I have an 05 extended cab f-150, I raised the rear seat 2"
and built an enclosure for 2 12" subs the box fitts perfict under the seat but the Low bass dosnt hit like it should
if you turn the bass up or when it should be hitting it sounds
like its just vibrating or the sound is almost hollow
if the radio is on some country music at medium volume
it will shake the rearview mirror but once the radio is turned up
the bass stops hitting, at first I had each sub in its own space then i drilled two 2" holes so they share the same space and that made it worse, I dont know if im making any sense but if yall know what the problem is or how i can fix it would shure help out cause im all out of ideas? CHRIS...
Replies (7)
swez on 10/14/2006 10:23:40
After reading this a few times, it dawned on me... he has good bass at low-meduim volume and bass goes away at high volume setting...
Is that what you were trying to say? There are a couple of things that can cause this. But before getting out a grocery check list, tell us what subs, amp (make and model #'s) you have now and are you using a factory radio or an aftermarket replacement? (make & model too)
Comment please,
swez
PS Initially, it sound like your amplifier may be running out of gas, (reaching peak performance) before you want it to. A ;ow power amplifier will act like this. But, will wait for your responses before going deeper in the diagnostics tree...
Xtremeoffroader on 10/14/2006 14:24:36
the subs are Sony Xplod XS-L1230 (the red round ones from wal-mart) Frequency response 20hz - 3000hz Rated power 150w
Impedance 4ohms max imput power 450w
and the amp is a sony XM-604eqx
however i ran a PowerAcoustic Pa2-520 power series
with similar results
the inside of the box is 15x13x5.5 for each speaker
and i am using the factory head unit w/6disc cd changer
and i am using the speaker level imputs on the amp
swez on 10/14/2006 15:44:56
Should give decent bass with that, but not going to knock you out of the truck either right?
1. OK, factory HU speaker lines feeding the amp inputs...(Check)
2. The speaker tap inputs are of correct polarity
3. One sub per channel right? (best/safest way)
4. Amp gain set at halfway point initially (Adjust as needed to get cleanest, loudest bass at HU volume settings of ~60% of max volume)
5. The Low pass filter (LPF) is used and set between 80-100 Hz.
OK, try these initial set points and see if you can improve initial results. Your factory HU "may have" a power limit circuit on it. The louder we dial up the volume, at some point the HU enables power sensing circuits and automatically cuts power to speakers. Older Ford HU's do not have this feature, so it may just be amp gain setting issues.
The other option here, may be that your amp is going into clipping protect mode early due to present gain settings. This will sometimes shut off the sub amp for a time and the subs will come back on when you dial back on HU volume. This can be adjusted via the amp gain control.
Finally, on this amp/sub combo, run it in 2 channel mode only. That's one sub per channel. DO NOT bridge amp to MONO, unless you first wire the subs in series for an 8 ohm load.
Try these and report your findings OK?
swez
Xtremeoffroader on 10/14/2006 16:46:07
when i first hooked it up I turned the bass setting off on the HU
and turned the gains down on the amp then slowly adjusted it with the radio at half volume until it sounded good, but I had the problems when I turn the bass up on the radio or turn the radio up
the amp is a 4 channel amp and I did have left and right bridged
I just now hooked it up in 2 channel mode and it cleaned up the sound alittle but It still dosnt hit, I think the best way to describe the speaker sound is like the lowrider cars when they arent properly seald and the trunk is vibrating, thats the sound the speaker is making when you turn it up and at medium volume it dosnt go through the full range of bass and some of the bass comes out a little higher pitch than it should.
Is there a way to check if maybe its the Box? if it isnt big enough
or if there is a leak will that affect it? and how can i Check?
oh and the speaker tap inputs are the correct polarity
swez on 10/14/2006 17:32:19
QUOTE: "I turned the bass setting off on the HU and turned the gains down on the amp then slowly adjusted it with the radio at half volume until it sounded good, but I had the problems when I turn the bass up on the radio or turn the radio up".
This tells us the amp is clipping as you added more bass at the HU. As the amp starts to overload with bass, it will begin to clip and sound weak and very distorted.
Yes, bridging down to 2 channels is correct. (but do not go to full MONO bridging here)
The amps LPF should be set between 80-100 Hz. This allows only bass to pass and no vocals and other mids will pass.
If subs are in a leaky sealed box, they can get pretty squirrly at high output. This is due to a leaky box and the subs don't have enough air pressure inside, to keep the cones from breaking up.
We can use a "smoke test" to detect leaks in a box or just feel for air that gets pushed out of a leaky spot and seal them as located with silicone sealant or foam gasket materials around the sub mounting lips. With a good pre-fab box, this should not be an issue.
However, if it's a home brew box and all joints, seams and termination cups were not sealed properly, or the sub holes are over sized, they can leak very badly and cause trounle at higher listening levels. (cones will break up and sound very sloppy)
SMOKE TEST:
1. Light up a cheap cigar until you get a good plume of smoke going
2. Turn up the bass power to your sub box
3. Pass the smoking cigar around all joints, sub rims and termination cups
If you note the smoke plume is getting blown around, (or gets sucked into the box) in certain areas as you test, good chance there's a leak there. Put a piece of masking tape there to mark it for later repair.
The holes you made in the divider board were not the best/worst idea. However, the box should still work well enough at low-medium volume levels as long as both subs are in good working condition. This is like using 1 larger box to contain both subs. What's more important here, is that the subs are in a uable range for the subs used.
The box dimensions noted, net about 0.6 cf/sub for internal airspace. This is very small for most 12's and I would expect Sony to spec a sealed box range of 0.9 -1.1 cf (Internal) per sub. A small sealed box is fine for power handling. But as for deep bass performance, a larger box will bring out better deep lows. If these subs came with sepc sheets and enclosure recommendations, have a look as a 0.6 cf sealed, seems very small for any decent low bass here.
FYI: Sony makes very good Home electronics products like radios, I-pods, TV's and computers. However, in all but the upper lines of car audio gear, they are well below par in performance, quality and horribly expensive for what is offered. Also, getting tech support from Sony is like trying to bail out a large body of water... It just won't happen, no matter how we persist. Just look at their website and try to find product details and specs... A real mess!!!
Finally, consider using a better matched box for your subs. Low bass performance should be dramatically better in the long run. In the mean time, try adjusting your amp gains so that that the subs are getting clean power as you dial up HU volume and add a few dB of bass boost from the HU.
Whew... almost sorry I took this post on.... there seem to be several items working against you here. Am tying my best to cover all the key places to look at or fix.
Good luck and keep coming back as needed. We'll get ya better results if patience and persistance prevail.
swez
Xtremeoffroader on 10/14/2006 19:53:21
well thank you for your reply, I have a couple more ideas and I think
im going to go for more airspace firstthen work on the rest,
do you know of any decent 12"s that arent that deep, I only have
8" to work with under the seat and I dont want to settle like every one else for the 2 10"s or just 1- 12" from jl audio
again thanks for the help Chris
swez on 10/15/2006 05:24:33
Actually, the "D" part of your box is the main difficulty here.
A single 10-12" (4+4) DVC in a well designed ported compact enclosure should give you very good low bass performance. I have installed this one in a 05 Super Crew and it sounded amzingly clean and strong for a 10. With the rear seat down, it sounded very good. With the rear set up, it sounded great!!!
http://www.proboxrocks.com/ford/04upf150supercab.shtml
These come loaded or just the box. The woofer they shipped with the product was a "private lable" sub but handled a JL 500/1 w/o a sneeze too. Not a cheap setup, but if you want HT bass quality in a very small enclosure, this one delivers!
swez
PS You may find the need to use a different sub amp here. (Depending on sub impedence ratings) However, with some quality speakers in the doors and in back, you can use the 4 channel Sony amp to power these and still use the stock HU w/ a good set of Line Out Convertors. (LOC's) Think long term quality and budgeting if you want to go this route. The end results could be stunning with time and careful attention to details. ;-)
and built an enclosure for 2 12" subs the box fitts perfict under the seat but the Low bass dosnt hit like it should
if you turn the bass up or when it should be hitting it sounds
like its just vibrating or the sound is almost hollow
if the radio is on some country music at medium volume
it will shake the rearview mirror but once the radio is turned up
the bass stops hitting, at first I had each sub in its own space then i drilled two 2" holes so they share the same space and that made it worse, I dont know if im making any sense but if yall know what the problem is or how i can fix it would shure help out cause im all out of ideas? CHRIS...
Replies (7)
swez on 10/14/2006 10:23:40
After reading this a few times, it dawned on me... he has good bass at low-meduim volume and bass goes away at high volume setting...
Is that what you were trying to say? There are a couple of things that can cause this. But before getting out a grocery check list, tell us what subs, amp (make and model #'s) you have now and are you using a factory radio or an aftermarket replacement? (make & model too)
Comment please,
swez
PS Initially, it sound like your amplifier may be running out of gas, (reaching peak performance) before you want it to. A ;ow power amplifier will act like this. But, will wait for your responses before going deeper in the diagnostics tree...
Xtremeoffroader on 10/14/2006 14:24:36
the subs are Sony Xplod XS-L1230 (the red round ones from wal-mart) Frequency response 20hz - 3000hz Rated power 150w
Impedance 4ohms max imput power 450w
and the amp is a sony XM-604eqx
however i ran a PowerAcoustic Pa2-520 power series
with similar results
the inside of the box is 15x13x5.5 for each speaker
and i am using the factory head unit w/6disc cd changer
and i am using the speaker level imputs on the amp
swez on 10/14/2006 15:44:56
Should give decent bass with that, but not going to knock you out of the truck either right?
1. OK, factory HU speaker lines feeding the amp inputs...(Check)
2. The speaker tap inputs are of correct polarity
3. One sub per channel right? (best/safest way)
4. Amp gain set at halfway point initially (Adjust as needed to get cleanest, loudest bass at HU volume settings of ~60% of max volume)
5. The Low pass filter (LPF) is used and set between 80-100 Hz.
OK, try these initial set points and see if you can improve initial results. Your factory HU "may have" a power limit circuit on it. The louder we dial up the volume, at some point the HU enables power sensing circuits and automatically cuts power to speakers. Older Ford HU's do not have this feature, so it may just be amp gain setting issues.
The other option here, may be that your amp is going into clipping protect mode early due to present gain settings. This will sometimes shut off the sub amp for a time and the subs will come back on when you dial back on HU volume. This can be adjusted via the amp gain control.
Finally, on this amp/sub combo, run it in 2 channel mode only. That's one sub per channel. DO NOT bridge amp to MONO, unless you first wire the subs in series for an 8 ohm load.
Try these and report your findings OK?
swez
Xtremeoffroader on 10/14/2006 16:46:07
when i first hooked it up I turned the bass setting off on the HU
and turned the gains down on the amp then slowly adjusted it with the radio at half volume until it sounded good, but I had the problems when I turn the bass up on the radio or turn the radio up
the amp is a 4 channel amp and I did have left and right bridged
I just now hooked it up in 2 channel mode and it cleaned up the sound alittle but It still dosnt hit, I think the best way to describe the speaker sound is like the lowrider cars when they arent properly seald and the trunk is vibrating, thats the sound the speaker is making when you turn it up and at medium volume it dosnt go through the full range of bass and some of the bass comes out a little higher pitch than it should.
Is there a way to check if maybe its the Box? if it isnt big enough
or if there is a leak will that affect it? and how can i Check?
oh and the speaker tap inputs are the correct polarity
swez on 10/14/2006 17:32:19
QUOTE: "I turned the bass setting off on the HU and turned the gains down on the amp then slowly adjusted it with the radio at half volume until it sounded good, but I had the problems when I turn the bass up on the radio or turn the radio up".
This tells us the amp is clipping as you added more bass at the HU. As the amp starts to overload with bass, it will begin to clip and sound weak and very distorted.
Yes, bridging down to 2 channels is correct. (but do not go to full MONO bridging here)
The amps LPF should be set between 80-100 Hz. This allows only bass to pass and no vocals and other mids will pass.
If subs are in a leaky sealed box, they can get pretty squirrly at high output. This is due to a leaky box and the subs don't have enough air pressure inside, to keep the cones from breaking up.
We can use a "smoke test" to detect leaks in a box or just feel for air that gets pushed out of a leaky spot and seal them as located with silicone sealant or foam gasket materials around the sub mounting lips. With a good pre-fab box, this should not be an issue.
However, if it's a home brew box and all joints, seams and termination cups were not sealed properly, or the sub holes are over sized, they can leak very badly and cause trounle at higher listening levels. (cones will break up and sound very sloppy)
SMOKE TEST:
1. Light up a cheap cigar until you get a good plume of smoke going
2. Turn up the bass power to your sub box
3. Pass the smoking cigar around all joints, sub rims and termination cups
If you note the smoke plume is getting blown around, (or gets sucked into the box) in certain areas as you test, good chance there's a leak there. Put a piece of masking tape there to mark it for later repair.
The holes you made in the divider board were not the best/worst idea. However, the box should still work well enough at low-medium volume levels as long as both subs are in good working condition. This is like using 1 larger box to contain both subs. What's more important here, is that the subs are in a uable range for the subs used.
The box dimensions noted, net about 0.6 cf/sub for internal airspace. This is very small for most 12's and I would expect Sony to spec a sealed box range of 0.9 -1.1 cf (Internal) per sub. A small sealed box is fine for power handling. But as for deep bass performance, a larger box will bring out better deep lows. If these subs came with sepc sheets and enclosure recommendations, have a look as a 0.6 cf sealed, seems very small for any decent low bass here.
FYI: Sony makes very good Home electronics products like radios, I-pods, TV's and computers. However, in all but the upper lines of car audio gear, they are well below par in performance, quality and horribly expensive for what is offered. Also, getting tech support from Sony is like trying to bail out a large body of water... It just won't happen, no matter how we persist. Just look at their website and try to find product details and specs... A real mess!!!
Finally, consider using a better matched box for your subs. Low bass performance should be dramatically better in the long run. In the mean time, try adjusting your amp gains so that that the subs are getting clean power as you dial up HU volume and add a few dB of bass boost from the HU.
Whew... almost sorry I took this post on.... there seem to be several items working against you here. Am tying my best to cover all the key places to look at or fix.
Good luck and keep coming back as needed. We'll get ya better results if patience and persistance prevail.
swez
Xtremeoffroader on 10/14/2006 19:53:21
well thank you for your reply, I have a couple more ideas and I think
im going to go for more airspace firstthen work on the rest,
do you know of any decent 12"s that arent that deep, I only have
8" to work with under the seat and I dont want to settle like every one else for the 2 10"s or just 1- 12" from jl audio
again thanks for the help Chris
swez on 10/15/2006 05:24:33
Actually, the "D" part of your box is the main difficulty here.
A single 10-12" (4+4) DVC in a well designed ported compact enclosure should give you very good low bass performance. I have installed this one in a 05 Super Crew and it sounded amzingly clean and strong for a 10. With the rear seat down, it sounded very good. With the rear set up, it sounded great!!!
http://www.proboxrocks.com/ford/04upf150supercab.shtml
These come loaded or just the box. The woofer they shipped with the product was a "private lable" sub but handled a JL 500/1 w/o a sneeze too. Not a cheap setup, but if you want HT bass quality in a very small enclosure, this one delivers!
swez
PS You may find the need to use a different sub amp here. (Depending on sub impedence ratings) However, with some quality speakers in the doors and in back, you can use the 4 channel Sony amp to power these and still use the stock HU w/ a good set of Line Out Convertors. (LOC's) Think long term quality and budgeting if you want to go this route. The end results could be stunning with time and careful attention to details. ;-)
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