Hey there guys, whats up? Not sure if anyone remembers but i've been on here before a few times. Anywhoo, I am now at college (University of Southern California) and had to sell all my car stereo stuff cuz my parents got rid of my car as soon as I left (no loyalty!). Anyhow, now I am planning to live vicariously through my friends soundsystems for a few years till I make enough to get a car and a system.
Anywhooooooooo, the point of my post is that one of my friends who has a BMW 3 series (the new model) suddenly decided he wanted to add subwoofers to his car. He wants to spend around 900 bucks for the sub/s and amp and then if he can, he'd probably like to get installation in there for that amount too. He wants to get 2 12" subs and I think we're goin for SQ but nice and loud. So my question to you is...
1) Do you think he should go with 2 12" subs or a diff config?
2) Which subs? (I was thinking maybe Type Rs cuz i had one and liked it but I was wondering what you guys with more experience would suggest. Also, I was also interested in the RE XXXs for no particular reason)
3) Which amp?
4) Do you guys know any good install shops to go to in LA or the surrounding area?
Thanks soo much, I am just as excited as he is to get this system so I can feel the joy of bass again.
P.S. He listens to mostly rap.
Replies (21)
swez on 09/22/2006 09:18:36
A single 12" in a well designed sealed or ported enclosure will give him some nice bass. The Alpine SWR-1242D is a very good SQL choice for a sub and a well matched amp with sub-sonic filtering is recommended with ported enclosures. (Tuned at 30-35 Hz.)
As for amps, the Alpine MRD-M605 is a good amp match for this sub and plenty of power for the SWR sub.
AMP:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=14927 ($243.00)
Sub:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13848 ($99.00)
If this vehicle has a factory amping system, (Likely) he'll want a qualified installer to do the work for him. This is not a recommended install for a rookie. (Not on a Beemer)
Sub enclosures will range from $175-250.00 when custom enclosures are fabricated. Sealed boxes with 1.0-1.2 cf are a good choice for Rap music. If he goes ported, a 1.5 -1.75 cf box, tuned to between 30-35 Hz., will give a bit more low end bump.
swez
MrBrownstone on 09/22/2006 17:03:41
Mr Miyagi
All I remember of you is Wax On...Wax Off. Thank you. :-)
I would definitely get a good idea as to how ambitious he is on the system. A Beemer isn't exactly the type of car you want an embarassing ghetto system installed.
In this case, $900 should provide plenty of power the woofers, enclosure, etc. There are dozens of woofers we could recommend, however, I would like to know if he plans on changing the components, head unit, etc.
Mr._Miyagi on 09/22/2006 20:09:52
Hey guys, so in terms of ambition for his system he wants to keep the current head unit and speakers so he just wants to sub/s and amp. Umm, lemme know if there is any other questions. Also, would it be an embarassing ghetto system if it was just the new sub and amp? Or is that when the install and components are just poorly done? Thanks for the help.
Eli
MrBrownstone on 09/23/2006 03:49:27
concerning the ghetto system, I don't think adding a sub/amp is ghetto, just so that the installation looks like it was thought out well. Your assumption is correct, when the system is poorly done...or he has a Bazooka tube.
Bazooka, the inventor of the original 'One Note Wonder'.
What I was getting at was that if he's putting together a system in the near future, it may be best to plan out the entire thing, and just add things as time permits. That way you don't have 8 manufacturers in the car. Trying to keep all the amps with one mfr, and all the speakers with one mfr helps a lot.
Also, when he buys an amp for his subwoofers, it'd be helpful to prepare for upgrades. Why? Because 90% of people that add a subwoofer end up disliking the overall sound of their system a month later, and want to do the rest of the car. A lot of purchases like line drivers, etc. are unnecessary in well planned systems.
If the current head unit is a factory one, that's a little different story than if it's an aftermarket one. Is it a factory unit?
Mr._Miyagi on 09/23/2006 04:25:46
yeah it is currently factory, and we are going to have the install profesionally done cuz I don't want to mess up his beemer.
MrBrownstone on 09/23/2006 15:27:22
Sounds good
In the beginning, I would suggest a bigger subwoofer amplifier. The only reason is that when he comes to sell it later in his car audio career, a 300W amp is going to be hard to unload. Memphis 1000D, Crossfire 1000, Infinity, DEI, Alpine, etc. Most amps that put out 900-1000W are going to work best. Especially if he listens to rap because that's some demanding muzak.
As far as subwoofers, try to do some preemptive planning on the system. Only buy woofers that you likely would also buy component speakers from the same manufacturer. This keeps the equipment looking uniform and avoids the 7 manufacturers in one car problem.
You could do all Infinity, All CDT, All Alpine, Quart, etc.. of course, it's not a requirement. You could even do all Infinity amps & speakers!!!
WHatever you decide, just make certain he buys keepers for amps & speakers. Spending ENOUGH money will assist in both getting your money's worth, and avoiding the ghetto effect.
Mr._Miyagi on 09/23/2006 21:42:40
Hey so update to the situation...We went to this shop called LA Rims and got convinced to buy an amp and two 12" subs by a company called Arc Audio (arcaudio.com). The dude selling was this intimidating but funny Armenian guy who has been doin installs since 91 and has opened a few shops. It was strange, he was saying how JL Audio and Alpine are like "micky mouse s---" and such. Anyhow, my friend ended up signing his life away and dropping $1600 bucks for the 2 twelves, the amp, box, install, rcas etc. He bought the stuff today cuz the guy pulled the car dealer move and went "this price is today only". Anyhow, have any of you guys heard of Arc Audio? I looked it up and it was only started in 1998 but it seems to have a pretty good repuation.
MrBrownstone on 09/23/2006 22:57:32
ARC is no doubt a great manufacturer. However they are way overpriced. Zapco is another overmarketed company.
He will not be dissatisfied with the performance of the Arc products. They are great.
There are (or in his case) were 11 or 12 other manufacturers that would do the same job, but for 40 to 60% less cost. Anyone that badmouths JL Audio is a salesperson trying to get in your pants. PERIOD.
JL started the multiple voice coil woofer idea in cars. They pioneered a lot of technology and are the standard in reliability. Like saying the Dodge Viper is Mickey Mouse sheet because my Ferrari is better.
Bear in mind, they both have the same 0-60, both very cool, but the Viper is $50,000 less costly. Just because it is foreign or not well known doesn't make it a better product for performance.
Hey, at least he didn't buy Legacy :=)
swez on 09/24/2006 09:52:01
Your friend has an option... cancel the deal, get his money back and shop elsewhere. This is the law and buyer's who get muscled or hussled by such tactics can legally back out of the deal on the 3 day clause. You might have your friend contact the BBB and see how many complaints have been registered against this business.
Anyone who bad-mouths JL needs a reality check. This is a common technique used by shops who cannot get authorized JL products. They don't have it, cannot sell it and therefore... it's junk and they push what they do have on hand.
Arc is a nice product line. But as Mr. B. says, it's very over priced for what one gets. Basically, your friend got hussled and lacks the skills to negotiate, (push back) for a good deal. This can happen to anyone that is not prepared with adequate research, doesn't know the market value of what is offered and just get sucked in by a slick pitch with a good stinger in the tail. (Read... walk out the door and look elsewhere to do business)
Fortunately, your buddy may have recourse and can cancel the deal if he has not paid the bill upfront. Even if he was naive enough to pay the bill (before the work is done) to his complete satisfaction, he can still get his power and money back under the 3 day clause. ("Buyer's Remorse")
This clause is normally applied in buying a car or real estate. However, it may play well for a good poker player who know how to bluff and calls his credit card/banking company to stop the transaction before the work is done. Otherwise, your friend has just been royally screwed over by a fast talking scheister. Welcome to life in a big city.
Good luck,
swez
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 16:26:15
Hey Swez so a few questions for if we are going to take this route. Since he bullied us into buying the stuff in the first place, without any additional advice or planning I think we may get bullied into either leaving part of the money (he paid a 50% deposit) or bullied into sticking with the deal in the first place. To be honest, we may have gotten screwed on the product (with it being overpriced and all) but the deal we got on the equipment was fair, not great but fair. So I guess we'd go into the store, and be like "Hey, we want our money back because through research we have found out that ARC, while a good product, is very over-priced and you used bullying tactics to make us commit on the day we came in. Furthermore, under the 3 day clause we know we have the right to get our full money back and if you don't oblige we will contact the BBB and report you." Any other suggestions for what we should say or bring with us? (besides a shank....this guy is one intimidating armenien)
thanks a bunch...we'll see how this goes and what route my friend wants to go.
Eli
MrBrownstone on 09/24/2006 17:07:33
If he's decidedly convinced that he spent too much money, and against the project, just tell the guy you overspent and cannot afford what you did.
If he hasn't done any install work, there's no cost to the store period! It's not like an open-heart surgeon that has to do 15 or 20 tests and scans and 5 consultations before getting something done. It's a friggin car stereo.
If he paid ccard or check, just tell the store you need a refund. You respect the quality of the equipment, but can't cover the cost. You can return the equipment, cancel the check/credit card charge, and that should be it.
When they question you, just tell him you got oversold and can't part with as much money as you originally budgeted. He'll then come back with '...here's a less expensive product that'll do fairly well..'
At that point, you know he definitely oversold you, AND, he's admitted guilt to overpricing his product. Again, there's NOTHING wrong with ARC. However, BRAX, HELIX, and about 15 other manufacturers do the high cost/high quality sell. Heck, What's the difference between Lexus and Toyota? Styling and amenities.
Do you really need leather seats on an amplifier?
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 17:14:46
Thanks a lot Mr. B, I haven't been able to contact my friend yet but assuming he does want to get out of the deal and we are able to successfully. What are the other high end manufacturers we should be looking at? My friend i can guess will probably only get out of it if he knows of a equal or better quality product at a cheaper price. JL Audio I assume since everyone was defending them, and what else? I wasn't able to find pricing on JL Audio's website so I'm not exactly sure which one would fit the situation. Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help and that you guys have our backs.
Eli
swez on 09/24/2006 17:31:52
There's really only one effective way to deal with a bully.... "Beat his brains out" and he'll be your best friend for life. Being nice to a bully, rarely works.
I understand how it feels to run up against strong personalities when we are not fully prepared and get beat up or taken advantage of. One feels out-gunned, out of their league and intimidated. That's not a good person to do business with.
May I suggest you go in there with a stronger personality type guy... 6'6", 280 lbs (football player) and demand his money back? Basically, the attitude here is... "I won't do biz w/ you Mr. Armenian Schmuck and I DEMAND my deposit back" !!! I also brought my friend Vito to help out if you don't cooperate.
Another thing you can do, is call the local PD in that neighborhood and see if you can have a uniformed policemen come in to the store with you. He will observe and serve as a referee and may be just enough show of legal force to get your friend's deposit back. If you can get a cop to come in with you, I'd bet Schmucky's demeanor will change dramatically.
How did your friend pay for the deposit? (Cash, CC or check?) There are other strategies in each case. The hardest one to get back, is a cash deposit.... read the terms of sale clauses on the invoice and you'll know what to expect.
Worst case scenario, he gets his gear, has it installed and pays the final balance when he is fully satisfied with the work. Yes, he may have paid too much and got pushed around by Schmucky this time. But it's a valuable lesson we all have to face at some point in our lives. Just be glad it wasn't a $10,000 deposit on some swamp land in Florida.
swez
PS Whenever we encounter guys/gals like this in life, it's best to either walk away and go elsewhere or, put on the boxing gloves and be ready to beat their brains out to soften them up a bit. Am only half kidding here as I don't condone physical violence. However, it takes a lot of skill and courage to deal with people like Schmucky.
I've done it many times now and it's still not fun. Schmucky is very skilled at such tactics. You fella's were just plain intimedated and did not have the composure to walk. Now, it's plan B... damage control and a hard lesson learned at a key point in life.
Good luck and hope this turns out well for your buddy!
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 17:51:42
He paid $300 in cash, 500 in credit. My friend seems to not want to put in the effort to get his money back but I think that it is worth it (though its his money not mine) since its essentially an $800 hassle. I think if I can come up with exact suggestions of something that is just as good or better, for a better price, he might come around. I know you guys have helped me out a lot so far with the arguement strategies but if you wouldn't mind, could you I ask for your help a bit further with regards to specific replacements?
P.S. We were going to go this coming friday to have the stuff installed. Thanks
Eli
cybersailor420 on 09/24/2006 19:34:21
It seems to me that the only way to convince your friend to ditch this plan would be to find another dealer, who carries a well known brand (alpine, jl, etc...), and get an equal or cheaper quote for the same work to be done with equipment of equal or better value.
long sentence, i know...
do the golds agree?
-Ian-
MrBrownstone on 09/24/2006 19:54:25
Besides JL Woofer I would recommend:
Amps (500 to 700W) PRICES ONLINE...likely higher in store.
Memphis 16-MCD500D $280 (online or a little more in store)
Crossfire VR-600d $325 (same)
JL Audio 1800D $390 (same)
Alpine MRD-M605 $260 (same)
DEI D600 $270 (same)
Infinity REF-1211A $370 (same)
PPI DCX 500.1 $320 (same)
Orion Orion 600D $300 (same)
If you can stomach another 40% more cost, you get about double the amp from the same manufacturers.
Subs (~300W RMS approx)
Infinity Kappa Perfect DVQ $220 (online or more in store)
Alumapro MX12 $220 (same)
Eclipse Aluminum SW7124DVC $210 (same)
Alpine
Boston Acoustic
Crossfire
MTX 7500 series (or higher) $180 (same)
CDT Audio HD Series (or higher)
PS With my recommendations, $900 is about what you'd be spending in stores. Installation should be easy, like $150 to install an amp, integrate wiring wiring with head unit and running wire to battery. $200 tops. Total ~$1100.
PPS If you wanted, you could buy the Memphis Belle and have the entire car amped for $300 more!!! Amazing how overpriced some brands are, huh?
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2622 Memphis Belle 75Wx4 + 1100Wx1
MrBrownstone on 09/24/2006 20:16:38
If they haven't done any work, just walk in and look angry. People cancel every day.
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 22:53:45
My friend doesn't want to get his money back because for some reason he feels like he wasn't cheated and he says the guy "just did his job" and he doesn't want to get his money back because he has too much "pride" to ask for his money back. Getting a fair deal by asking for your money back doesn't strike me as anything that should hurt ones' pride but he is decided so whatever. He will undoubtedly have a good sounding system and he will have learned a lesson I guess and since he seems ok with losing 1600 bucks, thats his choice I guess. Thanks for the help through this and for the suggestions, sorry I couldn't follow em.
Eli
swez on 09/25/2006 09:45:07
If your friend is satisfied with his deal, let him do it. Yes, you are trying to be a good buddy and that is commendable... CLAP
However, this has little to do with his pride... it's "seems" more like fear of getting bold and sticking up for himself. (Admitting he got stung, but leaving the stinger in to fester.) But as noted, it's his cash and his call.
The good news here, look how many good people are trying to help him out of a hole. Others who are also tracking this post will learn from someone elses mistakes too. This lesson is priceless to those who ARE paying attention. So, let the guy do this his way, take his lumps and learn the hard way.
FYI: Life in the real world, can be very much "Dog eat Dog". The sooner one wises up to that fact, the better off they will be in deeper matters that come along later.
Eli, you have done your best and he seems not willing to budge. So, the point is pretty much moot. If this fella has been cursed with growing up with a "Silver Spoon" all his life, he's not likely to see this as a setback. There's always more cake on the money tree when needed and he's not worried about picking as much as he desires. However, if the money tree goes bare someday or he has to fend for himself and struggle like most people do in the early years, it's OK and a valuable lesson in life.
Nuff said...
swez
Victor on 09/25/2006 11:07:29
I would love to have clients such as your friends.. hehehehehehehe........ And I have a whole lotta em too.....GRIN
swez on 09/25/2006 12:05:41
Yeah... me too. But I would be a whole lot more fair with them so that it's a win-win deal for everyone.
swez
Anywhooooooooo, the point of my post is that one of my friends who has a BMW 3 series (the new model) suddenly decided he wanted to add subwoofers to his car. He wants to spend around 900 bucks for the sub/s and amp and then if he can, he'd probably like to get installation in there for that amount too. He wants to get 2 12" subs and I think we're goin for SQ but nice and loud. So my question to you is...
1) Do you think he should go with 2 12" subs or a diff config?
2) Which subs? (I was thinking maybe Type Rs cuz i had one and liked it but I was wondering what you guys with more experience would suggest. Also, I was also interested in the RE XXXs for no particular reason)
3) Which amp?
4) Do you guys know any good install shops to go to in LA or the surrounding area?
Thanks soo much, I am just as excited as he is to get this system so I can feel the joy of bass again.
P.S. He listens to mostly rap.
Replies (21)
swez on 09/22/2006 09:18:36
A single 12" in a well designed sealed or ported enclosure will give him some nice bass. The Alpine SWR-1242D is a very good SQL choice for a sub and a well matched amp with sub-sonic filtering is recommended with ported enclosures. (Tuned at 30-35 Hz.)
As for amps, the Alpine MRD-M605 is a good amp match for this sub and plenty of power for the SWR sub.
AMP:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=14927 ($243.00)
Sub:
http://www.onlinecarstereo.com/CarAudio/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductID=13848 ($99.00)
If this vehicle has a factory amping system, (Likely) he'll want a qualified installer to do the work for him. This is not a recommended install for a rookie. (Not on a Beemer)
Sub enclosures will range from $175-250.00 when custom enclosures are fabricated. Sealed boxes with 1.0-1.2 cf are a good choice for Rap music. If he goes ported, a 1.5 -1.75 cf box, tuned to between 30-35 Hz., will give a bit more low end bump.
swez
MrBrownstone on 09/22/2006 17:03:41
Mr Miyagi
All I remember of you is Wax On...Wax Off. Thank you. :-)
I would definitely get a good idea as to how ambitious he is on the system. A Beemer isn't exactly the type of car you want an embarassing ghetto system installed.
In this case, $900 should provide plenty of power the woofers, enclosure, etc. There are dozens of woofers we could recommend, however, I would like to know if he plans on changing the components, head unit, etc.
Mr._Miyagi on 09/22/2006 20:09:52
Hey guys, so in terms of ambition for his system he wants to keep the current head unit and speakers so he just wants to sub/s and amp. Umm, lemme know if there is any other questions. Also, would it be an embarassing ghetto system if it was just the new sub and amp? Or is that when the install and components are just poorly done? Thanks for the help.
Eli
MrBrownstone on 09/23/2006 03:49:27
concerning the ghetto system, I don't think adding a sub/amp is ghetto, just so that the installation looks like it was thought out well. Your assumption is correct, when the system is poorly done...or he has a Bazooka tube.
Bazooka, the inventor of the original 'One Note Wonder'.
What I was getting at was that if he's putting together a system in the near future, it may be best to plan out the entire thing, and just add things as time permits. That way you don't have 8 manufacturers in the car. Trying to keep all the amps with one mfr, and all the speakers with one mfr helps a lot.
Also, when he buys an amp for his subwoofers, it'd be helpful to prepare for upgrades. Why? Because 90% of people that add a subwoofer end up disliking the overall sound of their system a month later, and want to do the rest of the car. A lot of purchases like line drivers, etc. are unnecessary in well planned systems.
If the current head unit is a factory one, that's a little different story than if it's an aftermarket one. Is it a factory unit?
Mr._Miyagi on 09/23/2006 04:25:46
yeah it is currently factory, and we are going to have the install profesionally done cuz I don't want to mess up his beemer.
MrBrownstone on 09/23/2006 15:27:22
Sounds good
In the beginning, I would suggest a bigger subwoofer amplifier. The only reason is that when he comes to sell it later in his car audio career, a 300W amp is going to be hard to unload. Memphis 1000D, Crossfire 1000, Infinity, DEI, Alpine, etc. Most amps that put out 900-1000W are going to work best. Especially if he listens to rap because that's some demanding muzak.
As far as subwoofers, try to do some preemptive planning on the system. Only buy woofers that you likely would also buy component speakers from the same manufacturer. This keeps the equipment looking uniform and avoids the 7 manufacturers in one car problem.
You could do all Infinity, All CDT, All Alpine, Quart, etc.. of course, it's not a requirement. You could even do all Infinity amps & speakers!!!
WHatever you decide, just make certain he buys keepers for amps & speakers. Spending ENOUGH money will assist in both getting your money's worth, and avoiding the ghetto effect.
Mr._Miyagi on 09/23/2006 21:42:40
Hey so update to the situation...We went to this shop called LA Rims and got convinced to buy an amp and two 12" subs by a company called Arc Audio (arcaudio.com). The dude selling was this intimidating but funny Armenian guy who has been doin installs since 91 and has opened a few shops. It was strange, he was saying how JL Audio and Alpine are like "micky mouse s---" and such. Anyhow, my friend ended up signing his life away and dropping $1600 bucks for the 2 twelves, the amp, box, install, rcas etc. He bought the stuff today cuz the guy pulled the car dealer move and went "this price is today only". Anyhow, have any of you guys heard of Arc Audio? I looked it up and it was only started in 1998 but it seems to have a pretty good repuation.
MrBrownstone on 09/23/2006 22:57:32
ARC is no doubt a great manufacturer. However they are way overpriced. Zapco is another overmarketed company.
He will not be dissatisfied with the performance of the Arc products. They are great.
There are (or in his case) were 11 or 12 other manufacturers that would do the same job, but for 40 to 60% less cost. Anyone that badmouths JL Audio is a salesperson trying to get in your pants. PERIOD.
JL started the multiple voice coil woofer idea in cars. They pioneered a lot of technology and are the standard in reliability. Like saying the Dodge Viper is Mickey Mouse sheet because my Ferrari is better.
Bear in mind, they both have the same 0-60, both very cool, but the Viper is $50,000 less costly. Just because it is foreign or not well known doesn't make it a better product for performance.
Hey, at least he didn't buy Legacy :=)
swez on 09/24/2006 09:52:01
Your friend has an option... cancel the deal, get his money back and shop elsewhere. This is the law and buyer's who get muscled or hussled by such tactics can legally back out of the deal on the 3 day clause. You might have your friend contact the BBB and see how many complaints have been registered against this business.
Anyone who bad-mouths JL needs a reality check. This is a common technique used by shops who cannot get authorized JL products. They don't have it, cannot sell it and therefore... it's junk and they push what they do have on hand.
Arc is a nice product line. But as Mr. B. says, it's very over priced for what one gets. Basically, your friend got hussled and lacks the skills to negotiate, (push back) for a good deal. This can happen to anyone that is not prepared with adequate research, doesn't know the market value of what is offered and just get sucked in by a slick pitch with a good stinger in the tail. (Read... walk out the door and look elsewhere to do business)
Fortunately, your buddy may have recourse and can cancel the deal if he has not paid the bill upfront. Even if he was naive enough to pay the bill (before the work is done) to his complete satisfaction, he can still get his power and money back under the 3 day clause. ("Buyer's Remorse")
This clause is normally applied in buying a car or real estate. However, it may play well for a good poker player who know how to bluff and calls his credit card/banking company to stop the transaction before the work is done. Otherwise, your friend has just been royally screwed over by a fast talking scheister. Welcome to life in a big city.
Good luck,
swez
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 16:26:15
Hey Swez so a few questions for if we are going to take this route. Since he bullied us into buying the stuff in the first place, without any additional advice or planning I think we may get bullied into either leaving part of the money (he paid a 50% deposit) or bullied into sticking with the deal in the first place. To be honest, we may have gotten screwed on the product (with it being overpriced and all) but the deal we got on the equipment was fair, not great but fair. So I guess we'd go into the store, and be like "Hey, we want our money back because through research we have found out that ARC, while a good product, is very over-priced and you used bullying tactics to make us commit on the day we came in. Furthermore, under the 3 day clause we know we have the right to get our full money back and if you don't oblige we will contact the BBB and report you." Any other suggestions for what we should say or bring with us? (besides a shank....this guy is one intimidating armenien)
thanks a bunch...we'll see how this goes and what route my friend wants to go.
Eli
MrBrownstone on 09/24/2006 17:07:33
If he's decidedly convinced that he spent too much money, and against the project, just tell the guy you overspent and cannot afford what you did.
If he hasn't done any install work, there's no cost to the store period! It's not like an open-heart surgeon that has to do 15 or 20 tests and scans and 5 consultations before getting something done. It's a friggin car stereo.
If he paid ccard or check, just tell the store you need a refund. You respect the quality of the equipment, but can't cover the cost. You can return the equipment, cancel the check/credit card charge, and that should be it.
When they question you, just tell him you got oversold and can't part with as much money as you originally budgeted. He'll then come back with '...here's a less expensive product that'll do fairly well..'
At that point, you know he definitely oversold you, AND, he's admitted guilt to overpricing his product. Again, there's NOTHING wrong with ARC. However, BRAX, HELIX, and about 15 other manufacturers do the high cost/high quality sell. Heck, What's the difference between Lexus and Toyota? Styling and amenities.
Do you really need leather seats on an amplifier?
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 17:14:46
Thanks a lot Mr. B, I haven't been able to contact my friend yet but assuming he does want to get out of the deal and we are able to successfully. What are the other high end manufacturers we should be looking at? My friend i can guess will probably only get out of it if he knows of a equal or better quality product at a cheaper price. JL Audio I assume since everyone was defending them, and what else? I wasn't able to find pricing on JL Audio's website so I'm not exactly sure which one would fit the situation. Thanks guys, I really appreciate the help and that you guys have our backs.
Eli
swez on 09/24/2006 17:31:52
There's really only one effective way to deal with a bully.... "Beat his brains out" and he'll be your best friend for life. Being nice to a bully, rarely works.
I understand how it feels to run up against strong personalities when we are not fully prepared and get beat up or taken advantage of. One feels out-gunned, out of their league and intimidated. That's not a good person to do business with.
May I suggest you go in there with a stronger personality type guy... 6'6", 280 lbs (football player) and demand his money back? Basically, the attitude here is... "I won't do biz w/ you Mr. Armenian Schmuck and I DEMAND my deposit back" !!! I also brought my friend Vito to help out if you don't cooperate.
Another thing you can do, is call the local PD in that neighborhood and see if you can have a uniformed policemen come in to the store with you. He will observe and serve as a referee and may be just enough show of legal force to get your friend's deposit back. If you can get a cop to come in with you, I'd bet Schmucky's demeanor will change dramatically.
How did your friend pay for the deposit? (Cash, CC or check?) There are other strategies in each case. The hardest one to get back, is a cash deposit.... read the terms of sale clauses on the invoice and you'll know what to expect.
Worst case scenario, he gets his gear, has it installed and pays the final balance when he is fully satisfied with the work. Yes, he may have paid too much and got pushed around by Schmucky this time. But it's a valuable lesson we all have to face at some point in our lives. Just be glad it wasn't a $10,000 deposit on some swamp land in Florida.
swez
PS Whenever we encounter guys/gals like this in life, it's best to either walk away and go elsewhere or, put on the boxing gloves and be ready to beat their brains out to soften them up a bit. Am only half kidding here as I don't condone physical violence. However, it takes a lot of skill and courage to deal with people like Schmucky.
I've done it many times now and it's still not fun. Schmucky is very skilled at such tactics. You fella's were just plain intimedated and did not have the composure to walk. Now, it's plan B... damage control and a hard lesson learned at a key point in life.
Good luck and hope this turns out well for your buddy!
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 17:51:42
He paid $300 in cash, 500 in credit. My friend seems to not want to put in the effort to get his money back but I think that it is worth it (though its his money not mine) since its essentially an $800 hassle. I think if I can come up with exact suggestions of something that is just as good or better, for a better price, he might come around. I know you guys have helped me out a lot so far with the arguement strategies but if you wouldn't mind, could you I ask for your help a bit further with regards to specific replacements?
P.S. We were going to go this coming friday to have the stuff installed. Thanks
Eli
cybersailor420 on 09/24/2006 19:34:21
It seems to me that the only way to convince your friend to ditch this plan would be to find another dealer, who carries a well known brand (alpine, jl, etc...), and get an equal or cheaper quote for the same work to be done with equipment of equal or better value.
long sentence, i know...
do the golds agree?
-Ian-
MrBrownstone on 09/24/2006 19:54:25
Besides JL Woofer I would recommend:
Amps (500 to 700W) PRICES ONLINE...likely higher in store.
Memphis 16-MCD500D $280 (online or a little more in store)
Crossfire VR-600d $325 (same)
JL Audio 1800D $390 (same)
Alpine MRD-M605 $260 (same)
DEI D600 $270 (same)
Infinity REF-1211A $370 (same)
PPI DCX 500.1 $320 (same)
Orion Orion 600D $300 (same)
If you can stomach another 40% more cost, you get about double the amp from the same manufacturers.
Subs (~300W RMS approx)
Infinity Kappa Perfect DVQ $220 (online or more in store)
Alumapro MX12 $220 (same)
Eclipse Aluminum SW7124DVC $210 (same)
Alpine
Boston Acoustic
Crossfire
MTX 7500 series (or higher) $180 (same)
CDT Audio HD Series (or higher)
PS With my recommendations, $900 is about what you'd be spending in stores. Installation should be easy, like $150 to install an amp, integrate wiring wiring with head unit and running wire to battery. $200 tops. Total ~$1100.
PPS If you wanted, you could buy the Memphis Belle and have the entire car amped for $300 more!!! Amazing how overpriced some brands are, huh?
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2622 Memphis Belle 75Wx4 + 1100Wx1
MrBrownstone on 09/24/2006 20:16:38
If they haven't done any work, just walk in and look angry. People cancel every day.
Mr._Miyagi on 09/24/2006 22:53:45
My friend doesn't want to get his money back because for some reason he feels like he wasn't cheated and he says the guy "just did his job" and he doesn't want to get his money back because he has too much "pride" to ask for his money back. Getting a fair deal by asking for your money back doesn't strike me as anything that should hurt ones' pride but he is decided so whatever. He will undoubtedly have a good sounding system and he will have learned a lesson I guess and since he seems ok with losing 1600 bucks, thats his choice I guess. Thanks for the help through this and for the suggestions, sorry I couldn't follow em.
Eli
swez on 09/25/2006 09:45:07
If your friend is satisfied with his deal, let him do it. Yes, you are trying to be a good buddy and that is commendable... CLAP
However, this has little to do with his pride... it's "seems" more like fear of getting bold and sticking up for himself. (Admitting he got stung, but leaving the stinger in to fester.) But as noted, it's his cash and his call.
The good news here, look how many good people are trying to help him out of a hole. Others who are also tracking this post will learn from someone elses mistakes too. This lesson is priceless to those who ARE paying attention. So, let the guy do this his way, take his lumps and learn the hard way.
FYI: Life in the real world, can be very much "Dog eat Dog". The sooner one wises up to that fact, the better off they will be in deeper matters that come along later.
Eli, you have done your best and he seems not willing to budge. So, the point is pretty much moot. If this fella has been cursed with growing up with a "Silver Spoon" all his life, he's not likely to see this as a setback. There's always more cake on the money tree when needed and he's not worried about picking as much as he desires. However, if the money tree goes bare someday or he has to fend for himself and struggle like most people do in the early years, it's OK and a valuable lesson in life.
Nuff said...
swez
Victor on 09/25/2006 11:07:29
I would love to have clients such as your friends.. hehehehehehehe........ And I have a whole lotta em too.....GRIN
swez on 09/25/2006 12:05:41
Yeah... me too. But I would be a whole lot more fair with them so that it's a win-win deal for everyone.
swez
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
