I'm new to the car audio world cause i just got a car thats finally worth doing something to. I drive a 2004 VW Passat and want to install a system myself. I have two 12" Infinity REF1252W Subwoofers and want to know what amp i should use with them. Also what other mods should i consider.
Replies (25)
Hoova63 on 03/20/2007 17:40:47
Personally I think infinity amps sound really good with there subs if you want to spend that. I'm gonna check something out and shoot you a good model number. I guess it also depends on what your shooting for as far as your sound and your musical preference. I'm not a pro so you should probably wait on these other guys responses first. Cause they really know what there talking about they have helped me quite a few times
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/21/2007 00:51:33
I think in terms of cost/power effiencey, an 1 ohm stable amp would treat you beat here, or a large 2 channel amp. I personally reccomend the Diamond D3800.1.
Spec built enclosures would be the best way to go here. What kind of music do you listen to? This will give us a good idea of whether to go ported or sealed on this.
Nice choice on the Reference 12's man. Definitely one of my favorite subs.
VDUBluvr on 03/21/2007 14:29:55
Thanks guys i mainly listen to rap music but i like to switch it up every once in a while and listen to some rock (emo, punk) and i also watch them movies with the lady. Also i see on here that some people are told to upgrade their alternators do i need to do that?
newB on 03/21/2007 18:43:46
shouldnt, but really depends on your entire system.
+ other electronics in the car
-Drew
cplkittle on 03/21/2007 18:56:05
You should not need to upgrade your alternator, however, capacitors, batteries, and alternators are all upgrades done after everything is installed, and an assesment is done on how much strain the audio system is putting on the current alt and battery.
Judging by your taste in music, I would suggest you buy / build a ported box tuned in the 32-36Hz range. You have a really roomy trunk, but a large box is not always necessary. Here are the characteristics of box designs
Sealed box = tight, punchy, hard hitting bass. not as loud as ported, and will not reproduce the lows like a ported box will.
Ported box = up to 2x volume, picks up lower notes. Not as accurate as sealed box, and not as tight.
These are not HUGE differences. It is hard to tell sometimes, even for the seasoned installers, what is in a trunk.
Amplifier.. A monoblock (Single channel) somewhere in the 600-800 watt RMS range that is 2 ohm stable should do the trick. The diamond D3 that McB suggested is a nice choice.
VDUBluvr on 03/22/2007 00:12:11
Awesome you guys are great help next question:
When building a box for my subs, as cplkittie stated i build/buy one in the 32-36Hz range, how do i build it to those specs?
I'm new to this like i said and want to learn everything. I'll be asking alot of questions.
newB on 03/22/2007 04:47:15
use the reaudio.com box calculator, OR WinISD.
i like both.
or just get specs from a shop
or do as much as you can then post on a forum such as this and hae them double check your math and BUILD
-Drew
jamesp on 03/22/2007 07:56:02
VDUBluvr, if you are serious about learning everything about 12V electronics there is a superb tutorial available right here....
Look above the Google search bar on the left side of this page , up a bit from here. under links, select "General Car Audio Help" open that page then look down at the 5th title "Basic Car Audio Electronics" open that and work your way thru the sections.
It is a great way to brush up on 12V electronics and covers a lot of aspects of this hobby from crossover function to loudspeaker design principles.. Ohms Law demonstrates why you can power 1500 watts of home amplification with a 14 ga. wire while you may need a 2 ga. or 1/0 ga. wire to do the same with a 12 volt system...Good stuff..
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/22/2007 10:05:21
Man this is why I love Infinity.....They always have specs for their sub's boxes online. But right of now, their website is down, so I can't bust them out. I am 95% sure that that they call for 1.75 ft3 ported boxes, and I believe it is a 4 inch round port with about 8" of length. I will scope it out once their site comes back up. I'm not sure what the PTF will be, but I would stake my life that these things will DUMP if installed properly.
VDUBluvr on 03/23/2007 13:21:18
Ok so if i get that Diamond D3 amp do i only need one of them or two?
cplkittle on 03/23/2007 20:12:25
You will only need one D3 800.1 for the two subs.
We can walk you through the box construction if you want to build it yourself.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/24/2007 06:30:18
What he said. You have picked a pretty easy set of subs to work with, except the DVC option does call for a stouter amp in wattage or ohmage when dealing with four 4-ohm coils.
VDUBluvr on 03/24/2007 19:03:22
Oh awesome that makes my wallet happier!
Alright now we got to the part i've been wondering about:
How do i construct the box for these subs?
cplkittle on 03/24/2007 20:53:25
You will need one sheet of 3/4" MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) available at lowes or home depot. This is the easiest wood to work with and it is the perfect material acoustically. If you store it for any period of time, make sure it is either flat or well supported. The wood will warp if you lean it up against anything, especially if there is any moisture in the air. Don't worry though, it is very strong in small pieces.
You will need a good wood glue and some 1 1/2" staples or nails. You can use screws if you want, but the wood splits easily, and you will need to predrill the holes to prevent splitting. The nails, screws or staples are not important as far as holding it together, they are only needed to hold the wood together until the glue dries.
I prefer titebond 2 or titebond 3. It dries quickly and is waterproof.
Use a decent amount (enough to squeeze out when the two pieces are put together).
We will help you with box size and port size when you give us the available dimensions of the trunk.
VDUBluvr on 03/24/2007 21:14:45
Is there anywhere i can find specific dimensions or do you need me to go out there and measure it with a tape measure?
cplkittle on 03/24/2007 21:49:33
You will have to measure it yourself. Try to imagine how you will have to put it in the car if it is going into a trunk. If it is a hatchback, you don't have to worry about it too much.
I have built boxes before that would physically fit according to the measurements, but getting it into the trunk was impossible.
Most boxes will be somewhere in the 14x14x32 range. a 12" sub needs 14" to mount in properly.
trunkisloud on 03/24/2007 23:27:06
hey shoota...do you own the diamond amp you mention here...seems like you are partial to them.....if so what are you powering with it and how much power is it outputting. ive heard that diamond is good but never had experience with them.
cplkittle on 03/24/2007 23:55:14
I have the older D3600.1 in my wife's car. I believe it has 2x40 amp fuses if I remember correctly, but it is only powering one 15" diamond sub. The gain is just over half. She has no electrical upgrades, and no troubles.
VDUBluvr on 03/25/2007 00:21:01
okay i measured and a 14x14x32 would fit in there. the inside of my trunk is 42" across and 20" from the top to the bottom. where i want the speakers placed it is 18" from the front of the box to the back of the seats.
What is the difference between having one big box for both subs or having individual boxes?
I'm thinking, if possible i want to do the seperate boxes cause i have some crazy ideas for my trunk. i'm going to install a cooler where the spare goes and some lights and such. i'm going to cover off the rest of my trunk with some stretched carpet that blends in with my sub boxes. this is my plan for my trunk.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/25/2007 10:38:42
I don't own a Diamond yet, but this is by far my favorite amp I have ever installed. The D3 WILL be my next purchase for a sub amp, unless my buddy can get me a Focal setup. I used it in a homie's 94 Ford Tempo with a pair of D3 12's, and to date, this is the best way I have ever seen $500 spent (that was deck, amp, subs, enclosure, wiring ect. included in the 500) . It is rated 800RMS @ 1 ohm, makes very clean power, is a very cool running amp when properly used and installed. Like Kit's wife's ride, no charging/electrical mods, no trouble. Reminds me of an AK, cheap, reliable, deadly, looks sick!
The reason that usually bring up the D3 800.1 on the boards is that it is the first amp that comes to mind when 4 ohm DVC subs are brought up. Plus it is a great amp, with some nice features like phase shift, remote bass knob, and the like.
That sounds pimpin to the max there Vdub! I thought I was the only person who wanted a cooler built in the car. Two seperate boxes probably wouldn't be too much of a difference, except more wood will be required. Some may say cancellations may be an issue, but in my expeirence it's really not. But I'm not a pro like some of thes guys. Sounds like you have a really decent sized trunk to work with too.
VDUBluvr on 03/27/2007 13:26:49
Alright so if i make two seperate boxes what dimensions do i need to build them?
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/28/2007 03:04:01
It calls for a 2.0cubic foot internal volume, with a port 12 and quater inchel long, 4 inches round. My math skills are slacking here, so we will have to wait for a pro to get us external diminsions.
Here is a link for boxes and parameters for the Infinity 1252W
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/1252W.pdf
Love infinty for their manuals and specs for their products. Thats some good customer support!
cplkittle on 03/29/2007 00:46:42
hey vdub... I am out of town right now, but I'll be back home this weekend. I will shoot you some dimensions when I have a chance to sit down and play with some numbers.
VDUBluvr on 03/31/2007 15:37:24
awesome thnx cplkittle
swez on 03/31/2007 19:00:32
This sub recommends a 1.25 cf sealed per chamber or 2.0 cf ported. Since these are 12's, you may like sealed best here in a trunk only install. Ported boxes are larger and tend to boost the lower end bass for Rock and such, but when listening to Rap, the low end can get pretty out of balance and just give lots of deep lows, but no punch for Rock and other types of music.
As for sealed applications, use a dual chamber box for them or make 2 identical sub boxes. Each chamber could be as noted below: (External dimensions here)
Height: 16.0"
Width: 16.0"
Depth: 12.0"
Board: 3/4" MDF
Internal air space: 1.278 cf per chamber
Dual Box:
Height: 16.0"
Width: 32 3/4"
Depth: 12.0"
Board: 3/4" MDF
Internal air space: 1.278 cf per chamber
Use a divider board here to give 2 separate sealed chambers in one box. It also helps add support bracing for the long board widths as well.
Finally, if you wish to go ported, we can do this with the same H and W dimensions, but make it deeper. (About 18" deep will net 2.0 cf/sub) We need 2 ports here. 12 1/4" long and 4.0" dia for proper tuning. That would be 1 port per chamber.
Comments?
Swez
Replies (25)
Hoova63 on 03/20/2007 17:40:47
Personally I think infinity amps sound really good with there subs if you want to spend that. I'm gonna check something out and shoot you a good model number. I guess it also depends on what your shooting for as far as your sound and your musical preference. I'm not a pro so you should probably wait on these other guys responses first. Cause they really know what there talking about they have helped me quite a few times
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/21/2007 00:51:33
I think in terms of cost/power effiencey, an 1 ohm stable amp would treat you beat here, or a large 2 channel amp. I personally reccomend the Diamond D3800.1.
Spec built enclosures would be the best way to go here. What kind of music do you listen to? This will give us a good idea of whether to go ported or sealed on this.
Nice choice on the Reference 12's man. Definitely one of my favorite subs.
VDUBluvr on 03/21/2007 14:29:55
Thanks guys i mainly listen to rap music but i like to switch it up every once in a while and listen to some rock (emo, punk) and i also watch them movies with the lady. Also i see on here that some people are told to upgrade their alternators do i need to do that?
newB on 03/21/2007 18:43:46
shouldnt, but really depends on your entire system.
+ other electronics in the car
-Drew
cplkittle on 03/21/2007 18:56:05
You should not need to upgrade your alternator, however, capacitors, batteries, and alternators are all upgrades done after everything is installed, and an assesment is done on how much strain the audio system is putting on the current alt and battery.
Judging by your taste in music, I would suggest you buy / build a ported box tuned in the 32-36Hz range. You have a really roomy trunk, but a large box is not always necessary. Here are the characteristics of box designs
Sealed box = tight, punchy, hard hitting bass. not as loud as ported, and will not reproduce the lows like a ported box will.
Ported box = up to 2x volume, picks up lower notes. Not as accurate as sealed box, and not as tight.
These are not HUGE differences. It is hard to tell sometimes, even for the seasoned installers, what is in a trunk.
Amplifier.. A monoblock (Single channel) somewhere in the 600-800 watt RMS range that is 2 ohm stable should do the trick. The diamond D3 that McB suggested is a nice choice.
VDUBluvr on 03/22/2007 00:12:11
Awesome you guys are great help next question:
When building a box for my subs, as cplkittie stated i build/buy one in the 32-36Hz range, how do i build it to those specs?
I'm new to this like i said and want to learn everything. I'll be asking alot of questions.
newB on 03/22/2007 04:47:15
use the reaudio.com box calculator, OR WinISD.
i like both.
or just get specs from a shop
or do as much as you can then post on a forum such as this and hae them double check your math and BUILD
-Drew
jamesp on 03/22/2007 07:56:02
VDUBluvr, if you are serious about learning everything about 12V electronics there is a superb tutorial available right here....
Look above the Google search bar on the left side of this page , up a bit from here. under links, select "General Car Audio Help" open that page then look down at the 5th title "Basic Car Audio Electronics" open that and work your way thru the sections.
It is a great way to brush up on 12V electronics and covers a lot of aspects of this hobby from crossover function to loudspeaker design principles.. Ohms Law demonstrates why you can power 1500 watts of home amplification with a 14 ga. wire while you may need a 2 ga. or 1/0 ga. wire to do the same with a 12 volt system...Good stuff..
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/22/2007 10:05:21
Man this is why I love Infinity.....They always have specs for their sub's boxes online. But right of now, their website is down, so I can't bust them out. I am 95% sure that that they call for 1.75 ft3 ported boxes, and I believe it is a 4 inch round port with about 8" of length. I will scope it out once their site comes back up. I'm not sure what the PTF will be, but I would stake my life that these things will DUMP if installed properly.
VDUBluvr on 03/23/2007 13:21:18
Ok so if i get that Diamond D3 amp do i only need one of them or two?
cplkittle on 03/23/2007 20:12:25
You will only need one D3 800.1 for the two subs.
We can walk you through the box construction if you want to build it yourself.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/24/2007 06:30:18
What he said. You have picked a pretty easy set of subs to work with, except the DVC option does call for a stouter amp in wattage or ohmage when dealing with four 4-ohm coils.
VDUBluvr on 03/24/2007 19:03:22
Oh awesome that makes my wallet happier!
Alright now we got to the part i've been wondering about:
How do i construct the box for these subs?
cplkittle on 03/24/2007 20:53:25
You will need one sheet of 3/4" MDF (Medium Density Fiberboard) available at lowes or home depot. This is the easiest wood to work with and it is the perfect material acoustically. If you store it for any period of time, make sure it is either flat or well supported. The wood will warp if you lean it up against anything, especially if there is any moisture in the air. Don't worry though, it is very strong in small pieces.
You will need a good wood glue and some 1 1/2" staples or nails. You can use screws if you want, but the wood splits easily, and you will need to predrill the holes to prevent splitting. The nails, screws or staples are not important as far as holding it together, they are only needed to hold the wood together until the glue dries.
I prefer titebond 2 or titebond 3. It dries quickly and is waterproof.
Use a decent amount (enough to squeeze out when the two pieces are put together).
We will help you with box size and port size when you give us the available dimensions of the trunk.
VDUBluvr on 03/24/2007 21:14:45
Is there anywhere i can find specific dimensions or do you need me to go out there and measure it with a tape measure?
cplkittle on 03/24/2007 21:49:33
You will have to measure it yourself. Try to imagine how you will have to put it in the car if it is going into a trunk. If it is a hatchback, you don't have to worry about it too much.
I have built boxes before that would physically fit according to the measurements, but getting it into the trunk was impossible.
Most boxes will be somewhere in the 14x14x32 range. a 12" sub needs 14" to mount in properly.
trunkisloud on 03/24/2007 23:27:06
hey shoota...do you own the diamond amp you mention here...seems like you are partial to them.....if so what are you powering with it and how much power is it outputting. ive heard that diamond is good but never had experience with them.
cplkittle on 03/24/2007 23:55:14
I have the older D3600.1 in my wife's car. I believe it has 2x40 amp fuses if I remember correctly, but it is only powering one 15" diamond sub. The gain is just over half. She has no electrical upgrades, and no troubles.
VDUBluvr on 03/25/2007 00:21:01
okay i measured and a 14x14x32 would fit in there. the inside of my trunk is 42" across and 20" from the top to the bottom. where i want the speakers placed it is 18" from the front of the box to the back of the seats.
What is the difference between having one big box for both subs or having individual boxes?
I'm thinking, if possible i want to do the seperate boxes cause i have some crazy ideas for my trunk. i'm going to install a cooler where the spare goes and some lights and such. i'm going to cover off the rest of my trunk with some stretched carpet that blends in with my sub boxes. this is my plan for my trunk.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/25/2007 10:38:42
I don't own a Diamond yet, but this is by far my favorite amp I have ever installed. The D3 WILL be my next purchase for a sub amp, unless my buddy can get me a Focal setup. I used it in a homie's 94 Ford Tempo with a pair of D3 12's, and to date, this is the best way I have ever seen $500 spent (that was deck, amp, subs, enclosure, wiring ect. included in the 500) . It is rated 800RMS @ 1 ohm, makes very clean power, is a very cool running amp when properly used and installed. Like Kit's wife's ride, no charging/electrical mods, no trouble. Reminds me of an AK, cheap, reliable, deadly, looks sick!
The reason that usually bring up the D3 800.1 on the boards is that it is the first amp that comes to mind when 4 ohm DVC subs are brought up. Plus it is a great amp, with some nice features like phase shift, remote bass knob, and the like.
That sounds pimpin to the max there Vdub! I thought I was the only person who wanted a cooler built in the car. Two seperate boxes probably wouldn't be too much of a difference, except more wood will be required. Some may say cancellations may be an issue, but in my expeirence it's really not. But I'm not a pro like some of thes guys. Sounds like you have a really decent sized trunk to work with too.
VDUBluvr on 03/27/2007 13:26:49
Alright so if i make two seperate boxes what dimensions do i need to build them?
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/28/2007 03:04:01
It calls for a 2.0cubic foot internal volume, with a port 12 and quater inchel long, 4 inches round. My math skills are slacking here, so we will have to wait for a pro to get us external diminsions.
Here is a link for boxes and parameters for the Infinity 1252W
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/1252W.pdf
Love infinty for their manuals and specs for their products. Thats some good customer support!
cplkittle on 03/29/2007 00:46:42
hey vdub... I am out of town right now, but I'll be back home this weekend. I will shoot you some dimensions when I have a chance to sit down and play with some numbers.
VDUBluvr on 03/31/2007 15:37:24
awesome thnx cplkittle
swez on 03/31/2007 19:00:32
This sub recommends a 1.25 cf sealed per chamber or 2.0 cf ported. Since these are 12's, you may like sealed best here in a trunk only install. Ported boxes are larger and tend to boost the lower end bass for Rock and such, but when listening to Rap, the low end can get pretty out of balance and just give lots of deep lows, but no punch for Rock and other types of music.
As for sealed applications, use a dual chamber box for them or make 2 identical sub boxes. Each chamber could be as noted below: (External dimensions here)
Height: 16.0"
Width: 16.0"
Depth: 12.0"
Board: 3/4" MDF
Internal air space: 1.278 cf per chamber
Dual Box:
Height: 16.0"
Width: 32 3/4"
Depth: 12.0"
Board: 3/4" MDF
Internal air space: 1.278 cf per chamber
Use a divider board here to give 2 separate sealed chambers in one box. It also helps add support bracing for the long board widths as well.
Finally, if you wish to go ported, we can do this with the same H and W dimensions, but make it deeper. (About 18" deep will net 2.0 cf/sub) We need 2 ports here. 12 1/4" long and 4.0" dia for proper tuning. That would be 1 port per chamber.
Comments?
Swez
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