ok heres the deal. i dont got this **** in my car but i got a home stereo system. it runs off a 120 watt amp with 2x 5.25" speakers. (all of which i bought together as one home stereo system) it hits hard for little speakers and a pussy amp. but heres what i did. i bought 2 - 12" legacy subs, 500 watts a piece and hooked them up to my stereo with new wiring. the bass is ok (could be better) but the trebel and actual voices sound ****ty. my 5.25" speakers sound better than the 12" ones do. is it because the tweeters are on the outside of the smaller speakers? or do i need a bigger amp to run the double 500 watt subs? help me i want to blow my eardrums out but i need to use my big speakers to do it.
Replies (17)
compvr15s on 08/10/2003 23:42:23
subs are not meant to run the mids and highs. is the amp an auto amp or home theater, if home theather your not going to get very good power going to your subs, i think many home stereos are 8ohms and many subs are either 2 or 4, but there are also 8 ohm subs. just depends on how you have them wired. is this system going to be in your car or in your house, if your house, good luck tryin to blow your ear drums. too much area for the bass to cover, with a more confined area such as a vehicle the bass with be louder.
Swez on 08/10/2003 23:57:55
If you want bass in your car, get a sub amp designed for car audio. They have very different parameters (home VS Car) stereo and if you really want some bass in our car, a decent car amp is you best bet.
If you have a budget in mind, I think we can give you some amp options that will do a much better job then using a 12 volts to 120 volts invertor, as these are not cheap and the amp is not well suited to what you are proposing.
FYI: Since you are new here, just a friendly heads up... we run this site PG rated and would appreciate it if we all avoid "colorful" language OK? Thanks...
Read the posts and FAQ's a bit to get some ideas and then get a budget in mind too. The subs you have will do OK in the right enclosure and a decent amp to power same. Don't have to break the bank to get more bass here.
Comments?
Swez
Tray on 08/11/2003 09:58:50
So, what exactly are you trying to do?
Is it an all around loud home stereo you're seeking? If so, the 12s are not going to help you in this arena. You'll be much better with the small 5.25" ones that came with the system.
If you're looking to add some bass to what you currently have, you'll be better off looking to something in the 100 - 150 watt requirements, that is 8ohm, and making a large vented box for it.
Swez on 08/11/2003 11:30:09
Yep, if you are looking to upgrade your Home system, a set of 12's and a decent amp will do that. Just need a good filter network from the new amp to subs to block the mids and highs.
There are active or passive filters for this purpose and can just be added to what you have already... if you have tape outputs in this present receiver, you can get your audio signals from these and then into a bass amp to power your subs.
What are you looking to accomplish here? I am confused too!
Swez
joe-d on 08/11/2003 17:27:15
i m trying to figure out why my 12" subs dont sound like a 12" sub is supposed to. theyre brand new, with brand new wiring. i want alot of bass and my 5.25" subs seem to be doing a better job of putting out sound than the 12s. its almost like the subs arent getting enough power to them and i figured its cause they were hooked up to a home stereo sysem. so i was wondering what i needed to do to make them sound good. its almost like the trebel is muffled, and the 5.25" speakers surpass the 12" ones sound completely at the same volume. this isnt for my car, its going in the house. i just want to know what i need to do to make the speakers put out more sound., cause they sound weak.
baine on 08/11/2003 17:43:38
Ok for one you are running a 4 ohm sub on a 8 ohm system.
For two you are useing a sub made for a car.
If you want a loud home system buy a powered sub for your home system. Buy a better reciver and get some good dipole speakers . If you want to use your legacy 12s you need to get them in a sealed or ported box and wire them up for 8 ohms. But your reciver will not have what it takes to push them.
I do not know if it is possable to hook up a power converter from 110 to 12 volts ( anyone help here ) if it is you could get a line out converter and do some fancy wireing and mabey get a car amp in the house but...WHY WOULD YOU WANT TOO??????????????
baine on 08/11/2003 17:49:27
Also Your subs are JUST FOR BASS IF YOU WANT LOUD HIGHS AND MIDS YOU NEED THAT TYPE OF SPEAKER . I repeat SUBS ARE FOR BASS. your little 5.25 will be louder every time as far as that goes they are made for mids and highs which tend to be heard over bass ( unless it is overwealming)
Tray on 08/12/2003 08:57:02
Well, actually running a 4 ohm speaker from an amp which typically runs at 8 ohms will typically get more power than an 8 ohm speaker. BUT - this will also overload the home stereo, as most are not stable at 4 ohms.
Just like when you run your car amp at 2 ohms, you get more power than at 4.
If you are truly set on using those speakers in your house, you will need to get a new power amp which can put out enough power to make them sound decent. About 250 watts at 4 ohm should be decent.
Next - you need to make sure they are crossed over properly. If you're expecting the subwoofer to reproduce the entire sound spectrum, yes it will sound muffled, and you will hear faint voices, treble etc.... The subwoofers are only meant to play the very low end frequencies, where the other speakers in the system will reproduce the mids/highs (Should be your 5.25s here).
Let me ask something here. Are your "5.25"s home speakers, or are they subs? You've referred to them as both so far, and this can make a huge difference in what you're expecting to hear.
accusedmonk on 08/12/2003 21:24:39
I was reading this a few days ago and forgot about my 9 speaker home stereo system, not including the subwoofer. 5 of the speakers came with it (RCA RT2600) here's the link for it. http://www.rca.com/product/viewdetail/0,2588,PI700255-CI700022,00.html? The other 4 came with my comp from logitech. All the channels have 2 speakers each except for the center. All the speakers are around 100max, 50 rms.
All the speakers are in parallel with each other. Each one is 8 ohms bringing down the load to 4 for each channel except the center. The subwoofer is the same way. Specs for the sub are in the link. http://www.djaudiosuperstore.com/detail.asp?product_id=JBL_MP255S
At 8 ohms I do know that the sub output is about 150watts max, but at 4 I'm not sure at all. I have no idea how to figure that out. I'm just guessin its between 250-500 max.
The reciever does get hot, there arent any seperate amps for anything not the sub either. It sounds great, the sub gives full, very deep bass. To keep the reciever cool at higher volumes I installed a fan above it under the desk where the recievers at.
I was told about a month ago that car audio signals are different from home audio. I don't see the difference, one reason being my home speakers work fine for subs in my car. The other being that the only difference between the amps are the power source. Car amps dont need the power transformer that steps down the voltage to ~12. That's how I see it.
I may be wrong but the subs he has should work great as long as he has,
1. A good enclosure for the subs, which I've heard so much about from Swez haha.
2. A filter set at about 300hz or less to block higher frequencies to subs if you run them from the same amp as the mids/highs.
3. Maybe get a good reciever so you can plug in more speakers and have a seperate sub out built into it with the filter already there.
However you do it, the subs should work fine in my eyes. I hope this helps, I couldn't exactly tell what was going on.
Swez on 08/13/2003 09:48:56
If this is a system to improve Bass performance in your HT application, a separate amp is needed to power the sub(s). This will need to be a sub amp that has a low pass filter network to block out mids and higha dn have enough power to push the subs to adequate SPL levels w/o clipping the amp.
There are these things called plate amps which attach to the sub enclosure, (or hide them in the HT rack). They are powered by 120 Volts AC and come in several wattage ratings.
Have a look at this: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3
This may be very adequate: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=13736129&St=1082&St2=-66132481&St3=91390843&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=9388&DID=7
Swez
joe-d on 08/14/2003 00:57:29
thanks you guys. i got a suggestion from a friend to put the subs in a corner (speakers facing wall) or a closet. i tried the corner thing and it seemed to help alot by not letting the bass spread out so much and sorta confining it. im considering buying a tower speaker with a 8 ohm 15" woofer on it. this should give me some of the bass im looking for.
accusedmonk on 08/14/2003 10:06:52
If you have some money to blow and want some very powerful bass, go to www.djaudiosuperstore.com and check out some of thier subwoofers and speakers. I suggest going with JBL, I have thier dual 15" bandpass sub. They have to ship it to you by 18-wheeler though. It cost's a lot but you definately get what you pay for trust me.
compvr15s on 08/15/2003 21:43:09
i recommed just gettin a good 12 or 15 inch powered sub and go that route, you will definilty be happy. as far as placing them in the corner or in a closet they will sound better becuase you dont hear all that distortion or as much of the high and mids. im sure the setup that accusedmonk mentioned would blow you away when ya hear it but not many people want to spend that much money or just cant afford to
Swez on 08/15/2003 23:42:59
Man, what about the enclosures used for these subs? How large are the enclosures and what subs are being used here? Legacy what model? What size is the enclosure?
First, gotta have adequate power to move these cones...
Second, have to have an enclosure that brings out the bass of the sub(s) used...
Third, need a low Pass filter to block the highs.
Finally, using the corners as sub locations, will pick up several dB of bass from floor and walls coupling, but may lose some accurate bass... a bit boomy this way.
Swez
accusedmonk on 08/16/2003 10:06:53
I placed my sub facing the door in the far right corner tilted up. The volume everywhere in the house is the same for bass now, louder in some places, and a bit softer upstairs. But from just straight up to being tilted facing the door sounds like it doubled the volume.
Swez on 08/16/2003 12:16:20
Yes, that's what I was saying... wall/floor acoustic coupling (transfer function) and a quazi-horn loaded throat is causing that. Ver good way to boost over all SPL with minimal amp power, but poorly defined bass... boomy.
When you are ready to talk turkey and get some amping power behind the subs, we're just fishing in a pond.
Oh, what size are the boxes for these subs? H,W & D?
Swez
Swez on 08/16/2003 12:16:20
Yes, that's what I was saying... wall/floor acoustic coupling (transfer function) and a quazi-horn loaded throat is causing that. Ver good way to boost over all SPL with minimal amp power, but poorly defined bass... boomy.
When you are ready to talk turkey and get some amping power behind the subs, we're just fishing in a pond.
Oh, what size are the boxes for these subs? H,W & D?
Swez
Replies (17)
compvr15s on 08/10/2003 23:42:23
subs are not meant to run the mids and highs. is the amp an auto amp or home theater, if home theather your not going to get very good power going to your subs, i think many home stereos are 8ohms and many subs are either 2 or 4, but there are also 8 ohm subs. just depends on how you have them wired. is this system going to be in your car or in your house, if your house, good luck tryin to blow your ear drums. too much area for the bass to cover, with a more confined area such as a vehicle the bass with be louder.
Swez on 08/10/2003 23:57:55
If you want bass in your car, get a sub amp designed for car audio. They have very different parameters (home VS Car) stereo and if you really want some bass in our car, a decent car amp is you best bet.
If you have a budget in mind, I think we can give you some amp options that will do a much better job then using a 12 volts to 120 volts invertor, as these are not cheap and the amp is not well suited to what you are proposing.
FYI: Since you are new here, just a friendly heads up... we run this site PG rated and would appreciate it if we all avoid "colorful" language OK? Thanks...
Read the posts and FAQ's a bit to get some ideas and then get a budget in mind too. The subs you have will do OK in the right enclosure and a decent amp to power same. Don't have to break the bank to get more bass here.
Comments?
Swez
Tray on 08/11/2003 09:58:50
So, what exactly are you trying to do?
Is it an all around loud home stereo you're seeking? If so, the 12s are not going to help you in this arena. You'll be much better with the small 5.25" ones that came with the system.
If you're looking to add some bass to what you currently have, you'll be better off looking to something in the 100 - 150 watt requirements, that is 8ohm, and making a large vented box for it.
Swez on 08/11/2003 11:30:09
Yep, if you are looking to upgrade your Home system, a set of 12's and a decent amp will do that. Just need a good filter network from the new amp to subs to block the mids and highs.
There are active or passive filters for this purpose and can just be added to what you have already... if you have tape outputs in this present receiver, you can get your audio signals from these and then into a bass amp to power your subs.
What are you looking to accomplish here? I am confused too!
Swez
joe-d on 08/11/2003 17:27:15
i m trying to figure out why my 12" subs dont sound like a 12" sub is supposed to. theyre brand new, with brand new wiring. i want alot of bass and my 5.25" subs seem to be doing a better job of putting out sound than the 12s. its almost like the subs arent getting enough power to them and i figured its cause they were hooked up to a home stereo sysem. so i was wondering what i needed to do to make them sound good. its almost like the trebel is muffled, and the 5.25" speakers surpass the 12" ones sound completely at the same volume. this isnt for my car, its going in the house. i just want to know what i need to do to make the speakers put out more sound., cause they sound weak.
baine on 08/11/2003 17:43:38
Ok for one you are running a 4 ohm sub on a 8 ohm system.
For two you are useing a sub made for a car.
If you want a loud home system buy a powered sub for your home system. Buy a better reciver and get some good dipole speakers . If you want to use your legacy 12s you need to get them in a sealed or ported box and wire them up for 8 ohms. But your reciver will not have what it takes to push them.
I do not know if it is possable to hook up a power converter from 110 to 12 volts ( anyone help here ) if it is you could get a line out converter and do some fancy wireing and mabey get a car amp in the house but...WHY WOULD YOU WANT TOO??????????????
baine on 08/11/2003 17:49:27
Also Your subs are JUST FOR BASS IF YOU WANT LOUD HIGHS AND MIDS YOU NEED THAT TYPE OF SPEAKER . I repeat SUBS ARE FOR BASS. your little 5.25 will be louder every time as far as that goes they are made for mids and highs which tend to be heard over bass ( unless it is overwealming)
Tray on 08/12/2003 08:57:02
Well, actually running a 4 ohm speaker from an amp which typically runs at 8 ohms will typically get more power than an 8 ohm speaker. BUT - this will also overload the home stereo, as most are not stable at 4 ohms.
Just like when you run your car amp at 2 ohms, you get more power than at 4.
If you are truly set on using those speakers in your house, you will need to get a new power amp which can put out enough power to make them sound decent. About 250 watts at 4 ohm should be decent.
Next - you need to make sure they are crossed over properly. If you're expecting the subwoofer to reproduce the entire sound spectrum, yes it will sound muffled, and you will hear faint voices, treble etc.... The subwoofers are only meant to play the very low end frequencies, where the other speakers in the system will reproduce the mids/highs (Should be your 5.25s here).
Let me ask something here. Are your "5.25"s home speakers, or are they subs? You've referred to them as both so far, and this can make a huge difference in what you're expecting to hear.
accusedmonk on 08/12/2003 21:24:39
I was reading this a few days ago and forgot about my 9 speaker home stereo system, not including the subwoofer. 5 of the speakers came with it (RCA RT2600) here's the link for it. http://www.rca.com/product/viewdetail/0,2588,PI700255-CI700022,00.html? The other 4 came with my comp from logitech. All the channels have 2 speakers each except for the center. All the speakers are around 100max, 50 rms.
All the speakers are in parallel with each other. Each one is 8 ohms bringing down the load to 4 for each channel except the center. The subwoofer is the same way. Specs for the sub are in the link. http://www.djaudiosuperstore.com/detail.asp?product_id=JBL_MP255S
At 8 ohms I do know that the sub output is about 150watts max, but at 4 I'm not sure at all. I have no idea how to figure that out. I'm just guessin its between 250-500 max.
The reciever does get hot, there arent any seperate amps for anything not the sub either. It sounds great, the sub gives full, very deep bass. To keep the reciever cool at higher volumes I installed a fan above it under the desk where the recievers at.
I was told about a month ago that car audio signals are different from home audio. I don't see the difference, one reason being my home speakers work fine for subs in my car. The other being that the only difference between the amps are the power source. Car amps dont need the power transformer that steps down the voltage to ~12. That's how I see it.
I may be wrong but the subs he has should work great as long as he has,
1. A good enclosure for the subs, which I've heard so much about from Swez haha.
2. A filter set at about 300hz or less to block higher frequencies to subs if you run them from the same amp as the mids/highs.
3. Maybe get a good reciever so you can plug in more speakers and have a seperate sub out built into it with the filter already there.
However you do it, the subs should work fine in my eyes. I hope this helps, I couldn't exactly tell what was going on.
Swez on 08/13/2003 09:48:56
If this is a system to improve Bass performance in your HT application, a separate amp is needed to power the sub(s). This will need to be a sub amp that has a low pass filter network to block out mids and higha dn have enough power to push the subs to adequate SPL levels w/o clipping the amp.
There are these things called plate amps which attach to the sub enclosure, (or hide them in the HT rack). They are powered by 120 Volts AC and come in several wattage ratings.
Have a look at this: http://www.partsexpress.com/webpage.cfm?&DID=7&WebPage_ID=3
This may be very adequate: http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&User_ID=13736129&St=1082&St2=-66132481&St3=91390843&DS_ID=3&Product_ID=9388&DID=7
Swez
joe-d on 08/14/2003 00:57:29
thanks you guys. i got a suggestion from a friend to put the subs in a corner (speakers facing wall) or a closet. i tried the corner thing and it seemed to help alot by not letting the bass spread out so much and sorta confining it. im considering buying a tower speaker with a 8 ohm 15" woofer on it. this should give me some of the bass im looking for.
accusedmonk on 08/14/2003 10:06:52
If you have some money to blow and want some very powerful bass, go to www.djaudiosuperstore.com and check out some of thier subwoofers and speakers. I suggest going with JBL, I have thier dual 15" bandpass sub. They have to ship it to you by 18-wheeler though. It cost's a lot but you definately get what you pay for trust me.
compvr15s on 08/15/2003 21:43:09
i recommed just gettin a good 12 or 15 inch powered sub and go that route, you will definilty be happy. as far as placing them in the corner or in a closet they will sound better becuase you dont hear all that distortion or as much of the high and mids. im sure the setup that accusedmonk mentioned would blow you away when ya hear it but not many people want to spend that much money or just cant afford to
Swez on 08/15/2003 23:42:59
Man, what about the enclosures used for these subs? How large are the enclosures and what subs are being used here? Legacy what model? What size is the enclosure?
First, gotta have adequate power to move these cones...
Second, have to have an enclosure that brings out the bass of the sub(s) used...
Third, need a low Pass filter to block the highs.
Finally, using the corners as sub locations, will pick up several dB of bass from floor and walls coupling, but may lose some accurate bass... a bit boomy this way.
Swez
accusedmonk on 08/16/2003 10:06:53
I placed my sub facing the door in the far right corner tilted up. The volume everywhere in the house is the same for bass now, louder in some places, and a bit softer upstairs. But from just straight up to being tilted facing the door sounds like it doubled the volume.
Swez on 08/16/2003 12:16:20
Yes, that's what I was saying... wall/floor acoustic coupling (transfer function) and a quazi-horn loaded throat is causing that. Ver good way to boost over all SPL with minimal amp power, but poorly defined bass... boomy.
When you are ready to talk turkey and get some amping power behind the subs, we're just fishing in a pond.
Oh, what size are the boxes for these subs? H,W & D?
Swez
Swez on 08/16/2003 12:16:20
Yes, that's what I was saying... wall/floor acoustic coupling (transfer function) and a quazi-horn loaded throat is causing that. Ver good way to boost over all SPL with minimal amp power, but poorly defined bass... boomy.
When you are ready to talk turkey and get some amping power behind the subs, we're just fishing in a pond.
Oh, what size are the boxes for these subs? H,W & D?
Swez
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