As the topic states, Im new to car audio. Ive lurked around these forums a bit and read up and what I could, learned quite a bit might I add, thank you all.
Recently, Ive been using the new information to piece together something. In the past, a friend had a VW GTi show car, and was sponsored by MB Quart for auido. Ive heard his system, and really want to replicate it. So, I would go the way of MB Quart to do so for component speakers. Ive heard alot of talk about JL amps, and JL subs, 10w7 to be exact. Again, the way I would like to move. Problem is, when it comes to how many amps and / or what, Im not really sure on. Also, Mid bases. In a 6 speaker system, I would assume that the 2 tweeters and speakers reside in the front. the mid bass behind, and a sub in the back? Im also not sure on the QSC 216, as RMS is 150. Is that per speaker and tweeter? or combined total? As in, the total wattage is only 300(75 x2 speaker 75 x2 tweeter), or is it 600 (150x2 speaker, 150x2 tweeter). Heres what I pieced so far:
MB Quart QSC 216 Component System
MB Quart QSC 164 Mid Bass
JL Audio 10w7
JL 300/2 2 Channel Amp x2 (?)
JL Audio 500/1 Mono Amp
The HU is a Boss Audio BV9250 and Ive considered a capacitor @ about 2 Farad, in hopes to prevent dimming. Again, Im new to this, and any input at all is welcomed. Just for those who might need to know, Its a Mazda 3 S Hatchback, and Im looking to spend about 1-2$ per watt. As is now, how Ive calculated from what ive found, its 1.25$ per watt RMS. Id also like some help on choosing the type of enclosure. Id like this to be about 75% sound accuracy and 25% SQL. Im assuming that would mean I port the sub and tune it.
Thanks for any help in advance, and feel free to add in any ideas or additional components I may require. =D
Replies (10)
swez on 11/29/2006 14:28:44
Very nice choices on speakers, sub and amps here so far.
Consider the JL 450/4 amp here. It has 150 x 2 (RMS) for the front channels and 75 x 2 (RMS) for the rear speakers. This will not only save money, but also save amp mounting space too.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=255
As for the bass engine part of your package, very good choices on amp and sub. If you like plenty of deep bass and have the extra space for a larger enclosure, go ported and tuned to about 30-35 Hz.
If space is a big issue for the sub enclosure, consider going sealed. Sealed boxes do a nice job in most cars and tend to be more SQ friendly and less low end bump. One can compensate for low end roll offs with the Parametric EQ feature in the 500/1 amp.
Speakers are generally rated in RMS/Peak numbers. The RMS numbers tell us how much power they can take on a continous basis. The Peak number is power handling for very brief periods of time.
When using Component speakers, the power ratings are listed as when using the Crossover, midrange and tweeter as a package. In general terms, the midrange speaker gets about 60-75% of the RMS power and the tweeter gets the rest. (Tweeters don't need much power to get loud as they are very efficient and do not have to produce low frequencies)
The Boss Audio DVD player does not have dedicated sub outputs. However, one can use the pass through RCA's in the JL amps to feed RCA signal info to full range or sub amp inputs. Here, it is good to use the 500/1 Remote Bass controller so you can adjust bass levels as desired.
Comments?
Swez
Orgullo on 11/29/2006 15:04:03
I dont understand the use of the 450/4. I was under the impression the rear (midbass) was rated at 80-150 RMS. Just outside that Amps rear channel range? Any enlightenment on that would be great if possible. Although when I give it more thought it does make more sense that way. As for the HU, does having a Bass output improve things or just make things easier when wiring? When it comes down to the HU, Im actually still looking around. That HU just happened to catch my eye with the touch screen.
Thank alot as well on the explanation of the tweeter and midranges.
Aside from everything else, is this all I would need short of cabling for instalation?
swez on 11/29/2006 15:37:17
The rear channels of the 450/4 are well matched in power as the rear speakers tend to be louder than front speakers and require less power to blend F/R stages. (This is due to location of most rear speakers up and in the parcel shelf)
As for rear channel power and speakers used, most SQ guys consider the rear speaker as fill. They are not the dominant part of the midbass/midrange and high. However, 75 watts RMS is indeed a good deal of power here. Why pay for power that is not really needed. (Ie: a pair of 300/2 amps)
As for the HU having or not having a sub channel output, that's pretty much a matter of preferences. Some like having control of the sub amp independent of F/R channels. (Via HU menus) However, you can still get that finger tip control with the 500/1 remote bass controller.
Boss Audio is not considered as a Top Drawer player by most who know the game. Will it work? Yes... but if you demand high performance that branded names offer, that comes in the features and price tag too.
You may find the electrical system in this car to be a bit light on reserve power for both amps. (MAinly at high SPL levels) Using a large gage power feed line (1/0) and perhaps upgrading the BAT to a high CCA rated version often helps more than any Cap will ever do.
Other than that, standard install components are about all that is needed. Yes, you will need a fused Distribution Block to break out from the 1/0 wiring to each amp. Here, you'll want 1/0 wire into the D-block and dual #4 wires out.
Grounding the amps w/ #4 wire is recommended too. You can hardwire direct to a good grounding point or use a grounding D-block here too. Either is totally acceptable.
As for wiring and hardware, look at Streetwires or Knuknoceptz for solutions. Both are high quality and fairly priced. Have a look:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/
Swez
Orgullo on 11/29/2006 16:00:44
A few more questions and I think I can set this in motion. Whats BAT(Battery?)? CCA? Also the rears are mounted inside the door panel. Will that matter much? Ive got alot of cabin space as my trunk is open (Hatchback and all..) Ive been told by friends in the hobby to get a 'Yellow Cap' Battery, havent looked into that yet. As for a HU, anything you might recomend to look at? Im stuck using 2 DIN though.
I think that about does it (for now). Youve been a great help Swez.
cplkittle on 11/29/2006 16:10:31
BAT is battery
CCA is cold cranking amps, this is basically how much juice the battery will hold.
An Optima Yellow Top battery is a good choice.
You are not 'stuck' using a 2din radio though, there are mounting kits usually under $20 that will fit into the 2 din slot and give you a place for the radio and a storage pocket to take up the rest of the space. Wal-Mart carries some of these, or they can be purchased at any car audio shop.
swez on 11/29/2006 17:58:17
Thanks Kit... filled in a few gaps.
Rear door speakers are also behind the driver and front passenger seats. They tend to fill in nicely but do not dominate as much as rear deck speakers do. However, some careful blending (fade) of front and rear gains on the amp mentioned, will give very good results too.
You also have an option for Midbass only or full range Coaxials in back. That is more a preference to the user and totally up to you.
About Optima Yellow Tops, these are gel cell battery type and Yellow is actually a Deep Cycle design. It not only has the reserve power to start the vehicle in cold winter conditions, but it can take >300 deep discharges w/o damage. That is one feature a typical lead-acid battery can never match. With even new lead-acid batteries, just a few deep discharges are often enough to kill them.
Swez
Orgullo on 11/29/2006 22:21:06
In the event I were to not use the midbass (the QSC 164 up there) But instead opt for the full range, Wouldnt that basically mean I would go for 2 QSC 216's? In which case, neither amps would cut it correct? Or just leave the back at 75 watt RMS and fade it as you said? Or are the midbass capable of acting as a midrange, even though their frequency response is lower than the full range speakers?
UKinstaller on 11/29/2006 22:47:33
plan on spending about $100 for the dash kit for your vehicle. it has integrated climate controls that you have to replace. but, i must ask, why would you put a Boss HU in your car?? factory would be better, more dependent, and look better. the dash kits don't look good in your car unless you get a bad a$$ double din screen, like an alpine or pioneer.
do you have the Bose system?? if so, needs to be bypassed.
also, factory speakers are 5x7 all the way around. if you want to do some nice components, plan on building some speaker provisions to get them to mount properly. very easy to do.
-UK
Orgullo on 11/30/2006 02:44:25
Negative on the bose system. Main reason behind replacing my HU is that, although it currently is a 6 disc in dash changer, is wont play MP3s or any other format aside from the typical CD audio. Not only that, but theres no 'stop' or 'pause', its really annoying. Ive also already considered mounting the speakers. the actual hole in the doors is 6.25" all around. Beneath the plastic the speaker resides at a 45* angle, part of the speaker itself is hidden. The grill on the outside has a diameter of 6.5", and including that plastic ring around the grill its 7". Im pretty sure 6.5" speakers would fit with minimal moding. Correct me if im wrong though. And suppose I do have to build something, what materials would I use to build that? Fabricating things isnt my specialty.
And thank you on the HU tip, Ill take a gander at those. As for the Mounting, I was half planning on messing with the dash kit, as in cutting it to retain as much of the original as possible, and only modifying the upper portion containing the 2 DIN HU. And I am planning on a 6.5-7" LCD HU.
Victor on 11/30/2006 03:06:36
Alpine, Blaupunkt, Clarion, Eclipse, Panasonic and Pioneer all have very good 2Din units.
Recently, Ive been using the new information to piece together something. In the past, a friend had a VW GTi show car, and was sponsored by MB Quart for auido. Ive heard his system, and really want to replicate it. So, I would go the way of MB Quart to do so for component speakers. Ive heard alot of talk about JL amps, and JL subs, 10w7 to be exact. Again, the way I would like to move. Problem is, when it comes to how many amps and / or what, Im not really sure on. Also, Mid bases. In a 6 speaker system, I would assume that the 2 tweeters and speakers reside in the front. the mid bass behind, and a sub in the back? Im also not sure on the QSC 216, as RMS is 150. Is that per speaker and tweeter? or combined total? As in, the total wattage is only 300(75 x2 speaker 75 x2 tweeter), or is it 600 (150x2 speaker, 150x2 tweeter). Heres what I pieced so far:
MB Quart QSC 216 Component System
MB Quart QSC 164 Mid Bass
JL Audio 10w7
JL 300/2 2 Channel Amp x2 (?)
JL Audio 500/1 Mono Amp
The HU is a Boss Audio BV9250 and Ive considered a capacitor @ about 2 Farad, in hopes to prevent dimming. Again, Im new to this, and any input at all is welcomed. Just for those who might need to know, Its a Mazda 3 S Hatchback, and Im looking to spend about 1-2$ per watt. As is now, how Ive calculated from what ive found, its 1.25$ per watt RMS. Id also like some help on choosing the type of enclosure. Id like this to be about 75% sound accuracy and 25% SQL. Im assuming that would mean I port the sub and tune it.
Thanks for any help in advance, and feel free to add in any ideas or additional components I may require. =D
Replies (10)
swez on 11/29/2006 14:28:44
Very nice choices on speakers, sub and amps here so far.
Consider the JL 450/4 amp here. It has 150 x 2 (RMS) for the front channels and 75 x 2 (RMS) for the rear speakers. This will not only save money, but also save amp mounting space too.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_amps.php?amp_id=255
As for the bass engine part of your package, very good choices on amp and sub. If you like plenty of deep bass and have the extra space for a larger enclosure, go ported and tuned to about 30-35 Hz.
If space is a big issue for the sub enclosure, consider going sealed. Sealed boxes do a nice job in most cars and tend to be more SQ friendly and less low end bump. One can compensate for low end roll offs with the Parametric EQ feature in the 500/1 amp.
Speakers are generally rated in RMS/Peak numbers. The RMS numbers tell us how much power they can take on a continous basis. The Peak number is power handling for very brief periods of time.
When using Component speakers, the power ratings are listed as when using the Crossover, midrange and tweeter as a package. In general terms, the midrange speaker gets about 60-75% of the RMS power and the tweeter gets the rest. (Tweeters don't need much power to get loud as they are very efficient and do not have to produce low frequencies)
The Boss Audio DVD player does not have dedicated sub outputs. However, one can use the pass through RCA's in the JL amps to feed RCA signal info to full range or sub amp inputs. Here, it is good to use the 500/1 Remote Bass controller so you can adjust bass levels as desired.
Comments?
Swez
Orgullo on 11/29/2006 15:04:03
I dont understand the use of the 450/4. I was under the impression the rear (midbass) was rated at 80-150 RMS. Just outside that Amps rear channel range? Any enlightenment on that would be great if possible. Although when I give it more thought it does make more sense that way. As for the HU, does having a Bass output improve things or just make things easier when wiring? When it comes down to the HU, Im actually still looking around. That HU just happened to catch my eye with the touch screen.
Thank alot as well on the explanation of the tweeter and midranges.
Aside from everything else, is this all I would need short of cabling for instalation?
swez on 11/29/2006 15:37:17
The rear channels of the 450/4 are well matched in power as the rear speakers tend to be louder than front speakers and require less power to blend F/R stages. (This is due to location of most rear speakers up and in the parcel shelf)
As for rear channel power and speakers used, most SQ guys consider the rear speaker as fill. They are not the dominant part of the midbass/midrange and high. However, 75 watts RMS is indeed a good deal of power here. Why pay for power that is not really needed. (Ie: a pair of 300/2 amps)
As for the HU having or not having a sub channel output, that's pretty much a matter of preferences. Some like having control of the sub amp independent of F/R channels. (Via HU menus) However, you can still get that finger tip control with the 500/1 remote bass controller.
Boss Audio is not considered as a Top Drawer player by most who know the game. Will it work? Yes... but if you demand high performance that branded names offer, that comes in the features and price tag too.
You may find the electrical system in this car to be a bit light on reserve power for both amps. (MAinly at high SPL levels) Using a large gage power feed line (1/0) and perhaps upgrading the BAT to a high CCA rated version often helps more than any Cap will ever do.
Other than that, standard install components are about all that is needed. Yes, you will need a fused Distribution Block to break out from the 1/0 wiring to each amp. Here, you'll want 1/0 wire into the D-block and dual #4 wires out.
Grounding the amps w/ #4 wire is recommended too. You can hardwire direct to a good grounding point or use a grounding D-block here too. Either is totally acceptable.
As for wiring and hardware, look at Streetwires or Knuknoceptz for solutions. Both are high quality and fairly priced. Have a look:
http://www.knukonceptz.com/
Swez
Orgullo on 11/29/2006 16:00:44
A few more questions and I think I can set this in motion. Whats BAT(Battery?)? CCA? Also the rears are mounted inside the door panel. Will that matter much? Ive got alot of cabin space as my trunk is open (Hatchback and all..) Ive been told by friends in the hobby to get a 'Yellow Cap' Battery, havent looked into that yet. As for a HU, anything you might recomend to look at? Im stuck using 2 DIN though.
I think that about does it (for now). Youve been a great help Swez.
cplkittle on 11/29/2006 16:10:31
BAT is battery
CCA is cold cranking amps, this is basically how much juice the battery will hold.
An Optima Yellow Top battery is a good choice.
You are not 'stuck' using a 2din radio though, there are mounting kits usually under $20 that will fit into the 2 din slot and give you a place for the radio and a storage pocket to take up the rest of the space. Wal-Mart carries some of these, or they can be purchased at any car audio shop.
swez on 11/29/2006 17:58:17
Thanks Kit... filled in a few gaps.
Rear door speakers are also behind the driver and front passenger seats. They tend to fill in nicely but do not dominate as much as rear deck speakers do. However, some careful blending (fade) of front and rear gains on the amp mentioned, will give very good results too.
You also have an option for Midbass only or full range Coaxials in back. That is more a preference to the user and totally up to you.
About Optima Yellow Tops, these are gel cell battery type and Yellow is actually a Deep Cycle design. It not only has the reserve power to start the vehicle in cold winter conditions, but it can take >300 deep discharges w/o damage. That is one feature a typical lead-acid battery can never match. With even new lead-acid batteries, just a few deep discharges are often enough to kill them.
Swez
Orgullo on 11/29/2006 22:21:06
In the event I were to not use the midbass (the QSC 164 up there) But instead opt for the full range, Wouldnt that basically mean I would go for 2 QSC 216's? In which case, neither amps would cut it correct? Or just leave the back at 75 watt RMS and fade it as you said? Or are the midbass capable of acting as a midrange, even though their frequency response is lower than the full range speakers?
UKinstaller on 11/29/2006 22:47:33
plan on spending about $100 for the dash kit for your vehicle. it has integrated climate controls that you have to replace. but, i must ask, why would you put a Boss HU in your car?? factory would be better, more dependent, and look better. the dash kits don't look good in your car unless you get a bad a$$ double din screen, like an alpine or pioneer.
do you have the Bose system?? if so, needs to be bypassed.
also, factory speakers are 5x7 all the way around. if you want to do some nice components, plan on building some speaker provisions to get them to mount properly. very easy to do.
-UK
Orgullo on 11/30/2006 02:44:25
Negative on the bose system. Main reason behind replacing my HU is that, although it currently is a 6 disc in dash changer, is wont play MP3s or any other format aside from the typical CD audio. Not only that, but theres no 'stop' or 'pause', its really annoying. Ive also already considered mounting the speakers. the actual hole in the doors is 6.25" all around. Beneath the plastic the speaker resides at a 45* angle, part of the speaker itself is hidden. The grill on the outside has a diameter of 6.5", and including that plastic ring around the grill its 7". Im pretty sure 6.5" speakers would fit with minimal moding. Correct me if im wrong though. And suppose I do have to build something, what materials would I use to build that? Fabricating things isnt my specialty.
And thank you on the HU tip, Ill take a gander at those. As for the Mounting, I was half planning on messing with the dash kit, as in cutting it to retain as much of the original as possible, and only modifying the upper portion containing the 2 DIN HU. And I am planning on a 6.5-7" LCD HU.
Victor on 11/30/2006 03:06:36
Alpine, Blaupunkt, Clarion, Eclipse, Panasonic and Pioneer all have very good 2Din units.
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