o.k. i bought a cheap xplod head unit at wal-mart
http://walmart.scosche-cars.com/products2/?sfID1=24&productID=1882&walmartProductID=5148257
and was wondering if this bass package would be worth my money.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-w7WSk2nTMt3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=208250&I=700XM100P
as you can tell imm not going for a high quality system. i just want some loud music. would this be an ok setup?
thanks for helping
Replies (15)
trunkisloud on 04/14/2007 00:57:03
you could do better but as you say...just want it louder....so i think it would be ok..
kirchatndftbl on 04/14/2007 10:58:32
if you want the sony subs you should go back to walmart and just buy them from there with the subs and amp might be cheaper
swez on 04/14/2007 15:06:07
After looking at the Crutch sub/amp combo, that amp is not the best fit for those subs.
Here, a Class D MONO amp would be a very good choice as it delivers full power at 2 ohm loads and is more efficient than any 2 channel Class A/B amp could ever be.
The subs can handle 200 Wrms/ea. Here, a 300-500 Wrms amp Class D amp would be a very good fit and often cheaper too. If you want to stick with all Sony gear, this amp would be an excellent fit for those subs. You'll make some noise with this amp and those subs:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OthM3e0UfWM/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=158XM1S
However, shop around a bit to find a lower price. Am sure you can find it for well under $200.00.
Swez
Victor on 04/14/2007 16:21:41
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-FWxZfS6ndkw/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=208250&I=700KENXW
this would be a better combo than the one u selected.. have a look, a single solid 300 wrms monoblock amp + a reliable 12" 4ohm DVC sub rated at 300wrms and with a high sensitivity of 93db though i think that must me a 2.83 volt @ 4 ohm reading rather than a 1 watt@4ohm reading, even then its a good 90db sensitive....
means more loudness at lesser amplification power... this sub in a good ported box made to specs would definitely sound louder than those 2 sony subs + sony amp combo.....
Victor...
or have a look at this combo,
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_8437_JBL+CS300.1.html#specs
and
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_3873_Kicker+DC102.html
there are many such products that you can select, you need to match them up properly and make a wiser choice than going for a sony package....
SUBS...
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_1491_Phoenix+Gold+R8.0-1.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6610_Cerwin-Vega+VMX-12.4.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_5355_Diamond+Audio+D612D4.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_4281_Alpine+SWR-1242D+-TYPE+R-.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_2525_Rockford+Fosgate+Punch+P312D4.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_5459_Soundstream+VGW-12.html
AMPS..
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6470_Alpine+MRP-M450.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6471_Alpine+MRP-M650.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_8570_Kenwood+KAC-8103D.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6188_Power+Acoustik+A1000DB.html
i guess those are enough choices to choose from..COFFEE
cplkittle on 04/14/2007 17:15:25
you hit that one head on, Victor. I have read several times that rating an amplifier at 2.83 volts gives it an unfair +3dB rating
"many manufacturers rate efficiency at 2.83V instead of 1W. At 8 ohms, the figures are the same, but for a 4 ohm driver, the efficiency is artificially inflated by 3dB, and you will need twice as much power as you may have thought." I can't remember where I found this, but I pasted it on my notes for my next DIY article.
Just another sneaky cheat manufacturers have found to boost their product specs. While it is impossible today to compare 'apples to apples', These guys take it to another level.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/14/2007 18:34:17
Wow, I had never hjeard of the2.83 volt rating system. I only knew the DB@1watt at one meter. Good to know.
brainwashed1212 on 04/14/2007 22:56:09
thanks guys for all the input so far. my friend said that the sony xplod deck i have doesn't have the right hook ups or something to run an amp through. is that true? can i run an amp through my current deck?
also is there an advantage to having 2 10"s over 1 12"? cuz my friend said you set each 10 differently to get an higher and lower sound that the 12 can't do.
trunkisloud on 04/14/2007 23:27:01
a 12" can do anything a 10" can do...only difference is the airspace.....and i dont think ive seen a newer sony deck that cant run an amp.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/14/2007 23:42:02
Yeah, all it takes is amp preouts to run an amp. Any modern aftermarket deck will pretty much always have amp outputs.
You could hypothetically run them at different frequencies, but that really won't help much. No offence Trunk, but I think there is some pretty big different in the movement tendancies of 10's and 12's. 10's will hit more rapid drum beats more willingly and accuratly, as the 12' will dump out more lower notes, at the cost of speed of cone movement. One 12 would probably treat you fine here. What kind of music do you listen to? This really helps to determine sub choices.
trunkisloud on 04/15/2007 00:09:18
let me rephrase.....setting up two tens different from each other is not a good idea to replace a single 12.....thats what i meant,,sorry.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/15/2007 00:44:11
Word trunk. I didn't think thats what you were gettin at.....
brainwashed1212 on 04/15/2007 07:37:42
i listen to mostly rock, but i like the occassional big bass of some rap.
kirchatndftbl on 04/15/2007 16:20:46
if you listen to rock i would go with 10's they will be able to hit most of the lows in rap depending on the frequencey but the 12s will miss many of the quick drum beats
30Hertz on 04/15/2007 17:22:29
There is a common misconception that the smaller the woofer, the quicker the response.
This might be accurate with the lower budget systems for the mere fact that the motor design is not optomized for use with every size woofer they have in that specific line. It should also be noted that 9x out of 10 your going to have the exact same motor on the 15" woofer that would would have on the ten.
While size does play a part in a woofers output capability, it comes down to some different factors such as the Motor, The MMS (the weight of the cone, surround, suspension) and the enclosure design.
The larger the cone on the subwoofer, the more mass the motor has to move, the harder it has to work to hit every note on key. If the motor is not build strong enough, you get the sloppy sound. This is more a problem in the lower budget catagory of equipment. The higher end equipment with a sturdy motor structure with a good suspension and the proper enclosure will NOT have a problem hitting every note on key.
Enclosure design also plays a huge role in this. IF the woofer is not in an enclosure that is optomized for its T/S Specifications then its not going to perform to its optimum capability.
I have ran numerous systems that have included eights, tens, 12s and 15" woofers. My single 15" woofer has outperformed other makes and models of woofers that were say a ten, or a 12. True, the larger the woofer the more air it moves which gives it more opportunity to create more SPL, but the size of the woofer does not affect its clarity if the motor is built correctly.
This is just a very brief rundown on this. I'm working on an Article that will dive into this more so keep an eye out for this. There will be people that disagree, but the more research you do, the more experience you have with different manufactorers with different products and the more you understand how the drivers work collectivly with their motor structure the more you will understand the compliance and the performance.
Hope this isnt to confusing.
-30
30Hertz on 04/15/2007 17:33:29
Regarding the different frequency set up on the subwoofers, I dont reccomend it. You can do it, but why? The mere hassle of having to build seperate enclosures and the tuning of the Xover isnt worth the return. A subwoofers operating range is pretty limited and will perform their function great if you leave them alone and just set your LPF at say 200hz or whatever your fancy is.
Now if your running a setup for more midbass, then you get a midbass driver and tune that accordingly, but running two subwoofers at different frequencies is not going to net much of a benefit, if one at all.
-30
http://walmart.scosche-cars.com/products2/?sfID1=24&productID=1882&walmartProductID=5148257
and was wondering if this bass package would be worth my money.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-w7WSk2nTMt3/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=208250&I=700XM100P
as you can tell imm not going for a high quality system. i just want some loud music. would this be an ok setup?
thanks for helping
Replies (15)
trunkisloud on 04/14/2007 00:57:03
you could do better but as you say...just want it louder....so i think it would be ok..
kirchatndftbl on 04/14/2007 10:58:32
if you want the sony subs you should go back to walmart and just buy them from there with the subs and amp might be cheaper
swez on 04/14/2007 15:06:07
After looking at the Crutch sub/amp combo, that amp is not the best fit for those subs.
Here, a Class D MONO amp would be a very good choice as it delivers full power at 2 ohm loads and is more efficient than any 2 channel Class A/B amp could ever be.
The subs can handle 200 Wrms/ea. Here, a 300-500 Wrms amp Class D amp would be a very good fit and often cheaper too. If you want to stick with all Sony gear, this amp would be an excellent fit for those subs. You'll make some noise with this amp and those subs:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-OthM3e0UfWM/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=158XM1S
However, shop around a bit to find a lower price. Am sure you can find it for well under $200.00.
Swez
Victor on 04/14/2007 16:21:41
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-FWxZfS6ndkw/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=208250&I=700KENXW
this would be a better combo than the one u selected.. have a look, a single solid 300 wrms monoblock amp + a reliable 12" 4ohm DVC sub rated at 300wrms and with a high sensitivity of 93db though i think that must me a 2.83 volt @ 4 ohm reading rather than a 1 watt@4ohm reading, even then its a good 90db sensitive....
means more loudness at lesser amplification power... this sub in a good ported box made to specs would definitely sound louder than those 2 sony subs + sony amp combo.....
Victor...
or have a look at this combo,
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_8437_JBL+CS300.1.html#specs
and
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_3873_Kicker+DC102.html
there are many such products that you can select, you need to match them up properly and make a wiser choice than going for a sony package....
SUBS...
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_1491_Phoenix+Gold+R8.0-1.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6610_Cerwin-Vega+VMX-12.4.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_5355_Diamond+Audio+D612D4.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_4281_Alpine+SWR-1242D+-TYPE+R-.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_2525_Rockford+Fosgate+Punch+P312D4.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_5459_Soundstream+VGW-12.html
AMPS..
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6470_Alpine+MRP-M450.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6471_Alpine+MRP-M650.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_8570_Kenwood+KAC-8103D.html
http://sonicelectronix.com/item_6188_Power+Acoustik+A1000DB.html
i guess those are enough choices to choose from..COFFEE
cplkittle on 04/14/2007 17:15:25
you hit that one head on, Victor. I have read several times that rating an amplifier at 2.83 volts gives it an unfair +3dB rating
"many manufacturers rate efficiency at 2.83V instead of 1W. At 8 ohms, the figures are the same, but for a 4 ohm driver, the efficiency is artificially inflated by 3dB, and you will need twice as much power as you may have thought." I can't remember where I found this, but I pasted it on my notes for my next DIY article.
Just another sneaky cheat manufacturers have found to boost their product specs. While it is impossible today to compare 'apples to apples', These guys take it to another level.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/14/2007 18:34:17
Wow, I had never hjeard of the2.83 volt rating system. I only knew the DB@1watt at one meter. Good to know.
brainwashed1212 on 04/14/2007 22:56:09
thanks guys for all the input so far. my friend said that the sony xplod deck i have doesn't have the right hook ups or something to run an amp through. is that true? can i run an amp through my current deck?
also is there an advantage to having 2 10"s over 1 12"? cuz my friend said you set each 10 differently to get an higher and lower sound that the 12 can't do.
trunkisloud on 04/14/2007 23:27:01
a 12" can do anything a 10" can do...only difference is the airspace.....and i dont think ive seen a newer sony deck that cant run an amp.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/14/2007 23:42:02
Yeah, all it takes is amp preouts to run an amp. Any modern aftermarket deck will pretty much always have amp outputs.
You could hypothetically run them at different frequencies, but that really won't help much. No offence Trunk, but I think there is some pretty big different in the movement tendancies of 10's and 12's. 10's will hit more rapid drum beats more willingly and accuratly, as the 12' will dump out more lower notes, at the cost of speed of cone movement. One 12 would probably treat you fine here. What kind of music do you listen to? This really helps to determine sub choices.
trunkisloud on 04/15/2007 00:09:18
let me rephrase.....setting up two tens different from each other is not a good idea to replace a single 12.....thats what i meant,,sorry.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/15/2007 00:44:11
Word trunk. I didn't think thats what you were gettin at.....
brainwashed1212 on 04/15/2007 07:37:42
i listen to mostly rock, but i like the occassional big bass of some rap.
kirchatndftbl on 04/15/2007 16:20:46
if you listen to rock i would go with 10's they will be able to hit most of the lows in rap depending on the frequencey but the 12s will miss many of the quick drum beats
30Hertz on 04/15/2007 17:22:29
There is a common misconception that the smaller the woofer, the quicker the response.
This might be accurate with the lower budget systems for the mere fact that the motor design is not optomized for use with every size woofer they have in that specific line. It should also be noted that 9x out of 10 your going to have the exact same motor on the 15" woofer that would would have on the ten.
While size does play a part in a woofers output capability, it comes down to some different factors such as the Motor, The MMS (the weight of the cone, surround, suspension) and the enclosure design.
The larger the cone on the subwoofer, the more mass the motor has to move, the harder it has to work to hit every note on key. If the motor is not build strong enough, you get the sloppy sound. This is more a problem in the lower budget catagory of equipment. The higher end equipment with a sturdy motor structure with a good suspension and the proper enclosure will NOT have a problem hitting every note on key.
Enclosure design also plays a huge role in this. IF the woofer is not in an enclosure that is optomized for its T/S Specifications then its not going to perform to its optimum capability.
I have ran numerous systems that have included eights, tens, 12s and 15" woofers. My single 15" woofer has outperformed other makes and models of woofers that were say a ten, or a 12. True, the larger the woofer the more air it moves which gives it more opportunity to create more SPL, but the size of the woofer does not affect its clarity if the motor is built correctly.
This is just a very brief rundown on this. I'm working on an Article that will dive into this more so keep an eye out for this. There will be people that disagree, but the more research you do, the more experience you have with different manufactorers with different products and the more you understand how the drivers work collectivly with their motor structure the more you will understand the compliance and the performance.
Hope this isnt to confusing.
-30
30Hertz on 04/15/2007 17:33:29
Regarding the different frequency set up on the subwoofers, I dont reccomend it. You can do it, but why? The mere hassle of having to build seperate enclosures and the tuning of the Xover isnt worth the return. A subwoofers operating range is pretty limited and will perform their function great if you leave them alone and just set your LPF at say 200hz or whatever your fancy is.
Now if your running a setup for more midbass, then you get a midbass driver and tune that accordingly, but running two subwoofers at different frequencies is not going to net much of a benefit, if one at all.
-30
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