Hello guys, I have a couple of questions regarding bass responce output for my specific system. I am currently running a 12w7 in a tuned enclosure at 32Hz, powered by a Jl 1000/1.
First off I have been getting different results after setting the voltage input sensativity from a 50Hz test tone from a few different Bass Mekanik cds. Each cd seems to yeild a different output from the amp to the sub.(bass responce varies after setting sensativity from a different cd).
After reading a past post on Hu configurations (DMX 1-4 and comp etc.) I decided to recalibrate the input voltage on the 1000/1 according to DMX on my Pioneer DEH-7800MP enabled.
I am now contemplating adding another 12w7 to my system in a tuned enclosure housing both subs with seperate air space. I believe this can be done safely without over working my amp at a 1.5 net load. What increase in DBs would you guys estimate achieving adding another 12w7? This would obviously become a hefty hit to the wallet and I would like your opinions to see if the additional output would be substancial enough to out way the cost of an additional sub and custom enclosure.
I am not at all worried about having the highs to keep up with the additional SPL due to a set of very powerful component speakers I have in the front doors. Thanks for all opinions.
Demetrios
Replies (9)
swez on 01/12/2007 19:11:05
It would not really help you gain more SPL by adding a 2nd W7. This amp puts out the same RMS wattage at 1.5 ohms as 3.0 ohms. It really more a matter of gain settings on the amp, where you set the LPF and a transfer function of this Dodge Magnum vehicle.
If you want more bass presents here, the remote bass control feature that you can get for your JL 1000/1, will probably be your best bet. Also, keep in mind that you added a fair amount of Dynamat. This tends to absorb bass frequencies when using several layers in the rear hatch area.
Glad to hear your mid/highs are adequate and keep up with the bass engine.
Swez
demetman on 01/14/2007 13:19:43
Swez, how's everything going? Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you would take notice to this post. I have a couple of issues to address at this time. I have been contemplating adding another 12w7 to the mix for stronger bass. I have been playing around with my crossover setting options and found the +3db tweeter position brings a world of life, brightness and detail to the front stage.
I feel I could use a 3-6db increase in bass and thought adding another 12w7 would easily allow me to get their. For the most part the single 12w7 does the job, but when I really crave the dynamic bass I fall just short. Maybe I should have gone with the 13w7, I don't know. Wouldn't the air displacement of a second sub add up to a potential 6db increase in bass responce? I do realize I am losinga tremendous amount of bass due to over dampening of the trunk area of my vehicle, but the bass is super clean, noise and rattle free.
The other issue I'm having is a hissing static noise from my tweater. I strongly believe this is an amp channel issue.(300/2) It started when I originally wired the comps and continued after I changed to a bi-wire configuration. After switching wires at amp terminals the opposite tweater now hisses. The hissing static is not always present, it seems to happen most whenthe car is first started. What are your thoughs here Swez? The amp is under warranty until 3/22/07.
Thanks
Demetrios
swez on 01/14/2007 21:10:59
Adding a 2nd sub alone will not get you more bass unless you added another 1000/1 to power it. That's a lot of $$$ for +3dB more bass. Adding the remote control that is offered by JL would help a lot though. Here, you can kick up the bass a few dB as you switch from one CD to a weaker one. This is low cost and should net several extra dB of output from the sub, when you want it.
Another option I have heard many speak well of, is the PG Bass Cube. It's a parametric EQ for bass engines and has a remote for on the fly boost/cut. Or, try tweaking your JL Parametric Bass circuit and use a little bass boost.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTBASSCUBE
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/tutorials/Parametric_EQ/Parametric_EQ.pdf
Tweeter hiss that goes away can mean a few things:
1. HU to amp grounding via RCA's needs help
2. Amp is a tad noisy until it warms up
3. Tweeter sensitivity is a bit high at +3dB selection switch
A simple thing to try first, is to remove your HU and run a small gage wire from a HU chassis casing screw, to your 300/2 RCA grounding claws. If the noise goes away, the problem is resolved. Do this step w/o hiding wire until you know it has the desired results. If yes, make it permanent and hide the new wire. (#18 gage is fine)
How's the Stripper Bass fishing there this season? It's been crazy warm here this winter so far in MI and we are just now moving into sub freezing temperatures. Have been contemplating a day trip to see if i can find any Browns or Steelhead cruising the rivers near Lake Michigan or Lake Huron.
Am also rebuilding an older flyrod and converting this blank to a 7.0' Medium/fast spinning rod. Had to remove the handle, reel seat and all guides. It was an 8.0' blank, so I had to chop off 6 inches off the butt and tip too. This changes not only the length of the blank, but also the tip action is stiffer now. (I prefer faster action rods)
Will be using single foot, ceramic guides for light weight and strength, but have to totally refinish the rod blank with a maroon colored finish to blank and then epoxy coating. Will be using black guide wraps and gold accents. This should look pretty nice when done and ready for the Walleye run in Mar/April. It should be a real step up for bass fishing this summer too. ;-)
Swez
PS On a sad note, Mom passed away on 12/12/06 and things have not been so swift since. Pops and I are planning a short trip to Florida to pick up some odds and ends there and meet with a realtor to sell the place too. (Early Feb)
Mom was almost 81, lived a vibrant life and passed without any real pain.(Heart failure) It was swift and totally unexpected. Frankly, that's the way I'd like to go many moons from now. The good news here, had 10 very good years to spend with her. We were like best friends as adults. It does not get much better than that!!!
demetman on 01/15/2007 17:28:59
Swez, my condolences for the loss of your mother. I'm terribly sorry to hear of the news. It must be very difficult for you at this time. At least she had a full life at 80 years old and she past peacefully. I'm sure you have been very busy comforting your father during this time of need.
As for the weather lately, what's going on with mother nature? It has been 60-70 degrees for the last month here in Jersey. As for the fishing, unfortunately the season for Stripped Bass is closed for fishing in the bay, but still legal to fish in the ocean. My buddy just called me from the ocean yesterday(I guess he needed to pie me) bragging of the excellant fishing he was in to. They were bailing LARGE Stripers all over 40" and all in the 20-30lb class. The action was furious and they boated over 25 fish leaving them still biting. Current ocean temps are at a stable 50 degrees. If the water temp holds the fish may never leave!
Christine and I are headed to Barbados Jan 23-30 for some warm tropical weather before the restaurant re-opens on Feb 2. Well Dave it was nice to hear from you and I wish you and your family the best. I will talk to you after I hook up my RBC-1 bass control and fool around with my gain settings.
Demetrios
swez on 01/15/2007 19:02:33
Dem,
Sounds like a nice time going to Barbados... never been there yet, but would I fit in your luggage as a stow-a-way? (6'3"; 225 lbs?) GRIN
Yes, do check out that remote and try tweaking your Bass EQ feature a bit. This combination may turn out to be all that is needed. I cannot imagine this bass rig not being an "ear splittin, louden boomin, schmang pazang, shake your leg and a back massager too"!!! hehe
Thanks for the kind words about Mom. Pops and I are settling in to a new routine now and have been so busy with details, we both prefer it that way. It kinda takes a little of the sting away, but I feel Pops pain. They were only married about 6 years and had many wonderful plans together. He has the deepest sense of loss right now as he lost his life partner. That is hard....
Back to work soon huh? Peachy...
Swez
P0werLifter on 01/16/2007 18:54:37
Adding another duB 7 would give you another 3dB if you had the correct power given to it.
However with only one 1000/1 your not really going to get much louder since you will be splitting the same power between both woofers. The 1000/1 is not like other amplifiers in the sense that it gives the same output regardless of the Ohms given to it. If it were a different amplifier for example an Orion 2500d I'd say go for it since it produces more power at 1ohm.
In the end you need to think about the bottom line. Is spending another 700 on a woofer to try and give me an extra 3dB going to be a good return on my investment. The answer is no in my opinion unless you are going shell out the cash for another amplifier, then spend the required money to upgrade your alt, and upgrade / add batteries.
The old saying for amplifiers "it takes power to make power" goes along with output on subs. While enclosures have the majority of the effect on the overall performance on the subs performance it also comes down to power.
I would hold off on the other sub for now and I'd focus in on the current enclosure's specs or try a bass enchancer like the BassCube like dave reccomended.
Also look at the Audio Control Epicenter or some of their other products. I have used the Epic-160 and was pleased with its performance at enchancing the lower frequencies.
-J
swez on 01/16/2007 22:53:22
Thanks Jason... I was also thinking the Epicenter 160 as an option, but forgot the product features.
Swez
demetman on 01/17/2007 00:13:57
Thanks for the reply guys. After some thought I realize adding another sub, enclosure, additional 1000/1, and electrical upgrades would set me back $1800 easy. There are more important things to do with $1800 right know so I'll stick with what I currently have.
I'M sure with some tweaking and the installation of the remote bass control for the 1000/1 I can optimize output from my sub system. I'm not certain but I believe at high volume there may be a small amount of port noise which may have fooled my ears into thinking my amp may be clipping. This is why I have made several gain adjustments to protect my gear. I know there is not much you guys can do for me without hearing for yourself.
Today I added 3db bass boost to the 1000/1 and found bass responce to increase overall but sound degrated at higher volumes. After the many hours of tweaking and gain adjustments thus far, I believe the the best sound has been achieved from max unclipped volts(54.7V) and bass EQ on amp defeated.
Demetrios
I
cecilio87 on 01/22/2007 17:27:03
Hey how is everyone doing? I know this is kind of late, but if you really want to add DBs for a real cheap price and do it easily Audio Control is the way to go. I recently purchased an Epicenter Concert Series and i installed the remote bass knob, and ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW. What the epicenter does is it restores lost bass notes through audio harmonics. in other words when you buy a music cd, during the burning process they cut off certain bass frequencies to not damage your subs or speakers... But this thing can restore those really low freqs and make your car rumble and move side to side... literally...like on the bass knob i mostly have it turned down while listening to rap, because i dont know what settings to use, so sometimes it makes the bass notes sound off and not with the highs... I don't know how to modify the sweep or the wide feature. so i just have them at 50... but on R&B songs like
Nobody by Keith Sweat when the remote bass knob is at zero you can hear some bass, but there really is nothing there... when i turn it up about 1/4th, it hits SOOOO DEEP and impresses everyone... it hits much harder than some rap songs. for now thats all i have to say unless i get some feedback
First off I have been getting different results after setting the voltage input sensativity from a 50Hz test tone from a few different Bass Mekanik cds. Each cd seems to yeild a different output from the amp to the sub.(bass responce varies after setting sensativity from a different cd).
After reading a past post on Hu configurations (DMX 1-4 and comp etc.) I decided to recalibrate the input voltage on the 1000/1 according to DMX on my Pioneer DEH-7800MP enabled.
I am now contemplating adding another 12w7 to my system in a tuned enclosure housing both subs with seperate air space. I believe this can be done safely without over working my amp at a 1.5 net load. What increase in DBs would you guys estimate achieving adding another 12w7? This would obviously become a hefty hit to the wallet and I would like your opinions to see if the additional output would be substancial enough to out way the cost of an additional sub and custom enclosure.
I am not at all worried about having the highs to keep up with the additional SPL due to a set of very powerful component speakers I have in the front doors. Thanks for all opinions.
Demetrios
Replies (9)
swez on 01/12/2007 19:11:05
It would not really help you gain more SPL by adding a 2nd W7. This amp puts out the same RMS wattage at 1.5 ohms as 3.0 ohms. It really more a matter of gain settings on the amp, where you set the LPF and a transfer function of this Dodge Magnum vehicle.
If you want more bass presents here, the remote bass control feature that you can get for your JL 1000/1, will probably be your best bet. Also, keep in mind that you added a fair amount of Dynamat. This tends to absorb bass frequencies when using several layers in the rear hatch area.
Glad to hear your mid/highs are adequate and keep up with the bass engine.
Swez
demetman on 01/14/2007 13:19:43
Swez, how's everything going? Thanks for the reply, I was hoping you would take notice to this post. I have a couple of issues to address at this time. I have been contemplating adding another 12w7 to the mix for stronger bass. I have been playing around with my crossover setting options and found the +3db tweeter position brings a world of life, brightness and detail to the front stage.
I feel I could use a 3-6db increase in bass and thought adding another 12w7 would easily allow me to get their. For the most part the single 12w7 does the job, but when I really crave the dynamic bass I fall just short. Maybe I should have gone with the 13w7, I don't know. Wouldn't the air displacement of a second sub add up to a potential 6db increase in bass responce? I do realize I am losinga tremendous amount of bass due to over dampening of the trunk area of my vehicle, but the bass is super clean, noise and rattle free.
The other issue I'm having is a hissing static noise from my tweater. I strongly believe this is an amp channel issue.(300/2) It started when I originally wired the comps and continued after I changed to a bi-wire configuration. After switching wires at amp terminals the opposite tweater now hisses. The hissing static is not always present, it seems to happen most whenthe car is first started. What are your thoughs here Swez? The amp is under warranty until 3/22/07.
Thanks
Demetrios
swez on 01/14/2007 21:10:59
Adding a 2nd sub alone will not get you more bass unless you added another 1000/1 to power it. That's a lot of $$$ for +3dB more bass. Adding the remote control that is offered by JL would help a lot though. Here, you can kick up the bass a few dB as you switch from one CD to a weaker one. This is low cost and should net several extra dB of output from the sub, when you want it.
Another option I have heard many speak well of, is the PG Bass Cube. It's a parametric EQ for bass engines and has a remote for on the fly boost/cut. Or, try tweaking your JL Parametric Bass circuit and use a little bass boost.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/PHOTBASSCUBE
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/tutorials/Parametric_EQ/Parametric_EQ.pdf
Tweeter hiss that goes away can mean a few things:
1. HU to amp grounding via RCA's needs help
2. Amp is a tad noisy until it warms up
3. Tweeter sensitivity is a bit high at +3dB selection switch
A simple thing to try first, is to remove your HU and run a small gage wire from a HU chassis casing screw, to your 300/2 RCA grounding claws. If the noise goes away, the problem is resolved. Do this step w/o hiding wire until you know it has the desired results. If yes, make it permanent and hide the new wire. (#18 gage is fine)
How's the Stripper Bass fishing there this season? It's been crazy warm here this winter so far in MI and we are just now moving into sub freezing temperatures. Have been contemplating a day trip to see if i can find any Browns or Steelhead cruising the rivers near Lake Michigan or Lake Huron.
Am also rebuilding an older flyrod and converting this blank to a 7.0' Medium/fast spinning rod. Had to remove the handle, reel seat and all guides. It was an 8.0' blank, so I had to chop off 6 inches off the butt and tip too. This changes not only the length of the blank, but also the tip action is stiffer now. (I prefer faster action rods)
Will be using single foot, ceramic guides for light weight and strength, but have to totally refinish the rod blank with a maroon colored finish to blank and then epoxy coating. Will be using black guide wraps and gold accents. This should look pretty nice when done and ready for the Walleye run in Mar/April. It should be a real step up for bass fishing this summer too. ;-)
Swez
PS On a sad note, Mom passed away on 12/12/06 and things have not been so swift since. Pops and I are planning a short trip to Florida to pick up some odds and ends there and meet with a realtor to sell the place too. (Early Feb)
Mom was almost 81, lived a vibrant life and passed without any real pain.(Heart failure) It was swift and totally unexpected. Frankly, that's the way I'd like to go many moons from now. The good news here, had 10 very good years to spend with her. We were like best friends as adults. It does not get much better than that!!!
demetman on 01/15/2007 17:28:59
Swez, my condolences for the loss of your mother. I'm terribly sorry to hear of the news. It must be very difficult for you at this time. At least she had a full life at 80 years old and she past peacefully. I'm sure you have been very busy comforting your father during this time of need.
As for the weather lately, what's going on with mother nature? It has been 60-70 degrees for the last month here in Jersey. As for the fishing, unfortunately the season for Stripped Bass is closed for fishing in the bay, but still legal to fish in the ocean. My buddy just called me from the ocean yesterday(I guess he needed to pie me) bragging of the excellant fishing he was in to. They were bailing LARGE Stripers all over 40" and all in the 20-30lb class. The action was furious and they boated over 25 fish leaving them still biting. Current ocean temps are at a stable 50 degrees. If the water temp holds the fish may never leave!
Christine and I are headed to Barbados Jan 23-30 for some warm tropical weather before the restaurant re-opens on Feb 2. Well Dave it was nice to hear from you and I wish you and your family the best. I will talk to you after I hook up my RBC-1 bass control and fool around with my gain settings.
Demetrios
swez on 01/15/2007 19:02:33
Dem,
Sounds like a nice time going to Barbados... never been there yet, but would I fit in your luggage as a stow-a-way? (6'3"; 225 lbs?) GRIN
Yes, do check out that remote and try tweaking your Bass EQ feature a bit. This combination may turn out to be all that is needed. I cannot imagine this bass rig not being an "ear splittin, louden boomin, schmang pazang, shake your leg and a back massager too"!!! hehe
Thanks for the kind words about Mom. Pops and I are settling in to a new routine now and have been so busy with details, we both prefer it that way. It kinda takes a little of the sting away, but I feel Pops pain. They were only married about 6 years and had many wonderful plans together. He has the deepest sense of loss right now as he lost his life partner. That is hard....
Back to work soon huh? Peachy...
Swez
P0werLifter on 01/16/2007 18:54:37
Adding another duB 7 would give you another 3dB if you had the correct power given to it.
However with only one 1000/1 your not really going to get much louder since you will be splitting the same power between both woofers. The 1000/1 is not like other amplifiers in the sense that it gives the same output regardless of the Ohms given to it. If it were a different amplifier for example an Orion 2500d I'd say go for it since it produces more power at 1ohm.
In the end you need to think about the bottom line. Is spending another 700 on a woofer to try and give me an extra 3dB going to be a good return on my investment. The answer is no in my opinion unless you are going shell out the cash for another amplifier, then spend the required money to upgrade your alt, and upgrade / add batteries.
The old saying for amplifiers "it takes power to make power" goes along with output on subs. While enclosures have the majority of the effect on the overall performance on the subs performance it also comes down to power.
I would hold off on the other sub for now and I'd focus in on the current enclosure's specs or try a bass enchancer like the BassCube like dave reccomended.
Also look at the Audio Control Epicenter or some of their other products. I have used the Epic-160 and was pleased with its performance at enchancing the lower frequencies.
-J
swez on 01/16/2007 22:53:22
Thanks Jason... I was also thinking the Epicenter 160 as an option, but forgot the product features.
Swez
demetman on 01/17/2007 00:13:57
Thanks for the reply guys. After some thought I realize adding another sub, enclosure, additional 1000/1, and electrical upgrades would set me back $1800 easy. There are more important things to do with $1800 right know so I'll stick with what I currently have.
I'M sure with some tweaking and the installation of the remote bass control for the 1000/1 I can optimize output from my sub system. I'm not certain but I believe at high volume there may be a small amount of port noise which may have fooled my ears into thinking my amp may be clipping. This is why I have made several gain adjustments to protect my gear. I know there is not much you guys can do for me without hearing for yourself.
Today I added 3db bass boost to the 1000/1 and found bass responce to increase overall but sound degrated at higher volumes. After the many hours of tweaking and gain adjustments thus far, I believe the the best sound has been achieved from max unclipped volts(54.7V) and bass EQ on amp defeated.
Demetrios
I
cecilio87 on 01/22/2007 17:27:03
Hey how is everyone doing? I know this is kind of late, but if you really want to add DBs for a real cheap price and do it easily Audio Control is the way to go. I recently purchased an Epicenter Concert Series and i installed the remote bass knob, and ALL I CAN SAY IS WOW. What the epicenter does is it restores lost bass notes through audio harmonics. in other words when you buy a music cd, during the burning process they cut off certain bass frequencies to not damage your subs or speakers... But this thing can restore those really low freqs and make your car rumble and move side to side... literally...like on the bass knob i mostly have it turned down while listening to rap, because i dont know what settings to use, so sometimes it makes the bass notes sound off and not with the highs... I don't know how to modify the sweep or the wide feature. so i just have them at 50... but on R&B songs like
Nobody by Keith Sweat when the remote bass knob is at zero you can hear some bass, but there really is nothing there... when i turn it up about 1/4th, it hits SOOOO DEEP and impresses everyone... it hits much harder than some rap songs. for now thats all i have to say unless i get some feedback
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