I currently own a 2000 pontiac grand prix gt with a kenwood deck. jl -tr 6x9's in the rear deck, a rockford fosgate punch power 800a2 amp with a RF 1farad capacitor pushing 2 12 inch jl audio w7's. also in the dash is a audio control 3.1 in dash eqa.
system sounds great to everyone, but to me its not the hard hitting "SLAMMING" break the trunk lid kind of bass that i desire. In my old system i had only a punch power 500a2. instead of this 800a2. with 2 RF dvc punch power subs. and the bass was harder. I believe my problem lyes in the subs. maybe the DVC s were better before. my system is not even close to done. so i thought maybe someone could give me some insight on getting more sound quality bass. I want to be in competions like db drag. and spl. what subs should i get to get that massive "need headphones to sit in it" type of bass. and is there anyone in the peoria illinois area that would be willing to help make me a amp rack and custom trunk ect... moneys no prob. thanks for any insight in advance..
Replies (15)
Pontiac_gp_dude on 02/18/2007 20:12:55
i also need ideas for the best amp for my front speakers are not on a amp yet. theyre running off the deck.. i was thinking the jl 300/4 might do me justice. any ideas
cplkittle on 02/18/2007 22:24:01
You have two subs that want 1000+ watts RMS
You have an amplifier that produces 400watts RMS x2 at 2 ohms.
When you had the fosgate subs, they probably were closer to being a good match to the amp than these.
The problem here is not the subs, you have some of the best SPL and SQ drivers on the market. You need more power. I would suggest using a JL 1000/1 for EACH sub. If money really is not the issue here, you have an advantage over most car audio enthusiasts.
If you want to compete seriously and make it past the local competitions, plan on sinking alot of money in to your system, and don't expect 2 12's to get you there. You might get somewhere in the low 150's with 2 12" subs, but it is almost impossible to get much more than that. The proper encosure is equally important.
Is this a do it yourself project, or are you going to take it to a shop to have it done?
swez on 02/19/2007 07:10:09
Agreed... The amping power is holding you back here.
The JL's are 3 ohm subs and wired to this amp, they get about 325-350 watts RMS/sub. The JL's are not the most efficient sub on the block, so it takes a good deal of power to get them up to their potential. As Kit said, a JL 1000/1 per sub (or another amp) that can deliver that kind of power to each sub is what you'll be looking for.
Also, amps in this category of power, will greatly tax a stock electrical system. But this is true, only when one really pushes the limits. A H.O. ALT and perhaps a bank of gel cell batteries would be in order here if you really want to compete in region DB Drags.
As for your mid/highs amping, the 300/4 is a great amp when pushing high efficiency speakers. (>90dB of SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter) The more efficient the speakers, the better the mids/highs can keep up with the strong bass noted.
Are you using ported enclosures that are matched to JL's specifications? If not, consider making or buying same. There are more efficient designs for greater SPL too. Band Pass enclosures are specifically designed for high SPL output and if we can determine the vehicle resonance frequency, that will maximize woofer SPL too. Here, you'll need a well planned enclosure to squeeze every ounce of SPL from the subs used.
Swez
PS Does your car have flip down rear seats or is it a sealed trunk model?
Pontiac_gp_dude on 02/19/2007 17:39:21
Thanks for your comments you already have given me ideas. I was thinking the JL 1000/1 would be a great amp to run on each sub.
At the moment the box is sealed (thats what the shop had said i needed, then the next time i went there they said i should have a ported box.. so im still unsure if i have the right box.
the back seat does come down, and i do wabt a shop to hook this all up and make amp rack ect.. im dying for a custom amp rack. thanks for the suggestions. this is a great forum.
swez on 02/19/2007 18:38:31
Yes sir... we think so too and as you get more inputs on the system of your dreams, don't forget to set aside some pocket change to help support this site. We are here by donantions and if they don't come in, we have a problem Houston...
A ported configureation will give a solid boost in free dB of SPL at the desired tuning frequency you want. Some guys have things set up as a 2 step plan. One is the daily driver and a sealed sub box is great for that. When it's time to go out and DB Drag, then swap over to ported or BandPass for maximum performance.
Amp racks can easily be made on your own if you wish. In most cases, it's as simple as a board or 2 with a series of holes to feed your amp wiring through. They can be carpeted to match your interior or hidden for stealth. If you give an e-mail addy, I have a nice design in my pics that you can look at and see how that might fit.
That RF is also usable for full range speakers in the front and rear. It's just a matter of how one sets it up load wise. Here, one can wire the RF and RR speakers in series and the amp will deliver over 125 watts to the pair. (8 ohm load per channel)
If one wires RF and RR in parallel, that's a net 2 ohms and each channel can deliver over 400 watts to the pair. Some careful gain adjustments can bring the power down to keep your speakers from blowing out. In most cases, 75-100 watts RMS per speaker is plenty of power. It all depends on the brand, speaker size and power handling of same.
Comments?
Swez
cplkittle on 02/19/2007 22:51:39
Man I wish I could get ahold of this one...
Dude, shop around at different shops. If they told you that you needed a sealed box, now they say you need a ported box, all they want is your money. Ditch that shop and start looking around for other that do alot of custom work. Ask to see their custom portfolio (we all have a photo album of our work on display). Find the custom installer that has a style that you like and discuss with him what you want and see what kind of ideas he has. The hardest thing to do here is find someone you trust that can do good work. DO NOT tell them 'I'm not in a hurry' or 'no rush' or 'take your time' It will get put on the back burner for a loooooong time unless the shop has little or no business. Don't rush them, but keep them on it. Ask if you can come by occasionally and either watch or just check out the progress. This will keep them working on it. Depending on the amount you want to put into this system, it could take a couple of weeks to complete. If it is a simple box and amp rack maybe 2 days.
Pontiac_gp_dude on 05/23/2007 17:27:08
My email addy is mrchrispyhtd@hotmail.com if you would still be willing to send me the amp rack pics to look over swez. only thing in my thread i had said wrong is i have the jl w3 not w7. dont know if they make a bunch of difference.
Im wanting to put in 2 15' RF™ dvc subs with a jl audio 1000 watt amp. what would that be good?i will donate to this site cause it has helped . thanks for helping a newbie mfs..
swez on 05/23/2007 18:19:37
Amp rack idea for a Ford F150 Super Crew Cab:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/171942/4
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 05/24/2007 00:15:52
if your in the peoria, IL area have you tried sounds of peoria on glen??? they do custom boxes and etc and are a jl dealer
or if interested in the RF 15`s tey stewart radio in east peoria on camp st. he also sells soundstream infinity and eclipse ans some others hes knows his stuff and does all the work himself
trunkisloud on 05/24/2007 09:29:58
definately a BIG difference in the w3 from the w7. the w3 has a rating of 300w rms....whereas the w7 runs 750w rms...a pretty drastic change in the wattage and spl output here....
swez on 05/24/2007 11:55:33
You can say that with confidence! There are other options too. JL W7's are great, but also very expensive. If you desire other options to get to the destination desired, we can offer other thoughts as well.
Swez
Pontiac_gp_dude on 05/24/2007 16:10:45
that sound of peoria is the shop ive had problems with, they sold me a saled box then next time i go there they tell me i should really have a ported box...and they hooked up my front stage speakers andleft some bare wires in the drivers door, which were hitting metal and making the whole front speakers cut out...I have nt been to stewart radio in a few years guess i might try to go there again.i need a good rf dealer here, used to use marlows in pekin, they closed.
Pontiac_gp_dude on 05/24/2007 16:36:30
my back seat does fold down in the middle .
ok so i need better subs to get harder bass.
sounds like 2 jl 1000/1 is what i need to get that break your trunk kind of bass..
swez on 05/24/2007 17:16:53
Oh yeah, this type of system will not only rattle the car hard, but also put a big bite on your budget too. Each JL 1000/1 will draw between 80 -100 amperes of current at full power. That means a H.O. ALT of 250 - 300 amperes is pretty much a must.
Also, a H.O. battery would be highly suggested as well. Kinetics makes a few very nice H.O. batteries for systems like this. From a guy we know well here, it's an excellent product for high SPL systems like this. Better figure on a CCA rating above 1000 amps. Anything less may not get the job done. (Forget Power Stiffening Caps as they are a waste of time and money)
As for subs to consider, the JL W7 is always a nice choice and each can handle 1000 Wrms. There are cheaper subs out there too. Have a look at this sub makers page. One of our long time CK'ers just bought a 15" Mag D2 for his ride. He has a JL 12W7 ported now, but it's still not enough SPL for his likings. He's going sealed this time with the Mag D2. Here's the link that explains his new sub install... it's a very long post/threads read, but you'll see some interesting options that may cut your costs and efforts.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g5142_1401
Swez
http://www.stereointegrity.com/Magnum12.html
kirchatndftbl on 05/25/2007 00:23:17
stuart radio is good he does good work
ask him about the soundstream T-5`s
http://www.soundstream.com/subwoofers-tarantula.htm
i had the older model T-4`s and they pounded and i was only giving them 1/3 of the power in a box way too small for them
system sounds great to everyone, but to me its not the hard hitting "SLAMMING" break the trunk lid kind of bass that i desire. In my old system i had only a punch power 500a2. instead of this 800a2. with 2 RF dvc punch power subs. and the bass was harder. I believe my problem lyes in the subs. maybe the DVC s were better before. my system is not even close to done. so i thought maybe someone could give me some insight on getting more sound quality bass. I want to be in competions like db drag. and spl. what subs should i get to get that massive "need headphones to sit in it" type of bass. and is there anyone in the peoria illinois area that would be willing to help make me a amp rack and custom trunk ect... moneys no prob. thanks for any insight in advance..
Replies (15)
Pontiac_gp_dude on 02/18/2007 20:12:55
i also need ideas for the best amp for my front speakers are not on a amp yet. theyre running off the deck.. i was thinking the jl 300/4 might do me justice. any ideas
cplkittle on 02/18/2007 22:24:01
You have two subs that want 1000+ watts RMS
You have an amplifier that produces 400watts RMS x2 at 2 ohms.
When you had the fosgate subs, they probably were closer to being a good match to the amp than these.
The problem here is not the subs, you have some of the best SPL and SQ drivers on the market. You need more power. I would suggest using a JL 1000/1 for EACH sub. If money really is not the issue here, you have an advantage over most car audio enthusiasts.
If you want to compete seriously and make it past the local competitions, plan on sinking alot of money in to your system, and don't expect 2 12's to get you there. You might get somewhere in the low 150's with 2 12" subs, but it is almost impossible to get much more than that. The proper encosure is equally important.
Is this a do it yourself project, or are you going to take it to a shop to have it done?
swez on 02/19/2007 07:10:09
Agreed... The amping power is holding you back here.
The JL's are 3 ohm subs and wired to this amp, they get about 325-350 watts RMS/sub. The JL's are not the most efficient sub on the block, so it takes a good deal of power to get them up to their potential. As Kit said, a JL 1000/1 per sub (or another amp) that can deliver that kind of power to each sub is what you'll be looking for.
Also, amps in this category of power, will greatly tax a stock electrical system. But this is true, only when one really pushes the limits. A H.O. ALT and perhaps a bank of gel cell batteries would be in order here if you really want to compete in region DB Drags.
As for your mid/highs amping, the 300/4 is a great amp when pushing high efficiency speakers. (>90dB of SPL @ 1 watt/1 meter) The more efficient the speakers, the better the mids/highs can keep up with the strong bass noted.
Are you using ported enclosures that are matched to JL's specifications? If not, consider making or buying same. There are more efficient designs for greater SPL too. Band Pass enclosures are specifically designed for high SPL output and if we can determine the vehicle resonance frequency, that will maximize woofer SPL too. Here, you'll need a well planned enclosure to squeeze every ounce of SPL from the subs used.
Swez
PS Does your car have flip down rear seats or is it a sealed trunk model?
Pontiac_gp_dude on 02/19/2007 17:39:21
Thanks for your comments you already have given me ideas. I was thinking the JL 1000/1 would be a great amp to run on each sub.
At the moment the box is sealed (thats what the shop had said i needed, then the next time i went there they said i should have a ported box.. so im still unsure if i have the right box.
the back seat does come down, and i do wabt a shop to hook this all up and make amp rack ect.. im dying for a custom amp rack. thanks for the suggestions. this is a great forum.
swez on 02/19/2007 18:38:31
Yes sir... we think so too and as you get more inputs on the system of your dreams, don't forget to set aside some pocket change to help support this site. We are here by donantions and if they don't come in, we have a problem Houston...
A ported configureation will give a solid boost in free dB of SPL at the desired tuning frequency you want. Some guys have things set up as a 2 step plan. One is the daily driver and a sealed sub box is great for that. When it's time to go out and DB Drag, then swap over to ported or BandPass for maximum performance.
Amp racks can easily be made on your own if you wish. In most cases, it's as simple as a board or 2 with a series of holes to feed your amp wiring through. They can be carpeted to match your interior or hidden for stealth. If you give an e-mail addy, I have a nice design in my pics that you can look at and see how that might fit.
That RF is also usable for full range speakers in the front and rear. It's just a matter of how one sets it up load wise. Here, one can wire the RF and RR speakers in series and the amp will deliver over 125 watts to the pair. (8 ohm load per channel)
If one wires RF and RR in parallel, that's a net 2 ohms and each channel can deliver over 400 watts to the pair. Some careful gain adjustments can bring the power down to keep your speakers from blowing out. In most cases, 75-100 watts RMS per speaker is plenty of power. It all depends on the brand, speaker size and power handling of same.
Comments?
Swez
cplkittle on 02/19/2007 22:51:39
Man I wish I could get ahold of this one...
Dude, shop around at different shops. If they told you that you needed a sealed box, now they say you need a ported box, all they want is your money. Ditch that shop and start looking around for other that do alot of custom work. Ask to see their custom portfolio (we all have a photo album of our work on display). Find the custom installer that has a style that you like and discuss with him what you want and see what kind of ideas he has. The hardest thing to do here is find someone you trust that can do good work. DO NOT tell them 'I'm not in a hurry' or 'no rush' or 'take your time' It will get put on the back burner for a loooooong time unless the shop has little or no business. Don't rush them, but keep them on it. Ask if you can come by occasionally and either watch or just check out the progress. This will keep them working on it. Depending on the amount you want to put into this system, it could take a couple of weeks to complete. If it is a simple box and amp rack maybe 2 days.
Pontiac_gp_dude on 05/23/2007 17:27:08
My email addy is mrchrispyhtd@hotmail.com if you would still be willing to send me the amp rack pics to look over swez. only thing in my thread i had said wrong is i have the jl w3 not w7. dont know if they make a bunch of difference.
Im wanting to put in 2 15' RF™ dvc subs with a jl audio 1000 watt amp. what would that be good?i will donate to this site cause it has helped . thanks for helping a newbie mfs..
swez on 05/23/2007 18:19:37
Amp rack idea for a Ford F150 Super Crew Cab:
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/171942/4
Swez
kirchatndftbl on 05/24/2007 00:15:52
if your in the peoria, IL area have you tried sounds of peoria on glen??? they do custom boxes and etc and are a jl dealer
or if interested in the RF 15`s tey stewart radio in east peoria on camp st. he also sells soundstream infinity and eclipse ans some others hes knows his stuff and does all the work himself
trunkisloud on 05/24/2007 09:29:58
definately a BIG difference in the w3 from the w7. the w3 has a rating of 300w rms....whereas the w7 runs 750w rms...a pretty drastic change in the wattage and spl output here....
swez on 05/24/2007 11:55:33
You can say that with confidence! There are other options too. JL W7's are great, but also very expensive. If you desire other options to get to the destination desired, we can offer other thoughts as well.
Swez
Pontiac_gp_dude on 05/24/2007 16:10:45
that sound of peoria is the shop ive had problems with, they sold me a saled box then next time i go there they tell me i should really have a ported box...and they hooked up my front stage speakers andleft some bare wires in the drivers door, which were hitting metal and making the whole front speakers cut out...I have nt been to stewart radio in a few years guess i might try to go there again.i need a good rf dealer here, used to use marlows in pekin, they closed.
Pontiac_gp_dude on 05/24/2007 16:36:30
my back seat does fold down in the middle .
ok so i need better subs to get harder bass.
sounds like 2 jl 1000/1 is what i need to get that break your trunk kind of bass..
swez on 05/24/2007 17:16:53
Oh yeah, this type of system will not only rattle the car hard, but also put a big bite on your budget too. Each JL 1000/1 will draw between 80 -100 amperes of current at full power. That means a H.O. ALT of 250 - 300 amperes is pretty much a must.
Also, a H.O. battery would be highly suggested as well. Kinetics makes a few very nice H.O. batteries for systems like this. From a guy we know well here, it's an excellent product for high SPL systems like this. Better figure on a CCA rating above 1000 amps. Anything less may not get the job done. (Forget Power Stiffening Caps as they are a waste of time and money)
As for subs to consider, the JL W7 is always a nice choice and each can handle 1000 Wrms. There are cheaper subs out there too. Have a look at this sub makers page. One of our long time CK'ers just bought a 15" Mag D2 for his ride. He has a JL 12W7 ported now, but it's still not enough SPL for his likings. He's going sealed this time with the Mag D2. Here's the link that explains his new sub install... it's a very long post/threads read, but you'll see some interesting options that may cut your costs and efforts.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?g5142_1401
Swez
http://www.stereointegrity.com/Magnum12.html
kirchatndftbl on 05/25/2007 00:23:17
stuart radio is good he does good work
ask him about the soundstream T-5`s
http://www.soundstream.com/subwoofers-tarantula.htm
i had the older model T-4`s and they pounded and i was only giving them 1/3 of the power in a box way too small for them
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