I was thinking about adding another set of components to my front stage. I will probably either wire the new speakers in parallel to 2 ohms, or buy another amplifier to power them. But while planning this out, a question arose..
Can you wire 2 sets of components in series through the crossovers? I'm not sure how the crossovers use the current, do they act like speaker voice coils, or does the current go through the crossover electronics, then to the speaker, and back through the crossover?
Replies (6)
30Hertz on 04/8/2007 00:41:51
I believe current runs through the Xover filtering out the frequencies then back through after. To me it wouldnt make sense to have them like a seperate VC due to the fact that the internal components are based off the different resistances within the components to filter out the different frequencies.
Correct me if im wrong tho lol
swez on 04/8/2007 08:28:39
Right on 30 Hz... the crossovers are designed to work specifically with a given load from the speakers. If we adjust the speaker load from a designed 4 ohms to another ohmic load, the crossover points will change in ways that you won't like the results.
Passive crossovers are grouping of specific valued coils, caps and impedence matching resistors. The values of each cap, coil and resistor is calibrated to the ohmic load for the speakers, (Load output side) it was designed for. If we change that ohmic load to the output stage of the crossovers, (Higher or lower impedence) the crossover points will also change.
If you wish to add Component speakers along with the speakers installed now, use separate crossovers for each and tap the input side of the exsisting crossover for your add on Comps. This way, the amp sees a net 2 ohms but the crossover performance will not be affected as the load at the output side of each crossover has not changed.
It might be better to remove the present front speakers and crossovers and use a 2 ohm Comp system. (JBL or Infinity has them) This maximizes your amp output power and does not degrade overall speaker performance. The more speakers and networks used, the greater your chances of phase cancellations, out of phase speakers and sound degradation to the front stage. Less is often more when it comes to how many drivers are used in the front stage.
FYI: If your system is lacking good MB performance now, the Infinity or JBL 2 ohm Comps can make a big improvement. Another option to consider, would be the Diamond Hex 3-way system. The Diamond Hex Series will allow you to add a separate MB woofer and does all the MB fill for you.
Did you get all that?
Swez
cplkittle on 04/8/2007 12:22:47
I have looked at the hex 3 way systems, I have the HEX components, and they have the RAF output on the crossover. The RAF output is low voltage (preamp). Was not happy with the idea of having to amplify them.
My origional question was not to run a set of midbass drivers in series on the same crossover, but to wire two crossovers in series on the same channel of the amplifier. (two sets of components).
I didn't know if the signal going into crossover 1, out of xover1 into xover2, out of over2 and back to the amplifier would make the crossovers react differently or not.
If I do add another pair of components, the two sets of xovers will be wired in parallel to a 2 ohm load on the amplifier. I was just thinking of all of the options and trying to avoid any noise (dropping the ohm load by 1/2 doubles the THD). The only reason I thought of wiring them into an 8 ohm load was because I don't necessarily need it to be louder, I just want a fuller sound. A flood of sound in the front stage to the point that it would be impossible to close your eyes and tell where the speakers were just by listening. I want 360 degree sound not a front stage with a strong left and right. I want to sit in my car and turn on the radio and feel like I am sitting in the middle of an orchestra.
Not to be redundant, but have you ever seen an 11.2 dolby setup?
2 of the speakers are left and right channels in the celing. That is the kid of listening experience I want.
swez on 04/8/2007 12:54:45
W/o a diagram or schematic, am having a difficult time picturing what you have in mind. Also, I can see wiring 2 sets of Comps and their crossovers in parallel to a given amp channel if they do not go below 2 ohms. But if crossover A is wired in series to crossover B, it should work if you use the diagram below.
I think it can be done, as the amp signal will just pass through the input side of each crossover and the outputs of each crossover will do their normal jobs accordingly. However, if one crossover goes kaput, the amp signal will be lost to both crossovers and Comps in series and you will have no sound at all on that side. Let's see if we can map this out:
Amp Pos..........[+ -]..........[+ -]........Amp Neg
OK, these are just the input side of each crossover in series and I cannot see any reason why not to run them in this manner if you wish. The business side of the crossovers are wired to your speakers. It should not matter how you wire the inputs. (Series or parallel)
The only thing is, wiring in this manner will probably show the amp an 8 ohm load per channel. Since there are internal resistors, caps and coils in each crossover, you will probably not be able to get an accurate ohmic measurement with an ohmeter. Try a test wiring and see how it goes. The fall back position if it does not sound good, wire your crossovers in parallel to each amp channel.
Swez
ttocs on 04/8/2007 13:19:59
the RAF section in the hex set is made to go straight to the speaker I thought, I didn't think it needed amplification........
swez on 04/8/2007 13:50:13
That's how I read it too, the last time I looked at that system in detail. The RAF is just a rear fill tap off the main crossover network to allow another driver to be added w/o affecting the main crossover. It's not a preamp. It's actually a passive pass through network for add on speakers. (Not sure if these are MB filtered or full range though)
Swez
Can you wire 2 sets of components in series through the crossovers? I'm not sure how the crossovers use the current, do they act like speaker voice coils, or does the current go through the crossover electronics, then to the speaker, and back through the crossover?
Replies (6)
30Hertz on 04/8/2007 00:41:51
I believe current runs through the Xover filtering out the frequencies then back through after. To me it wouldnt make sense to have them like a seperate VC due to the fact that the internal components are based off the different resistances within the components to filter out the different frequencies.
Correct me if im wrong tho lol
swez on 04/8/2007 08:28:39
Right on 30 Hz... the crossovers are designed to work specifically with a given load from the speakers. If we adjust the speaker load from a designed 4 ohms to another ohmic load, the crossover points will change in ways that you won't like the results.
Passive crossovers are grouping of specific valued coils, caps and impedence matching resistors. The values of each cap, coil and resistor is calibrated to the ohmic load for the speakers, (Load output side) it was designed for. If we change that ohmic load to the output stage of the crossovers, (Higher or lower impedence) the crossover points will also change.
If you wish to add Component speakers along with the speakers installed now, use separate crossovers for each and tap the input side of the exsisting crossover for your add on Comps. This way, the amp sees a net 2 ohms but the crossover performance will not be affected as the load at the output side of each crossover has not changed.
It might be better to remove the present front speakers and crossovers and use a 2 ohm Comp system. (JBL or Infinity has them) This maximizes your amp output power and does not degrade overall speaker performance. The more speakers and networks used, the greater your chances of phase cancellations, out of phase speakers and sound degradation to the front stage. Less is often more when it comes to how many drivers are used in the front stage.
FYI: If your system is lacking good MB performance now, the Infinity or JBL 2 ohm Comps can make a big improvement. Another option to consider, would be the Diamond Hex 3-way system. The Diamond Hex Series will allow you to add a separate MB woofer and does all the MB fill for you.
Did you get all that?
Swez
cplkittle on 04/8/2007 12:22:47
I have looked at the hex 3 way systems, I have the HEX components, and they have the RAF output on the crossover. The RAF output is low voltage (preamp). Was not happy with the idea of having to amplify them.
My origional question was not to run a set of midbass drivers in series on the same crossover, but to wire two crossovers in series on the same channel of the amplifier. (two sets of components).
I didn't know if the signal going into crossover 1, out of xover1 into xover2, out of over2 and back to the amplifier would make the crossovers react differently or not.
If I do add another pair of components, the two sets of xovers will be wired in parallel to a 2 ohm load on the amplifier. I was just thinking of all of the options and trying to avoid any noise (dropping the ohm load by 1/2 doubles the THD). The only reason I thought of wiring them into an 8 ohm load was because I don't necessarily need it to be louder, I just want a fuller sound. A flood of sound in the front stage to the point that it would be impossible to close your eyes and tell where the speakers were just by listening. I want 360 degree sound not a front stage with a strong left and right. I want to sit in my car and turn on the radio and feel like I am sitting in the middle of an orchestra.
Not to be redundant, but have you ever seen an 11.2 dolby setup?
2 of the speakers are left and right channels in the celing. That is the kid of listening experience I want.
swez on 04/8/2007 12:54:45
W/o a diagram or schematic, am having a difficult time picturing what you have in mind. Also, I can see wiring 2 sets of Comps and their crossovers in parallel to a given amp channel if they do not go below 2 ohms. But if crossover A is wired in series to crossover B, it should work if you use the diagram below.
I think it can be done, as the amp signal will just pass through the input side of each crossover and the outputs of each crossover will do their normal jobs accordingly. However, if one crossover goes kaput, the amp signal will be lost to both crossovers and Comps in series and you will have no sound at all on that side. Let's see if we can map this out:
Amp Pos..........[+ -]..........[+ -]........Amp Neg
OK, these are just the input side of each crossover in series and I cannot see any reason why not to run them in this manner if you wish. The business side of the crossovers are wired to your speakers. It should not matter how you wire the inputs. (Series or parallel)
The only thing is, wiring in this manner will probably show the amp an 8 ohm load per channel. Since there are internal resistors, caps and coils in each crossover, you will probably not be able to get an accurate ohmic measurement with an ohmeter. Try a test wiring and see how it goes. The fall back position if it does not sound good, wire your crossovers in parallel to each amp channel.
Swez
ttocs on 04/8/2007 13:19:59
the RAF section in the hex set is made to go straight to the speaker I thought, I didn't think it needed amplification........
swez on 04/8/2007 13:50:13
That's how I read it too, the last time I looked at that system in detail. The RAF is just a rear fill tap off the main crossover network to allow another driver to be added w/o affecting the main crossover. It's not a preamp. It's actually a passive pass through network for add on speakers. (Not sure if these are MB filtered or full range though)
Swez
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