I've been researching and comparing headunits for my new car, and noticed something about the newer Alpines. I'm sure all of you have heard the complaint about every model below the ~$400 mark has a 2V preamp.
I don't like this at all, but I'm thinking about sacrificing a higher voltage for Alpines usual aesthetically pleasing look, and ease of use with an iPod.
Would a higher voltage preamp be ithat/i noticeable, or would I be fine with the 2V? Yes, I plan on adding an amp or two.
Replies (10)
cybersailor420 on 11/22/2006 11:03:02
The short answer is: as long as the amp you get allows you to set the gain at 2V (gain range includes a 2V setting), you won't notice a difference at all. Your amp and head unit will be matched perfectly.
I'm sure Swez will give you some more depth on this subject, if he sees fit.
-Ian-
swez on 11/22/2006 12:07:50
There's nothing bad about using a 2 volt preamp system if your amps have the gain settings to match or go below 2.0 volts.
If the amps you choose have gain settings between 250mV - 5.0 volts, you should be fine. (Most amps are well within that range today)
The other option is to add an outboard Line Driver w/active crossover or EQ, to kick up that 2 volts to a higher output value. There are many products that can do that available, but in most cases, a solid 2 volt preamp will do just fine.
Do you have any amp brands in mind to date? (Make and model numbers w/ links are most helpful)
Swez
aposynthesi on 11/22/2006 12:29:44
I was looking at the Alpine MRP-F450 V-Power Series (70x4@4), but I guess thats out of the question. It says it has a minimum setting of 4V.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/images/products/documents/OM_MRP-F450.pdf (page 9 - acrobat file, f.y.i.)
The Alpine MRV-F345 V12 Series (50x4@4) has a range of 0.2V to 4V.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/images/products/documents/MRV-F345_om.pdf (page 13)
Would a "Line Driver w/active crossover or EQ" add noise?
swez on 11/22/2006 17:47:26
You'll be fine with either amp here and a 2 volt HU. Each amp has a variable gain control that ranges below 1 volt to 4 volts RCA range.
The main funtion of the gain control, is to match the HU voltage output value to the amp used. If the HU is rated at 2 volts, the amp will also be set to ~2 volts sensitivity. However, since the gain settings are not linear on most amps, tuning by ear is often required. Test tones on a good quality test CD help a lot.
There is no need for a LD on either of these amp. A good quality LD/Xover or LD/EQ, when installed properly, will not add noise to a well grounded system.
Swez
PS Good to see ya back here Apos... it's been a while since you last posted.
aposynthesi on 11/22/2006 18:07:39
Thank you once again Swez! Yeah, it's been a while. I'm glad you recognized me! This is the only place I trust for answers. Been very busy with college and life in general. Bought myself a new (to me) car - Acura RSX. I'm trying to keep everything as OEM as possible.
Don't you think its a bit odd that Alpine's manuals aren't uniform? They didn't list the voltage range for the preamp on the cheaper one. Thus, my confusion.
I was also looking at this Eclipse headunit with an 8V preamp output: http://www.eclipse-web.com/cd/cd5000.html Seeing as how the amp doesn't go higher than 4V, would this cause problems?
swez on 11/22/2006 19:42:00
One thing Eclipse does not state clearly.... that 8 volt number is at 55 ohms amp impedence. (Not the usual 10 KOhms most amps use)
Meaning, if you buy this HU, best to use matching Eclipse amps that go with this series. Even then, am not sure you would have any real problems using the CD5000 and Alpine amps noted, there is enough gain control to drive either amp suitably.
Alpine amp notations are probably just out of date as one is a newer amp while the other is a bit older. So, that wold explain the problems with nomenclature. (Remember, these spec's are all translated from Japanese to English, French and Spanish too) That can be tricky too.
Acura is a fine ride and very easy to work on too. Did an install for a guy this summer. He used a JBL GTO II series, 6 channel and Infinity 6x9's in back and CDT 6.5 Classics up front. Sounded very nice too. It's a larger format amp, (long) but plenty of power here to spare.
Just for the fun of it, I tossed a 12" sealed (MTX Road Thunder) in the trunk and bridged the amp for MONO on 5/6 channels. Not too shabby at all either. If he did not have all the gear he was toting, That sub would have gone with him.
He used the DEH-860MP and we did an I-Pod AUX too. Very nice system match up when finished. A very happy camper.
Swez
PS Thanks for those CD's you sent me too... many guys liked them for Demo's.
aposynthesi on 11/22/2006 23:25:58
You're welcome for the CD's. If you thought those were good quality, you should check out the DVD-Audio versions of the albums. The Porcupine Tree "In Absentia" DVD-A was actually my first of that kind. I didn't expect a huge difference, but was I ever wrong!
I'll be sticking with Alpine then, of course. I don't know why I have such an obsession with them. They've nailed ease-of-use on the head. From my understanding, Alpine is actually an American company, (I may be wrong, though) so wouldn't their specs be translated from English into the other Languages, as opposed to Japanese? I would suspect this to be even more tricky, as English is a very descriptive language in comparison to others.
I love my car. I should have bought one sooner. I could have never imagined driving could be this fun. Dangerous, too... the car "looks fast," so cops tend to follow me around campus at night.
At the moment I have a pair of Alpine Type-R 6.5" Components that I bought a few months back, not knowing that they'd fit into my new car (with baffles, of course). I would love to get a pair of CDT CL-61 / 62's at some point, though I suppose those would need a higher output amplifier then the Type-R's - another 70W-RMS.
What car did you install this system in? It couldn't have been a RSX, since there are 6.5's all around.
Also, I didn't like using AUX with my Alpine 9835 - it seemed like it output sound of a lower quality than CD's (of course) and even the radio. It may have been the RCA cord that I was using, but I thought that was a bit odd, and is also why I'm not using that headunit in this car.
How have things been, by the way? I apologize for being rude and waiting until now to ask!
swez on 11/23/2006 00:30:25
That was an older Integra. (97-99 model I believe.
Yeah we found an initial problem with his I-Pod functions too. We noted his could use headphone or direct input functions. The headphone jact is used in both scenarios, just what settings were used in the player. (Direct output sounded much better than Headphone settings)
Things have been pretty rough this year to be honest. Business in Detroit has hit rock bottom and the worst year economically in a long time. Many are leaving the state and just dumping their homes, back to the banks. (Foreclosures are way up for 2005 -06) Don't come to MI, looking for a good job. They are far and few between.
My parents have been pretty up & down with health issues too. So, I am spread pretty thin at the moment. But ya know... my parents are very important and in a way, it's been good to have more time with them this year.
Heck, Mom is 80 and my Dad is 76 now. Who knows how much time on the clock they have left. So, I try to be avilable to their many needs as best I can. They cared for me... and now it's time to give some of that back to them too.
How about your situation? Sounds like school and other things have kept you hoppin too huh? Hate to say this... but it does not get any easier later dude.
Better... YES! Easier... NO!!! hehe I guess the best I can offer you now, is to stay sharp, study hard and learn the ropes as fast as you can. Competition is stiff out there later and you'll need all the stamina you can muster, to stay on top of your game.
Take care bro,
Swez
aposynthesi on 11/25/2006 18:44:41
Oh I know all about the economy in Detroit / MI this year. I've got a friend thats in the suburbs of Detroit who has been attempting to find a job for about a year now, and he's been unsuccessful so far. Atlanta on the other hand, is booming. Its pretty crazy how rapidly the area is growing.
I'm sorry to hear about your parents, but its a good thing that you're remaining optimistic, and spending more time with them.
School has been kind of horrible until now. I'm loving it. I love being busy all the time, and I love being challenged. I spent the majority of my first two years of college goofing around, so I've been making up for that.
Work is a pain in the ass. I don't like it at all. It's so repetitive, and I'm surrounded by depressed pessimists that just drag me down. All of that will change though. Fairly soon, hopefully. I've been working on my resume and also networking with a bunch of people to see what type of job would fit me best, and if I'd actually enjoy it, and continue enjoying it for more than a year or two.
Anyways, life is getting harder, but I'm enjoying it. I was bored with the easy route. Though, the easy life may have been my doing (i.e. not taking initiative to challenge myself).
Sean
swez on 11/26/2006 07:14:30
I hear ya bro... life can be a PITA at times. But if we reach out and share and ask for help, it does get easier.
We always have to option to be a "Big Fish" in a small pond. But for those who have the unction... go out into the deep waters and watch how things work in the big game world. The learning curve can be very steep and yes, there are many sharks in the water too. But if we really want to get the most out of life... it's out there, and we have to apply and stretch the envelope.
Heck, at 50 years old, it's very tempting to stay in the shallows and such. But, I thrive on a good challenge that nets a good payoff later. Yes, it takes effort... but we are not alone and help is often available, if we can find the right folks along the path.
Swez
I don't like this at all, but I'm thinking about sacrificing a higher voltage for Alpines usual aesthetically pleasing look, and ease of use with an iPod.
Would a higher voltage preamp be ithat/i noticeable, or would I be fine with the 2V? Yes, I plan on adding an amp or two.
Replies (10)
cybersailor420 on 11/22/2006 11:03:02
The short answer is: as long as the amp you get allows you to set the gain at 2V (gain range includes a 2V setting), you won't notice a difference at all. Your amp and head unit will be matched perfectly.
I'm sure Swez will give you some more depth on this subject, if he sees fit.
-Ian-
swez on 11/22/2006 12:07:50
There's nothing bad about using a 2 volt preamp system if your amps have the gain settings to match or go below 2.0 volts.
If the amps you choose have gain settings between 250mV - 5.0 volts, you should be fine. (Most amps are well within that range today)
The other option is to add an outboard Line Driver w/active crossover or EQ, to kick up that 2 volts to a higher output value. There are many products that can do that available, but in most cases, a solid 2 volt preamp will do just fine.
Do you have any amp brands in mind to date? (Make and model numbers w/ links are most helpful)
Swez
aposynthesi on 11/22/2006 12:29:44
I was looking at the Alpine MRP-F450 V-Power Series (70x4@4), but I guess thats out of the question. It says it has a minimum setting of 4V.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/images/products/documents/OM_MRP-F450.pdf (page 9 - acrobat file, f.y.i.)
The Alpine MRV-F345 V12 Series (50x4@4) has a range of 0.2V to 4V.
http://www.alpine-usa.com/images/products/documents/MRV-F345_om.pdf (page 13)
Would a "Line Driver w/active crossover or EQ" add noise?
swez on 11/22/2006 17:47:26
You'll be fine with either amp here and a 2 volt HU. Each amp has a variable gain control that ranges below 1 volt to 4 volts RCA range.
The main funtion of the gain control, is to match the HU voltage output value to the amp used. If the HU is rated at 2 volts, the amp will also be set to ~2 volts sensitivity. However, since the gain settings are not linear on most amps, tuning by ear is often required. Test tones on a good quality test CD help a lot.
There is no need for a LD on either of these amp. A good quality LD/Xover or LD/EQ, when installed properly, will not add noise to a well grounded system.
Swez
PS Good to see ya back here Apos... it's been a while since you last posted.
aposynthesi on 11/22/2006 18:07:39
Thank you once again Swez! Yeah, it's been a while. I'm glad you recognized me! This is the only place I trust for answers. Been very busy with college and life in general. Bought myself a new (to me) car - Acura RSX. I'm trying to keep everything as OEM as possible.
Don't you think its a bit odd that Alpine's manuals aren't uniform? They didn't list the voltage range for the preamp on the cheaper one. Thus, my confusion.
I was also looking at this Eclipse headunit with an 8V preamp output: http://www.eclipse-web.com/cd/cd5000.html Seeing as how the amp doesn't go higher than 4V, would this cause problems?
swez on 11/22/2006 19:42:00
One thing Eclipse does not state clearly.... that 8 volt number is at 55 ohms amp impedence. (Not the usual 10 KOhms most amps use)
Meaning, if you buy this HU, best to use matching Eclipse amps that go with this series. Even then, am not sure you would have any real problems using the CD5000 and Alpine amps noted, there is enough gain control to drive either amp suitably.
Alpine amp notations are probably just out of date as one is a newer amp while the other is a bit older. So, that wold explain the problems with nomenclature. (Remember, these spec's are all translated from Japanese to English, French and Spanish too) That can be tricky too.
Acura is a fine ride and very easy to work on too. Did an install for a guy this summer. He used a JBL GTO II series, 6 channel and Infinity 6x9's in back and CDT 6.5 Classics up front. Sounded very nice too. It's a larger format amp, (long) but plenty of power here to spare.
Just for the fun of it, I tossed a 12" sealed (MTX Road Thunder) in the trunk and bridged the amp for MONO on 5/6 channels. Not too shabby at all either. If he did not have all the gear he was toting, That sub would have gone with him.
He used the DEH-860MP and we did an I-Pod AUX too. Very nice system match up when finished. A very happy camper.
Swez
PS Thanks for those CD's you sent me too... many guys liked them for Demo's.
aposynthesi on 11/22/2006 23:25:58
You're welcome for the CD's. If you thought those were good quality, you should check out the DVD-Audio versions of the albums. The Porcupine Tree "In Absentia" DVD-A was actually my first of that kind. I didn't expect a huge difference, but was I ever wrong!
I'll be sticking with Alpine then, of course. I don't know why I have such an obsession with them. They've nailed ease-of-use on the head. From my understanding, Alpine is actually an American company, (I may be wrong, though) so wouldn't their specs be translated from English into the other Languages, as opposed to Japanese? I would suspect this to be even more tricky, as English is a very descriptive language in comparison to others.
I love my car. I should have bought one sooner. I could have never imagined driving could be this fun. Dangerous, too... the car "looks fast," so cops tend to follow me around campus at night.
At the moment I have a pair of Alpine Type-R 6.5" Components that I bought a few months back, not knowing that they'd fit into my new car (with baffles, of course). I would love to get a pair of CDT CL-61 / 62's at some point, though I suppose those would need a higher output amplifier then the Type-R's - another 70W-RMS.
What car did you install this system in? It couldn't have been a RSX, since there are 6.5's all around.
Also, I didn't like using AUX with my Alpine 9835 - it seemed like it output sound of a lower quality than CD's (of course) and even the radio. It may have been the RCA cord that I was using, but I thought that was a bit odd, and is also why I'm not using that headunit in this car.
How have things been, by the way? I apologize for being rude and waiting until now to ask!
swez on 11/23/2006 00:30:25
That was an older Integra. (97-99 model I believe.
Yeah we found an initial problem with his I-Pod functions too. We noted his could use headphone or direct input functions. The headphone jact is used in both scenarios, just what settings were used in the player. (Direct output sounded much better than Headphone settings)
Things have been pretty rough this year to be honest. Business in Detroit has hit rock bottom and the worst year economically in a long time. Many are leaving the state and just dumping their homes, back to the banks. (Foreclosures are way up for 2005 -06) Don't come to MI, looking for a good job. They are far and few between.
My parents have been pretty up & down with health issues too. So, I am spread pretty thin at the moment. But ya know... my parents are very important and in a way, it's been good to have more time with them this year.
Heck, Mom is 80 and my Dad is 76 now. Who knows how much time on the clock they have left. So, I try to be avilable to their many needs as best I can. They cared for me... and now it's time to give some of that back to them too.
How about your situation? Sounds like school and other things have kept you hoppin too huh? Hate to say this... but it does not get any easier later dude.
Better... YES! Easier... NO!!! hehe I guess the best I can offer you now, is to stay sharp, study hard and learn the ropes as fast as you can. Competition is stiff out there later and you'll need all the stamina you can muster, to stay on top of your game.
Take care bro,
Swez
aposynthesi on 11/25/2006 18:44:41
Oh I know all about the economy in Detroit / MI this year. I've got a friend thats in the suburbs of Detroit who has been attempting to find a job for about a year now, and he's been unsuccessful so far. Atlanta on the other hand, is booming. Its pretty crazy how rapidly the area is growing.
I'm sorry to hear about your parents, but its a good thing that you're remaining optimistic, and spending more time with them.
School has been kind of horrible until now. I'm loving it. I love being busy all the time, and I love being challenged. I spent the majority of my first two years of college goofing around, so I've been making up for that.
Work is a pain in the ass. I don't like it at all. It's so repetitive, and I'm surrounded by depressed pessimists that just drag me down. All of that will change though. Fairly soon, hopefully. I've been working on my resume and also networking with a bunch of people to see what type of job would fit me best, and if I'd actually enjoy it, and continue enjoying it for more than a year or two.
Anyways, life is getting harder, but I'm enjoying it. I was bored with the easy route. Though, the easy life may have been my doing (i.e. not taking initiative to challenge myself).
Sean
swez on 11/26/2006 07:14:30
I hear ya bro... life can be a PITA at times. But if we reach out and share and ask for help, it does get easier.
We always have to option to be a "Big Fish" in a small pond. But for those who have the unction... go out into the deep waters and watch how things work in the big game world. The learning curve can be very steep and yes, there are many sharks in the water too. But if we really want to get the most out of life... it's out there, and we have to apply and stretch the envelope.
Heck, at 50 years old, it's very tempting to stay in the shallows and such. But, I thrive on a good challenge that nets a good payoff later. Yes, it takes effort... but we are not alone and help is often available, if we can find the right folks along the path.
Swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
