i have a 2001 cavalier, stock 105A alt. i want to get a hifonics bxi 1606d. run it at 1 ohm, 1600wrms, to 2 12" type-R's. i need to know if that is going to be too much for my electrical system to handle..
also would running another battery parallel help at all with no h/o alt?
Replies (17)
swez on 11/7/2006 09:17:28
It all depends on how hard you push the amp/subs. At full power, this amp will demand some serious current and no, a stock electrical system will not keep up.
At full power this amp will draw over 100 amperes of current.
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/7/2006 15:40:25
me and my friend cant decide whether getting a new alt or getting another battery and running it parallel would help.
anonymous_a on 11/7/2006 19:27:01
Check this website out.They seem to have good deals on HO alternators.
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators-chevrolet-gmc-cavalier.html
swez on 11/7/2006 20:08:12
Well, the car needs about 50A's to run properly alone. Then add your 100A's for this sub amp and perhaps another 50A's for a solid 4 channel for mids/highs. That's 200A's right there.
Adding a 2nd BAT to the ALT, is like adding another electrical load to your over-taxed stock system. (10-25A additional loading) It's fine for short duration use a DB Drag test. However, if one is in the habit of bumpin his ride a lot at night and you have other high current things in use as well, (Heater blower, window defogger, headlights, Fog lights. ect...) idle speed output from a stock ALT is well below 105A's until the engine RPM is above 2000 RPM's. This is where a H.O. ALT really can help.
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/7/2006 23:36:55
i dont think ill be gettin a mid channel amp, so i wont have to worry about that...for now..
so if i get that amp, and get a 160A alt off that website, will i need another battery?
swez on 11/8/2006 00:22:42
Think ahead Luke! This sub amp will be so strong, it will totally drown out your mid/highs once it's all hooked up and pumpin strong bass dude.
I would strongly suggest the 200A model ALT. The price is about same and you can build off that with good reserve power for later. $170.00 for a 200A ALT is a very good deal here. Many others will charge well over $200.00. Figure about $1.50/ampere is a good price. Anything lower, (Like this one) is a very good deal !!!
Say good night Gracy,
Swez
A single good BAT under the hood should do the job and use 1/0 power feed wire and a 100/150 ANL fuse near the BAT too.
Victor on 11/8/2006 02:14:22
every ones talking about current draw... didnt anyone notice this in the first post....
"""""""""i want to get a hifonics bxi 1606d. run it at 1 ohm, 1600wrms, to 2 12" type-R's.""""""""""""
.......................................................................................................................
"""""""i need to know if that is going to be too much for my electrical system to handle..""""""""
luke, you even need to know how much power your subs will handle.......and what kinda pro-cons come with soo much extra power.... how to handle this extra juice.... wht kinda enclosure design needs to be implimented, how will it affect the over all sound response..
more power is more responsibility.... by the way.. those subs are 500wrms subs each..
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 08:24:40
type-r's can take 1kw daily, people do it. alpine underrated these subs.
if it does drown out the bass, i will just turn it down or get some better mids/highs.
swez on 11/8/2006 09:24:04
Yeah, Alpine SWR's are rated at 500 watts RMS and 1000 peak. We look at the RMS power handling of the subs and RMS power of the amp output at a given load. (Speake/sub ohmic load)
A stock HU can deliver about 8 -15 watts RMS of clean audio power to attached speakers. Stock speakers are usually limited to ~15 watts RMS per channel.
Aftermarket HU's can deliver 18 - 22 watts RMS per channel. Not bad for a daily driver and the average listener who justs wants some background audio as they commute. (Music and Talk Radio) A serious audio buff usually demands a lot more fidelity and power when upgrading a given system.
FYI: Your subs will produce about 135-140dB of bass SPL as mentioned. At best a good Aftermarket HU and very efficient speakers can deliver about 100dB of clean SPL. Not bad for the average listener. But look at the SPL differential here (A spread of 10 -15 dB is pretty well balanced) However, a 20dB or more spread between Mid/Highs and subs are pretty extreme and very unbalanced. (Very bass heavy)
Yes, some guys like lots of bass when they want to show off a bit. However, if the goal is plenty of clean SPL at all ranges, adding full range amping power will bridge that gap.
Your call,
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 16:36:16
so it will probably be bass heavy even when the subs are in the trunk? a separate cabin from the front?
MrBrownstone on 11/8/2006 17:59:04
There are a lot of variables missing in the mix, but I'm glad you are asking these questions now rather than when you have already installed everything.
When an amplifier is rated at 1000W, that means at it's maximum output. When an amplifier's fuse rating is 100A, that means that it expects to consume 100A as a maximum.
The good news is that our car audio systems aren't putting out a constant amount of power...it depends upon how loud you are playing the system, and the music you are putting through it. A kick drum is a sudden boom, then it is gone. The amount of current it consumes is momentary, then back to zero again.
When you system is quiet, the 'idle current' is the amount of power your amplifier is consuming. This is like the amount of gasoline your car is using at idle. Just being on, I'd say 2 to 3A of current.
When you go from idle to 10W, the amount of additional current probably doesn't even change more than 1/2 an amp. However, when you get to 1000W, it's going to be quite intense, and over 100A is not unrealistic....for about 1/4 of a second.
Keep in mind, if you are banging your system hard to regular music (not burp tones), the likelyhood that you are using 100A for more than 1/4 of each second is next to none. Although your lights will likely dim when you hammer the output, most of the time, your amplifier is doing nothing.
If you use your system at full output 100% of the time, you'll need an alternator upgrade. If you listen to regular music, and aren't at 100% of your system's potential, you'll be fine.
KEY NOTE
RMS speaker power vs Maximum power
RMS (average power is more correct) simply means that it's the amount of heat (expressed in power) that can be dissipated by that speaker's design. A microwave oven is about 800W...so that's as much heat as your speaker can dissipate.
Max power, this deals with the physical distance you can expect your speaker to move. ex: if 400W moves your speaker 1 inch, then 800W would move it 2 inches. Although you can overdrive the heat factor (400W) intermittently all day long, moving your speaker past it's mechanical limits will likely damage your speaker...provided it is rated accurately.
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 18:23:42
so if i keep it turned down until i get another alt i should be ok?
that makes it easy. i have been worrying for like 3 days if i am gonna be able to get the stuff i want. it is nice to know that i can get it, ill just have to wait for a bit to get a alt.
would i need another battery anytime?
swez on 11/8/2006 21:09:10
Right, just go easy on the bass when you hook up. If you see a little light dimming at idle speeds, not a big problem. However, if your light dim severely on big bass hits, dial back on your sub amp.
If you go with the 200A ALT and have a decent battery now, shold be good to go if you use the "Big 3 Upgrade" (#4 gage here) and 1/0 power line to amp. If the BAT is more than 3 winters old, it won't be long before you'll need to replace it. (A Optima Red Top, 750 CCA rated would be a very good option under the hood)
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 22:03:59
i am going to try to do the big 3 before i get my stuff so i wont have to worry about that. although im having trouble finding the wires, i know what they are, i just cant figure out which is which..
didnt you say there was a 200A alt for $160, where were you talking about?
swez on 11/9/2006 08:53:07
After looking at that site mentioned earlier, the stock replacement (105A) is $69.00. There are adders to that, depending on the power rating desired from a CS-130 case size. The 160A version was about $130.00 and the 200A model was ~$170.00 + S/H.
The wires you'll want to upgrade in the "Big 3" are:
1. ALT output lug to BAT + terminal
2. BAT ground to body ground
3. Engine block to body as additional ground
Use #4 wires (Minimum) for each and just leave the stock wires there and intact. For this large sub amp, #2 gage would be most appropriate for your upgrade kit. (Especially if you add a 4 channel amp too)
FYI: GM uses side mount BAT terminal post and molded connectors. You can get replacement terminal bolts with slightly longer shanks to accomodate additional wires and eye-loop crimp connectors at any decent auto parts stores. No need to cut off the OEM wiring connectors this way. (Cheap fix)
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/9/2006 15:50:45
well i have a 2001 cavalier so wouldnt i have to use the bottom line of alternators on that page?
swez on 11/9/2006 16:43:24
Contact them directly or via e-mail, give them the details of your vehicle and they will tell you which models fit and price.
Swez
also would running another battery parallel help at all with no h/o alt?
Replies (17)
swez on 11/7/2006 09:17:28
It all depends on how hard you push the amp/subs. At full power, this amp will demand some serious current and no, a stock electrical system will not keep up.
At full power this amp will draw over 100 amperes of current.
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/7/2006 15:40:25
me and my friend cant decide whether getting a new alt or getting another battery and running it parallel would help.
anonymous_a on 11/7/2006 19:27:01
Check this website out.They seem to have good deals on HO alternators.
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators-chevrolet-gmc-cavalier.html
swez on 11/7/2006 20:08:12
Well, the car needs about 50A's to run properly alone. Then add your 100A's for this sub amp and perhaps another 50A's for a solid 4 channel for mids/highs. That's 200A's right there.
Adding a 2nd BAT to the ALT, is like adding another electrical load to your over-taxed stock system. (10-25A additional loading) It's fine for short duration use a DB Drag test. However, if one is in the habit of bumpin his ride a lot at night and you have other high current things in use as well, (Heater blower, window defogger, headlights, Fog lights. ect...) idle speed output from a stock ALT is well below 105A's until the engine RPM is above 2000 RPM's. This is where a H.O. ALT really can help.
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/7/2006 23:36:55
i dont think ill be gettin a mid channel amp, so i wont have to worry about that...for now..
so if i get that amp, and get a 160A alt off that website, will i need another battery?
swez on 11/8/2006 00:22:42
Think ahead Luke! This sub amp will be so strong, it will totally drown out your mid/highs once it's all hooked up and pumpin strong bass dude.
I would strongly suggest the 200A model ALT. The price is about same and you can build off that with good reserve power for later. $170.00 for a 200A ALT is a very good deal here. Many others will charge well over $200.00. Figure about $1.50/ampere is a good price. Anything lower, (Like this one) is a very good deal !!!
Say good night Gracy,
Swez
A single good BAT under the hood should do the job and use 1/0 power feed wire and a 100/150 ANL fuse near the BAT too.
Victor on 11/8/2006 02:14:22
every ones talking about current draw... didnt anyone notice this in the first post....
"""""""""i want to get a hifonics bxi 1606d. run it at 1 ohm, 1600wrms, to 2 12" type-R's.""""""""""""
.......................................................................................................................
"""""""i need to know if that is going to be too much for my electrical system to handle..""""""""
luke, you even need to know how much power your subs will handle.......and what kinda pro-cons come with soo much extra power.... how to handle this extra juice.... wht kinda enclosure design needs to be implimented, how will it affect the over all sound response..
more power is more responsibility.... by the way.. those subs are 500wrms subs each..
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 08:24:40
type-r's can take 1kw daily, people do it. alpine underrated these subs.
if it does drown out the bass, i will just turn it down or get some better mids/highs.
swez on 11/8/2006 09:24:04
Yeah, Alpine SWR's are rated at 500 watts RMS and 1000 peak. We look at the RMS power handling of the subs and RMS power of the amp output at a given load. (Speake/sub ohmic load)
A stock HU can deliver about 8 -15 watts RMS of clean audio power to attached speakers. Stock speakers are usually limited to ~15 watts RMS per channel.
Aftermarket HU's can deliver 18 - 22 watts RMS per channel. Not bad for a daily driver and the average listener who justs wants some background audio as they commute. (Music and Talk Radio) A serious audio buff usually demands a lot more fidelity and power when upgrading a given system.
FYI: Your subs will produce about 135-140dB of bass SPL as mentioned. At best a good Aftermarket HU and very efficient speakers can deliver about 100dB of clean SPL. Not bad for the average listener. But look at the SPL differential here (A spread of 10 -15 dB is pretty well balanced) However, a 20dB or more spread between Mid/Highs and subs are pretty extreme and very unbalanced. (Very bass heavy)
Yes, some guys like lots of bass when they want to show off a bit. However, if the goal is plenty of clean SPL at all ranges, adding full range amping power will bridge that gap.
Your call,
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 16:36:16
so it will probably be bass heavy even when the subs are in the trunk? a separate cabin from the front?
MrBrownstone on 11/8/2006 17:59:04
There are a lot of variables missing in the mix, but I'm glad you are asking these questions now rather than when you have already installed everything.
When an amplifier is rated at 1000W, that means at it's maximum output. When an amplifier's fuse rating is 100A, that means that it expects to consume 100A as a maximum.
The good news is that our car audio systems aren't putting out a constant amount of power...it depends upon how loud you are playing the system, and the music you are putting through it. A kick drum is a sudden boom, then it is gone. The amount of current it consumes is momentary, then back to zero again.
When you system is quiet, the 'idle current' is the amount of power your amplifier is consuming. This is like the amount of gasoline your car is using at idle. Just being on, I'd say 2 to 3A of current.
When you go from idle to 10W, the amount of additional current probably doesn't even change more than 1/2 an amp. However, when you get to 1000W, it's going to be quite intense, and over 100A is not unrealistic....for about 1/4 of a second.
Keep in mind, if you are banging your system hard to regular music (not burp tones), the likelyhood that you are using 100A for more than 1/4 of each second is next to none. Although your lights will likely dim when you hammer the output, most of the time, your amplifier is doing nothing.
If you use your system at full output 100% of the time, you'll need an alternator upgrade. If you listen to regular music, and aren't at 100% of your system's potential, you'll be fine.
KEY NOTE
RMS speaker power vs Maximum power
RMS (average power is more correct) simply means that it's the amount of heat (expressed in power) that can be dissipated by that speaker's design. A microwave oven is about 800W...so that's as much heat as your speaker can dissipate.
Max power, this deals with the physical distance you can expect your speaker to move. ex: if 400W moves your speaker 1 inch, then 800W would move it 2 inches. Although you can overdrive the heat factor (400W) intermittently all day long, moving your speaker past it's mechanical limits will likely damage your speaker...provided it is rated accurately.
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 18:23:42
so if i keep it turned down until i get another alt i should be ok?
that makes it easy. i have been worrying for like 3 days if i am gonna be able to get the stuff i want. it is nice to know that i can get it, ill just have to wait for a bit to get a alt.
would i need another battery anytime?
swez on 11/8/2006 21:09:10
Right, just go easy on the bass when you hook up. If you see a little light dimming at idle speeds, not a big problem. However, if your light dim severely on big bass hits, dial back on your sub amp.
If you go with the 200A ALT and have a decent battery now, shold be good to go if you use the "Big 3 Upgrade" (#4 gage here) and 1/0 power line to amp. If the BAT is more than 3 winters old, it won't be long before you'll need to replace it. (A Optima Red Top, 750 CCA rated would be a very good option under the hood)
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/8/2006 22:03:59
i am going to try to do the big 3 before i get my stuff so i wont have to worry about that. although im having trouble finding the wires, i know what they are, i just cant figure out which is which..
didnt you say there was a 200A alt for $160, where were you talking about?
swez on 11/9/2006 08:53:07
After looking at that site mentioned earlier, the stock replacement (105A) is $69.00. There are adders to that, depending on the power rating desired from a CS-130 case size. The 160A version was about $130.00 and the 200A model was ~$170.00 + S/H.
The wires you'll want to upgrade in the "Big 3" are:
1. ALT output lug to BAT + terminal
2. BAT ground to body ground
3. Engine block to body as additional ground
Use #4 wires (Minimum) for each and just leave the stock wires there and intact. For this large sub amp, #2 gage would be most appropriate for your upgrade kit. (Especially if you add a 4 channel amp too)
FYI: GM uses side mount BAT terminal post and molded connectors. You can get replacement terminal bolts with slightly longer shanks to accomodate additional wires and eye-loop crimp connectors at any decent auto parts stores. No need to cut off the OEM wiring connectors this way. (Cheap fix)
Swez
lukeduke28 on 11/9/2006 15:50:45
well i have a 2001 cavalier so wouldnt i have to use the bottom line of alternators on that page?
swez on 11/9/2006 16:43:24
Contact them directly or via e-mail, give them the details of your vehicle and they will tell you which models fit and price.
Swez
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