hey everyone hopefully someone can help, i have a phoniex gold octane 8 -4 channel amp, i recently pulled out one of my speakers from my door and accidently touched metal, it sparked and all of the sudden i hear a loud whining noise from the speakers i shut the deck off turn it back on and same thing, i unplugged the rca and the noise is gone, now when i turn my ignition on a loud thump noise comes from my speakers, when i have my car running the whining noise is even louder , all fuses are good ground is good what could be my problem thanks in advance
Replies (16)
swez on 11/19/2006 17:43:12
Try regrounding the HU to a fresh metal location near the dash and see if that clears things up. Also, check your dash lamp fuse too. It may have blown and you won't know it, until driving at night.
Swez
PS Did you learn something important about working on speakers with the amp on? COFFEE
nelly on 11/19/2006 19:28:33
great thanks for your help im going to try it tommorow too dark out
swez on 11/19/2006 21:00:48
Good luck and cross your fingers that it's only a bad HU ground here. It seems so, as the amp was quiet w/ the RCA's removed. (Good sign that amp was not damaged here)
When wiring aftermarket HU's, it's best to use a dedicated ground for the HU. (Bare metal connection in the dash or floor pan) When using harness grounds, "sometimes" we get noise off the dash lamps and gages.
FYI: If the gage and dash light fuse blew, that's a good hint your momentary short only popped a fuse. Loosing the power on that circuit can also affect the HU ground.
Swez
nelly on 11/20/2006 21:05:01
tried everything still no go, bought diffrent rca nothing tried diffrent amp nothing use the ground staight to the battery nothing found a solid ground no go checked all my fuses everything is fine, i think my deck is fried. is there such thing as blowing the rca inputs on a deck much help appreciated thanks
swez on 11/20/2006 21:33:51
OK, that's the first step. Others get deeper and more involved as we dig deeper. The next levels are testing the HU and then the amp to see what works and what does not.
The HU is "probably" the root issue here and needs to be bench tested outside the car, to see if the HU is damaged or in good working order.
Here, you have to remove the HU from the dash and wire it up to speakers and a 12 volt DC power source. (A car battery)
The main HU wires you'll use are:
1. Red and Yellow wire can be attached to the +12 post on the battery
2. The Black wire is attached to the battery ground post
3. Test each paired speaker wire with some handy test speakers
If you get the noise in this manner via a CD input, something has been damaged in the HU and either needs repaired or replacement. If the signals are clean and the noise is not present, we move to step #2.
Step #2: Here, we hook up a known good amp, wires and speakers to the RCA outs from the HU. If the noise is present this time, the RCA outs may have been damaged and need repair or replacement. If the noise is not present and all is working normally, we look next to all wiring in your audio chain.
I'll hold off on that step for now, until you have had a chance to perform steps #1 & #2.
Do you understand the steps outlined above so far?
Swez
nelly on 11/20/2006 21:45:22
yes i understand all the steps , i know i didnt blow anything on the speaker outputs on the deck cause i have all my speakers directly connected to my amp thru the sides of my car so could be my wiring as well maybe a cut wire or something ill check tommorow with more time thanks you been a great help
swez on 11/20/2006 22:07:34
One very simple thing you can try... reground the amp to a clean, bare metal point near the amp.
This is a common problem that many overlook. (The importance of good grounding from the HU and all devices in the audio chain) If the amp is not well grounded. It will seek alternate grounds via RCA's. This often produces "ground loops" in the system and we get the kinds of noise mentioned. (Engine whine, pops and clicks, ect.)
Here the HU has inadvertantly become a ground source via the RCA's and antenna ground. These circuits are not designed to be the only grounds. They cannot take the power needed and this is where the noise comes into play.
If you want more background on resolving typical groud loop issues, have a look at this:
http://www.bcae1.com/ground.htm
Swez
nelly on 11/21/2006 17:55:30
just tried my buddys deck in my car and it worked perfect no noise at all, so now i know my deck is screwed what do you think it could be something blew inside thanks
swez on 11/21/2006 19:09:46
Probably a few preamp chips or filters in the HU are most likely the failure mode. (RCA or speaker outs circuits in the HU) RCA's are grounded to the HU and amp circuits. Pushing power back through a grounded circuit, always causes some kind of damage.
That momentary short damaged some circuits in the HU as a power spike came into the grounding system of your dash components. It's probably akin to a lightning strike on the power grid in your home and having no surge protectors to stop or limit the damage. Fuses protect the normal power supply circuits here. But there are no protection circuits on the RCA's and speaker outputs of most any HU I know about.
If this is an expensive HU and you really like the product, consider sending it out for a repair estimate. Sure, you'll have to wait a while for the repairs, but if the repair bill is less than 50% of a new one, that's money well spent. In the mean time, see if you can borrow a HU from a buddy of just buy a low budget one to fill the gap.
Good luck,
Swez
PS Sorry there's no cheap and easy fix on this one Nelly. Pulling that speaker with power on, was a bad idea. Just chalk it up to experience and tell your friends not to make the same mistake.
cybersailor420 on 11/21/2006 19:13:36
Hey. I just had te same problem with my Pioneer Premier DEH-P860, and it cost me $80 to have it fixed. And that's in the Virgin Islands! I would recommend at least getting a quote to have it fixed.
-Ian-
nelly on 11/21/2006 19:18:52
luckily i bought 2 months ago i should have no problem with pioneer i hope. thanks guys for the info
swez on 11/21/2006 19:29:13
Chances are very good, you can get a warranty repair on it if it came with one. Worst case, you'll have to cough up some cash to have it repaired. Just depends on where you bought it.
Swez
demetman on 11/22/2006 00:32:11
Relax Nelly, everything Swez has mentioned is 100% correct. I am currently dealing the same exact problem you have encountered. I had just completed installing my system with swez's help and accidentially touched the rcas on my JL 1000/1 while adjusting the voltage sensativity. A very loud hum occured and my sub out rcas from HU were shot. I also experienced a great deal of alternator and engine noise which did not previous exist before the incident.
For the remedy, call pioneer 800-421-1404 for a service station near you. I bought my unit from an authorized dealer and all parts and labor are covered. It's been a week so far and the parts have not yet arrived. Two weeks sounds more like it. I know it stinks but things could be worse. Good luck
nelly on 11/30/2006 18:51:44
nelly on 11/30/2006 18:56:21
just got my unit back from pioneer after a week, not too bad turns out i blew the amp fuse inside the unit wich cost 2 dollars and labour was 65, didnt pay for anything since it was still under warranty. so for all of you if you encounter this problem which i had open up your unit and check the fuse, for pioneer models that is, it gets pretty boring without music
cplkittle on 12/4/2006 21:19:12
That is a touchy subject - taking apart electronics can void the warranty. On the other hand, sometimes it will reveal an easy fix. I took apart an amplifier once that had a screw that was long enough to go through the bottom plate, through the case, and touch one of the speaker terminals on the inside. This was a 2 week ongoing diagnosis nightmare. It was off and on, and never faulted out for me when the guy brought it in.
Replies (16)
swez on 11/19/2006 17:43:12
Try regrounding the HU to a fresh metal location near the dash and see if that clears things up. Also, check your dash lamp fuse too. It may have blown and you won't know it, until driving at night.
Swez
PS Did you learn something important about working on speakers with the amp on? COFFEE
nelly on 11/19/2006 19:28:33
great thanks for your help im going to try it tommorow too dark out
swez on 11/19/2006 21:00:48
Good luck and cross your fingers that it's only a bad HU ground here. It seems so, as the amp was quiet w/ the RCA's removed. (Good sign that amp was not damaged here)
When wiring aftermarket HU's, it's best to use a dedicated ground for the HU. (Bare metal connection in the dash or floor pan) When using harness grounds, "sometimes" we get noise off the dash lamps and gages.
FYI: If the gage and dash light fuse blew, that's a good hint your momentary short only popped a fuse. Loosing the power on that circuit can also affect the HU ground.
Swez
nelly on 11/20/2006 21:05:01
tried everything still no go, bought diffrent rca nothing tried diffrent amp nothing use the ground staight to the battery nothing found a solid ground no go checked all my fuses everything is fine, i think my deck is fried. is there such thing as blowing the rca inputs on a deck much help appreciated thanks
swez on 11/20/2006 21:33:51
OK, that's the first step. Others get deeper and more involved as we dig deeper. The next levels are testing the HU and then the amp to see what works and what does not.
The HU is "probably" the root issue here and needs to be bench tested outside the car, to see if the HU is damaged or in good working order.
Here, you have to remove the HU from the dash and wire it up to speakers and a 12 volt DC power source. (A car battery)
The main HU wires you'll use are:
1. Red and Yellow wire can be attached to the +12 post on the battery
2. The Black wire is attached to the battery ground post
3. Test each paired speaker wire with some handy test speakers
If you get the noise in this manner via a CD input, something has been damaged in the HU and either needs repaired or replacement. If the signals are clean and the noise is not present, we move to step #2.
Step #2: Here, we hook up a known good amp, wires and speakers to the RCA outs from the HU. If the noise is present this time, the RCA outs may have been damaged and need repair or replacement. If the noise is not present and all is working normally, we look next to all wiring in your audio chain.
I'll hold off on that step for now, until you have had a chance to perform steps #1 & #2.
Do you understand the steps outlined above so far?
Swez
nelly on 11/20/2006 21:45:22
yes i understand all the steps , i know i didnt blow anything on the speaker outputs on the deck cause i have all my speakers directly connected to my amp thru the sides of my car so could be my wiring as well maybe a cut wire or something ill check tommorow with more time thanks you been a great help
swez on 11/20/2006 22:07:34
One very simple thing you can try... reground the amp to a clean, bare metal point near the amp.
This is a common problem that many overlook. (The importance of good grounding from the HU and all devices in the audio chain) If the amp is not well grounded. It will seek alternate grounds via RCA's. This often produces "ground loops" in the system and we get the kinds of noise mentioned. (Engine whine, pops and clicks, ect.)
Here the HU has inadvertantly become a ground source via the RCA's and antenna ground. These circuits are not designed to be the only grounds. They cannot take the power needed and this is where the noise comes into play.
If you want more background on resolving typical groud loop issues, have a look at this:
http://www.bcae1.com/ground.htm
Swez
nelly on 11/21/2006 17:55:30
just tried my buddys deck in my car and it worked perfect no noise at all, so now i know my deck is screwed what do you think it could be something blew inside thanks
swez on 11/21/2006 19:09:46
Probably a few preamp chips or filters in the HU are most likely the failure mode. (RCA or speaker outs circuits in the HU) RCA's are grounded to the HU and amp circuits. Pushing power back through a grounded circuit, always causes some kind of damage.
That momentary short damaged some circuits in the HU as a power spike came into the grounding system of your dash components. It's probably akin to a lightning strike on the power grid in your home and having no surge protectors to stop or limit the damage. Fuses protect the normal power supply circuits here. But there are no protection circuits on the RCA's and speaker outputs of most any HU I know about.
If this is an expensive HU and you really like the product, consider sending it out for a repair estimate. Sure, you'll have to wait a while for the repairs, but if the repair bill is less than 50% of a new one, that's money well spent. In the mean time, see if you can borrow a HU from a buddy of just buy a low budget one to fill the gap.
Good luck,
Swez
PS Sorry there's no cheap and easy fix on this one Nelly. Pulling that speaker with power on, was a bad idea. Just chalk it up to experience and tell your friends not to make the same mistake.
cybersailor420 on 11/21/2006 19:13:36
Hey. I just had te same problem with my Pioneer Premier DEH-P860, and it cost me $80 to have it fixed. And that's in the Virgin Islands! I would recommend at least getting a quote to have it fixed.
-Ian-
nelly on 11/21/2006 19:18:52
luckily i bought 2 months ago i should have no problem with pioneer i hope. thanks guys for the info
swez on 11/21/2006 19:29:13
Chances are very good, you can get a warranty repair on it if it came with one. Worst case, you'll have to cough up some cash to have it repaired. Just depends on where you bought it.
Swez
demetman on 11/22/2006 00:32:11
Relax Nelly, everything Swez has mentioned is 100% correct. I am currently dealing the same exact problem you have encountered. I had just completed installing my system with swez's help and accidentially touched the rcas on my JL 1000/1 while adjusting the voltage sensativity. A very loud hum occured and my sub out rcas from HU were shot. I also experienced a great deal of alternator and engine noise which did not previous exist before the incident.
For the remedy, call pioneer 800-421-1404 for a service station near you. I bought my unit from an authorized dealer and all parts and labor are covered. It's been a week so far and the parts have not yet arrived. Two weeks sounds more like it. I know it stinks but things could be worse. Good luck
nelly on 11/30/2006 18:51:44
nelly on 11/30/2006 18:56:21
just got my unit back from pioneer after a week, not too bad turns out i blew the amp fuse inside the unit wich cost 2 dollars and labour was 65, didnt pay for anything since it was still under warranty. so for all of you if you encounter this problem which i had open up your unit and check the fuse, for pioneer models that is, it gets pretty boring without music
cplkittle on 12/4/2006 21:19:12
That is a touchy subject - taking apart electronics can void the warranty. On the other hand, sometimes it will reveal an easy fix. I took apart an amplifier once that had a screw that was long enough to go through the bottom plate, through the case, and touch one of the speaker terminals on the inside. This was a 2 week ongoing diagnosis nightmare. It was off and on, and never faulted out for me when the guy brought it in.
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