Hi all, i would really like to know what RMS really is and what amp and enclosure should i use to hook up two Cerwin Vega Vmax 12" 600w each RMS subwoofers. Also, which split system works best and is it really better to use 4 mids with two tweeters rather than two 6x9's and a split system altogether.
The funny thins is that when I bought these subs, the shop assistant didnt have any answers to my questions, which brings me to this forum.
Any help is appreciated....
Replies (23)
cplkittle on 04/3/2007 10:03:36
RMS stands for Root Mean Squared. It is a mathematical term for a method of calculating power handling. According to the methods used to determine RMS, RMS is equal to 70.7% of the maximum power the amplifier puts out.
In car audio today, most of the time you see RMS as half of peak power. (500w RMS, 1000w peak). This is just a generalization companies use to make it easier to match up subs with amps, and at the same time boost their output claims. An amplifier with a rating of 700watts RMS should have a peak output of 1000watts (mathmatically) but instead, they bump that number on up to 1400watts.
swez on 04/3/2007 10:05:36
RMS is often considered Continous Power Handling or output of an amplifier. In practice, we look at the RMS value ratings over Peak ratings.
RMS, (Root-Mean Squared) is a mathmatical equvilent to DC power. We don't need that much detail to understand a good fit between amps and speakers, but it's out there if you want to dig deeper. The short form... look at RMS values when selecting various gear.
In the case mentioned above, a sub amp with a rated power of 1200 Watts RMS, would be a good fit for these subs. However, the power draw from the car electricals for this output level will be substantial and over the limits of a stock electrical system. It would be wise and cost effective to use only one ported sub and a well matched Class D amp.
Not surpirsed the salesman that sold you the subs was clueless on such things. Most are in the same boat and don't have a deep enough background in 12 volt Audio to lead buyers to optimal choices. Can you return 1 sub for credit and buy other things from them that will work in your present car?
Splits are nice in the front doors or even kick panels for front stage use. They should be amped as well, to get the most from them. Do you know the stock speaker size used up front?
Tell us more about your end result goals for this system and we'll walk you through some very usable options. (Amps, speakers and sub choices)
Swez
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 17:13:47
Dude swez where you get all this from..lol your like either have a enciclopedia when you type or something lol. Yea RMS are what you might call the real continuining power of the amp unlike wattz when they show you on the top of the box. Those are just there to give you a range of what it could reach but never go with does numbers most amps never get close to it or like MTX or Rockford they try to always go more, then of course you end up paying about 1 or 2.50 per wattz or in this case rms.
swez on 04/6/2007 09:08:32
HPR,
Took some electrical engineering classes for a few years and got bored to death with all the math and such. However, after being in electronics and audio for over 20 years, one tends to pick up a lot of information and if we use it regularly, it sticks. When stuck, I pull out my old text books, refresh my memory and then explain the matter in details that the reader can hopefully use.
Just wait until you hit about 50 years of age. If one remains life-long students and have a passion to learn and teach, you too will be doing the same things. That's why I have been here for over 8 years on this forum. I enjoy learning, teaching others and share ideas that are helpful top others.
I can see you have a range of experience in car audio already. That's great! If you hang around here a while and read the posts, FAQ's and DIY articles, a lot of good information will be added to your personal background. There are some very talented peeps on this board and many have specialty talents of one sort or another. (Especially the Golds) That's why they are Golds.
We give that award to people that are consistantly helping others and know what they are talking about in great depth. If you want to become a future Gold Member, hang around, learn all you can and be willing to help others in the tried and true methods you see on this site. It takes a while, but my quess is you have the right stuff and potential to become a future Gold too. It just takes time to earn that status and other Golds will sponsor you in when the time is right.
Swez
PS Thanks for the Props! SMILE
incognito on 04/10/2007 03:45:04
Hi Guys
Thanks alot for the help and explanation of Rms etc. I will most definitely use the info posted. What i intend to do next is get the amp that will power these 12" babies.
Keep well gents.
MrBrownstone on 04/10/2007 13:02:16
and concerning speakers, the mfr usually refers to the amount of power the speaker can handle continuously...which isn't RMS either.
In a nutshell, if a speaker is rated 100W/200W RMS/Peak, that means it'll be able to effectively dissipate 100W of heat indefinitely. Think of the heat as a 100W bulb...would you put your hand on it?
swez on 04/11/2007 13:11:41
Only if I have gloves on and needed to warm my hands. We use that trick a lot on cold days when installing outdoor Sat/Net dishes in poor weather. It works! CLAP
The other trick when no light bulb is handy, stick your hands under the arm pits until they thaw out. That's a woodsman/fisherman's trick and it does work once one gets past the shock of very cold hands in a very sensitive spot. Burrrrr... ;-)
Swez
cplkittle on 04/12/2007 03:03:59
Since you are on the topic of cold hands...
Armpits do work, but according to my cold weather military training, a well insulated belly will do the trick faster, and with less shock.
jamesp on 04/12/2007 09:07:20
Yea baby, thats not a beer gut you are frowning at, its just my well insulated belly!
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/12/2007 09:50:35
HAHAHAAAA Good laugh james!!!
swez on 04/12/2007 09:52:36
I can do that... it's better then sticking cold hands down into our shorts too... "In cold water, all men are created equal".
Jimmy, that's not a Bud Baby, it's gravity pulling down your chest mass. (or at least that's how I rationize the expanding waistline after 50)
Swez
incognito on 04/13/2007 04:42:07
Dudes,,,, Its not a belly,,,, it's a fuel tank for the sex machine.
Victor on 04/13/2007 05:24:57
huh...!! where is this post leading to... THINK
incognito on 04/13/2007 05:37:55
Dunno
Maybe its the weekend buzz here in SA thats got to me.
swez on 04/13/2007 05:43:39
Will have to keep that line in mind there Nito... LOL
But don't go any further with this O.T. tag line. We are a PG site and the boss is a watchin.
Swez
incognito on 04/13/2007 05:49:49
Sweet man !
My apologies, I had no idea.
While im here,,,,,
What would you say is the best brand of Car Sound and where can i find schematics on single and double enclosures?
Also, I always have difficulty finding any info regarding the right sixe enclosure for any sub. Any info will help me in expanding my knowledge on car audio.
Lets hear it gentleman....
Victor on 04/13/2007 06:03:43
Depends on what kinda sub you are looking at, enclosures and designs are very driver specific and need a lot of detailed specifications to design one on your own..
there ofcourse are different designs and dimensions that are supplied with every woofer, and those are woofer specific for optimum performance as calculated by the software of the manufacturer.
these dimensions are not necessarily the best to go with everytime..
it is also very application specific.. selection of a type of enclosure depends a lot on the kind of music you listen to, the acoustics of the car.. etc...
we need a detailed question from you to help you better..
Victor..
incognito on 04/13/2007 06:09:25
Pioneer dvc 1000watt
Victor on 04/13/2007 06:11:01
model number please......???
incognito on 04/13/2007 06:19:10
Dude, i dont know. Its already in my ride. Its over a year old. I will have to check.
Sorry man.
swez on 04/13/2007 06:49:52
Yes, Victor is guiding you with much experience and he has a good deal of enclosure experience with a wide variety of subs.
However, not all subs are created equal. Each major brand has their own optimal guidelines for sealed and ported subs. One size does not fit all. Without a specific make and model number, we are shooting in the dark at an undefined target. Sometimes even with make and model #'s the box details are not always available from some makers. Here, we have to go on instinct and experience.
If you supply the make and model number of your subs, we'll do our best to guide you.
Swez
incognito on 04/13/2007 07:11:24
Im gonna have to do some digging for that model number.
Will post it when i find it.
kirchatndftbl on 04/13/2007 09:54:56
take the sub out of the box the model should be on the back of the sub
The funny thins is that when I bought these subs, the shop assistant didnt have any answers to my questions, which brings me to this forum.
Any help is appreciated....
Replies (23)
cplkittle on 04/3/2007 10:03:36
RMS stands for Root Mean Squared. It is a mathematical term for a method of calculating power handling. According to the methods used to determine RMS, RMS is equal to 70.7% of the maximum power the amplifier puts out.
In car audio today, most of the time you see RMS as half of peak power. (500w RMS, 1000w peak). This is just a generalization companies use to make it easier to match up subs with amps, and at the same time boost their output claims. An amplifier with a rating of 700watts RMS should have a peak output of 1000watts (mathmatically) but instead, they bump that number on up to 1400watts.
swez on 04/3/2007 10:05:36
RMS is often considered Continous Power Handling or output of an amplifier. In practice, we look at the RMS value ratings over Peak ratings.
RMS, (Root-Mean Squared) is a mathmatical equvilent to DC power. We don't need that much detail to understand a good fit between amps and speakers, but it's out there if you want to dig deeper. The short form... look at RMS values when selecting various gear.
In the case mentioned above, a sub amp with a rated power of 1200 Watts RMS, would be a good fit for these subs. However, the power draw from the car electricals for this output level will be substantial and over the limits of a stock electrical system. It would be wise and cost effective to use only one ported sub and a well matched Class D amp.
Not surpirsed the salesman that sold you the subs was clueless on such things. Most are in the same boat and don't have a deep enough background in 12 volt Audio to lead buyers to optimal choices. Can you return 1 sub for credit and buy other things from them that will work in your present car?
Splits are nice in the front doors or even kick panels for front stage use. They should be amped as well, to get the most from them. Do you know the stock speaker size used up front?
Tell us more about your end result goals for this system and we'll walk you through some very usable options. (Amps, speakers and sub choices)
Swez
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 17:13:47
Dude swez where you get all this from..lol your like either have a enciclopedia when you type or something lol. Yea RMS are what you might call the real continuining power of the amp unlike wattz when they show you on the top of the box. Those are just there to give you a range of what it could reach but never go with does numbers most amps never get close to it or like MTX or Rockford they try to always go more, then of course you end up paying about 1 or 2.50 per wattz or in this case rms.
swez on 04/6/2007 09:08:32
HPR,
Took some electrical engineering classes for a few years and got bored to death with all the math and such. However, after being in electronics and audio for over 20 years, one tends to pick up a lot of information and if we use it regularly, it sticks. When stuck, I pull out my old text books, refresh my memory and then explain the matter in details that the reader can hopefully use.
Just wait until you hit about 50 years of age. If one remains life-long students and have a passion to learn and teach, you too will be doing the same things. That's why I have been here for over 8 years on this forum. I enjoy learning, teaching others and share ideas that are helpful top others.
I can see you have a range of experience in car audio already. That's great! If you hang around here a while and read the posts, FAQ's and DIY articles, a lot of good information will be added to your personal background. There are some very talented peeps on this board and many have specialty talents of one sort or another. (Especially the Golds) That's why they are Golds.
We give that award to people that are consistantly helping others and know what they are talking about in great depth. If you want to become a future Gold Member, hang around, learn all you can and be willing to help others in the tried and true methods you see on this site. It takes a while, but my quess is you have the right stuff and potential to become a future Gold too. It just takes time to earn that status and other Golds will sponsor you in when the time is right.
Swez
PS Thanks for the Props! SMILE
incognito on 04/10/2007 03:45:04
Hi Guys
Thanks alot for the help and explanation of Rms etc. I will most definitely use the info posted. What i intend to do next is get the amp that will power these 12" babies.
Keep well gents.
MrBrownstone on 04/10/2007 13:02:16
and concerning speakers, the mfr usually refers to the amount of power the speaker can handle continuously...which isn't RMS either.
In a nutshell, if a speaker is rated 100W/200W RMS/Peak, that means it'll be able to effectively dissipate 100W of heat indefinitely. Think of the heat as a 100W bulb...would you put your hand on it?
swez on 04/11/2007 13:11:41
Only if I have gloves on and needed to warm my hands. We use that trick a lot on cold days when installing outdoor Sat/Net dishes in poor weather. It works! CLAP
The other trick when no light bulb is handy, stick your hands under the arm pits until they thaw out. That's a woodsman/fisherman's trick and it does work once one gets past the shock of very cold hands in a very sensitive spot. Burrrrr... ;-)
Swez
cplkittle on 04/12/2007 03:03:59
Since you are on the topic of cold hands...
Armpits do work, but according to my cold weather military training, a well insulated belly will do the trick faster, and with less shock.
jamesp on 04/12/2007 09:07:20
Yea baby, thats not a beer gut you are frowning at, its just my well insulated belly!
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/12/2007 09:50:35
HAHAHAAAA Good laugh james!!!
swez on 04/12/2007 09:52:36
I can do that... it's better then sticking cold hands down into our shorts too... "In cold water, all men are created equal".
Jimmy, that's not a Bud Baby, it's gravity pulling down your chest mass. (or at least that's how I rationize the expanding waistline after 50)
Swez
incognito on 04/13/2007 04:42:07
Dudes,,,, Its not a belly,,,, it's a fuel tank for the sex machine.
Victor on 04/13/2007 05:24:57
huh...!! where is this post leading to... THINK
incognito on 04/13/2007 05:37:55
Dunno
Maybe its the weekend buzz here in SA thats got to me.
swez on 04/13/2007 05:43:39
Will have to keep that line in mind there Nito... LOL
But don't go any further with this O.T. tag line. We are a PG site and the boss is a watchin.
Swez
incognito on 04/13/2007 05:49:49
Sweet man !
My apologies, I had no idea.
While im here,,,,,
What would you say is the best brand of Car Sound and where can i find schematics on single and double enclosures?
Also, I always have difficulty finding any info regarding the right sixe enclosure for any sub. Any info will help me in expanding my knowledge on car audio.
Lets hear it gentleman....
Victor on 04/13/2007 06:03:43
Depends on what kinda sub you are looking at, enclosures and designs are very driver specific and need a lot of detailed specifications to design one on your own..
there ofcourse are different designs and dimensions that are supplied with every woofer, and those are woofer specific for optimum performance as calculated by the software of the manufacturer.
these dimensions are not necessarily the best to go with everytime..
it is also very application specific.. selection of a type of enclosure depends a lot on the kind of music you listen to, the acoustics of the car.. etc...
we need a detailed question from you to help you better..
Victor..
incognito on 04/13/2007 06:09:25
Pioneer dvc 1000watt
Victor on 04/13/2007 06:11:01
model number please......???
incognito on 04/13/2007 06:19:10
Dude, i dont know. Its already in my ride. Its over a year old. I will have to check.
Sorry man.
swez on 04/13/2007 06:49:52
Yes, Victor is guiding you with much experience and he has a good deal of enclosure experience with a wide variety of subs.
However, not all subs are created equal. Each major brand has their own optimal guidelines for sealed and ported subs. One size does not fit all. Without a specific make and model number, we are shooting in the dark at an undefined target. Sometimes even with make and model #'s the box details are not always available from some makers. Here, we have to go on instinct and experience.
If you supply the make and model number of your subs, we'll do our best to guide you.
Swez
incognito on 04/13/2007 07:11:24
Im gonna have to do some digging for that model number.
Will post it when i find it.
kirchatndftbl on 04/13/2007 09:54:56
take the sub out of the box the model should be on the back of the sub
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