I have been playing around with the crossover settings on my head unit which have selectable slope.
So far I prefer to set the HU to all pass and currently have my sub amp (RF 6001bd) low passed at slightly below 80 Hz (Alpine Type R 12")
My front and rear stage amp (RF 450.4) high passed at 110Hz front( Infinity 6x8 Kappa comps) and the rear stage (RF 6x8 dual tweet comps) crossed over at about 120Hz high pass.
What settings would you guys recommend. I believe when using both the head unit( 6-24 dB/oct) and amp crossovers (12dB/oct) there is a cumulative effect. Do my settings sound reasonable or am I way off base. It is easy enough to change them but after listening at different settings, I have no tone memory of what a former setting sounded like and am just taking pot shots at it...The frequency pots on the amps are hard to read with much accuracy too. Thanks
Replies (25)
BlackDodgeMan on 03/29/2007 14:07:03
Well I dont know if this helps at all, but from what I have found on newer amps, and most of your higher quality amps, you dont even need to adjust the EQ on the head unit, and you can actually do everything from the amp, because if you think about it, what you are adjusting on the head unit, is the out put from the radio into the amps through the RCA's so then the amps take that input and change it however they feel is needed depending on how you have them adjusted.
What I normally do when I adjust things, is take and turn all the amps down to the min. and then turn the radio up to where you normally listen to it, where it is clear and not distorted, and then adjust the amps seperately where you want them. Adjust the 4 channel first and get the door speakers where you want them, just be careful because hearing distortion in highs and mids is not as noticiable...compaired to subs... then adjust the bass in to where you want it, normally to compliment the music and not over power it, then later on when you are crusing around, and you hear a song that comes on and you would like more bass, you can then just adjust the head unit a little to give it a little more bass.
Also with your subs, if the box is ported, it makes a big difference to know what frequency it is ported at, because then you can adjust the amp for max responce near that frequency.
BlackDodgeMan on 03/29/2007 14:43:05
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3 Check this out, it might help you out a little with adjusting your system to sound the best for you.... I should have seen this first....
cplkittle on 03/29/2007 23:09:00
Hey BDM, are you new here, or is this another login name?
anyway, good advice.
There is not per say a cumulative effect, James, but more of a second filter to catch what might have slipped through the first time.
I personally have mine set up so that most of the controll is through the radio. My 4 channel amp is set somewhere in the 60Hz HPF range and the sub amp is around 80Hz LPF for the 12's.
I use the radio's crossover to tweak the settings according to the music I am listening to. I will bump the HPF on the mids up to 150Hz if I am playing a bass CD to protect the components and if I am listening to something at a lower volume that I want more quality midbass I will drop it down to around 60Hz.
I have always used a 12dB/oct slope. If you are happy with 120Hz, I would not go any steeper than 12dB. I would actually recommend somewhere around 80Hz @ 12dB/Oct. Let the 6x8s pick up a little more midbass.
jamesp on 03/30/2007 07:58:41
Thanks for the replies.
I have read the tutorial from Swez several times and set it up by ear as recommended. I was mainly wondering if the actual numbers where I set the freq's seemed right.
When I had the Rockford comps up front and the stock head unit I had the HP set at around 80Hz to see if I could dim the tweets a bit.
About the only thing I have not tried yet is to all pass the amps and cross everything over with the HU.
At most settings that I have tried on the crossovers, after I use the HU to reset the boost or cut on the, bass, mid, highs, non-fader for the sub, fader etc.then if necessary use the remote bass boost.it sounds good.
It seems that both the RF and Infinity woofers have very hard hitting mid bass and mid range as long as the track is good quality.I have saved 6 EQ settings and one may sound better than another based on what recording is being played.
swez on 03/31/2007 10:39:37
Most amp LPF/HPF settings are only approximations. The HU you have now, is probably far more accurate and setting the RF 450.4 amp to full range is not a bad strategy if you only want the HU to do the crossover points for you.
If we find the MB is a bit too strong in a given system install, (Rare to hear that complaint) the Parametric EQ is a very useful tool to dial back in that range. (60-300 Hz.) It's a matter of adjusting the PEQ settings for that range, (Attenuate them a tad) and try the slope bandwith on narrow, default and wide band control to determine what sounds best for your truck and personal preferences.
Swez
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 00:40:38
Long answers here, well i hope no one gave out my answr yet lol. I found out after some what years of working with crossovers and amsp is that, you might want to start thinkign of only using the crossover for the amp you use on the speakers or mids and directly plug in the amp for the bass on the radio, by doing so you will be bringing out the entire sound of the bass thru, crossover do one good thing and is cuttign frequency out, I think we all know this so 1- very good idea for speaker because you dont want to blow them fast and also you one them to sound more clearly and light in your ears, but when it comes to subs you dont want to cut yourself from its power so when you put the amp used for subs with the crossover you will never hear its true potential. thats about as far as I have foudn out about crossovers, good with speakers or mids and highs bad with subs, unless what you are lookign for is straight up fidelity then it works good, but personally i dont like fidelity...neither do I like high power, but that is another story.
jamesp on 04/5/2007 08:01:47
Im not sure if I disagree with your logic or simply dont understand what you are saying here.
My sub amp crossover has to be set somewhere between 20Hz and 400Hz. the most common range being somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 -120Hz. If the higher frequencies are not attenuated below the upper end of this range then the sub woofer will have to play frequencies above the parameters it is designed to accuratly replicate. Ill let my woofers handle the 80Hz and up frequencies and keep the sub in the subsonic range.
In other words, if I set the crossover on my sub amp to low pass frequencies below 400Hz, It produces muddy, garbled noise instead of the crisp, tight, punchy bass notes that it is designed to play.
I do like fidelity, which in audio simply means accurate, faithful reproduction of sound. The oppisite of fidelity, in audio is distortion. I dont like distortion. If it takes a bit of power to have fidelity, then Im all about the power up in here. Word.
cplkittle on 04/5/2007 08:59:07
I think maybe he is thinking of an equalizer.
You still need a SSF and LPF.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 09:50:23
Word, James. Word Indeed! If I turn my crossover above 50hz, my system sounds like garbage. Then again, you change the tiniest thing on my rig, it all goes to crap. My gear is so ghetto sometimes I can barely belive It makes sound, let alone sounds good. But, without crossovers, it would definitely sound like what it is, a bunch of cheap crap.........
swez on 04/5/2007 09:54:15
Same here, am not sure what HP is trying to say and don't wish to guess or assume either. Please explain your position in a fresh way and we'll mull it over.
Subs and speakers are designed to operate at a specific range and are crossed over to prevent excess overlap or gaps at the desired crossing points. This requires accurate active filtering either from the amps' crossovers or HU. (Source of signal)
The other reason for these crossovers, is to protect small format speakers from getting too much bass energy that can damage or degrade performance as we power up the SPL. It also allows one to allocate where the bass range will be best suited for best balance, bump and low bass SPL. The typical crossover range for small/medium format speakers, (4", 4x6", 5.25" and 6.5" fomats) is typically between 60-100 Hz. The smaller the cone area, th less bass it can handle w/o breaking up.
We have readers from all ends of the spectrum. Extreme bass heads, SPL only guys and folks who don't care much about high fidelity and balance don't stay in that game very long. They usually grow tired of such things, (mature or have hearing losses) and move to a more balanced and refined SQL approach. This is where the bulk of our readers wind up eventually.
SQL can be loosely defined as pure, accurate, tight mids/highs and solid lows in balance as we would expect in a studio cut or great live sound mixes. This is not easy to attain in mobile audio as the speaker placements and acoustics of a given vehicle all play a roll in accurate sound staging. (Front stage, rear stage and sub balance)
Anyway, not sure I understand exactly what HP is trying to put forth in his earlier post. " i dont like fidelity...neither do I like high power, but that is another story." Ok, you have defined what you don't like. Now, tell us what you do like so we can get an accurate picture of your personal preferences.
Swez
PS Don't be surprized if our gospel teachings do not match yours. That's OK, we are pretty open-minded to a point. However, we have spent years developing a systematic approach to mobile sound practices here at CK. We know what principles work and people like the results they get as well. That's why this site has lasted over 8 years and have so many active readers. All are welcome to join in the fun, debate and ask plenty of well reasoned questions. That's how we do things and it works very well.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 09:59:01
Yeah, I remember the days of caring about nothing but bump. I think it was a combo of maturity and going deaf that made me want to go SQL.
swez on 04/5/2007 10:09:32
See what I mean... very predictable! LOL
Swez
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 10:12:11
Well, if you consider heaping on more of an SQ engine to keep up with the bass going SQL, thats the way I went. I figure, Hell I'm gonna go deaf sometime, might as well enjoy every deafining detail.
swez on 04/5/2007 10:37:10
Well, hearing loss is not a matter to be taken lightly. In small spaces like a car or truck, SPL levels can easily reach well over 120 dB of SPL with modest power amping.
I have a number of older friends with hearing loss issues. It's not fun for them and hearing aids are not always the best solution nor are they cheap. Best to avoid that one if at all possible huh?
Swez
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 10:48:10
I have had hearing problems from day 1, as I was born with an ear infection. I had about 35% of my left ear lost, and about 10% of my right hearing, with the holes being in the upper range. Last time I was checked though, It was in like 10th grade. A good 6 years.
I still suffer from chronic ear infections, and had one for a year straiht when I was about 9. It sounded like a train was chugging in my ear. They aren't as bad now, but they still itch frequently, especially right when I wake up. The best relief I have found so far: DEEEEEEP BAASSS.
I am honestly suprised that I can hear at all, as since the age of 5 I was convinced I would be signing at this age, so I have been so at ease with going deaf for years. I guess fate had a different plan for my eardrums, and I ain't complaining. But still, If I can hear past age 40, I will be truly suprised. I have been hospitilized enough times for my ears in the past, that I won't be suprised if the next nasty infect hits and I lose it all.
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 11:29:33
okay let me think here, if you guys love to play around fidelity; sure the best way to go is putting up a crossover to make the sounds clearer for both speakers amp and sub amp, now like me if you love distortion...crossovers kill some of the amps power because..thats what crossovers do they cut the frequencies up to a range that you can listent to properly, yes normally people have them in the 80z but its never enough if you want distortion.swez I cant even hear a car goign at a 150db anymore an dits not because i am depth or anything, I just cant feel that minor level anymore, normally I go around 17-195db thats why ended up saying if you like fidelity yep best bet go with crossover, if like me you like distortion and real poundage in the car where you can barely breathe I dont recommend installing the subs amp thru the crossover. It does work real nice for the speakers amp.
jamesp on 04/5/2007 12:03:10
Are you saying you ride around listening to 195dB? Not only could you barely breath at that pressure level, your brain would be running out of your nose and ears. The current world record is 178.9 dB and the thing has 4 tons (3636.36kg) of equipment in it and it does have bullet proof glass and the doors have to be bolted shut or it blows them open. 1998 and 1999 too. Sorry but April 1 was a few days ago.
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 17:09:55
I know, I love having a car where you can barelly breathe, feels good and it sure makes everyone else jealous lol. I think you are asking about me and 1998-99 thats when I had last few years with my store, sort of got me lost there.
swez on 04/5/2007 17:51:51
James... you a naughty boy GRIN I think someone has now cracked the 180dB mark too. That is a huge bass SPL number.
HPR, It seems there are a few cultural differences between the USA and where you came from. That's fine and we can figure them out in time.
Distortion is a good tool for a Rock guitar player. They can create all kinds of of interesting sounds at the click of a foot pedal these days. However, in high fidelity audio, we look for pure tones and can easily pick up the differences between a flute, oboe, trumpet or an acoustic guitar. Those sounds are much more complex then a typical band that uses a few guitars, synth, drum kit, bass and vocals.
Now, for first rate audio performance, (Be it car audio, Home theater or live music) we strive for a pure and clean audio source. We hope to make it sound like the music was cut in the studio and at the mixing board. This is the main goal of an audiophile and those who demand quality audio reproduction. (A piano is one of the most difficult instruments to reproduce well, due to the wide range of harmonics)
The use of crossovers in modern systems is the norm. We use them to filter out frequencies that are not intended for a given speaker.
Examples:
We filter out bass to small midrange speakers as they cannot handle bass well and can also destroy the speaker at high SPL levels if left unfiltered.
We filter tweeters to remove midrange content for the same reason. Tweeters cannot handle midrange frequencies well and w/o filters, they too will be destroyed.
We filter out mids and highs for the woofers to allow them to reproduce pure bass tones and roll off the annoying honkiness of midbass.
Also, live concert level SPL is often limited to about 120dB at the stage. This is very loud to the human ear and if we are exposed to long periods of SPL at or above that level, hearing protection is a smart thing to use. If working in a very large room or stadium venue, sound techs employ near-field monitors to ensure adequate SPL and fidelity in the deep field reaches of a large stadium and such.
Have you ever seen jet aircraft techs and such wearing head band type ear muffs. They filter out excess noise from the jet engines and protect their hearing. Jet engines produce very high SPL numbers, (190dB +?) at takeoff and those who work around them need hearing protection to keep them from going deaf.
Are you getting any of this yet HPR? Basically, this is sorta like boot camp for those who really desire to learn car audio and how things really work. Many come here from other forums with a lot of misinformation and rumors. We do our best to reprogram the bad data with stuff that works and is really useful.
Care to join our boot camp?
Swez
jamesp on 04/5/2007 18:14:04
Swez is it like converting Celsius to Farienheit
C(9/5) +32 = F
so 100C(9/5) +32 = 212F..........just substitute RMS for C......
thier dB(9/5) + 32 = our dB ???
Sorry, I couldnt help myself...but all in fun. The 178.9 guy had 72 amplifiers and something like a sweet, smooth 130,000 watts and no room for a passenger in the van anywhere.
jamesp on 04/5/2007 18:34:23
This Wikipedia link is pretty cool
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_drag_racing
A Blue Whale humming at 1 meter 200dB...That will knock a man out possibly cause a quick death.
So far in the 2007 World Comps, Edge Audio has hit 179.8 with a truck full of goodies.
HPR, look on the left side of this page up near the top and click on the lowest link "General Car Audio Help" open that page and click on the " Basic Car Audio....." there you will find a wonderful tutorial for a good brush up on all things related to car audio...It is a worthwhile refresher course for audio electronics that can benefit most of us.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 23:45:06
Wow, I had no Idea a whale could hit so high of DB's. For my nest system, I am goind to put a blue whale tank on the back of a hevily modified 18wheeler, and cram a pair of interlinks where they don't go, and see how well that works.
jamesp on 04/6/2007 07:41:19
Shoota, its only right for the largest animal that has ever lived on this planet to have a kickin hum.
You know, when I was playing around with some Bass Mechanix recording in my truck some of those sweeping tones made my ears itch like crazy. I can see how if they itched already that you could get a soothing felling from the right frequency. The level that made my ears itch was a bit louder than Im comfortable listening to.
I always wear ear plugs riding my motorcycle. I dont wear them to protect my ears from the exhaust note, I do it to keep the wind noise out. Many old bike riders(my age) now have Tinnitus and that is a condition that will drive you nuts. Walking around the rest of your life with the sound of a tin drum in your ears.
swez on 04/6/2007 08:50:31
That can't be much fun and I learned something new about bikers too. No wonder the hard core riders are hard of hearing... LOL They also talk very loud too. D'oh
Swez
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/6/2007 09:37:18
Yeah, I'd sy they whale deserves a good DB rating being that big of an animal.
I always thought when I was younger that I would never want a system because of my ear situation, but it is actually very soothing for my ears. After a 2 hour drive in the bucket, I always feel great.
So far I prefer to set the HU to all pass and currently have my sub amp (RF 6001bd) low passed at slightly below 80 Hz (Alpine Type R 12")
My front and rear stage amp (RF 450.4) high passed at 110Hz front( Infinity 6x8 Kappa comps) and the rear stage (RF 6x8 dual tweet comps) crossed over at about 120Hz high pass.
What settings would you guys recommend. I believe when using both the head unit( 6-24 dB/oct) and amp crossovers (12dB/oct) there is a cumulative effect. Do my settings sound reasonable or am I way off base. It is easy enough to change them but after listening at different settings, I have no tone memory of what a former setting sounded like and am just taking pot shots at it...The frequency pots on the amps are hard to read with much accuracy too. Thanks
Replies (25)
BlackDodgeMan on 03/29/2007 14:07:03
Well I dont know if this helps at all, but from what I have found on newer amps, and most of your higher quality amps, you dont even need to adjust the EQ on the head unit, and you can actually do everything from the amp, because if you think about it, what you are adjusting on the head unit, is the out put from the radio into the amps through the RCA's so then the amps take that input and change it however they feel is needed depending on how you have them adjusted.
What I normally do when I adjust things, is take and turn all the amps down to the min. and then turn the radio up to where you normally listen to it, where it is clear and not distorted, and then adjust the amps seperately where you want them. Adjust the 4 channel first and get the door speakers where you want them, just be careful because hearing distortion in highs and mids is not as noticiable...compaired to subs... then adjust the bass in to where you want it, normally to compliment the music and not over power it, then later on when you are crusing around, and you hear a song that comes on and you would like more bass, you can then just adjust the head unit a little to give it a little more bass.
Also with your subs, if the box is ported, it makes a big difference to know what frequency it is ported at, because then you can adjust the amp for max responce near that frequency.
BlackDodgeMan on 03/29/2007 14:43:05
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t3 Check this out, it might help you out a little with adjusting your system to sound the best for you.... I should have seen this first....
cplkittle on 03/29/2007 23:09:00
Hey BDM, are you new here, or is this another login name?
anyway, good advice.
There is not per say a cumulative effect, James, but more of a second filter to catch what might have slipped through the first time.
I personally have mine set up so that most of the controll is through the radio. My 4 channel amp is set somewhere in the 60Hz HPF range and the sub amp is around 80Hz LPF for the 12's.
I use the radio's crossover to tweak the settings according to the music I am listening to. I will bump the HPF on the mids up to 150Hz if I am playing a bass CD to protect the components and if I am listening to something at a lower volume that I want more quality midbass I will drop it down to around 60Hz.
I have always used a 12dB/oct slope. If you are happy with 120Hz, I would not go any steeper than 12dB. I would actually recommend somewhere around 80Hz @ 12dB/Oct. Let the 6x8s pick up a little more midbass.
jamesp on 03/30/2007 07:58:41
Thanks for the replies.
I have read the tutorial from Swez several times and set it up by ear as recommended. I was mainly wondering if the actual numbers where I set the freq's seemed right.
When I had the Rockford comps up front and the stock head unit I had the HP set at around 80Hz to see if I could dim the tweets a bit.
About the only thing I have not tried yet is to all pass the amps and cross everything over with the HU.
At most settings that I have tried on the crossovers, after I use the HU to reset the boost or cut on the, bass, mid, highs, non-fader for the sub, fader etc.then if necessary use the remote bass boost.it sounds good.
It seems that both the RF and Infinity woofers have very hard hitting mid bass and mid range as long as the track is good quality.I have saved 6 EQ settings and one may sound better than another based on what recording is being played.
swez on 03/31/2007 10:39:37
Most amp LPF/HPF settings are only approximations. The HU you have now, is probably far more accurate and setting the RF 450.4 amp to full range is not a bad strategy if you only want the HU to do the crossover points for you.
If we find the MB is a bit too strong in a given system install, (Rare to hear that complaint) the Parametric EQ is a very useful tool to dial back in that range. (60-300 Hz.) It's a matter of adjusting the PEQ settings for that range, (Attenuate them a tad) and try the slope bandwith on narrow, default and wide band control to determine what sounds best for your truck and personal preferences.
Swez
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 00:40:38
Long answers here, well i hope no one gave out my answr yet lol. I found out after some what years of working with crossovers and amsp is that, you might want to start thinkign of only using the crossover for the amp you use on the speakers or mids and directly plug in the amp for the bass on the radio, by doing so you will be bringing out the entire sound of the bass thru, crossover do one good thing and is cuttign frequency out, I think we all know this so 1- very good idea for speaker because you dont want to blow them fast and also you one them to sound more clearly and light in your ears, but when it comes to subs you dont want to cut yourself from its power so when you put the amp used for subs with the crossover you will never hear its true potential. thats about as far as I have foudn out about crossovers, good with speakers or mids and highs bad with subs, unless what you are lookign for is straight up fidelity then it works good, but personally i dont like fidelity...neither do I like high power, but that is another story.
jamesp on 04/5/2007 08:01:47
Im not sure if I disagree with your logic or simply dont understand what you are saying here.
My sub amp crossover has to be set somewhere between 20Hz and 400Hz. the most common range being somewhere in the neighborhood of 70 -120Hz. If the higher frequencies are not attenuated below the upper end of this range then the sub woofer will have to play frequencies above the parameters it is designed to accuratly replicate. Ill let my woofers handle the 80Hz and up frequencies and keep the sub in the subsonic range.
In other words, if I set the crossover on my sub amp to low pass frequencies below 400Hz, It produces muddy, garbled noise instead of the crisp, tight, punchy bass notes that it is designed to play.
I do like fidelity, which in audio simply means accurate, faithful reproduction of sound. The oppisite of fidelity, in audio is distortion. I dont like distortion. If it takes a bit of power to have fidelity, then Im all about the power up in here. Word.
cplkittle on 04/5/2007 08:59:07
I think maybe he is thinking of an equalizer.
You still need a SSF and LPF.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 09:50:23
Word, James. Word Indeed! If I turn my crossover above 50hz, my system sounds like garbage. Then again, you change the tiniest thing on my rig, it all goes to crap. My gear is so ghetto sometimes I can barely belive It makes sound, let alone sounds good. But, without crossovers, it would definitely sound like what it is, a bunch of cheap crap.........
swez on 04/5/2007 09:54:15
Same here, am not sure what HP is trying to say and don't wish to guess or assume either. Please explain your position in a fresh way and we'll mull it over.
Subs and speakers are designed to operate at a specific range and are crossed over to prevent excess overlap or gaps at the desired crossing points. This requires accurate active filtering either from the amps' crossovers or HU. (Source of signal)
The other reason for these crossovers, is to protect small format speakers from getting too much bass energy that can damage or degrade performance as we power up the SPL. It also allows one to allocate where the bass range will be best suited for best balance, bump and low bass SPL. The typical crossover range for small/medium format speakers, (4", 4x6", 5.25" and 6.5" fomats) is typically between 60-100 Hz. The smaller the cone area, th less bass it can handle w/o breaking up.
We have readers from all ends of the spectrum. Extreme bass heads, SPL only guys and folks who don't care much about high fidelity and balance don't stay in that game very long. They usually grow tired of such things, (mature or have hearing losses) and move to a more balanced and refined SQL approach. This is where the bulk of our readers wind up eventually.
SQL can be loosely defined as pure, accurate, tight mids/highs and solid lows in balance as we would expect in a studio cut or great live sound mixes. This is not easy to attain in mobile audio as the speaker placements and acoustics of a given vehicle all play a roll in accurate sound staging. (Front stage, rear stage and sub balance)
Anyway, not sure I understand exactly what HP is trying to put forth in his earlier post. " i dont like fidelity...neither do I like high power, but that is another story." Ok, you have defined what you don't like. Now, tell us what you do like so we can get an accurate picture of your personal preferences.
Swez
PS Don't be surprized if our gospel teachings do not match yours. That's OK, we are pretty open-minded to a point. However, we have spent years developing a systematic approach to mobile sound practices here at CK. We know what principles work and people like the results they get as well. That's why this site has lasted over 8 years and have so many active readers. All are welcome to join in the fun, debate and ask plenty of well reasoned questions. That's how we do things and it works very well.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 09:59:01
Yeah, I remember the days of caring about nothing but bump. I think it was a combo of maturity and going deaf that made me want to go SQL.
swez on 04/5/2007 10:09:32
See what I mean... very predictable! LOL
Swez
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 10:12:11
Well, if you consider heaping on more of an SQ engine to keep up with the bass going SQL, thats the way I went. I figure, Hell I'm gonna go deaf sometime, might as well enjoy every deafining detail.
swez on 04/5/2007 10:37:10
Well, hearing loss is not a matter to be taken lightly. In small spaces like a car or truck, SPL levels can easily reach well over 120 dB of SPL with modest power amping.
I have a number of older friends with hearing loss issues. It's not fun for them and hearing aids are not always the best solution nor are they cheap. Best to avoid that one if at all possible huh?
Swez
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 10:48:10
I have had hearing problems from day 1, as I was born with an ear infection. I had about 35% of my left ear lost, and about 10% of my right hearing, with the holes being in the upper range. Last time I was checked though, It was in like 10th grade. A good 6 years.
I still suffer from chronic ear infections, and had one for a year straiht when I was about 9. It sounded like a train was chugging in my ear. They aren't as bad now, but they still itch frequently, especially right when I wake up. The best relief I have found so far: DEEEEEEP BAASSS.
I am honestly suprised that I can hear at all, as since the age of 5 I was convinced I would be signing at this age, so I have been so at ease with going deaf for years. I guess fate had a different plan for my eardrums, and I ain't complaining. But still, If I can hear past age 40, I will be truly suprised. I have been hospitilized enough times for my ears in the past, that I won't be suprised if the next nasty infect hits and I lose it all.
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 11:29:33
okay let me think here, if you guys love to play around fidelity; sure the best way to go is putting up a crossover to make the sounds clearer for both speakers amp and sub amp, now like me if you love distortion...crossovers kill some of the amps power because..thats what crossovers do they cut the frequencies up to a range that you can listent to properly, yes normally people have them in the 80z but its never enough if you want distortion.swez I cant even hear a car goign at a 150db anymore an dits not because i am depth or anything, I just cant feel that minor level anymore, normally I go around 17-195db thats why ended up saying if you like fidelity yep best bet go with crossover, if like me you like distortion and real poundage in the car where you can barely breathe I dont recommend installing the subs amp thru the crossover. It does work real nice for the speakers amp.
jamesp on 04/5/2007 12:03:10
Are you saying you ride around listening to 195dB? Not only could you barely breath at that pressure level, your brain would be running out of your nose and ears. The current world record is 178.9 dB and the thing has 4 tons (3636.36kg) of equipment in it and it does have bullet proof glass and the doors have to be bolted shut or it blows them open. 1998 and 1999 too. Sorry but April 1 was a few days ago.
HPRacing on 04/5/2007 17:09:55
I know, I love having a car where you can barelly breathe, feels good and it sure makes everyone else jealous lol. I think you are asking about me and 1998-99 thats when I had last few years with my store, sort of got me lost there.
swez on 04/5/2007 17:51:51
James... you a naughty boy GRIN I think someone has now cracked the 180dB mark too. That is a huge bass SPL number.
HPR, It seems there are a few cultural differences between the USA and where you came from. That's fine and we can figure them out in time.
Distortion is a good tool for a Rock guitar player. They can create all kinds of of interesting sounds at the click of a foot pedal these days. However, in high fidelity audio, we look for pure tones and can easily pick up the differences between a flute, oboe, trumpet or an acoustic guitar. Those sounds are much more complex then a typical band that uses a few guitars, synth, drum kit, bass and vocals.
Now, for first rate audio performance, (Be it car audio, Home theater or live music) we strive for a pure and clean audio source. We hope to make it sound like the music was cut in the studio and at the mixing board. This is the main goal of an audiophile and those who demand quality audio reproduction. (A piano is one of the most difficult instruments to reproduce well, due to the wide range of harmonics)
The use of crossovers in modern systems is the norm. We use them to filter out frequencies that are not intended for a given speaker.
Examples:
We filter out bass to small midrange speakers as they cannot handle bass well and can also destroy the speaker at high SPL levels if left unfiltered.
We filter tweeters to remove midrange content for the same reason. Tweeters cannot handle midrange frequencies well and w/o filters, they too will be destroyed.
We filter out mids and highs for the woofers to allow them to reproduce pure bass tones and roll off the annoying honkiness of midbass.
Also, live concert level SPL is often limited to about 120dB at the stage. This is very loud to the human ear and if we are exposed to long periods of SPL at or above that level, hearing protection is a smart thing to use. If working in a very large room or stadium venue, sound techs employ near-field monitors to ensure adequate SPL and fidelity in the deep field reaches of a large stadium and such.
Have you ever seen jet aircraft techs and such wearing head band type ear muffs. They filter out excess noise from the jet engines and protect their hearing. Jet engines produce very high SPL numbers, (190dB +?) at takeoff and those who work around them need hearing protection to keep them from going deaf.
Are you getting any of this yet HPR? Basically, this is sorta like boot camp for those who really desire to learn car audio and how things really work. Many come here from other forums with a lot of misinformation and rumors. We do our best to reprogram the bad data with stuff that works and is really useful.
Care to join our boot camp?
Swez
jamesp on 04/5/2007 18:14:04
Swez is it like converting Celsius to Farienheit
C(9/5) +32 = F
so 100C(9/5) +32 = 212F..........just substitute RMS for C......
thier dB(9/5) + 32 = our dB ???
Sorry, I couldnt help myself...but all in fun. The 178.9 guy had 72 amplifiers and something like a sweet, smooth 130,000 watts and no room for a passenger in the van anywhere.
jamesp on 04/5/2007 18:34:23
This Wikipedia link is pretty cool
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DB_drag_racing
A Blue Whale humming at 1 meter 200dB...That will knock a man out possibly cause a quick death.
So far in the 2007 World Comps, Edge Audio has hit 179.8 with a truck full of goodies.
HPR, look on the left side of this page up near the top and click on the lowest link "General Car Audio Help" open that page and click on the " Basic Car Audio....." there you will find a wonderful tutorial for a good brush up on all things related to car audio...It is a worthwhile refresher course for audio electronics that can benefit most of us.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/5/2007 23:45:06
Wow, I had no Idea a whale could hit so high of DB's. For my nest system, I am goind to put a blue whale tank on the back of a hevily modified 18wheeler, and cram a pair of interlinks where they don't go, and see how well that works.
jamesp on 04/6/2007 07:41:19
Shoota, its only right for the largest animal that has ever lived on this planet to have a kickin hum.
You know, when I was playing around with some Bass Mechanix recording in my truck some of those sweeping tones made my ears itch like crazy. I can see how if they itched already that you could get a soothing felling from the right frequency. The level that made my ears itch was a bit louder than Im comfortable listening to.
I always wear ear plugs riding my motorcycle. I dont wear them to protect my ears from the exhaust note, I do it to keep the wind noise out. Many old bike riders(my age) now have Tinnitus and that is a condition that will drive you nuts. Walking around the rest of your life with the sound of a tin drum in your ears.
swez on 04/6/2007 08:50:31
That can't be much fun and I learned something new about bikers too. No wonder the hard core riders are hard of hearing... LOL They also talk very loud too. D'oh
Swez
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 04/6/2007 09:37:18
Yeah, I'd sy they whale deserves a good DB rating being that big of an animal.
I always thought when I was younger that I would never want a system because of my ear situation, but it is actually very soothing for my ears. After a 2 hour drive in the bucket, I always feel great.
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