I'm looking for a good place on the web to gain installation information. Specifically, a site with pictures or drawings depicting doors with panels removed to show access, removal of dash, etc.
Replies (26)
ttocs on 08/8/2003 22:11:07
What kind of car?
bearman on 08/8/2003 23:11:21
Sorry, '99 Suburban.
ttocs on 08/9/2003 09:58:13
I can help you on those. The shop I started at does alot of them.. They are not too hard at all.
baine on 08/9/2003 15:09:03
http://www.installdr.com/InstallDocs/GM/Suburban.html It only gose to 99 surburban but it should help ya The surburban is one of the easest installes there is . No tool needed hardly every thing just pulls apart good luck. I guess this does not have the door removal but they should be held on with white plastic pins. You need to get a tool to pull them or I use long needle nose pliers get on etiher side of the pin and pull lightly it will come. You can also just pull on the door panel but you will mess it up .
bearman on 08/11/2003 15:30:11
Hey "ttoc" this car has a set of 3x5's in the rear just above the rear doors, how are these wired? Are they wired to the rear door speakers?
bearman on 08/11/2003 15:41:36
Thanks Baine, I had actually used that website to help install my head.
bearman on 08/11/2003 15:43:13
Here is what I am planning to install:
Front Door: Crystal Components CPe60sSize: 7
Sensitivity: 91 dB
Frequency Response: 60-21,000 Hz
Recommended RMS Power: 75W
Peak Power Handling: 150W
Impedance: 4 ohms
Rear Door: Infinity Kappa 652.5i Coaxial
Size: 7
Sensitivity: 90 dB
Frequency Response: 45-21,000 Hz
Recommended RMS Power: 75W
Peak Power Handling: 225W
Impedance: 4 ohms
Far Rear Overhead: ? Any suggestions?
Powered by: MTX 404Amplifier Type: Multi-Channel
RMS Power: 50W x 4 @ 14.4V
Bridged RMS Power: 200W x 2 @ 14.4V
THD at Rated RMS Power: <1%
Built-In Crossovers: HP/LP
Frequency Response: 20-20,000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >100 dB
Fuse Rating: 2 x 25 amps
Sub: 1 - 10" Audiobahn AW100Q
FS=30.5 hz
Qts=0.35
Qes=0.38
Qms=4.76
Vas=24 liters
Re=3.0 ohms
Le=3.0 mH
MMd=185 grams
RMS=400 watts
Freq. Response= 29Hz-1kHz
This amp will power only my sub:
MTX 282
Amplifier Type: 2-channel
RMS Power: 70W x 2 @ 14.4V
Bridged RMS Power: 280W x 1 @ 14.4V
THD at Rated RMS Power: <1%
Built-In Crossovers: Bass Boost: n/a
Frequency Response: 20-20,000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >100 dB
Fuse Rating: 30 amps
What do you think and how do I wire the rear overheads? Any and all input appreciated.
bearman
baine on 08/11/2003 17:56:42
yea sorry I had not read all of your post befor I went looking. Door panels are not hard to get off but some times the little plastic things will pull out of the cardboard in the older cars . Just get next to or under them and pull they come easy nuff
baine on 08/11/2003 17:58:53
as far as the over head goes to do it right you will prob have to pull all trim and your headliner (dome light whatever is mounted up there . Run you wires up a pillar and mount what ever will fit and put back the head liner and dome light all other stuff then the trim. Trim is easy use a pair of needel nose pliers and git right next too or under the little metal clip and pry and pull onthe trim lightly it will come easy nuff
Swez on 08/11/2003 19:14:04
Personally, with the quality of speakers mentioned in the F&R door panels, I would delete the rear speakers noted. The bass will drown them out anyway... save yourself the effort and concentrate on the door sepakers and sub system. All these will do is give you some upper mids and highs at best.
That's my opinion.. for what it's worth.
Swez
bearman on 08/11/2003 21:09:17
Excellent, thanks for all the help. Does anyone know how the back roof speakers are wired stock? I replaced the head unit and there were only a regular four sets of speaker wires. I assume they come off of the rear door speaker wires? Is this correct?
Also, this vehicle had "Speed Controled Volume" stock. Are there aftermarket head units that will do this? Its a nifty feature.
carfreak on 08/11/2003 22:59:37
yes there are HU that will do it JVC arsenal KD-LX333 is on that will . I would assume that there some wires that are put togeter for the 4 rear speakers . If you really want to replace the top speakers go to crutchfeild.com and look to see what they are for sure. If you are going for sound I would just do the doors , if you are going for perfection then you might mess with the top rear but I think It would be a pain in the butt .
bearman on 08/12/2003 13:05:53
Couple more questions for anyone who knows:
1.) I have seen installations that used a lot of dampening material in the doors, floorboard, etc. Is this necessary? What are the advantages?
2.) If I decide to install new tailgate/pillar speakers, I am curious how to wire them to the head unit. Since my amp is 4-channel and will run the four door speakers, I was considering running the tailgate speakers off the head unit direct, but possibly bridging the output from the HU. Is this wise? And how would I do it? Should I just combine the two hots and two grounds from the HU and run them to the speakers? In this way, I wouldn't have to run new speaker wires to these speakers and I could push extra juice to them.
compvr15s on 08/12/2003 14:18:05
the dampening material just helps from rattles and shakes. sometimes it is not any help but it can make a big difference, the keeps the music inside the vehicle instead of the sound waves being lost through all that rattling. i would not recommend bridging the HU, i would probably leave the factory speakers in and just run some filters on them to keep the bass out of them, and run them off the rear speaker wires on the head unit. i dont think HUs are made to run like that, same as amps if you go below the allowable impedence. then you risk blowing it. id either not run them at all or just run the ones you got in there now off the cd player, because it will probably not bennifit you to buy new ones since the cd player is only puttin out about 25 watts to the speaks. wait for others to comment tho, good luck!
Swez on 08/12/2003 14:27:10
The stock speakers in rear pillars may be of an odd impedence to fit the factory HU system. Most likely, they are tapped in parallel, off the rear door speaks.
If you wish to try using them, can run that rear channel of your amp down to a 2 ohm load and be safe. If they sound good to you as is, then use them. If they do not sound very good or out of balance, remove the wires that attach them to rear door speakers/harness.
Depending on the power handling of these small speakers, they may blow eventually if too much low frequency is applied. Here, a passive filtering cap would help on each speaker. (Blocks out midbass)
On some HU's bridging outputs is possible, but you would have to check the MFG's recommendations before you try. The main concern I have, is the nominal resistance of these rear piller speakers. They may not be 4 ohms... but other.
About bridging HU's... read this but it may not help much: http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/brighead.htm
Swez
bearman on 08/12/2003 21:56:03
You guys have been a big help. Thanks and I'm sure you'll be hearing back when I start the install.
bearman on 08/15/2003 16:17:45
I'm a little confused as to how to wire my amp for the front speakers (listed above). Since my components have a cross-over, should I run the amp to these speakers in Low Pass or High Pass. My entire system is listed above, so any help is appreciated.
compvr15s on 08/15/2003 20:51:47
if your amp dont have a full range crossover you will want to run it in high pass, to the componet crossover. well i dunno if it will mater since you have a crosover, but id try high pass first and see how that sounds, in low pass i think the crossovers would be fighting each other, the amp is tryin to filter all the high frequencies which the tweets will need and the crossover is filterin the low freqs from the tweets, but try high pass and see how ya like that. good luck
Swez on 08/16/2003 17:18:17
Since you are using quality comps here, the crossovers will take care of most of the frequency management. Just wire the amp out channels to the input side of the crosovers, then output side of the crossovers to the proper driver (midbass/tweeter).
You may wish to tweak the HP settings on the 4 ch., amp between 60-80 Hz and see which sounds best here. The crossovers will do the rest!
Swez
bearman on 08/20/2003 13:19:27
I'm looking up the technical specs on my equipment and I came across a question. My door speakers are 4 ohm, my amp states in the tech. specs. that at 4 ohm RMS the amp will supply 35W x 4. Does this mean I will be underpowering my speakers? Because my speakers are rated at 75W. Am I missing something here? Should I not be shooting for an amp that will deliver 75W at 4 ohm?
Help.
Tray on 08/20/2003 13:44:53
Yes, you will be slightly underpowering your speakers, but it will not be a problem. They will run fine, and should sound quite good with 35 watts each.
You can run anything up to 75x4 RMS at 4 ohms to those speakers.
Swez on 08/20/2003 13:31:37
MTX and other amp makers do play games with the numbers they publish on products. To the ordinary guy... everything looks good on paper. But to a trained eye, there are things we looked for to tell the whole story. Not just the hype!
Here are the specs on this amp:
This amplifier features a flexible crossover configuration (front & rear is high pass/low pass switchable and defeatable, both fixed at 85Hz). Thunder404 also has full-range outputs to easily daisy chain multiple amplifiers. "Smart-Engage" included.
Download Owner's Manual in PDF form.
Specifications
Crossover(s)
Hi / Low @ 85Hz - Rear Defeatable
Hi Pass @ 85Hz - Front Defeatable
RCA Output
Full Range Only
RMS Power 12.5 VDC Input
2 Ohm Load 70 w x 4
4 Ohm Load 35 w x 4
Bridged 4 Ohm Load 140 w x 2
Dynamic Power 14.4 VDC
2 Ohm Load 100 w x 4
4 Ohm Load 50 w x 4
Bridged 4 Ohm Load 200 w x 2
Dimensions (with ISO Feet)
11.5" x 9.75" x 2.1"
29.3cm x 24.8cm x 5.3cm
So basically, this amp is pretty low power for your application.... 35-40 watts RMS @ 4 ohms x 4 channels is about it.
Also, the HP crossovers listed are barely useful for your front and rear stage speakers. They crossover at 85 Hz., so the sub amp will have to crossover at same, using LP filter. You can defeat the crossover function and just try that for now.
As for real power, 35 RMS x 4 is barely more than most good HU's put out. Can you consider a better 4 channel amp here. This is like powering a Corvette with a 4 cylinder engine and 100 HP.... rediculous waste of a great car... ( your new speakers)
If you want a quality 4 channel amp that does not break the bank, but does the job, consider this one:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-irboB7KKLHU/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&c=3&g=120&I=235USB4085
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
I now have the USX-4065 myself and awaiting install of same. Got it from a buddy as I helped him do a custom install on his newest truck and he upgrades everything to some very nuce (expensive ) DSL amps.
Swez
bearman on 08/20/2003 13:57:55
So I was right, I need to look for something that will power me at around 75Wx4 at 4 ohms. The last thing I want to do is underpower my system.
bearman on 08/20/2003 15:01:43
Question about boxes. I'm an avid woodworker and I am curious to know if there is any inherent problems in building a subwoofer box out of solid wood. All the articles I have read thus far have suggested building out of plywood (OSB or MDF). I am considering a hardwood box (no carpet or paint) to showcase my sub in.
Swez on 08/20/2003 16:33:09
I would think a good hardwood species would be great if you can justify the cost of 3/4" thick panels or laminating thinner sheets together. Just have to predrill and counter sink any exterior screws and plug them later.
Internal cleats to hold the boards solid would help eliminate external screws as all screws can be inserted through the cleats and into the main boards. The only place you might need external screws, is the back panel to service the woofers or seal rear panel and do all work through the woofer cutout(s).
As for corners, do you have dove tail joinery experience? That would look so nice in a natural finish too. Just one thing, this will be a work of art when done and you'll need to employ some form of anchoring when the box is installed. Something on the order of a locking cleat from the bottom to trunk floor panel or whatever.... get creative!
Oh, I have never heard of using OSB for a real box... maybe a test box... but OSB is just too unstable and probably full of internal voids if not laminated correctly.
Comments?
Swez
Swez on 08/20/2003 22:04:25
Good to Go... just use a stable hardwood, predrill all screws and use a quaility glue.... Geez .. why am I telling you that... you have more know-how in this realm then I have to date.
Sounds good though!
Swez
PS Start a new post as this is a new subject and easier to skip past other issues... TKS
Replies (26)
ttocs on 08/8/2003 22:11:07
What kind of car?
bearman on 08/8/2003 23:11:21
Sorry, '99 Suburban.
ttocs on 08/9/2003 09:58:13
I can help you on those. The shop I started at does alot of them.. They are not too hard at all.
baine on 08/9/2003 15:09:03
http://www.installdr.com/InstallDocs/GM/Suburban.html It only gose to 99 surburban but it should help ya The surburban is one of the easest installes there is . No tool needed hardly every thing just pulls apart good luck. I guess this does not have the door removal but they should be held on with white plastic pins. You need to get a tool to pull them or I use long needle nose pliers get on etiher side of the pin and pull lightly it will come. You can also just pull on the door panel but you will mess it up .
bearman on 08/11/2003 15:30:11
Hey "ttoc" this car has a set of 3x5's in the rear just above the rear doors, how are these wired? Are they wired to the rear door speakers?
bearman on 08/11/2003 15:41:36
Thanks Baine, I had actually used that website to help install my head.
bearman on 08/11/2003 15:43:13
Here is what I am planning to install:
Front Door: Crystal Components CPe60sSize: 7
Sensitivity: 91 dB
Frequency Response: 60-21,000 Hz
Recommended RMS Power: 75W
Peak Power Handling: 150W
Impedance: 4 ohms
Rear Door: Infinity Kappa 652.5i Coaxial
Size: 7
Sensitivity: 90 dB
Frequency Response: 45-21,000 Hz
Recommended RMS Power: 75W
Peak Power Handling: 225W
Impedance: 4 ohms
Far Rear Overhead: ? Any suggestions?
Powered by: MTX 404Amplifier Type: Multi-Channel
RMS Power: 50W x 4 @ 14.4V
Bridged RMS Power: 200W x 2 @ 14.4V
THD at Rated RMS Power: <1%
Built-In Crossovers: HP/LP
Frequency Response: 20-20,000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >100 dB
Fuse Rating: 2 x 25 amps
Sub: 1 - 10" Audiobahn AW100Q
FS=30.5 hz
Qts=0.35
Qes=0.38
Qms=4.76
Vas=24 liters
Re=3.0 ohms
Le=3.0 mH
MMd=185 grams
RMS=400 watts
Freq. Response= 29Hz-1kHz
This amp will power only my sub:
MTX 282
Amplifier Type: 2-channel
RMS Power: 70W x 2 @ 14.4V
Bridged RMS Power: 280W x 1 @ 14.4V
THD at Rated RMS Power: <1%
Built-In Crossovers: Bass Boost: n/a
Frequency Response: 20-20,000 Hz
Signal to Noise Ratio: >100 dB
Fuse Rating: 30 amps
What do you think and how do I wire the rear overheads? Any and all input appreciated.
bearman
baine on 08/11/2003 17:56:42
yea sorry I had not read all of your post befor I went looking. Door panels are not hard to get off but some times the little plastic things will pull out of the cardboard in the older cars . Just get next to or under them and pull they come easy nuff
baine on 08/11/2003 17:58:53
as far as the over head goes to do it right you will prob have to pull all trim and your headliner (dome light whatever is mounted up there . Run you wires up a pillar and mount what ever will fit and put back the head liner and dome light all other stuff then the trim. Trim is easy use a pair of needel nose pliers and git right next too or under the little metal clip and pry and pull onthe trim lightly it will come easy nuff
Swez on 08/11/2003 19:14:04
Personally, with the quality of speakers mentioned in the F&R door panels, I would delete the rear speakers noted. The bass will drown them out anyway... save yourself the effort and concentrate on the door sepakers and sub system. All these will do is give you some upper mids and highs at best.
That's my opinion.. for what it's worth.
Swez
bearman on 08/11/2003 21:09:17
Excellent, thanks for all the help. Does anyone know how the back roof speakers are wired stock? I replaced the head unit and there were only a regular four sets of speaker wires. I assume they come off of the rear door speaker wires? Is this correct?
Also, this vehicle had "Speed Controled Volume" stock. Are there aftermarket head units that will do this? Its a nifty feature.
carfreak on 08/11/2003 22:59:37
yes there are HU that will do it JVC arsenal KD-LX333 is on that will . I would assume that there some wires that are put togeter for the 4 rear speakers . If you really want to replace the top speakers go to crutchfeild.com and look to see what they are for sure. If you are going for sound I would just do the doors , if you are going for perfection then you might mess with the top rear but I think It would be a pain in the butt .
bearman on 08/12/2003 13:05:53
Couple more questions for anyone who knows:
1.) I have seen installations that used a lot of dampening material in the doors, floorboard, etc. Is this necessary? What are the advantages?
2.) If I decide to install new tailgate/pillar speakers, I am curious how to wire them to the head unit. Since my amp is 4-channel and will run the four door speakers, I was considering running the tailgate speakers off the head unit direct, but possibly bridging the output from the HU. Is this wise? And how would I do it? Should I just combine the two hots and two grounds from the HU and run them to the speakers? In this way, I wouldn't have to run new speaker wires to these speakers and I could push extra juice to them.
compvr15s on 08/12/2003 14:18:05
the dampening material just helps from rattles and shakes. sometimes it is not any help but it can make a big difference, the keeps the music inside the vehicle instead of the sound waves being lost through all that rattling. i would not recommend bridging the HU, i would probably leave the factory speakers in and just run some filters on them to keep the bass out of them, and run them off the rear speaker wires on the head unit. i dont think HUs are made to run like that, same as amps if you go below the allowable impedence. then you risk blowing it. id either not run them at all or just run the ones you got in there now off the cd player, because it will probably not bennifit you to buy new ones since the cd player is only puttin out about 25 watts to the speaks. wait for others to comment tho, good luck!
Swez on 08/12/2003 14:27:10
The stock speakers in rear pillars may be of an odd impedence to fit the factory HU system. Most likely, they are tapped in parallel, off the rear door speaks.
If you wish to try using them, can run that rear channel of your amp down to a 2 ohm load and be safe. If they sound good to you as is, then use them. If they do not sound very good or out of balance, remove the wires that attach them to rear door speakers/harness.
Depending on the power handling of these small speakers, they may blow eventually if too much low frequency is applied. Here, a passive filtering cap would help on each speaker. (Blocks out midbass)
On some HU's bridging outputs is possible, but you would have to check the MFG's recommendations before you try. The main concern I have, is the nominal resistance of these rear piller speakers. They may not be 4 ohms... but other.
About bridging HU's... read this but it may not help much: http://www.eatel.net/~amptech/elecdisc/brighead.htm
Swez
bearman on 08/12/2003 21:56:03
You guys have been a big help. Thanks and I'm sure you'll be hearing back when I start the install.
bearman on 08/15/2003 16:17:45
I'm a little confused as to how to wire my amp for the front speakers (listed above). Since my components have a cross-over, should I run the amp to these speakers in Low Pass or High Pass. My entire system is listed above, so any help is appreciated.
compvr15s on 08/15/2003 20:51:47
if your amp dont have a full range crossover you will want to run it in high pass, to the componet crossover. well i dunno if it will mater since you have a crosover, but id try high pass first and see how that sounds, in low pass i think the crossovers would be fighting each other, the amp is tryin to filter all the high frequencies which the tweets will need and the crossover is filterin the low freqs from the tweets, but try high pass and see how ya like that. good luck
Swez on 08/16/2003 17:18:17
Since you are using quality comps here, the crossovers will take care of most of the frequency management. Just wire the amp out channels to the input side of the crosovers, then output side of the crossovers to the proper driver (midbass/tweeter).
You may wish to tweak the HP settings on the 4 ch., amp between 60-80 Hz and see which sounds best here. The crossovers will do the rest!
Swez
bearman on 08/20/2003 13:19:27
I'm looking up the technical specs on my equipment and I came across a question. My door speakers are 4 ohm, my amp states in the tech. specs. that at 4 ohm RMS the amp will supply 35W x 4. Does this mean I will be underpowering my speakers? Because my speakers are rated at 75W. Am I missing something here? Should I not be shooting for an amp that will deliver 75W at 4 ohm?
Help.
Tray on 08/20/2003 13:44:53
Yes, you will be slightly underpowering your speakers, but it will not be a problem. They will run fine, and should sound quite good with 35 watts each.
You can run anything up to 75x4 RMS at 4 ohms to those speakers.
Swez on 08/20/2003 13:31:37
MTX and other amp makers do play games with the numbers they publish on products. To the ordinary guy... everything looks good on paper. But to a trained eye, there are things we looked for to tell the whole story. Not just the hype!
Here are the specs on this amp:
This amplifier features a flexible crossover configuration (front & rear is high pass/low pass switchable and defeatable, both fixed at 85Hz). Thunder404 also has full-range outputs to easily daisy chain multiple amplifiers. "Smart-Engage" included.
Download Owner's Manual in PDF form.
Specifications
Crossover(s)
Hi / Low @ 85Hz - Rear Defeatable
Hi Pass @ 85Hz - Front Defeatable
RCA Output
Full Range Only
RMS Power 12.5 VDC Input
2 Ohm Load 70 w x 4
4 Ohm Load 35 w x 4
Bridged 4 Ohm Load 140 w x 2
Dynamic Power 14.4 VDC
2 Ohm Load 100 w x 4
4 Ohm Load 50 w x 4
Bridged 4 Ohm Load 200 w x 2
Dimensions (with ISO Feet)
11.5" x 9.75" x 2.1"
29.3cm x 24.8cm x 5.3cm
So basically, this amp is pretty low power for your application.... 35-40 watts RMS @ 4 ohms x 4 channels is about it.
Also, the HP crossovers listed are barely useful for your front and rear stage speakers. They crossover at 85 Hz., so the sub amp will have to crossover at same, using LP filter. You can defeat the crossover function and just try that for now.
As for real power, 35 RMS x 4 is barely more than most good HU's put out. Can you consider a better 4 channel amp here. This is like powering a Corvette with a 4 cylinder engine and 100 HP.... rediculous waste of a great car... ( your new speakers)
If you want a quality 4 channel amp that does not break the bank, but does the job, consider this one:
http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-irboB7KKLHU/ProdView.asp?s=0&cc=01&c=3&g=120&I=235USB4085
http://www.thezeb.com/caraudio/us_acoustics.html
I now have the USX-4065 myself and awaiting install of same. Got it from a buddy as I helped him do a custom install on his newest truck and he upgrades everything to some very nuce (expensive ) DSL amps.
Swez
bearman on 08/20/2003 13:57:55
So I was right, I need to look for something that will power me at around 75Wx4 at 4 ohms. The last thing I want to do is underpower my system.
bearman on 08/20/2003 15:01:43
Question about boxes. I'm an avid woodworker and I am curious to know if there is any inherent problems in building a subwoofer box out of solid wood. All the articles I have read thus far have suggested building out of plywood (OSB or MDF). I am considering a hardwood box (no carpet or paint) to showcase my sub in.
Swez on 08/20/2003 16:33:09
I would think a good hardwood species would be great if you can justify the cost of 3/4" thick panels or laminating thinner sheets together. Just have to predrill and counter sink any exterior screws and plug them later.
Internal cleats to hold the boards solid would help eliminate external screws as all screws can be inserted through the cleats and into the main boards. The only place you might need external screws, is the back panel to service the woofers or seal rear panel and do all work through the woofer cutout(s).
As for corners, do you have dove tail joinery experience? That would look so nice in a natural finish too. Just one thing, this will be a work of art when done and you'll need to employ some form of anchoring when the box is installed. Something on the order of a locking cleat from the bottom to trunk floor panel or whatever.... get creative!
Oh, I have never heard of using OSB for a real box... maybe a test box... but OSB is just too unstable and probably full of internal voids if not laminated correctly.
Comments?
Swez
Swez on 08/20/2003 22:04:25
Good to Go... just use a stable hardwood, predrill all screws and use a quaility glue.... Geez .. why am I telling you that... you have more know-how in this realm then I have to date.
Sounds good though!
Swez
PS Start a new post as this is a new subject and easier to skip past other issues... TKS
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