Hello guys, I have been doing some extensive research on HO alternators for my 06 Dodge Magnum sxt 3.5 V6. Out of 10 manufacturers Iraggi is the only company that has a product for my vehicle and power requirements.
I currently am running 1 JL 1000/1 powering a JL12W7 ported and tuned to 32hz. For the front stage I am powering a set of a/d/s/ 346cs comps with a JL 300/2. The rear fill is a set of CDT 69X comps powered by a JL A 2150. MY stock alternator is 140 amps and can't supply the demand of power my amps require(light dimming etc.) I have upgrated all engine comp wires with 1/0awg wire and a yellowtop battery is nestled in the trunk right below my amps.
Heres were I need your help. Iraggi HO Alternators has responded to an inquirey with several options for me to choose from. This is what's available for my vehicle w pricing.
200amp/160amp idle $469.
220amp/150amp idle $489.
240amp/140amp idle $509.
260amp/130amp idle $529.
280amp/120amp idle $549.
Yes these products are all expensive and I would appreciate any feedback you guys have with Iraggi products. Currently my MAX current drawl from all amp 160 amps. I am seriously contemplating adding 1 more JL 1000/1 and 1 more 12W7. This would bring my max current drawl up to 260amps. I'd love to hear some professional opinions here and advice for which way to go. I'm going to assume a second yellowtop battery would be in line with a HO alternator. Thanks for any advice in this matter.
Demetrios
Replies (12)
30Hertz on 02/22/2007 22:50:40
Just an FYI, Ive heard many horror stories about alts comming from Irragi
cplkittle on 02/22/2007 22:52:53
I would definitely go with a second yellow top if you get the HO alt.
If you add the second 1000/1 you may never get an alternator that will keep up 100% of the time. That is not a big deal though. Adding a second or even a third battery will help tremendously. As for the Alternator, I would suggest the 160 amp idle.
The reason I would go with the 160amp idle HO alt is because most of the time when you are going to show off, you are parked. When you are competing, you are parked. The higher idle output is what you want in this situation.
If your alternator can't keep up the result is a voltage drop. The JL amplifiers will buffer that down to 11vdc, so your system shouldn't suffer any.
swez on 02/22/2007 23:19:31
A cheaper fix... change the pully diameter to a smaller DIA. pulley so you get more ALT RPM's at low engine speeds.
Adding an extra battery is an option too. But is it really worth the cost for a mere +3 to +6dB more bass? Only you can say. (Or perhaps the wife)
Have you had this rig tested for bass SPL to date? If not, it would be worth consideration. Too much sound dampening may be part of the scenario... but then again, sub box placement adjustments may be helpful too?
Swez
demetman on 02/23/2007 00:26:55
Swez what should I do to determine how much low frequancy is beimg absorbedin thretrunk? I have decided to add a Ho alternator and since I am doing so I need an alternator that work with 260amps max drawl. Maybe I need to rip out some of the many layeers of closed cell foam plagueing by ttrunk area. The sub fires directly into the rear hatch window and smacks my front windshield harder than any where else in the vehicle. Tax time is here and an opportunity is here to spend a little money to perfect this project. What do I need to do to get another 1000/1 and 12w7 well powered up and hitting hard? Thanks guys
Demetrios
swez on 02/23/2007 06:43:16
You may have to consider removing a layer or two of sound absorbing material and try other locations for the present woofer box.
Did your electrical system work properly when the system was first installed? If it did and you have made no major setting changes since then, I wonder if your stock ALT is having problems and is not putting out full power anymore??? (A diode bridge failure?) A simple current/voltage output test will tell that story.
Try www.motorcityreman.com as a possible source for a H.O. ALT. They seem to have a very good product for most vehicles and reasonable prices too.
If you do make this change, that stock #2 power line will probably need to be upgraded to 1/0 gage wiring too. If possible, use both the stock line and run a parallel feeder from your BAT, up to the ALT. This upgrade will allow >300A's of current with minimal wire resistance.
Comments?
Swez
30Hertz on 02/23/2007 13:25:20
Good Reccomendations so far.
If I had to choose between the alts I'd go for the 200/160amp model. Reason being the more amps you can produce at a lower RPM the better. Most comps only let you rev the engine to about 2000rpm and the more power you can produce will = better results. When I had a 200amp alt in my Chevy I was running an Orion 2500d (with 2000watts @1ohm RMS), a Alpine MRV-F450 for my components and I was using a yellow top. At full power I noticed slight dimming and voltage drop but nothing too drastic for me to want to run a second alt.
I like Optimas but I'm currently going with Kinetik Batteries. I know many people that sport them and have awesome results. Their a bit pricey but worth the performance in my opinion. They also have options such as having a power supply that runs off your electrical system that acts like a second alternator that constantly charges your batteries (if you have a second batt or a bank of batts in the back you dont have to run them to your stock electricals, just wire up the power supply and it charges them instead of your alt). IMO this is a great idea and a great option. the only down side is the price they are. Check them out at www.Kinetikaudio.com. Plz keep in mind that I dont have experience with the power supplies but the batts are great.
-PL
demetman on 02/24/2007 01:02:49
Thanks for the replies guys! Swez, I have not had an opportunity to check bass spl besides my own ears. I have the 1000/1 dialed in to the max unclipped input voltage(54.7V) and the sub seems to be in the the best location(resting against my back seat firing into the rear of the vehicle). I have moved the box foreward and listened for bass output and always moved the box as far back as possible.
Yes my trunk is heavily deadened with RaaMat matting and closed cell foam but nothing rattles in the vehicle. The only rattles are the rear fenders on both sides of the car above the back tires. I could remove some foam layers which would be a major pita, as you already know it took me 40+ hours to deaden the beast.
If you guys think the 200amp/160idle will work, thats what I will go with. My current set up needs more juice and always did from the initial instal in this new car. I am not interested in competing and just love listening to all types of music as I comute 30 miles to and from work each day.
I am certain I will add athe additional 1000/1. The only thing I'm worried about is adding the the other amp and not getting enough juice to keep the electricals up to par. Swez you mentioned a smaller pulley, could this be used for a higher output alternator(240amp/140idle) to increase output at idle? Also the main stock power wire that runs from alternator to my battery is 1awg welders cable. Would this have to be upgrated and if yes with what? Many more questions I'm sure will follow. Thanks for the feedback.
Demetrios
swez on 02/24/2007 06:06:42
This amp is doing it's job output wise. You are definitely getting a solid 1000 watts to the sub on that voltage setting.
Now, understand this 1000/1 amp can/will draw about 1250 watts RMS at full power. That equates to about 93A's of current. Double that w/ a 2nd matching amp and add your 300/2 and that's a whopping 214A's of current draw. (Test tones give the worst case scenario here)
A stock 140A ALT will deliver about 65-75A's at idle and full power above ~2,500 RPM. This why we often get minor to severe light dimming issues at idle speeds. Does this problem seem to go away at normal driving speeds?
A smaller diameter pulley on the ALT, will allow more ALT RPM speed at idle. As the ALT's RPM goes up, so will its output capability. So, in a nutshell, yes... a H.O. and a pulley change should help a good deal.
A 1 gage power cable can carry about 250A's of current pretty well, depending on the wire resistance. The acid test is to know how much voltage drop we get between the ALT/Ground and battery terminals. We know it's a good setup if the voltage dpop is under 0.25 volts over the length of that wire.
Oh, refresh my memory Dem... what is the BAT's CCA rating you have in the back right now?
Swez
demetman on 02/25/2007 01:59:10
Hi Swez, my Optima Battery D34/78 has 750 ccamps @ 0 F 870 ccamps @ 32 F and a reserve capacity of 120. My electricals do eventually become strained at high speeds (70mp) and I do experience heavy dimming of head lights at higher volumes especially with heavier bass oriented material.
I have been in contact with Motorcityreman and they do not currently have a HO alternator for my vehicle. As I previously mentioned I have contacted 10 or so well known HO aternator/starter manufacturers and distributers with no luck untill my recent responce from Iraggi HO alternators. I have read in a forum somewhere that they produce very dependable products.
I am currently without my 300/2, about 5 weeks ago I sent it in for warranty service to have the terminal strips replaced and the amp bench tested for a noisy channel causing static in my tweeter when amp is cold. If you recall I had an issue with my Pioneer 7800MP HU when my speaker wire from the 1000/1 accidentally touched the rca going in to the 1000/1 input and fried the internal HU fuse. Since that has been replaced the HU has been doing strange things such as volume control not working at times and sometimes when listening to sirius it just shuts off all together. I am pulling HU next week and dropping it off for more warranty service next week. I really feel beet up and I'm bummed about my equipement failures and need to get things working properly. I have spent sooo much money and time in this car to have things where they are today.
My short term goals are to get my 300/2 and HU repaired and working properly, select the right HO alternator and see if and what needs to be done with my vehicle computer to accept the new alternator (I also read in another forum that my computer would need adjustments if a HO alternator was installed). I have a mechanic friend who would do the alterrnator and or pulley adjustments install for me.
After the Alternator I would like to add another 1000/1 and 12W7 which would require another custom tuned enclosure(I wish this stuff was less expensive). Also it sounds like I will need another duplicate Optima battery. Wow I'm also going to have to pull all amps out and reconfigure them with wiring to street wires distribution and ground block. Ok Swez, here I go again getting to far ahead of where I need to be with these changes. I'm going to take things one step at a time and do things as funds and time allow me to. Again all your expertise is greatly appreciated please let me know what you think here.
Demetrios
swez on 02/25/2007 11:47:26
OK, thanks for the recap and yes, you have indeed had more than your fair share of equipment issues.
Would you consider a more efficient woofer swap here? JL subs are great SQL products. But they are not very efficient (86.2 dB @ 1 watt) and also very expensive. Am thinking a pair of 10's will give you about the same cone area as a single 15" woofer. A pair of 12's will be about the same as a single 18" woofer.
You already have a great amp here, (JL 1000/1) and this amp will deliver a solid 1000 watts RMS between 1.5-4.0 ohm loads. So, the woofer voice coil choices are better than many amps can offer.
The idea am suggesting here, is to limit your cash outlay and get more dB's of clean bass SPL with what you already have. A new enclosure will be part of the plan, along with a pair of robust woofers. But no need to add another expensive amp and a less expensive H.O. ALT would be a real plus too.
Think this over a while and then we can look at other options. How does this idea square with you?
Swez
demetman on 02/25/2007 14:51:51
Well Swez, I do appreciate your thought process as a true Audio Consultant professional to help me reach my goals and minimize spending cash. Your proposal is a tough one and will take some thought. I have currently $850.00 invested into the 12W7 and enclosure alone. The SQ that this sub produces is very much to my liking in the tuned enclosure to 32Hz. I guess you could say the SPL is a bit less than I anticipated. I should have gone with the 13W7 which was an option at time of purchase which may or may not have made the difference for me.
What sub would you reccomend for this application? I looked at Alpine SWR-124D subs but they have a sens of 85v/1m. I also looked at Dayton's sub line with better sens ratings but xmax seems a little restricted with 12mm best for the RS (high output) model. Through some ideas at me so I can look at different subs and compare prices. If I was to go this route I would like to maintain quality sound and increase bass spl by utelizing 2 subs. I don't know what I would do with my 12W7 but lets look some options over. Thanks for your input Swez. Talk to you later.
Demetrios
swez on 02/25/2007 16:23:22
Yes, I know you made a big investment on that JL sub, amp and box. But, does doubling this purchase and adding an expensive H.O. ALT really fit the bill you'll have to pay for them?
That's why I am asking to explore alternate options. Yes, I like the Alpine SWR's for daily drivers, but in this case, you'll probably want a more efficient sub paring. (90db SPL@ 1w/1m or higher) Dayton's are OK too, but not where you are going.
Am waiting for a guy who's trying a CDT 12" woofer to provide some constructive feedback on this SQL sub.
http://www.cdtaudio.com/longexcursionsubs.htm
Swez
I currently am running 1 JL 1000/1 powering a JL12W7 ported and tuned to 32hz. For the front stage I am powering a set of a/d/s/ 346cs comps with a JL 300/2. The rear fill is a set of CDT 69X comps powered by a JL A 2150. MY stock alternator is 140 amps and can't supply the demand of power my amps require(light dimming etc.) I have upgrated all engine comp wires with 1/0awg wire and a yellowtop battery is nestled in the trunk right below my amps.
Heres were I need your help. Iraggi HO Alternators has responded to an inquirey with several options for me to choose from. This is what's available for my vehicle w pricing.
200amp/160amp idle $469.
220amp/150amp idle $489.
240amp/140amp idle $509.
260amp/130amp idle $529.
280amp/120amp idle $549.
Yes these products are all expensive and I would appreciate any feedback you guys have with Iraggi products. Currently my MAX current drawl from all amp 160 amps. I am seriously contemplating adding 1 more JL 1000/1 and 1 more 12W7. This would bring my max current drawl up to 260amps. I'd love to hear some professional opinions here and advice for which way to go. I'm going to assume a second yellowtop battery would be in line with a HO alternator. Thanks for any advice in this matter.
Demetrios
Replies (12)
30Hertz on 02/22/2007 22:50:40
Just an FYI, Ive heard many horror stories about alts comming from Irragi
cplkittle on 02/22/2007 22:52:53
I would definitely go with a second yellow top if you get the HO alt.
If you add the second 1000/1 you may never get an alternator that will keep up 100% of the time. That is not a big deal though. Adding a second or even a third battery will help tremendously. As for the Alternator, I would suggest the 160 amp idle.
The reason I would go with the 160amp idle HO alt is because most of the time when you are going to show off, you are parked. When you are competing, you are parked. The higher idle output is what you want in this situation.
If your alternator can't keep up the result is a voltage drop. The JL amplifiers will buffer that down to 11vdc, so your system shouldn't suffer any.
swez on 02/22/2007 23:19:31
A cheaper fix... change the pully diameter to a smaller DIA. pulley so you get more ALT RPM's at low engine speeds.
Adding an extra battery is an option too. But is it really worth the cost for a mere +3 to +6dB more bass? Only you can say. (Or perhaps the wife)
Have you had this rig tested for bass SPL to date? If not, it would be worth consideration. Too much sound dampening may be part of the scenario... but then again, sub box placement adjustments may be helpful too?
Swez
demetman on 02/23/2007 00:26:55
Swez what should I do to determine how much low frequancy is beimg absorbedin thretrunk? I have decided to add a Ho alternator and since I am doing so I need an alternator that work with 260amps max drawl. Maybe I need to rip out some of the many layeers of closed cell foam plagueing by ttrunk area. The sub fires directly into the rear hatch window and smacks my front windshield harder than any where else in the vehicle. Tax time is here and an opportunity is here to spend a little money to perfect this project. What do I need to do to get another 1000/1 and 12w7 well powered up and hitting hard? Thanks guys
Demetrios
swez on 02/23/2007 06:43:16
You may have to consider removing a layer or two of sound absorbing material and try other locations for the present woofer box.
Did your electrical system work properly when the system was first installed? If it did and you have made no major setting changes since then, I wonder if your stock ALT is having problems and is not putting out full power anymore??? (A diode bridge failure?) A simple current/voltage output test will tell that story.
Try www.motorcityreman.com as a possible source for a H.O. ALT. They seem to have a very good product for most vehicles and reasonable prices too.
If you do make this change, that stock #2 power line will probably need to be upgraded to 1/0 gage wiring too. If possible, use both the stock line and run a parallel feeder from your BAT, up to the ALT. This upgrade will allow >300A's of current with minimal wire resistance.
Comments?
Swez
30Hertz on 02/23/2007 13:25:20
Good Reccomendations so far.
If I had to choose between the alts I'd go for the 200/160amp model. Reason being the more amps you can produce at a lower RPM the better. Most comps only let you rev the engine to about 2000rpm and the more power you can produce will = better results. When I had a 200amp alt in my Chevy I was running an Orion 2500d (with 2000watts @1ohm RMS), a Alpine MRV-F450 for my components and I was using a yellow top. At full power I noticed slight dimming and voltage drop but nothing too drastic for me to want to run a second alt.
I like Optimas but I'm currently going with Kinetik Batteries. I know many people that sport them and have awesome results. Their a bit pricey but worth the performance in my opinion. They also have options such as having a power supply that runs off your electrical system that acts like a second alternator that constantly charges your batteries (if you have a second batt or a bank of batts in the back you dont have to run them to your stock electricals, just wire up the power supply and it charges them instead of your alt). IMO this is a great idea and a great option. the only down side is the price they are. Check them out at www.Kinetikaudio.com. Plz keep in mind that I dont have experience with the power supplies but the batts are great.
-PL
demetman on 02/24/2007 01:02:49
Thanks for the replies guys! Swez, I have not had an opportunity to check bass spl besides my own ears. I have the 1000/1 dialed in to the max unclipped input voltage(54.7V) and the sub seems to be in the the best location(resting against my back seat firing into the rear of the vehicle). I have moved the box foreward and listened for bass output and always moved the box as far back as possible.
Yes my trunk is heavily deadened with RaaMat matting and closed cell foam but nothing rattles in the vehicle. The only rattles are the rear fenders on both sides of the car above the back tires. I could remove some foam layers which would be a major pita, as you already know it took me 40+ hours to deaden the beast.
If you guys think the 200amp/160idle will work, thats what I will go with. My current set up needs more juice and always did from the initial instal in this new car. I am not interested in competing and just love listening to all types of music as I comute 30 miles to and from work each day.
I am certain I will add athe additional 1000/1. The only thing I'm worried about is adding the the other amp and not getting enough juice to keep the electricals up to par. Swez you mentioned a smaller pulley, could this be used for a higher output alternator(240amp/140idle) to increase output at idle? Also the main stock power wire that runs from alternator to my battery is 1awg welders cable. Would this have to be upgrated and if yes with what? Many more questions I'm sure will follow. Thanks for the feedback.
Demetrios
swez on 02/24/2007 06:06:42
This amp is doing it's job output wise. You are definitely getting a solid 1000 watts to the sub on that voltage setting.
Now, understand this 1000/1 amp can/will draw about 1250 watts RMS at full power. That equates to about 93A's of current. Double that w/ a 2nd matching amp and add your 300/2 and that's a whopping 214A's of current draw. (Test tones give the worst case scenario here)
A stock 140A ALT will deliver about 65-75A's at idle and full power above ~2,500 RPM. This why we often get minor to severe light dimming issues at idle speeds. Does this problem seem to go away at normal driving speeds?
A smaller diameter pulley on the ALT, will allow more ALT RPM speed at idle. As the ALT's RPM goes up, so will its output capability. So, in a nutshell, yes... a H.O. and a pulley change should help a good deal.
A 1 gage power cable can carry about 250A's of current pretty well, depending on the wire resistance. The acid test is to know how much voltage drop we get between the ALT/Ground and battery terminals. We know it's a good setup if the voltage dpop is under 0.25 volts over the length of that wire.
Oh, refresh my memory Dem... what is the BAT's CCA rating you have in the back right now?
Swez
demetman on 02/25/2007 01:59:10
Hi Swez, my Optima Battery D34/78 has 750 ccamps @ 0 F 870 ccamps @ 32 F and a reserve capacity of 120. My electricals do eventually become strained at high speeds (70mp) and I do experience heavy dimming of head lights at higher volumes especially with heavier bass oriented material.
I have been in contact with Motorcityreman and they do not currently have a HO alternator for my vehicle. As I previously mentioned I have contacted 10 or so well known HO aternator/starter manufacturers and distributers with no luck untill my recent responce from Iraggi HO alternators. I have read in a forum somewhere that they produce very dependable products.
I am currently without my 300/2, about 5 weeks ago I sent it in for warranty service to have the terminal strips replaced and the amp bench tested for a noisy channel causing static in my tweeter when amp is cold. If you recall I had an issue with my Pioneer 7800MP HU when my speaker wire from the 1000/1 accidentally touched the rca going in to the 1000/1 input and fried the internal HU fuse. Since that has been replaced the HU has been doing strange things such as volume control not working at times and sometimes when listening to sirius it just shuts off all together. I am pulling HU next week and dropping it off for more warranty service next week. I really feel beet up and I'm bummed about my equipement failures and need to get things working properly. I have spent sooo much money and time in this car to have things where they are today.
My short term goals are to get my 300/2 and HU repaired and working properly, select the right HO alternator and see if and what needs to be done with my vehicle computer to accept the new alternator (I also read in another forum that my computer would need adjustments if a HO alternator was installed). I have a mechanic friend who would do the alterrnator and or pulley adjustments install for me.
After the Alternator I would like to add another 1000/1 and 12W7 which would require another custom tuned enclosure(I wish this stuff was less expensive). Also it sounds like I will need another duplicate Optima battery. Wow I'm also going to have to pull all amps out and reconfigure them with wiring to street wires distribution and ground block. Ok Swez, here I go again getting to far ahead of where I need to be with these changes. I'm going to take things one step at a time and do things as funds and time allow me to. Again all your expertise is greatly appreciated please let me know what you think here.
Demetrios
swez on 02/25/2007 11:47:26
OK, thanks for the recap and yes, you have indeed had more than your fair share of equipment issues.
Would you consider a more efficient woofer swap here? JL subs are great SQL products. But they are not very efficient (86.2 dB @ 1 watt) and also very expensive. Am thinking a pair of 10's will give you about the same cone area as a single 15" woofer. A pair of 12's will be about the same as a single 18" woofer.
You already have a great amp here, (JL 1000/1) and this amp will deliver a solid 1000 watts RMS between 1.5-4.0 ohm loads. So, the woofer voice coil choices are better than many amps can offer.
The idea am suggesting here, is to limit your cash outlay and get more dB's of clean bass SPL with what you already have. A new enclosure will be part of the plan, along with a pair of robust woofers. But no need to add another expensive amp and a less expensive H.O. ALT would be a real plus too.
Think this over a while and then we can look at other options. How does this idea square with you?
Swez
demetman on 02/25/2007 14:51:51
Well Swez, I do appreciate your thought process as a true Audio Consultant professional to help me reach my goals and minimize spending cash. Your proposal is a tough one and will take some thought. I have currently $850.00 invested into the 12W7 and enclosure alone. The SQ that this sub produces is very much to my liking in the tuned enclosure to 32Hz. I guess you could say the SPL is a bit less than I anticipated. I should have gone with the 13W7 which was an option at time of purchase which may or may not have made the difference for me.
What sub would you reccomend for this application? I looked at Alpine SWR-124D subs but they have a sens of 85v/1m. I also looked at Dayton's sub line with better sens ratings but xmax seems a little restricted with 12mm best for the RS (high output) model. Through some ideas at me so I can look at different subs and compare prices. If I was to go this route I would like to maintain quality sound and increase bass spl by utelizing 2 subs. I don't know what I would do with my 12W7 but lets look some options over. Thanks for your input Swez. Talk to you later.
Demetrios
swez on 02/25/2007 16:23:22
Yes, I know you made a big investment on that JL sub, amp and box. But, does doubling this purchase and adding an expensive H.O. ALT really fit the bill you'll have to pay for them?
That's why I am asking to explore alternate options. Yes, I like the Alpine SWR's for daily drivers, but in this case, you'll probably want a more efficient sub paring. (90db SPL@ 1w/1m or higher) Dayton's are OK too, but not where you are going.
Am waiting for a guy who's trying a CDT 12" woofer to provide some constructive feedback on this SQL sub.
http://www.cdtaudio.com/longexcursionsubs.htm
Swez
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