I was searching over the forum here and found some really good stuff and had a question of my own regarding a 500/1 with my 12w6v2 in a prowedge box the final impedance is 2 ohms. I tried the input sensitivity test and set my input sensitivity to match the 31.6 volts AC but my bass sounds so low and worse off then before. Here are my exact settings on the amp.
500/1 infrasonic filter off, Q 0.8, Bass EQ off, center freq 45, boost +4(dB), amp lLP filter 12dB, filter freq 80(Hz), input voltage low, input sens. at knob pointing at 11 o'clock, signal sensing off.
Hu is Alpine 7995 with 4v rca output level. When I did the test I turned of mx and defeat off everything was flat inserted cd and removed sub wires from amp. Also note that the 500/1 is passing through an alpine mrp-f256 amp. Would that have an effect on the test regarding the input sensitivity knob adjustment?
Just would like some input on what else i can do or if their something i forgot and need to add.
The bass is just really weak even with the hu sub bass at +15 at max not hard hits just limp sounding even hip hop music sounds weak.
Replies (20)
trunkisloud on 04/8/2007 06:42:14
i know these amps are supposed to be "bad mutha effers" but ive had 2 of these on different occasions and they both crapped out soon as i hooked em up....probly from previous owners but when i tried to run them they both had the "low ohms" indicator lit up on em. i know i had em right but its like soon as someone hooks em up wrong one time theyre gone..so i really couldnt tell you what to do here cause ive never actually got to hear em play......did u get the amp used or was it new in the box?
swez on 04/8/2007 07:59:12
This is a pretty robust amp and the setup process will dictate your outcome. It can handle a wide range of input signal voltage and as long as you get to the 31.6 volts, the sub is getting 500 watt RMS power.
As for your filter settings, this may be the problem.
1. The LPF should be set at 80 Hz initially and can be adjusted to optimal performance as you dial in the bass engine (12dB/oct slope is fine in most cases)
2. The Infrasonic filter should be be set to match the port tuning frequency of the enclosure (That's often about 30-35 Hz.) If sealed, you don't need this feature and it can be disabled.
3. The Bass EQ system when enabled, try a "Q" of 1.1-1.6 initially, boost of +4dB is good and center frequency of 40-45 Hz.
I cannot say for sure here, but it sounds like your Infrasonic filter is set wrong. If set at 80 Hz., it will block all frequencies below 80 Hz and sound very weak. Make sure this filter is disabled.
Again, if this is the Prowedge CVS112RG-W6v2, it is sealed and the IF filter is not needed at all. That should put some life back into the bass performance that is now missing.
Swez
jamesp on 04/8/2007 09:34:16
jamesp on 04/8/2007 17:10:50
I am a bit confused as usual.
In the second paragraph where you describe your test method, you disconnected the sub wires from the amp.......are you adjusting the gain to reach the 31.6 V. I thought that you had to keep the load on the amp while playing the test tone when doing this. You may be describing another test or setup but if not I thnought that the speaker load or a resistor load with the same ohmic value had to be connected to the amp.
carnovice on 04/8/2007 20:02:55
Yes jamesp I was adjusting the gain to reach 31.6v. I put in the 50hz 0db on repeat and adjusted the gain knob to read 31.6 roughly.
Swez: I do have the infrasonic off. I dont have the bass eq on though. I will keep you updated if anything changes. Thanks for the help.
carnovice on 04/8/2007 20:39:08
Ok funny thing is I just went to double check the settings and I seemed to have mixed the positive and the negative wires just finished putting them back were they belong and it seems to work 100 times better.
It seems after the gain test that i need to turn up my volume more to get the same kind of bass that i had lets say at 50% volume max now at 65% it sounds cleaner and harder though. thanks for the help.
jamesp on 04/8/2007 20:42:06
Carnovice, if you had the speaker wires disconnected from the amp, what did you use to provide the load. My understanding of this process is that if your sub is wired for a 2 Ohm load or whatever, you either need to leave the speaker connected and measure the voltage at the speaker terminals on the amp or make uo a set of wires with resistors with the same ohmic load as your speaker(s) to properly measure the voltage.
I may be reading your original post wrong but it sounds like you set the voltage for 500 watts with no 2 Ohm load on the amp. If this is the case then once you hook up the sub (load) you would have less voltage at the same gain setting and not be feeding enough power to your sub..
jamesp on 04/8/2007 20:55:39
We were typing at the same time.lol...When I set my voltage with a 60 Hz test tone, I did as instructed and turned the volumne up untill it distorted then backed off a bit , while having the gain set low....Man, when I started turning the gain up to get the voltage right the volumne was brutal. It was buzzing my eyeballs and tickleing my ears pretty bad....
When you set the gain initially, did you have the sub disconnected???
Glad you got it bumpin now.
swez on 04/8/2007 21:40:21
Good as that was my next go to point... wiring/phase issues.
Jimmy, on the JL slash series, we do the voltage settings w/o speakers wired up. (These amps have been designed to set voltage target w/o a speaker load) It can be done with the subs wired too. But the voltage values may be a tad off because the voltage matching varies with the frequency of the test tone and woofer impedence values.
Hope you get that part... it's kinda technical to explain.
Swez
jamesp on 04/8/2007 21:51:39
Got it....only way to learn this is ask...will phase make a huge difference. I can change mine with the HU and one day normal sounds best and at other times reverse, sounds good,,,Go figure
swez on 04/8/2007 22:02:34
Ask away... that's what we are here for.
Phasing is most important when using multiple sub systems. Both woofers need to be in sync with each other, depending on the enclosure design used and sub placements in a given design.
Also, having the sub in phase with the main speakers matters too. Especially at the crossover points between sub and MB drivers. If these are out of phase, we get cancellations and that usually causes a dip in bass at the crossover points if they are out of phase by more than 90 degrees.
Here again, it's very technical to explain, but the main thing is to minimize or avoid cancellation problems at the crossover points between woofers and MB/MR drivers.
Swez
PS Thanks for the little note in the mail last month. You have fronted a nice WF5F fly line I have been eyeing for some time. Ever heard of Aquanova Premium Series lines?
http://cgi.ebay.com/WF5F-AQUANOVA-PREMIUM-FLY-FISHING-LINE-NIB_W0QQitemZ220075071484QQihZ012QQcategoryZ23819QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
carnovice on 04/8/2007 23:51:26
jamesp: I didn't use a speaker load. I did as described on the jl audio website.
Swez: I can't tell much difference when I mess with the "Q" between 1.1 and 1.6? Should their be a big difference or not much, playing by ear i cant tell. I also turned on the bass eq and same thing not much change in bass.
swez on 04/9/2007 10:17:24
That selector may not give you a dramatic affect we typically see in gain and HP/LP filter adjustments. In fact, it may be so subtle, only detectable at extreme settings or using test tones and an O-scope.
This feature is a Parametric Bass EQ/boost. The wider the "Q", the smoother the bass boost will be and less noticable. Narrow "Q" settings give a sharp bump at the center frequency chosen.
Also, since your only using a +4dB boost here, that is really not enough to see how much the other parts of this circuit work together.If you tried some addition tweaks and set the boost to say +10dB and then adjusted the "Q", then you would probably hear the difference in a meaningful way. Just be sure to do this at moderate volumes as that much boost is a big factor.
Swez
carnovice on 04/9/2007 20:30:14
So I redid the test again because i ended up changing the gain out of frustration and when i redid it I forgot to change the bass on the head unit and i had it maxed out to +15. I didnt take the time to change it so im stuck with that setting for know. thanks for the help.
swez on 04/9/2007 20:33:43
You bet and good luck as JL makes a fine set of amps. However, they are a bit more complex then lesser amps and take more time to dial things in just right.
Swez
carnovice on 04/10/2007 01:21:24
I have decided to take it to an authorized jl audio dealer to have it dialed in correctly. I will let you know how it works out.
swez on 04/10/2007 12:34:18
That might be a good plan and if you find the right installer, he may do it as a side job for you and accept a small token of your appreciation... (A few bucks or an offering of his favorite brew after hours?)
Swez
carnovice on 04/11/2007 02:04:53
Is it possible to blow an amp or sub if you leave on the mixed positive and negative wires for too long? It seems that the sub even when hooked up correctly with the positive on positive and so on that the sub is not hitting really any bass at all?
swez on 04/11/2007 06:07:11
If the sub coils are wired out of phase with each other, yes it could damage the sub and the amp.
Since this is a single DVC sub, (4+4 DVC right?) the correct wiring is both positive terminal coils are connected to the Pos output on the amp. Both negative coils are connected to the Negative output on the amp.
If wired in any other way, amp power will be deminished if the sub load is above 4 ohms. (Coils in series = 8 ohms and sub output is cut in half) If the coils are are wired out of phase, this will cause "very low output" from the sub, no matter what the amp voltage is set at. The coils would be opposing each other, cause the sub to heat up and could damage the amp.
Swez
PS If this sub is in good working order, the amp is in good working order and the amp settings are close to the proper settings, this system should sound pretty strong. If not, something in your setup is not kosher. It might be worth have a JL dealer Tech look at things so you don't damage the gear.
carnovice on 04/12/2007 00:24:56
So I went to an authorized dealer and he tweaked with the settings for about 15 seconds and told me that i need to get a larger amp for the 12w6v2. I said that this is the amp that jl recommends with the sub. He did charge me anything and that was it. I later looked at what he did and he just increased the gain way to much and moved the q setting to about 2.6. I have since readjusted the settings to 1.3 or so and lowered the settings for the gain.
I will go to a real authorized dealer in the next couple of days at al & eds audio. It was just funny to hear him say that i should upgrade my amp.
500/1 infrasonic filter off, Q 0.8, Bass EQ off, center freq 45, boost +4(dB), amp lLP filter 12dB, filter freq 80(Hz), input voltage low, input sens. at knob pointing at 11 o'clock, signal sensing off.
Hu is Alpine 7995 with 4v rca output level. When I did the test I turned of mx and defeat off everything was flat inserted cd and removed sub wires from amp. Also note that the 500/1 is passing through an alpine mrp-f256 amp. Would that have an effect on the test regarding the input sensitivity knob adjustment?
Just would like some input on what else i can do or if their something i forgot and need to add.
The bass is just really weak even with the hu sub bass at +15 at max not hard hits just limp sounding even hip hop music sounds weak.
Replies (20)
trunkisloud on 04/8/2007 06:42:14
i know these amps are supposed to be "bad mutha effers" but ive had 2 of these on different occasions and they both crapped out soon as i hooked em up....probly from previous owners but when i tried to run them they both had the "low ohms" indicator lit up on em. i know i had em right but its like soon as someone hooks em up wrong one time theyre gone..so i really couldnt tell you what to do here cause ive never actually got to hear em play......did u get the amp used or was it new in the box?
swez on 04/8/2007 07:59:12
This is a pretty robust amp and the setup process will dictate your outcome. It can handle a wide range of input signal voltage and as long as you get to the 31.6 volts, the sub is getting 500 watt RMS power.
As for your filter settings, this may be the problem.
1. The LPF should be set at 80 Hz initially and can be adjusted to optimal performance as you dial in the bass engine (12dB/oct slope is fine in most cases)
2. The Infrasonic filter should be be set to match the port tuning frequency of the enclosure (That's often about 30-35 Hz.) If sealed, you don't need this feature and it can be disabled.
3. The Bass EQ system when enabled, try a "Q" of 1.1-1.6 initially, boost of +4dB is good and center frequency of 40-45 Hz.
I cannot say for sure here, but it sounds like your Infrasonic filter is set wrong. If set at 80 Hz., it will block all frequencies below 80 Hz and sound very weak. Make sure this filter is disabled.
Again, if this is the Prowedge CVS112RG-W6v2, it is sealed and the IF filter is not needed at all. That should put some life back into the bass performance that is now missing.
Swez
jamesp on 04/8/2007 09:34:16
jamesp on 04/8/2007 17:10:50
I am a bit confused as usual.
In the second paragraph where you describe your test method, you disconnected the sub wires from the amp.......are you adjusting the gain to reach the 31.6 V. I thought that you had to keep the load on the amp while playing the test tone when doing this. You may be describing another test or setup but if not I thnought that the speaker load or a resistor load with the same ohmic value had to be connected to the amp.
carnovice on 04/8/2007 20:02:55
Yes jamesp I was adjusting the gain to reach 31.6v. I put in the 50hz 0db on repeat and adjusted the gain knob to read 31.6 roughly.
Swez: I do have the infrasonic off. I dont have the bass eq on though. I will keep you updated if anything changes. Thanks for the help.
carnovice on 04/8/2007 20:39:08
Ok funny thing is I just went to double check the settings and I seemed to have mixed the positive and the negative wires just finished putting them back were they belong and it seems to work 100 times better.
It seems after the gain test that i need to turn up my volume more to get the same kind of bass that i had lets say at 50% volume max now at 65% it sounds cleaner and harder though. thanks for the help.
jamesp on 04/8/2007 20:42:06
Carnovice, if you had the speaker wires disconnected from the amp, what did you use to provide the load. My understanding of this process is that if your sub is wired for a 2 Ohm load or whatever, you either need to leave the speaker connected and measure the voltage at the speaker terminals on the amp or make uo a set of wires with resistors with the same ohmic load as your speaker(s) to properly measure the voltage.
I may be reading your original post wrong but it sounds like you set the voltage for 500 watts with no 2 Ohm load on the amp. If this is the case then once you hook up the sub (load) you would have less voltage at the same gain setting and not be feeding enough power to your sub..
jamesp on 04/8/2007 20:55:39
We were typing at the same time.lol...When I set my voltage with a 60 Hz test tone, I did as instructed and turned the volumne up untill it distorted then backed off a bit , while having the gain set low....Man, when I started turning the gain up to get the voltage right the volumne was brutal. It was buzzing my eyeballs and tickleing my ears pretty bad....
When you set the gain initially, did you have the sub disconnected???
Glad you got it bumpin now.
swez on 04/8/2007 21:40:21
Good as that was my next go to point... wiring/phase issues.
Jimmy, on the JL slash series, we do the voltage settings w/o speakers wired up. (These amps have been designed to set voltage target w/o a speaker load) It can be done with the subs wired too. But the voltage values may be a tad off because the voltage matching varies with the frequency of the test tone and woofer impedence values.
Hope you get that part... it's kinda technical to explain.
Swez
jamesp on 04/8/2007 21:51:39
Got it....only way to learn this is ask...will phase make a huge difference. I can change mine with the HU and one day normal sounds best and at other times reverse, sounds good,,,Go figure
swez on 04/8/2007 22:02:34
Ask away... that's what we are here for.
Phasing is most important when using multiple sub systems. Both woofers need to be in sync with each other, depending on the enclosure design used and sub placements in a given design.
Also, having the sub in phase with the main speakers matters too. Especially at the crossover points between sub and MB drivers. If these are out of phase, we get cancellations and that usually causes a dip in bass at the crossover points if they are out of phase by more than 90 degrees.
Here again, it's very technical to explain, but the main thing is to minimize or avoid cancellation problems at the crossover points between woofers and MB/MR drivers.
Swez
PS Thanks for the little note in the mail last month. You have fronted a nice WF5F fly line I have been eyeing for some time. Ever heard of Aquanova Premium Series lines?
http://cgi.ebay.com/WF5F-AQUANOVA-PREMIUM-FLY-FISHING-LINE-NIB_W0QQitemZ220075071484QQihZ012QQcategoryZ23819QQtcZphotoQQcmdZViewItem
carnovice on 04/8/2007 23:51:26
jamesp: I didn't use a speaker load. I did as described on the jl audio website.
Swez: I can't tell much difference when I mess with the "Q" between 1.1 and 1.6? Should their be a big difference or not much, playing by ear i cant tell. I also turned on the bass eq and same thing not much change in bass.
swez on 04/9/2007 10:17:24
That selector may not give you a dramatic affect we typically see in gain and HP/LP filter adjustments. In fact, it may be so subtle, only detectable at extreme settings or using test tones and an O-scope.
This feature is a Parametric Bass EQ/boost. The wider the "Q", the smoother the bass boost will be and less noticable. Narrow "Q" settings give a sharp bump at the center frequency chosen.
Also, since your only using a +4dB boost here, that is really not enough to see how much the other parts of this circuit work together.If you tried some addition tweaks and set the boost to say +10dB and then adjusted the "Q", then you would probably hear the difference in a meaningful way. Just be sure to do this at moderate volumes as that much boost is a big factor.
Swez
carnovice on 04/9/2007 20:30:14
So I redid the test again because i ended up changing the gain out of frustration and when i redid it I forgot to change the bass on the head unit and i had it maxed out to +15. I didnt take the time to change it so im stuck with that setting for know. thanks for the help.
swez on 04/9/2007 20:33:43
You bet and good luck as JL makes a fine set of amps. However, they are a bit more complex then lesser amps and take more time to dial things in just right.
Swez
carnovice on 04/10/2007 01:21:24
I have decided to take it to an authorized jl audio dealer to have it dialed in correctly. I will let you know how it works out.
swez on 04/10/2007 12:34:18
That might be a good plan and if you find the right installer, he may do it as a side job for you and accept a small token of your appreciation... (A few bucks or an offering of his favorite brew after hours?)
Swez
carnovice on 04/11/2007 02:04:53
Is it possible to blow an amp or sub if you leave on the mixed positive and negative wires for too long? It seems that the sub even when hooked up correctly with the positive on positive and so on that the sub is not hitting really any bass at all?
swez on 04/11/2007 06:07:11
If the sub coils are wired out of phase with each other, yes it could damage the sub and the amp.
Since this is a single DVC sub, (4+4 DVC right?) the correct wiring is both positive terminal coils are connected to the Pos output on the amp. Both negative coils are connected to the Negative output on the amp.
If wired in any other way, amp power will be deminished if the sub load is above 4 ohms. (Coils in series = 8 ohms and sub output is cut in half) If the coils are are wired out of phase, this will cause "very low output" from the sub, no matter what the amp voltage is set at. The coils would be opposing each other, cause the sub to heat up and could damage the amp.
Swez
PS If this sub is in good working order, the amp is in good working order and the amp settings are close to the proper settings, this system should sound pretty strong. If not, something in your setup is not kosher. It might be worth have a JL dealer Tech look at things so you don't damage the gear.
carnovice on 04/12/2007 00:24:56
So I went to an authorized dealer and he tweaked with the settings for about 15 seconds and told me that i need to get a larger amp for the 12w6v2. I said that this is the amp that jl recommends with the sub. He did charge me anything and that was it. I later looked at what he did and he just increased the gain way to much and moved the q setting to about 2.6. I have since readjusted the settings to 1.3 or so and lowered the settings for the gain.
I will go to a real authorized dealer in the next couple of days at al & eds audio. It was just funny to hear him say that i should upgrade my amp.
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