I currently have two 4+4 DVC SoloBaric S12L7s, and i feel that i need more of a punch, so i was thinking about getting two more of these subs, but i think that with these subs ii can only do either 2 ohms mono bridged or 1 ohm stereo. Can this amp support 2 ohms mono bridged?
Is there any way i can run 4 S12L7s that are 4+4 DVC in either 2 ohms stereo, or 4 ohms mono? Right now i cant think of any possibilities. I think i might have to go with all 4 subs being 2+2 DVC. Unless it can support 2 ohms mono
these are the possibilities i think i have with these subs to this amp
one sub 4+4 = 8 \
----------------------------------4 Ohms
2nd sub 4+4 = 8 /
--------------------------------------2 ohms mono
3rd Sub 4+4 = 8 \
----------------------------------4 ohms
4th sub 4+4 = 8 /
OR
one sub 4+4 = 2 \
--------------------------------1 Ohm Stereo
2nd sub 4+4 = 2 /
3rd Sub 4+4 = 2 \
--------------------------------1 ohm Stereo
4th sub 4+4 = 2 /
Replies (35)
Victor on 10/11/2006 02:57:28
huh...!! theres kicker subs all over... but .. what amp are we talking about here...????????
swez on 10/11/2006 08:15:48
Got it and yes, that plan is what was mentioned in an earlier post. Either plan will work with your Eclipse Dual MONO amp.
Correction: US Amps, 2 channel, high current Class A/B amp.
Swez
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 13:41:14
No No No my amp is not an Eclipse dual mono amp. My amp is a Class A/B High Output 2,000 watt RMS two channel U.S.Amp
swez on 10/11/2006 17:42:15
OK.... wrong amp... right wiring plan... COFFEE
Same plan is correct for a Class A/B that is 1 ohm stable/ch and when bridged MONO, 2 ohms stable. You are good as shown for the US Amp design.
Sorry for the corn-fusion, GRIN
swez
Hummm, almost made a boo-boo... and it's not even Halloween yet!
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 18:42:55
Wait so you're saying that for sure my USAMP can support 1 ohm per channel, and it is stalbe at 2 ohms mono bridged? WOW what kind of power would it push at 2 ohms mono? i mean its rated at 2,000 RMS at 4 ohms bridged. Would it double if i do 2 ohms bridged?
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 20:01:29
Well in an effort to save time and Money, i was also thinking would two S15L7s be good. I mean each one is 1,000 watts rms, i could just run 2 of these at either 4 ohms mono bridged or 2 ohm stereo? Any suggestions on what would be better or cheaper in price? if i go with 4 S12L7s i would need to buy 4 two ohm subs, but if i go with the 15's then all i need is to just buy two. thanks in advance
swez on 10/11/2006 20:30:26
Lemme double check the amp specs before you do anything OK?
Alright... am having a brain fart today... This amp states:
2 x 600W @ 4 ohms
2 x 1000W @ 2 ohms
1 x 2000W @ 4 ohms bridged
Very strong amp at 2 ohms per channel or bridged MONO @ 4 ohms.
A pair of 12's or 15's are plenty good. Used the 4+4 DVC's for a net of 2 ohms/channel or 4 ohms bridged. (series/ parallel)
Comments?
swez
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 20:48:43
yeah i got that part, but what would be better two S15L7s pulling a total power output of the complete 2,000 watts RMS or four 12 L7s
swez on 10/11/2006 21:45:06
OK, now I have no distractions and can devote more time to your proposed build.
Both the Kicker L712/L715's are rated at 750 watts RMS per each. They can take more clean power if you use it judiciously. (with intelligence) The box required for either of them is very substantial when using ported enclosures and if you go sealed, they can take more power, but remain very clean, crisp and go deep too.
The questions one needs to answer here...
1. How much space can I allocate to a subwoofer enclosure?
2. What is my bass preference? (SPL boomer or SQL and highly accurate)
3. Do I have the skills, time and patience to make such enclosures as needed or the $$$ to buy a custom fab box?
**************************************************************************
This amp can deliver a clean 2000 watts RMS when bridged @ 4 ohms or 1000 RMS/channel @ 2 ohms in 2 channel mode. We agree on that now and it's very clear what the options will be yes? This amp has plenty of reserve power for a pair of SB subs and some headroom to keep the signal very clean yet strong. It also consumes a huge amount of current at full power, but we don't run it that way all day long. (At least I hope not, or you'll be deaf in a few months)
**************************************************************************
All you need are two SB's here. This is plenty for a daily driver and if you wat to compete, just stick to the right class and see how well it does. (Use a pair of 4+4 DVC's here)
Going to 4 subs, would be a huge project and to get the absolute max from them, you'll want 2 amps and 4 subs. These subs require a large enclosure for max SPL/Vented applictions. (6.0 cf/sub + port and sub displacements) That makes each box close to 8.0 cf per sub and very heavy too. Does it make sense to haul all that around, not to mention the electrical upgrades needed? (Taking $2,000 for upgrades, give or take)
OK, based on these insights, what are your preferences here? (In detail)
swez
cecilio87 on 10/12/2006 00:07:04
ok
1. space is pretty much not an issue, all i know is that i can't have over 8 cf of boxes.
2. SPL is DEFINATLY my bass preference.
3. I do not yet have the skills to make these enclosures, but yeah i can pay for the box.
4. I would not need anymore electrical upgrades, as i now have a 260 amp alternator and it is rated 155 amps at idle. I did the big three upgrade, and i am using zero gague wire from the bat to the amp.
5. I can get two S15L7s for about 450 total, and a custom fab box for 150 which equals $600. I have a person intrested in buying my two 12's in box for $450, so i would really only be paying about 150 for my upgrade.
6. If i do get the 15's, then i would run them each at a 2 ohm load and wire them as 2 ohm stereo giving each sub 1,000 watts rms.
7. the S15L7s are 1,000 watts rms and 2,000 peak (so this seems like a perfect match for this amplifier.
8. My music of Preferance is Rap, hip-hop, and some R&B. *mainly rap*
9. I would much prefer a vented box over a sealed to yield maximum dbs
10. According to Kicker, when in vented box the 15L7s will push 750 watts rms, while the 12 will only push 600 watts rms
swez on 10/12/2006 05:14:59
Now here's a guy who knows what he wants and spells it out in plain terms... I like this! Woofer specs and enclosure recommedations:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/206/2066S10L7.PDF
The 3.0 cf + vent/sub displacements are probably your best bet as a pair of these will net about 8 cf externally. See page 4 app notes for details. The poor guy who is building the enclosure for you, will be taking this one at just about cost of materials. ($150.00) If he does it right and you are very happy about the work.... pay him a bonus as this is a very low price for a box of this level.
From what I see so far, the enclosure and install are the keys to your ultimate success. The subs can handle substantial power and this amp can deliver it too. Your electricals are also up to the task as noted.
Just be sure to break the subs in and use an IFS filter of 25-30 Hz. This will protect your woofers and keep them sounding strong and full of deep bass, after breakin period.
You have the details you need and a solid game plan. Pull the trigger and get started when ready.
swez
PS With this much bass, I hope you plan to use adequate matting inside the vehicle to limit panel rattles and undue resonances.
cecilio87 on 10/12/2006 12:31:51
Well you know what, i think i might be able to spare the 12 cubic feet. so if i do have that kind of room, do you think i should go with 6 cf per 15' woofer? this is the Vented SPL Deep BASS. Yeah last time this guy made me a 6.25 cf box for the two 12 kickers i have and it is very very solidly constrtucted with carpeting and everything. so yeah i might give him some extra money for these 12 ;)
swez on 10/12/2006 21:45:14
Yep, he's really building a very large enclosure for just over cost of materials here. If the guy does a good job, reward his skill, time and experience.
Kicker's love a huge box for high SPL apps. I have demo'd a pair of the early Solo 15's in huge vented enclosures and they kicked very hard. Each sub was in a separate enclosure of 5-6 cf and tuned very low. They were each powered with a Kicker 750.1 amps and when he cranked up the bass, things started falling off the walls in the demo room and light fixtures in the ceiling, fell out of their mounts. (Hehe)
swez
cecilio87 on 10/13/2006 03:20:10
WOW I WISH MY SYSTEM COULD DO THAT ;). Do you have any pictures of that set-up? thats what i would wanna do. Can u go into detail in alternator size, what gague, how many batteries...
swez on 10/13/2006 12:22:44
No can do on the pics as this was several years ago, when Kicker first introduced the Solobaric I series. This was a pretty good size room too.
30' x 16' x 7' dropped tile ceilings. Even the regular tiles on the ceiling were falling down on the floor as he cranked up the bass. My pant legs were fluttering and I could feel the deep bass hits in my chest at some 8 feet away too.
Yeah, your bass will be equally impressive when all the banging and tweaking are done. The only issue you might find, is the bass is well contained in a vehicle. This builds SPL naturally, but may cause low bass to rolloff a bit as waves are compressed inside a smaller vehicle.
swez
cecilio87 on 10/13/2006 14:51:38
lets say i was to do the two 15's on one box that is about 12 or 13 cu/f, should it have two ports, or what would be the best thing two separate boxes or what? plus wouldn't the four 12's be better as im moving more air space?
swez on 10/13/2006 18:18:07
If using dual chambers, (one for each sub) yes... each chamber has its own port.
A lot of SPL guys will opt for a wall of woofers approach. Here, they install a large sheet of MDF either vertically or horizontally, (depending on the vehicle) and then shroud each woofer in its own enclosure airspace. If vents or porting is used, each box has its own vent/port.
The value in doing this is obvious. All subs are in the same vertical or horizontal plane and adjacent bass waves have additive effects on the woofers as a whole. (Time & phase alignments are very good this way)
FYI: The best way to get high SPL numbers are power applied and cone area that is pushing the air. Yes, many subs in an array look cool and all, but if they are not time and phase aligned correctly, we actually lose SPL due to cancellations. Some of the cleanest and loudest SPL installs use only 1-2 subs and plenty of amping power.
Have you ever heard a small cabin truck sounding off with very strong bass? Well, they can do this with only 1-2 woofers in perfect time and phase alignment.
I have heard several single woofer system in some vehicles and one would swear they used a bank of amps and a bunch of subs. Then we looked inside.... hummm, all that bass from a single 12/15 or dual 10's huh? "Yup"!
Did you design this system? "Nope... I had all this done by a very good shop and it cost me about $2,800.
What ya got in there for amps and sub(s)? "I dunno... just paid this shop $$$$.00 bucks and have no idea what they put in here. Sounds OK though huh"? Yeah, they did ya well bro. NEXT !!!
swez
cecilio87 on 10/13/2006 19:00:08
So then more subs isn't always better due to cancellation right? If i would do the four S12L7s, i would have them in a wall. like i have an ext cab and it has no back seat anymore. so i would just have the whole entire back seat being mdf box 2 subs on top and 2 subs on bottom. would that still cause cancellation as they aren't being faced in different directions or in v shapes?
swez on 10/13/2006 21:58:51
This is correct.
However, don't forget the kicker 12L7 likes a big enclosure too. A quad of 2.75 - 3.0 cf/sub + vent displacement, is a very big set of boxes back there. A pair of large 4" dia rounds/segment, might cut space to a managable area too. Vents with long tuning baffles, really eat up box space fast.
» sealed box volume: 0.88-2.00 cubic feet
» ported box volume: 1.75-3.25 cu. ft.
swez
cecilio87 on 10/14/2006 11:08:00
it really is true that 12L7s take up too much space, but its better than one 15 taking up 6 c/f for max spl according to kickers specs. Hmmm what would Four 15's sound like....hmmmm
swez on 10/14/2006 11:38:38
If they get enough amping power.... can you imagine thunder from the trunk or bedliner? That's what is likely. (hehe)
Seriously though, if you went with 4 x 12's, that's a lot of box space, maybe a 2nd amp and a major electrical upgrade. In SPL Comps, that does make sense. However, for a solid daily driver with some serious reserve bass power, dual 15's are a very good choice... even if you choose to compete at times.
Swez
cecilio87 on 10/14/2006 11:46:23
well in actuality, if you have a 12 in a max spl box, it only needs 600 watts rms to reach its peak or near peak performance. my amp is 2,000 watts rms so it wouldn't be far behind, probably getting 500 rms per sub at least. the USAmp is majorly underrated too so i would probably get all the necessary wattage needed.
swez on 10/14/2006 15:46:51
I'd have to agree... you have plenty of amping power available for most any subs out there today.
swez
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 13:52:52
Thats right ;). I figure spend alot now and save a lot later. This is not the situation for my subs though i always like to save money, but then i see something better and i have to spend more money. its kind of a hassle. I'm thinking of just going with two Rockford Fosgate T215s. Vented i think they require only about 2.5 cu/f per sub which is NOTHING AT ALL. i mean im sure these guys can thump. Lately i have been trying to spend as much money now to not have to do it again later, so i upgraded ALL MY ELECTRICALS, and i have a good amp, now all i need is good subs and i really really really need some components, but thats the least of my worries for now. For subs im thinking i can either get four S15L7s, or Two MTX 9515's or Two Rockford Fosgate T215s. I hear JL W7s are good, but the MTXs seem to knock em' off the water specs wise.
swez on 10/15/2006 14:18:57
Have a serious look at the Orion H2 series subs. These are very strong, can take 2KW's per sub, very efficient and do well in compact ported enclosures: (10, 12 and 15's)
http://www.orioncaraudio.com/subwoofers/sub_H2_series.asp
Yes, they are expensive, but some careful shopping is sure to bring the price down to a managable range. Note the low tuning specs and compact enclosure recommenations for this H2 series... this is one "rock the block" subwoofer bud!
http://www99.shopping.com/xPC-Orion_Orion_H2_15D2_15_Competition_Subwoofer
swez
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 14:49:36
Wow it does seem very impressive. The wattage this sub handles far surpasses the MTX 9500 and the Rockford Fosgate T2s. Plus the price is not really that much. How much do the Orions retail for? I like this sub because it has more linear excursion than most other subs. Would one of these be enough to blow you away or would two be an amazing difference?
Victor on 10/15/2006 15:13:54
http://cerwinvega.com/products/pdf/mobile/strokerpromanual.pdf
Dave's gonna smile at this suggestion...:GRIN
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 16:02:12
Hmm seems pretty sturdy, but a bit out of my price range. Do you think it is much better than the Orion H2s? I kind of like the look of the H2s better.
swez on 10/15/2006 18:06:05
One H2's would be sufficient and adequate for the AX-2000 amp. It can take all the power if you wanted one super sub in a relatively small enclosure. The retail on the 15 is about $699.00/iea.
Victor's suggest is a good one as well. But retail on them is much higher as I recall. Seems to me, dealer cost was about $700.00. A good deal at a retail shop would be about $1,000.00.
Swez
PS If using 2 H2's, each powered at 1000 watts RMS, it would be a wash VS one H2 powered at 2000 RMS. If 2 subs used and each was amped at 2000 RMS, you'd get about +3 to +5 dB more. (Assuming your electricals could handle that much power draw... over 5KW woth of draw with both amps at full power) That's insane to me.
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 18:55:52
So you're saying that one H2 at full power is my best option next to buying another amp and another H2. Well not just a best option, but you're saying it would be insane just like that alone? How many DBs would one 12 H2 hit? would it be more than two S15L7s? oh and another thing is this sub just for spl, or is it pretty musical too? thanks in advance. ur the best swez
swez on 10/15/2006 19:34:54
A single H2 12 or 15 in a well matted (minimal leaks and vibrations) vehicle, would probably hit well into the 150's.
Kicker's do hit hard to be sure. But when you look at the cost, net efficiencies, enclosure space and power needed to run them, that's insanity. But one H2 in the right box, and enough power.... it will sound like a live bass player and drummer in your truck. (low end stuff that is)
It took me a while to remember that H2 as an option. They were on sale at one point, about a year ago. Seems like they were getting blown out for well under $300.00 at Car Domain then.
swez
PS This sub is very well made and depending on the enclosure and tuning used, it can be all SPL or a solid SQL bass engine. ;-)
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 20:21:02
wow thats badass. What size box do you think it should be. I want it to have a HARD THUMP. what freq should i set it as and how many cu/ft should the box be?
swez on 10/16/2006 08:52:16
I would suggest contacting Orion Tech Service and ask them for a copy of the manual and sealed/vented specs for this sub.
http://www.orioncaraudio.com/contacts/default.asp
swez
cecilio87 on 10/16/2006 10:49:42
Yeah i think im going to do that because on the page it shows a few recommended enclosures, but for the 12 H2 it says only 1 cu ft vented and that seems really weird to me so im gonna get the manual. thanks swez
swez on 10/16/2006 12:38:37
Good idea.... wish I'd thought of that sooner.
swez
Is there any way i can run 4 S12L7s that are 4+4 DVC in either 2 ohms stereo, or 4 ohms mono? Right now i cant think of any possibilities. I think i might have to go with all 4 subs being 2+2 DVC. Unless it can support 2 ohms mono
these are the possibilities i think i have with these subs to this amp
one sub 4+4 = 8 \
----------------------------------4 Ohms
2nd sub 4+4 = 8 /
--------------------------------------2 ohms mono
3rd Sub 4+4 = 8 \
----------------------------------4 ohms
4th sub 4+4 = 8 /
OR
one sub 4+4 = 2 \
--------------------------------1 Ohm Stereo
2nd sub 4+4 = 2 /
3rd Sub 4+4 = 2 \
--------------------------------1 ohm Stereo
4th sub 4+4 = 2 /
Replies (35)
Victor on 10/11/2006 02:57:28
huh...!! theres kicker subs all over... but .. what amp are we talking about here...????????
swez on 10/11/2006 08:15:48
Got it and yes, that plan is what was mentioned in an earlier post. Either plan will work with your Eclipse Dual MONO amp.
Correction: US Amps, 2 channel, high current Class A/B amp.
Swez
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 13:41:14
No No No my amp is not an Eclipse dual mono amp. My amp is a Class A/B High Output 2,000 watt RMS two channel U.S.Amp
swez on 10/11/2006 17:42:15
OK.... wrong amp... right wiring plan... COFFEE
Same plan is correct for a Class A/B that is 1 ohm stable/ch and when bridged MONO, 2 ohms stable. You are good as shown for the US Amp design.
Sorry for the corn-fusion, GRIN
swez
Hummm, almost made a boo-boo... and it's not even Halloween yet!
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 18:42:55
Wait so you're saying that for sure my USAMP can support 1 ohm per channel, and it is stalbe at 2 ohms mono bridged? WOW what kind of power would it push at 2 ohms mono? i mean its rated at 2,000 RMS at 4 ohms bridged. Would it double if i do 2 ohms bridged?
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 20:01:29
Well in an effort to save time and Money, i was also thinking would two S15L7s be good. I mean each one is 1,000 watts rms, i could just run 2 of these at either 4 ohms mono bridged or 2 ohm stereo? Any suggestions on what would be better or cheaper in price? if i go with 4 S12L7s i would need to buy 4 two ohm subs, but if i go with the 15's then all i need is to just buy two. thanks in advance
swez on 10/11/2006 20:30:26
Lemme double check the amp specs before you do anything OK?
Alright... am having a brain fart today... This amp states:
2 x 600W @ 4 ohms
2 x 1000W @ 2 ohms
1 x 2000W @ 4 ohms bridged
Very strong amp at 2 ohms per channel or bridged MONO @ 4 ohms.
A pair of 12's or 15's are plenty good. Used the 4+4 DVC's for a net of 2 ohms/channel or 4 ohms bridged. (series/ parallel)
Comments?
swez
cecilio87 on 10/11/2006 20:48:43
yeah i got that part, but what would be better two S15L7s pulling a total power output of the complete 2,000 watts RMS or four 12 L7s
swez on 10/11/2006 21:45:06
OK, now I have no distractions and can devote more time to your proposed build.
Both the Kicker L712/L715's are rated at 750 watts RMS per each. They can take more clean power if you use it judiciously. (with intelligence) The box required for either of them is very substantial when using ported enclosures and if you go sealed, they can take more power, but remain very clean, crisp and go deep too.
The questions one needs to answer here...
1. How much space can I allocate to a subwoofer enclosure?
2. What is my bass preference? (SPL boomer or SQL and highly accurate)
3. Do I have the skills, time and patience to make such enclosures as needed or the $$$ to buy a custom fab box?
**************************************************************************
This amp can deliver a clean 2000 watts RMS when bridged @ 4 ohms or 1000 RMS/channel @ 2 ohms in 2 channel mode. We agree on that now and it's very clear what the options will be yes? This amp has plenty of reserve power for a pair of SB subs and some headroom to keep the signal very clean yet strong. It also consumes a huge amount of current at full power, but we don't run it that way all day long. (At least I hope not, or you'll be deaf in a few months)
**************************************************************************
All you need are two SB's here. This is plenty for a daily driver and if you wat to compete, just stick to the right class and see how well it does. (Use a pair of 4+4 DVC's here)
Going to 4 subs, would be a huge project and to get the absolute max from them, you'll want 2 amps and 4 subs. These subs require a large enclosure for max SPL/Vented applictions. (6.0 cf/sub + port and sub displacements) That makes each box close to 8.0 cf per sub and very heavy too. Does it make sense to haul all that around, not to mention the electrical upgrades needed? (Taking $2,000 for upgrades, give or take)
OK, based on these insights, what are your preferences here? (In detail)
swez
cecilio87 on 10/12/2006 00:07:04
ok
1. space is pretty much not an issue, all i know is that i can't have over 8 cf of boxes.
2. SPL is DEFINATLY my bass preference.
3. I do not yet have the skills to make these enclosures, but yeah i can pay for the box.
4. I would not need anymore electrical upgrades, as i now have a 260 amp alternator and it is rated 155 amps at idle. I did the big three upgrade, and i am using zero gague wire from the bat to the amp.
5. I can get two S15L7s for about 450 total, and a custom fab box for 150 which equals $600. I have a person intrested in buying my two 12's in box for $450, so i would really only be paying about 150 for my upgrade.
6. If i do get the 15's, then i would run them each at a 2 ohm load and wire them as 2 ohm stereo giving each sub 1,000 watts rms.
7. the S15L7s are 1,000 watts rms and 2,000 peak (so this seems like a perfect match for this amplifier.
8. My music of Preferance is Rap, hip-hop, and some R&B. *mainly rap*
9. I would much prefer a vented box over a sealed to yield maximum dbs
10. According to Kicker, when in vented box the 15L7s will push 750 watts rms, while the 12 will only push 600 watts rms
swez on 10/12/2006 05:14:59
Now here's a guy who knows what he wants and spells it out in plain terms... I like this! Woofer specs and enclosure recommedations:
http://akamaipix.crutchfield.com/Manuals/206/2066S10L7.PDF
The 3.0 cf + vent/sub displacements are probably your best bet as a pair of these will net about 8 cf externally. See page 4 app notes for details. The poor guy who is building the enclosure for you, will be taking this one at just about cost of materials. ($150.00) If he does it right and you are very happy about the work.... pay him a bonus as this is a very low price for a box of this level.
From what I see so far, the enclosure and install are the keys to your ultimate success. The subs can handle substantial power and this amp can deliver it too. Your electricals are also up to the task as noted.
Just be sure to break the subs in and use an IFS filter of 25-30 Hz. This will protect your woofers and keep them sounding strong and full of deep bass, after breakin period.
You have the details you need and a solid game plan. Pull the trigger and get started when ready.
swez
PS With this much bass, I hope you plan to use adequate matting inside the vehicle to limit panel rattles and undue resonances.
cecilio87 on 10/12/2006 12:31:51
Well you know what, i think i might be able to spare the 12 cubic feet. so if i do have that kind of room, do you think i should go with 6 cf per 15' woofer? this is the Vented SPL Deep BASS. Yeah last time this guy made me a 6.25 cf box for the two 12 kickers i have and it is very very solidly constrtucted with carpeting and everything. so yeah i might give him some extra money for these 12 ;)
swez on 10/12/2006 21:45:14
Yep, he's really building a very large enclosure for just over cost of materials here. If the guy does a good job, reward his skill, time and experience.
Kicker's love a huge box for high SPL apps. I have demo'd a pair of the early Solo 15's in huge vented enclosures and they kicked very hard. Each sub was in a separate enclosure of 5-6 cf and tuned very low. They were each powered with a Kicker 750.1 amps and when he cranked up the bass, things started falling off the walls in the demo room and light fixtures in the ceiling, fell out of their mounts. (Hehe)
swez
cecilio87 on 10/13/2006 03:20:10
WOW I WISH MY SYSTEM COULD DO THAT ;). Do you have any pictures of that set-up? thats what i would wanna do. Can u go into detail in alternator size, what gague, how many batteries...
swez on 10/13/2006 12:22:44
No can do on the pics as this was several years ago, when Kicker first introduced the Solobaric I series. This was a pretty good size room too.
30' x 16' x 7' dropped tile ceilings. Even the regular tiles on the ceiling were falling down on the floor as he cranked up the bass. My pant legs were fluttering and I could feel the deep bass hits in my chest at some 8 feet away too.
Yeah, your bass will be equally impressive when all the banging and tweaking are done. The only issue you might find, is the bass is well contained in a vehicle. This builds SPL naturally, but may cause low bass to rolloff a bit as waves are compressed inside a smaller vehicle.
swez
cecilio87 on 10/13/2006 14:51:38
lets say i was to do the two 15's on one box that is about 12 or 13 cu/f, should it have two ports, or what would be the best thing two separate boxes or what? plus wouldn't the four 12's be better as im moving more air space?
swez on 10/13/2006 18:18:07
If using dual chambers, (one for each sub) yes... each chamber has its own port.
A lot of SPL guys will opt for a wall of woofers approach. Here, they install a large sheet of MDF either vertically or horizontally, (depending on the vehicle) and then shroud each woofer in its own enclosure airspace. If vents or porting is used, each box has its own vent/port.
The value in doing this is obvious. All subs are in the same vertical or horizontal plane and adjacent bass waves have additive effects on the woofers as a whole. (Time & phase alignments are very good this way)
FYI: The best way to get high SPL numbers are power applied and cone area that is pushing the air. Yes, many subs in an array look cool and all, but if they are not time and phase aligned correctly, we actually lose SPL due to cancellations. Some of the cleanest and loudest SPL installs use only 1-2 subs and plenty of amping power.
Have you ever heard a small cabin truck sounding off with very strong bass? Well, they can do this with only 1-2 woofers in perfect time and phase alignment.
I have heard several single woofer system in some vehicles and one would swear they used a bank of amps and a bunch of subs. Then we looked inside.... hummm, all that bass from a single 12/15 or dual 10's huh? "Yup"!
Did you design this system? "Nope... I had all this done by a very good shop and it cost me about $2,800.
What ya got in there for amps and sub(s)? "I dunno... just paid this shop $$$$.00 bucks and have no idea what they put in here. Sounds OK though huh"? Yeah, they did ya well bro. NEXT !!!
swez
cecilio87 on 10/13/2006 19:00:08
So then more subs isn't always better due to cancellation right? If i would do the four S12L7s, i would have them in a wall. like i have an ext cab and it has no back seat anymore. so i would just have the whole entire back seat being mdf box 2 subs on top and 2 subs on bottom. would that still cause cancellation as they aren't being faced in different directions or in v shapes?
swez on 10/13/2006 21:58:51
This is correct.
However, don't forget the kicker 12L7 likes a big enclosure too. A quad of 2.75 - 3.0 cf/sub + vent displacement, is a very big set of boxes back there. A pair of large 4" dia rounds/segment, might cut space to a managable area too. Vents with long tuning baffles, really eat up box space fast.
» sealed box volume: 0.88-2.00 cubic feet
» ported box volume: 1.75-3.25 cu. ft.
swez
cecilio87 on 10/14/2006 11:08:00
it really is true that 12L7s take up too much space, but its better than one 15 taking up 6 c/f for max spl according to kickers specs. Hmmm what would Four 15's sound like....hmmmm
swez on 10/14/2006 11:38:38
If they get enough amping power.... can you imagine thunder from the trunk or bedliner? That's what is likely. (hehe)
Seriously though, if you went with 4 x 12's, that's a lot of box space, maybe a 2nd amp and a major electrical upgrade. In SPL Comps, that does make sense. However, for a solid daily driver with some serious reserve bass power, dual 15's are a very good choice... even if you choose to compete at times.
Swez
cecilio87 on 10/14/2006 11:46:23
well in actuality, if you have a 12 in a max spl box, it only needs 600 watts rms to reach its peak or near peak performance. my amp is 2,000 watts rms so it wouldn't be far behind, probably getting 500 rms per sub at least. the USAmp is majorly underrated too so i would probably get all the necessary wattage needed.
swez on 10/14/2006 15:46:51
I'd have to agree... you have plenty of amping power available for most any subs out there today.
swez
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 13:52:52
Thats right ;). I figure spend alot now and save a lot later. This is not the situation for my subs though i always like to save money, but then i see something better and i have to spend more money. its kind of a hassle. I'm thinking of just going with two Rockford Fosgate T215s. Vented i think they require only about 2.5 cu/f per sub which is NOTHING AT ALL. i mean im sure these guys can thump. Lately i have been trying to spend as much money now to not have to do it again later, so i upgraded ALL MY ELECTRICALS, and i have a good amp, now all i need is good subs and i really really really need some components, but thats the least of my worries for now. For subs im thinking i can either get four S15L7s, or Two MTX 9515's or Two Rockford Fosgate T215s. I hear JL W7s are good, but the MTXs seem to knock em' off the water specs wise.
swez on 10/15/2006 14:18:57
Have a serious look at the Orion H2 series subs. These are very strong, can take 2KW's per sub, very efficient and do well in compact ported enclosures: (10, 12 and 15's)
http://www.orioncaraudio.com/subwoofers/sub_H2_series.asp
Yes, they are expensive, but some careful shopping is sure to bring the price down to a managable range. Note the low tuning specs and compact enclosure recommenations for this H2 series... this is one "rock the block" subwoofer bud!
http://www99.shopping.com/xPC-Orion_Orion_H2_15D2_15_Competition_Subwoofer
swez
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 14:49:36
Wow it does seem very impressive. The wattage this sub handles far surpasses the MTX 9500 and the Rockford Fosgate T2s. Plus the price is not really that much. How much do the Orions retail for? I like this sub because it has more linear excursion than most other subs. Would one of these be enough to blow you away or would two be an amazing difference?
Victor on 10/15/2006 15:13:54
http://cerwinvega.com/products/pdf/mobile/strokerpromanual.pdf
Dave's gonna smile at this suggestion...:GRIN
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 16:02:12
Hmm seems pretty sturdy, but a bit out of my price range. Do you think it is much better than the Orion H2s? I kind of like the look of the H2s better.
swez on 10/15/2006 18:06:05
One H2's would be sufficient and adequate for the AX-2000 amp. It can take all the power if you wanted one super sub in a relatively small enclosure. The retail on the 15 is about $699.00/iea.
Victor's suggest is a good one as well. But retail on them is much higher as I recall. Seems to me, dealer cost was about $700.00. A good deal at a retail shop would be about $1,000.00.
Swez
PS If using 2 H2's, each powered at 1000 watts RMS, it would be a wash VS one H2 powered at 2000 RMS. If 2 subs used and each was amped at 2000 RMS, you'd get about +3 to +5 dB more. (Assuming your electricals could handle that much power draw... over 5KW woth of draw with both amps at full power) That's insane to me.
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 18:55:52
So you're saying that one H2 at full power is my best option next to buying another amp and another H2. Well not just a best option, but you're saying it would be insane just like that alone? How many DBs would one 12 H2 hit? would it be more than two S15L7s? oh and another thing is this sub just for spl, or is it pretty musical too? thanks in advance. ur the best swez
swez on 10/15/2006 19:34:54
A single H2 12 or 15 in a well matted (minimal leaks and vibrations) vehicle, would probably hit well into the 150's.
Kicker's do hit hard to be sure. But when you look at the cost, net efficiencies, enclosure space and power needed to run them, that's insanity. But one H2 in the right box, and enough power.... it will sound like a live bass player and drummer in your truck. (low end stuff that is)
It took me a while to remember that H2 as an option. They were on sale at one point, about a year ago. Seems like they were getting blown out for well under $300.00 at Car Domain then.
swez
PS This sub is very well made and depending on the enclosure and tuning used, it can be all SPL or a solid SQL bass engine. ;-)
cecilio87 on 10/15/2006 20:21:02
wow thats badass. What size box do you think it should be. I want it to have a HARD THUMP. what freq should i set it as and how many cu/ft should the box be?
swez on 10/16/2006 08:52:16
I would suggest contacting Orion Tech Service and ask them for a copy of the manual and sealed/vented specs for this sub.
http://www.orioncaraudio.com/contacts/default.asp
swez
cecilio87 on 10/16/2006 10:49:42
Yeah i think im going to do that because on the page it shows a few recommended enclosures, but for the 12 H2 it says only 1 cu ft vented and that seems really weird to me so im gonna get the manual. thanks swez
swez on 10/16/2006 12:38:37
Good idea.... wish I'd thought of that sooner.
swez
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