA (closing)
GM - Doraville GA (closing)
There are no unions down here, and wages are less than half in most cases. On top of that, there are maintenance people that can do the jobs of all skilled union tradesmen. One man making $25/hr instead of a machinist, electrician, pipefitter, and welder all making $25+ sitting on their a$$ waiting for their turn to do 1 hour worth of work in an 8 hour day.
Don't get me wrong, I think the union is an awesome thing.. or was an awesome thing. I do believe they are a little too greedy. They do take profits from the company for their own pockets by inflated salary and crazy overtime multipliers, but this just falls back on the consumer who has to pay that much extra so everyone can make their money.
I think Detroit will be a ghost town in the next 20 years as automakers move south for cheaper wages by avoiding the union (for now).
MrBrownstone on 04/17/2007 16:30:05
Unions, good God! Don't get me or Swez started!!
NAFTA didn't help either where they can make a vehicle & import it from Mexico without additional tariffs :-)
I think that Unions had a purpose 75 yrs ago with people were working in cramped, unhealthy, polluted, unsafe conditions---that and when they weren't getting overtime compensation. However, after the brilliant inventions of OSHA & departments of Labor, all is well now, and they've outlasted their significance.
Now, all unions do is break the back of companies for more compensation. $26/hr to assemble a car? Toddlers do that for free :-)
jamesp on 04/17/2007 19:35:53
I dont quite get the statement that there are no unions down here. Both the Ford and GM Atlanta plants were union shops. except upper management. Guys coming into my store on Saturday making 30+ bucks an hour and bragging about stealing tools from the "man". The "man" that paid them 30 dollars an hour. I remember one Ford guy said that on Friday" they" brought in 300 cordless drills and he had one in the car. He said that on Monday morning "they" would be lucky if there were a dozen left.I told him I didnt like thieves and he said it wasnt stealing...go figure.
Atlanta has a huge electricians union. IBEW 613. Augusta has large union shops in all the trades for working the Savannah River Plant...got to keep enriching that ururanium you know.
Strange thing. When the asian auto makers open assembly plants in the states, they are non-union businesses and most of the employees actually like working there. The ones that steal stuff from work probably even recognize that they are thieves.
Sorry for the rant but IMNOS opinion a short time after unions interviened in child labor practices, they became corrupt and greedy
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/17/2007 21:02:45
Good old employee theft. Would the workplace be the same without it?
Unions can be tricky to deal with, as there is a big fire alarm union here. I was offered a job, but after finding out that if I join the union, get laid off or something, I can be sued if I seek a job in the business outside the union, for taking my union training and going elsewhere with it. I politely declined.
We don't have any plants for carmakers out here, so I am not too well educated on the effect of the union effects on Big-3 automakers, but I think unions in general where more effective as a whole when people where seeking "8 hours work, and 10 hours pay." Those were the days of the old Meat Packing industry, and those poor saps definitely had some "less than adaquate" working practices. Ever read "the Jungle"?
cplkittle on 04/17/2007 21:34:15
I was referring to the overseas auto makers.
One of my coworkers almost had us kicked out of a huge account up north in an auto plant when he picked up a screwdriver to tighten up a 24v wire to our circuitboard. He got yelled at by a union worker and was told that if he touched a tool again he would be asked to leave.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/17/2007 21:42:09
Man, thats nuts. What were you supposed to do if you weren't to touch any tools? Should have taken that screwdriver and...............
cplkittle on 04/17/2007 21:46:00
supervise.
Normally we do the installation. Can't do anything but watch where there is union.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/17/2007 21:49:20
That's crazy. So basically, if one of the peons you were supervising was putting something together wrong, and you needed to show him to do it right, you have to call in another peon to show him?
My bad, I didn't even think of supervising.
swez on 04/17/2007 22:05:08
You are correct Sir Brownstown, I do have a lot to say about Labor Unions and few of it is positive.
My Stepdad was a Ford employee and also a Union Steward for a time, until he retired. Of late, he and I have had some pretty good debates on the merits of Unions and their castrating effects on the Big 3.
He has told me many stories about what he had to do as a U/S and in pretty colorful tones too. As he was sharing a few events he was involved with, I broke in and asked... "Did you find that you have to defend the same kinds of lawless and deficient people very often?" He said yes, it was usually a small group of misfits that could not keep/ stay on their jobs, put in a full day and often caused lots of trouble, no matter what department they were assigned to. "Basically, they were real foul-ups." (He used a different word then foul though)
Did the quiet, came to work, do my job, get paid and go home guys/gals ever come for help. He said, not unless they had a problem with a co-worker, a boss or sexual harrassment issues to deal with.
Unions had a place in our history. They were needed to protect the average Joe/Jane factory worker from poor working conditions, ultra-low wages and company execs that abused the labor force. Once those goals were accomplished, the Union bosses like the feel of power they now had and prompted the masses of Union employees to keep them in power so that a new agenda could be established. We now see the results of those efforts too. Things have gotten well out of hand, broke the backs of many large companies who could not afford them and are now on the wane.
It's just a matter of years before the UAW is nothing more than a paper tiger w/ no teeth, little support and few members. It's sad to say, but as a younger guy, I was in the skilled trades and this group voted itself out of the Union after a long and wage losing spate of time on the picket lines. The older guys that taught me the rules of the game were honest, hard working and some were very intelligent men too.
Yeah, I confess that we, (me and a few of the younger recruits) did goof off a bit at times. Mostly, it was out of bordom, when not much work was available and we had too much time on our hands. However, when the boss gave out assignments, we hit the bricks and gave a great boss his satisfaction at the end of the day.
Keep in mind, this was between 1976-1983. I was 21 when I started in a factory and loved the variety of work we did each day. At that point, I was getting about $7.25/hr. At the end of my time in this job, (about 27) had been in college for 3 years, worked about 65 hours a week, carried 12-16 credit hours per semster and pulling down a 3.8 - 4.0 GPA in all classes.
No, I was not and am not all that smart either. (Many hours in the books) It's just a case of deep motivation to something better later. It was brutal and I had no social life at all. But it did prove one thing... "If one sets their mind to a big goal and is determined to the point of sacrifices, good things come from such efforts later." If I could do that, anyone can as well. It was worth every stripe to endure.
Swez
PS Believe me, this ain't a blow my own horn thing. It's just an example of how an "average guy" can do almost anything we set our minds to and are properly motivated inside.
onebluemcm on 04/18/2007 16:34:31
Just to go back to the very first post:
"Toyota (Charts) pays $200 per car in retiree health care; GM pays a little over $1,500 a car. That's a tough albatross to carry.."
Be glad you or no one you know are on the receiving end of this whole mess. What I mean is, case in point, my old man is a Ford retiree - non-union, was an engineer - and at this point in his life, when medical costs start to become an issue, there is much talk of Ford doing away with pension and health care - maybe not in full, but to some degree. My parents health care has already undergone substantial changes in the last 5 years, maybe less, because of the realization by Ford that they cannot sustain the above mentioned money situation. Not to get into the details, but my family was unfortunately at the wrong end of the huge stock market crash that happened, what, 10 years ago. For perspective, the amount of money lost took a life time to build up - if not gone, my parents would probably be financially autonomous for the most part and changes to pension or health coverage by Ford would not be as big of a concern. Regardless of the losses, there are many folks out there still trying to build up personal financial reserves (or as my family was dealt, are trying to recover from losses) so as to not have to rely on the government, family etc - if these folks are suddenly having to pay more in co-pays, of pay the full amount of certain health care needs, it's a huge hit that impacts late-life living conditions etc. The last thing I want to see is my late 60 to early 70 something parents, or any devoted Ford/Chrysler/GM retirees dealing with financial stress - folks in that age bracket, that have worked their entire lives and have probably given blood, sweat and tears to the motor companies, shouldn't have to worry about month-to-month financial issues. It's a mess - there is no question that the Big 3 have issues to over come, but how they do it and not alienate retirees and their families or get bought out by over-seas companies, I don't know.
As for Lee.........that guy probably has more invested and saved up than he'll ever need at his age and if he suddenly lost all pension, health care, etc - well, I'm sure he wouldn't have to move out of his mansion, where ever it is........this is REALLY easy stuff for him to talk about at this point in his life......
swez on 04/18/2007 19:00:50
Well said and I am sure many people in the same boat, are doing the best they can under a bad situation. My Stepdad is also a retired vetran of Ford. He has a modest pension, a modest SSI benefit check and is just now learning how to live w/in his means.
Yes, he made a small fortune over the past 35 years, invested some, (lost a ton too) bought some stuff and frankly, squandered a lot too. But what is really amazing, he is finally getting the word... we have to learn to live based on reality and that a dollar can only be spent once.
I too have lost my tidy reserves via divorce. Doing pretty well for a number of years and then, with the swipe of a pen, all gone. But ya know what, life is so much more than money, pensions, health care benefits and so on.
Also, many American's do not know the difference between a need and a desire or wants. All we really need is food, clothing, shelter, transportation and affordable health care. The rest is not a must have or we'll die. Take a good look at how most 3rd world countries live. Most have to scratch out a living or live off the land as best they can. But those who know how and have the resources, can be very content with this little amount. Unfortunately, those who don't often parish in the fight for survival.
Finally, it's easier for a rich man to endulge himself in every form he can afford. But in how many cases, are these people truely content and offer back to society something to help the lesser advantaged ones among us? Yes, we hear of some that do and I say Great! To those who have much, much is required of them in return. There's nothing wrong with being rich per-se. But it's the attitudes that often prevade the rich that turn others against them. They flaunt it, abuse others, take unfair advantage of those who struggle and so on.
Swez
PS If we get more details about this loner gunman, I am willing to bet he was fed up with the rick kids pushing his nose in it. No, I don't condome his actions under any situation, but something drove him to the breaking point. Wondering what that might be?
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