I'm new to installing some car audio stuff. I was thinking about creating a custom box for my Civic coupe. My plan was that I would get 2 10" subs and then a 2-channel amp for it. I was going to make the enclosure rest flush against my back seat in the trunk with some intricate angles. I'm not sure what is best though for this kind of setup, vented or sealed and depending on which one should I have the subs face in with the sound directed into the box or faced out where the sound goes away from the box? And what is the best setup for when I get a 2-channel amp, what kind of output is best for not blowing up the subs or draining the battery?
Replies (20)
swez on 03/5/2007 17:48:38
Welcome to CK... we're soft on rookies too.
Depending on the subs and power you plan to use for them, a Class D MONO amp is better than 2/4 channel version for bass only apps. Class D amps are about 80% efficient. Class A/B types. (2/4 channels) are only about 60% efficient. An efficient amp is impotant in small import cars as they generally have pretty modest alternators and minimal battery current to spare.
Sealed subs are great for accuracy, tight, crisp bass and they can go low as well. Ported/vented are best for extra deep bass and more efficient at the port tuning frequency. Ported enclosures are larger and take more planning to build/tune them properly.
Do you have a rough budget estimate and power needs for this package?
Are you planning to use any amplifcation for your mid/high speakers too?
Have you built enclosures before? It's not rocket science type stuff, but one needs to have accurate tools when doing angle cuts. A few degrees off is enough to create plenty of fire wood.
Here's a good site to browse for gear. They are not the cheapest guys to buy from, but the technical info on the gear they carry is 2nd to none:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HqBgIUBlEsu/
FYI: Large amplifiers, (600 watt RMS and up) draw a lot of current when they are pumping out strong bass. A 600 watt amp will draw over 55 amperes of current at full power. This vehicle has a very modest stock ALT/BAT power supply and may only be rated for 75-85 amperes of current above 2,000 RPM. At idle speeds, about half that number is available. Keep that in mind when choosing any/all amplifiers you will use.
OK, say more and we'll give ya some ideas along the path.
Swez
PS Do your rear seats drop down for larger stowage items?
footedphoenix87 on 03/5/2007 21:47:16
Yeah, I do have fold down rear seats. The custom box I was going to create was going to be very easy to remove and easy to disconnect if I do need that extra room for trips or something. I was planning on getting just about any amp that was in a good price range, but you definitely put some light on was is best and now a couple extra bucks may be needed to get the right stuff. I was going to buy used with probably a $200 budget for 2 10's and an amp just for the subs. I wasn't planning on getting another amp for current speakers, which are 2 6's in the front with stock tweeters and 2 6 x 9's in the back, all plugged into a very decent Pioneer deck. I was going to use a 3D modeling program to lay out how I want it to look and then create a plan/drawing from it to go by to ensure preciseness. What would you say is the best way to make sure the box is sealed and is the carpet really necessary to cover it up? I'm not very good at tuning right now and not really concerned with it, I just want some good bass and then when I finally gain the ears to hear understand when the tuning is off, then I'll worry about. Your advice definitely put some thoughts into perspective, thank you!
cplkittle on 03/5/2007 22:13:03
You really don't need carpet for the box, it is just for cosmetics. When building a sealed box, the best way to make sure it is sealed is to make perfectly square cuts and use a good wood glue Loctite 2 or 3 is a good choice.
If your cuts are off, or if you are just worried about getting a good seal, you can use liquid nails instead of glue, or just caulk the inside seams once the box is built. The size of the cutout holes are just as important as the box being square and sealed. If you cut the holes too big, it will be difficult to get the speaker to seal in the box. You can use foam weatherstripping around the speaker hole if the speaker does not have a rubber gasket or beauty ring that will seal off once it is installed.
With a seat that folds down, you can aim the speakers either toward the front or toward the back. If you aim them toward the front of the vehicle and let the seat down you get a cleaner sharper bass, but it will be muffled with the seat up. If they face the rear, it will tend to sound lower due to the distance the soundwave has to travel to bounce off the trunk and return to the cabin. You will get less trunk rattle with the speakers facing foreward and the seat down.
If you give us the available dimensions of your trunk, there are several of us here that will design a box for you if you wan to go ported. Just keep in mind when measuring that a box may physicaly fit in the trunk, but will it be able to go in and come out as well. (mustangs are the worst).
Are you stuck on 2 10's? If you go with a ported box, a single 12" sub will easily outperform 2 10's on lows with a low budget like we have here. If you are looking for accuracy and clean sound, a pair of 10's in a sealed box is hard to beat.
I guess our next questions are:
What kind of music do you listen to mostly, and do you want the deeper bass?
Is there any brand in particular that you are looking at?
swez on 03/5/2007 23:04:45
OK, since this is your first adventure and don't have a ton of cash to dish out, consider 1 quality 12" sub and a modest Class D amp. Neither will take up much room, add much weight or take a big bite out of your wallet. In a small car like this, a single sub will more than overpower your Pioneer HU amps at 300 watts RMS. It won't put a big strain on your electricals either. Consider these as options:
Amps:
1. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SzV6lWovtg0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=500MRPM450 (Alpine sub amp)
2. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=108R311A (Infinity sub amp)
3. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=236TC3001 (MTX sub amp)
Subs:
1. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1243 (Alpine SWS Series 12")
2. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081252W (Infinity Ref Series 12")
3. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=109GT1504D (JBL GTO Series 12")
You can do a google search for these products and find them much cheaper off e-bay, Techronics, Onlinecarstereo, or Sonicelectronics.
The best value is what you are looking for. These are all above average products in sound and performance, but well discounted too. Best guess, that would probably be the Infinity Ref 311a amp and the Infinity Ref 12" sub. (4+4 Dual voice coil)
Sealed is a good option for the first time builder. The slanted back will be a little tricky if you don't have access to a well calibrated table saw. A good carpenter can do a good job with a Skil saw and guide rails, but if you get a little off line, better have access to a good belt sander.
When sealing the joints inside against air leaks, we mostly use silicone type RTV sealant. Just let it cure overnight, before installing the sub.
Carpeting is not an abosolute need, but it does give a nice finished look and the box will not slide around in back either. You can use 2" O.D. rubber feet and this will keep it planted pretty well too.
Use 3/4" thick MDF board for your box and plan on glue and screwing the joints together. (2" drywall screws, #6-8 if fine) Just make sure you use pilot holes (1/8") for the screws so they don't split the wood. Countersinking the heads is a good idea too. The glue is the main bonding agent, (Elmer's Carpenter's wood glue) the screws just hold panels firmly in place until the glue cures.
Here's a very good site for calculating panel cuts and getting the proper internal dimensions for a sealed box:
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
You won't need internal bracing for this size enclosure and tee nuts for the speaker mounts are optional. (4-8, # 10 x 1" sheet metal screws with phillips heads are more than adequate.
Termination cups add a finished look to any enclosure. Use binding posts types and not the el-cheepo spring clips we see in low budget boxes. The springs often fail or loose grip on the speaker wires. Not good.
Comments?
Swez
PS When responding to posts, please break up the topics into paragraphs as I have shown. It's much easier to read than long run on sentences. Thank You!
jamesp on 03/6/2007 12:45:15
What factors would influence the decision in buying, say an Alpine (since this is the only car sub I have have ever owned) type R or type S sub? Are the letter designations shared across brands? I see that the S is quite a bit shorter so mounting concerns would be a consideration.
Another question from the inquisitive idiot.
footedphoenix87 on 03/6/2007 13:15:40
Definitely appreciate the responses I'm getting, they are very helpful!
I'm pretty set on the 2 10's because I like the fact that I can make the setup look pretty symmetrical and plus I'm pretty anal about that kind of stuff so symmetry is key in my design. I know it might cost me a little more than I planned, but that's a sacrifice I'm going to have to make.
I was going to get all the dimensions from my trunk and use them as boundaries for when I design the box in my 3D program. I'm in an engineering occupation so I have a lot of help when it comes to clearances and what not. And because of that, my box is going to be perfectly designed when I'm ready to build, at least for making sure the box is cleaned up on edges and clearances, how the angles and depths are going to be made I'm still up in the air.
Like I said before, my box is going to have some tricky angles. For example, from the top view, my box might look something like the next reply I described it in.
If I were to go with a Class D mono amp, would I still be able to split that and power both my 10's?
And to answer cplkittle's Q, I listen to mostly about any style of rock music and I listened to hip hop and rap as well. That's why I was shooting for the 10's so I wouldn't get that heavy bass when I'm listening to my rock music, but the rap is on, I think by having the 2 10's instead of 1 will give me the bass I'm looking for.
footedphoenix87 on 03/6/2007 13:21:06
That picture didn't come out right. So I'm going to try and describe it. The back will be flat, but at an angle to sit flush against the back seat. The sides will be at no angle and will match that of a regular box. The front will have the combination, in order: sub - amp - sub. The subs will sit at angles somewhat facing each other, but also sitting at angles somewhat facing the trunk hatch. The amp will sit parrellel with the back side, but also have an angle facing somewhat towards the top of the trunk hatch and be close to the back side than the subs will be.
I hope I described it well enough...
cplkittle on 03/6/2007 13:31:46
You can connect a class D mono amplifier to as many subs as you want as long as the ohm load of the speakers is within the amplifier's handling capability. If you purchase an amplifier that is 1 ohm stable, a pair of 10's that are dual 4 ohm voice coils will work fine. My only concern is that a sealed box might not give you the lows you are looking for. Let us know, when you get your calculations, what the available internal airspace is for the enclosure.
swez on 03/6/2007 20:05:15
OK, a pair of 10's is also a nice mix and you can go sealed for tight, crisp bass or ported for the deep low bass and not so much punch.
It's back to the budget question and how much power you plan use us to run the subs. In this case, consider 2 medium power 10's, 4 ohm single coils and 300-500 watts RMS power to the pair. If you go much larger than 500 watts in a bass amp, power shortage issues could become a problem and more costly too.
If you would, get some measurments as to the space you have to work in for this sub box. With that, we can give you some sub recommendations to fit a give size box.
Do you want sealed or ported here? One can get very good symmetry either way. It just depends on the space and type of port used. Vents are more work and take up more space in a box. Round or flared ports work nice as they are more compact and less complex to build.
Comments?
Swez
footedphoenix87 on 03/14/2007 12:25:27
So far I know I'm going for a sealed custom box to fit 2 10's and single Class D amp. My question is, what is the best setup that consists of excellent quality sound and fits a very good budget. For example, what is the best 2 subs or amp in my budget and what's the best quality setup between the 2 main products? I'm still not sure what the best way to go is considering my battery and trunk space for a compact car, I'm still fuzzy on what the best setup is considering OHM loads and watt capacity and usage. Try to figure what the cheapest setup will cost while factoring in the specifications I'm looking for previously mentioned.
...Still haven't gotten my dimensions yet, but will soon.
cplkittle on 03/14/2007 17:30:41
maybe this will help a little..
class D mono amplers
If the amp is 2 ohm stable you need:
2 single 4 ohm voice coil subs or
2 dual 2 ohm voice coil subs
If the amp is 1 ohm stable you need:
2 single 2 ohm voice coil subs or
2 dual 4 ohm voice coil subs
I can't remember if you metioned whether or not you were going to amplify your mids and highs.
If you are looking for clean sound and don't want to amplify the front speakers, I would look for an amplifier between 500 and 1000 watts RMS power. and the RMS wattage of the speakers should ADD up to the same as the amplifier. (600watt RMS amp = 2 x 300watt RMS subs). The lower wattage would fit here nicely without overpowering the front speakers and without putting alot of strain on the battery.
footedphoenix87 on 03/14/2007 18:44:31
Between the stability of the ohm load on certain amps, which would be more efficient? And which subs would be efficient, single or duals, with the amp ohm load you would suggest?
I am only amplifying my low's because the HU powers my current speakers just fine.
And the RMS wattage should never by higher than the total RMS wattage on the subs right?
cplkittle on 03/14/2007 20:09:20
you can go with a little bigger amp as long as you set the gain properly. I wouldn't go any bigger than say 20%.
dual voice coils versus single... no difference in sound or performance, just more wiring options.
I would definitely stay with a class D mono (single channel). I would say that half are 1 ohm stable the other half are 2 ohm stable.
Tell us how much you plan to spend on the 2 subs and amp and we will throw out some suggestions.
footedphoenix87 on 03/15/2007 13:16:45
Would this setup be sufficient:
Amp:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=500MRDM605
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=108R611A
Subs:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1023
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1043
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P210S4
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWE1042
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P210D4
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081050W
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=2067C10VR2
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=236T55104
Which would you say is the best combo out of these? Remember, I'm looking for 2 subs. And in this case, I've included some of the options that I would probably pay for.
I don't understand though what the difference is in compenent subs and non-component subs.
footedphoenix87 on 03/15/2007 13:20:50
And with the setup you think would be best, what would you suggest for total volume capacity? Fortunately my 3D program allows me to calculate volume capacity inside my model.
cplkittle on 03/15/2007 14:12:56
Concerning the amplifiers.. I would go with the infinity. Alpine is a great brand, but with infinity's reliability, the extra power and the $100 lighter price tag makes this amp the more economical choice.
I'm not a big fan of fosgate's lower power line. Since both amps are 2 ohm stable, the infinity reference subs (dual 2 ohm or single 4) would work well, and the MTX single 4 subs would also match up nicely.
If you don't mind buying from ebay, I would also suggest taking a look at Diamond Audio's D3 line. The D3800.1 (800 watts RMS @ 1 ohm) and a pair of D310D4 (dual 4 ohm 400w RMS ea) would be a nice match. I am very familiar and have been very impressed with this particular line of products. You should be able to get the amp and subs for around $450.
The box will depend on the subs. I would follow the manufacturers recommendation as far as enclosure size is concerned.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/15/2007 14:22:59
I will also vouch for the Diamond D3 lineup. Out of all the systems I have installed, the D3 12 was by far the most impressive setup i ever worked with. With it also came the D3800.1. Did the little 94 Tempo a little too much justice and was stolen out of said unlocked vehicle 3 months later.
Is that $450 shipped? I lost my DA discount when my homie switched jobs. Heartbreaking, as I want the same stuff.
footedphoenix87 on 03/15/2007 14:40:58
Ok, let's say I were to go with the infinity amp (I was favoring that one anyways) and the 2 of the MTX subs you picked out, the volume capacity they mention in the subs specs is what I would work with right? And since I'm getting 2, I just double the volume capacity specified by the manufacturer? If so, would I need to separate the volumes in my enclosure individually to the subs and basically make my enclosure into 3 sections?
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/15/2007 14:56:36
Generally, unless a super complex airspace/port system is employed, it is best to seperate chambers incase one sub fails, it won't take the other down with it.
cplkittle on 03/16/2007 17:34:53
If you are going with a sealed box, it is recommended to seperate the airspace. I am not sure where you came up with 3 sections though. It would be more like two seperate boxes joined together.
Replies (20)
swez on 03/5/2007 17:48:38
Welcome to CK... we're soft on rookies too.
Depending on the subs and power you plan to use for them, a Class D MONO amp is better than 2/4 channel version for bass only apps. Class D amps are about 80% efficient. Class A/B types. (2/4 channels) are only about 60% efficient. An efficient amp is impotant in small import cars as they generally have pretty modest alternators and minimal battery current to spare.
Sealed subs are great for accuracy, tight, crisp bass and they can go low as well. Ported/vented are best for extra deep bass and more efficient at the port tuning frequency. Ported enclosures are larger and take more planning to build/tune them properly.
Do you have a rough budget estimate and power needs for this package?
Are you planning to use any amplifcation for your mid/high speakers too?
Have you built enclosures before? It's not rocket science type stuff, but one needs to have accurate tools when doing angle cuts. A few degrees off is enough to create plenty of fire wood.
Here's a good site to browse for gear. They are not the cheapest guys to buy from, but the technical info on the gear they carry is 2nd to none:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-HqBgIUBlEsu/
FYI: Large amplifiers, (600 watt RMS and up) draw a lot of current when they are pumping out strong bass. A 600 watt amp will draw over 55 amperes of current at full power. This vehicle has a very modest stock ALT/BAT power supply and may only be rated for 75-85 amperes of current above 2,000 RPM. At idle speeds, about half that number is available. Keep that in mind when choosing any/all amplifiers you will use.
OK, say more and we'll give ya some ideas along the path.
Swez
PS Do your rear seats drop down for larger stowage items?
footedphoenix87 on 03/5/2007 21:47:16
Yeah, I do have fold down rear seats. The custom box I was going to create was going to be very easy to remove and easy to disconnect if I do need that extra room for trips or something. I was planning on getting just about any amp that was in a good price range, but you definitely put some light on was is best and now a couple extra bucks may be needed to get the right stuff. I was going to buy used with probably a $200 budget for 2 10's and an amp just for the subs. I wasn't planning on getting another amp for current speakers, which are 2 6's in the front with stock tweeters and 2 6 x 9's in the back, all plugged into a very decent Pioneer deck. I was going to use a 3D modeling program to lay out how I want it to look and then create a plan/drawing from it to go by to ensure preciseness. What would you say is the best way to make sure the box is sealed and is the carpet really necessary to cover it up? I'm not very good at tuning right now and not really concerned with it, I just want some good bass and then when I finally gain the ears to hear understand when the tuning is off, then I'll worry about. Your advice definitely put some thoughts into perspective, thank you!
cplkittle on 03/5/2007 22:13:03
You really don't need carpet for the box, it is just for cosmetics. When building a sealed box, the best way to make sure it is sealed is to make perfectly square cuts and use a good wood glue Loctite 2 or 3 is a good choice.
If your cuts are off, or if you are just worried about getting a good seal, you can use liquid nails instead of glue, or just caulk the inside seams once the box is built. The size of the cutout holes are just as important as the box being square and sealed. If you cut the holes too big, it will be difficult to get the speaker to seal in the box. You can use foam weatherstripping around the speaker hole if the speaker does not have a rubber gasket or beauty ring that will seal off once it is installed.
With a seat that folds down, you can aim the speakers either toward the front or toward the back. If you aim them toward the front of the vehicle and let the seat down you get a cleaner sharper bass, but it will be muffled with the seat up. If they face the rear, it will tend to sound lower due to the distance the soundwave has to travel to bounce off the trunk and return to the cabin. You will get less trunk rattle with the speakers facing foreward and the seat down.
If you give us the available dimensions of your trunk, there are several of us here that will design a box for you if you wan to go ported. Just keep in mind when measuring that a box may physicaly fit in the trunk, but will it be able to go in and come out as well. (mustangs are the worst).
Are you stuck on 2 10's? If you go with a ported box, a single 12" sub will easily outperform 2 10's on lows with a low budget like we have here. If you are looking for accuracy and clean sound, a pair of 10's in a sealed box is hard to beat.
I guess our next questions are:
What kind of music do you listen to mostly, and do you want the deeper bass?
Is there any brand in particular that you are looking at?
swez on 03/5/2007 23:04:45
OK, since this is your first adventure and don't have a ton of cash to dish out, consider 1 quality 12" sub and a modest Class D amp. Neither will take up much room, add much weight or take a big bite out of your wallet. In a small car like this, a single sub will more than overpower your Pioneer HU amps at 300 watts RMS. It won't put a big strain on your electricals either. Consider these as options:
Amps:
1. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-SzV6lWovtg0/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=500MRPM450 (Alpine sub amp)
2. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=108R311A (Infinity sub amp)
3. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=236TC3001 (MTX sub amp)
Subs:
1. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1243 (Alpine SWS Series 12")
2. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081252W (Infinity Ref Series 12")
3. http://www.crutchfield.com/S-1aJZ9kVcMXN/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=109GT1504D (JBL GTO Series 12")
You can do a google search for these products and find them much cheaper off e-bay, Techronics, Onlinecarstereo, or Sonicelectronics.
The best value is what you are looking for. These are all above average products in sound and performance, but well discounted too. Best guess, that would probably be the Infinity Ref 311a amp and the Infinity Ref 12" sub. (4+4 Dual voice coil)
Sealed is a good option for the first time builder. The slanted back will be a little tricky if you don't have access to a well calibrated table saw. A good carpenter can do a good job with a Skil saw and guide rails, but if you get a little off line, better have access to a good belt sander.
When sealing the joints inside against air leaks, we mostly use silicone type RTV sealant. Just let it cure overnight, before installing the sub.
Carpeting is not an abosolute need, but it does give a nice finished look and the box will not slide around in back either. You can use 2" O.D. rubber feet and this will keep it planted pretty well too.
Use 3/4" thick MDF board for your box and plan on glue and screwing the joints together. (2" drywall screws, #6-8 if fine) Just make sure you use pilot holes (1/8") for the screws so they don't split the wood. Countersinking the heads is a good idea too. The glue is the main bonding agent, (Elmer's Carpenter's wood glue) the screws just hold panels firmly in place until the glue cures.
Here's a very good site for calculating panel cuts and getting the proper internal dimensions for a sealed box:
http://www.bcae1.com/spboxnew2.htm
You won't need internal bracing for this size enclosure and tee nuts for the speaker mounts are optional. (4-8, # 10 x 1" sheet metal screws with phillips heads are more than adequate.
Termination cups add a finished look to any enclosure. Use binding posts types and not the el-cheepo spring clips we see in low budget boxes. The springs often fail or loose grip on the speaker wires. Not good.
Comments?
Swez
PS When responding to posts, please break up the topics into paragraphs as I have shown. It's much easier to read than long run on sentences. Thank You!
jamesp on 03/6/2007 12:45:15
What factors would influence the decision in buying, say an Alpine (since this is the only car sub I have have ever owned) type R or type S sub? Are the letter designations shared across brands? I see that the S is quite a bit shorter so mounting concerns would be a consideration.
Another question from the inquisitive idiot.
footedphoenix87 on 03/6/2007 13:15:40
Definitely appreciate the responses I'm getting, they are very helpful!
I'm pretty set on the 2 10's because I like the fact that I can make the setup look pretty symmetrical and plus I'm pretty anal about that kind of stuff so symmetry is key in my design. I know it might cost me a little more than I planned, but that's a sacrifice I'm going to have to make.
I was going to get all the dimensions from my trunk and use them as boundaries for when I design the box in my 3D program. I'm in an engineering occupation so I have a lot of help when it comes to clearances and what not. And because of that, my box is going to be perfectly designed when I'm ready to build, at least for making sure the box is cleaned up on edges and clearances, how the angles and depths are going to be made I'm still up in the air.
Like I said before, my box is going to have some tricky angles. For example, from the top view, my box might look something like the next reply I described it in.
If I were to go with a Class D mono amp, would I still be able to split that and power both my 10's?
And to answer cplkittle's Q, I listen to mostly about any style of rock music and I listened to hip hop and rap as well. That's why I was shooting for the 10's so I wouldn't get that heavy bass when I'm listening to my rock music, but the rap is on, I think by having the 2 10's instead of 1 will give me the bass I'm looking for.
footedphoenix87 on 03/6/2007 13:21:06
That picture didn't come out right. So I'm going to try and describe it. The back will be flat, but at an angle to sit flush against the back seat. The sides will be at no angle and will match that of a regular box. The front will have the combination, in order: sub - amp - sub. The subs will sit at angles somewhat facing each other, but also sitting at angles somewhat facing the trunk hatch. The amp will sit parrellel with the back side, but also have an angle facing somewhat towards the top of the trunk hatch and be close to the back side than the subs will be.
I hope I described it well enough...
cplkittle on 03/6/2007 13:31:46
You can connect a class D mono amplifier to as many subs as you want as long as the ohm load of the speakers is within the amplifier's handling capability. If you purchase an amplifier that is 1 ohm stable, a pair of 10's that are dual 4 ohm voice coils will work fine. My only concern is that a sealed box might not give you the lows you are looking for. Let us know, when you get your calculations, what the available internal airspace is for the enclosure.
swez on 03/6/2007 20:05:15
OK, a pair of 10's is also a nice mix and you can go sealed for tight, crisp bass or ported for the deep low bass and not so much punch.
It's back to the budget question and how much power you plan use us to run the subs. In this case, consider 2 medium power 10's, 4 ohm single coils and 300-500 watts RMS power to the pair. If you go much larger than 500 watts in a bass amp, power shortage issues could become a problem and more costly too.
If you would, get some measurments as to the space you have to work in for this sub box. With that, we can give you some sub recommendations to fit a give size box.
Do you want sealed or ported here? One can get very good symmetry either way. It just depends on the space and type of port used. Vents are more work and take up more space in a box. Round or flared ports work nice as they are more compact and less complex to build.
Comments?
Swez
footedphoenix87 on 03/14/2007 12:25:27
So far I know I'm going for a sealed custom box to fit 2 10's and single Class D amp. My question is, what is the best setup that consists of excellent quality sound and fits a very good budget. For example, what is the best 2 subs or amp in my budget and what's the best quality setup between the 2 main products? I'm still not sure what the best way to go is considering my battery and trunk space for a compact car, I'm still fuzzy on what the best setup is considering OHM loads and watt capacity and usage. Try to figure what the cheapest setup will cost while factoring in the specifications I'm looking for previously mentioned.
...Still haven't gotten my dimensions yet, but will soon.
cplkittle on 03/14/2007 17:30:41
maybe this will help a little..
class D mono amplers
If the amp is 2 ohm stable you need:
2 single 4 ohm voice coil subs or
2 dual 2 ohm voice coil subs
If the amp is 1 ohm stable you need:
2 single 2 ohm voice coil subs or
2 dual 4 ohm voice coil subs
I can't remember if you metioned whether or not you were going to amplify your mids and highs.
If you are looking for clean sound and don't want to amplify the front speakers, I would look for an amplifier between 500 and 1000 watts RMS power. and the RMS wattage of the speakers should ADD up to the same as the amplifier. (600watt RMS amp = 2 x 300watt RMS subs). The lower wattage would fit here nicely without overpowering the front speakers and without putting alot of strain on the battery.
footedphoenix87 on 03/14/2007 18:44:31
Between the stability of the ohm load on certain amps, which would be more efficient? And which subs would be efficient, single or duals, with the amp ohm load you would suggest?
I am only amplifying my low's because the HU powers my current speakers just fine.
And the RMS wattage should never by higher than the total RMS wattage on the subs right?
cplkittle on 03/14/2007 20:09:20
you can go with a little bigger amp as long as you set the gain properly. I wouldn't go any bigger than say 20%.
dual voice coils versus single... no difference in sound or performance, just more wiring options.
I would definitely stay with a class D mono (single channel). I would say that half are 1 ohm stable the other half are 2 ohm stable.
Tell us how much you plan to spend on the 2 subs and amp and we will throw out some suggestions.
footedphoenix87 on 03/15/2007 13:16:45
Would this setup be sufficient:
Amp:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=500MRDM605
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=120&I=108R611A
Subs:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1023
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1043
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P210S4
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWE1042
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=575P210D4
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081050W
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=2067C10VR2
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-VNii85nZfrP/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=236T55104
Which would you say is the best combo out of these? Remember, I'm looking for 2 subs. And in this case, I've included some of the options that I would probably pay for.
I don't understand though what the difference is in compenent subs and non-component subs.
footedphoenix87 on 03/15/2007 13:20:50
And with the setup you think would be best, what would you suggest for total volume capacity? Fortunately my 3D program allows me to calculate volume capacity inside my model.
cplkittle on 03/15/2007 14:12:56
Concerning the amplifiers.. I would go with the infinity. Alpine is a great brand, but with infinity's reliability, the extra power and the $100 lighter price tag makes this amp the more economical choice.
I'm not a big fan of fosgate's lower power line. Since both amps are 2 ohm stable, the infinity reference subs (dual 2 ohm or single 4) would work well, and the MTX single 4 subs would also match up nicely.
If you don't mind buying from ebay, I would also suggest taking a look at Diamond Audio's D3 line. The D3800.1 (800 watts RMS @ 1 ohm) and a pair of D310D4 (dual 4 ohm 400w RMS ea) would be a nice match. I am very familiar and have been very impressed with this particular line of products. You should be able to get the amp and subs for around $450.
The box will depend on the subs. I would follow the manufacturers recommendation as far as enclosure size is concerned.
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/15/2007 14:22:59
I will also vouch for the Diamond D3 lineup. Out of all the systems I have installed, the D3 12 was by far the most impressive setup i ever worked with. With it also came the D3800.1. Did the little 94 Tempo a little too much justice and was stolen out of said unlocked vehicle 3 months later.
Is that $450 shipped? I lost my DA discount when my homie switched jobs. Heartbreaking, as I want the same stuff.
footedphoenix87 on 03/15/2007 14:40:58
Ok, let's say I were to go with the infinity amp (I was favoring that one anyways) and the 2 of the MTX subs you picked out, the volume capacity they mention in the subs specs is what I would work with right? And since I'm getting 2, I just double the volume capacity specified by the manufacturer? If so, would I need to separate the volumes in my enclosure individually to the subs and basically make my enclosure into 3 sections?
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 03/15/2007 14:56:36
Generally, unless a super complex airspace/port system is employed, it is best to seperate chambers incase one sub fails, it won't take the other down with it.
cplkittle on 03/16/2007 17:34:53
If you are going with a sealed box, it is recommended to seperate the airspace. I am not sure where you came up with 3 sections though. It would be more like two seperate boxes joined together.
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