Hey everyone,
I got a very small pickup truck, with 2 10's behind the seat in truck boxes. I'm lucky they fit to begin with!. Behind the seat is a 2-3 indent of just ugly yellow foam. I decided i'ld cover it up with 2-3 inches of new black foam. it looks much much better, but it might jsut be my ears. Could the new foam lower my bass? It used to kick a lot better without the foam, therefor giving it more room. I can't tell if the new foam is touching the sub or not. is the new foam cuasing the problem, or is it just my ears?
thanks!
Replies (21)
swez on 09/5/2006 01:32:26
Sorry Lil, have no idea what you are talking about here. Can you try to splain it in a different way?
Foam can absorb frequencies if in front of a speaker cone. (Especially upper bass frequencies) Loss of punch and volume... Is that what you mean?
Swez
lilschtive on 09/5/2006 20:23:24
thats exactly what i mean
let me explain it this way. You have a sub, and you put foam 1-2 inches or less away from the sub.
swez on 09/5/2006 22:26:27
Got it... we're on the same page now!
Yes, the foam will tend to absorb bass and you may get more deep tones, but less upper bass kick. The foam is absorbing the bass energy.
Swez
lilschtive on 09/5/2006 23:15:55
The new foam my look better, but its not smart for optimum performance!''
thanks a ton
lil
swez on 09/6/2006 13:43:11
Yup
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 18:09:51
I just seen this post and decided, although it may be too late, give some input here. Yes, the foam is soft and porous, therefore it is asorbing, rather than reflecting the output from your subs. I take it you are:
1. trying to make it look better cosmetically.
and
2. trying to somewhat dampen your truck.
Some decent sound dampening will do both. Many varieties have paintable surfaces, those do not have paintable surfaces are made w/ a layer aluminum which is probably better cosmetically than some yellow or black foam.
As for improving the response from your subs, the dampening provides a flat reflective surface for the sound to reflect off. I think you will be quite happy about the results, and cosmetically it will look much better.
Yes, you can pretty install sound dampening to any surface. some adhere better than others; a few suggestions:
Fatmat, Dynamat Extreme, B-Quiet Ultimate. Try to stay away from cheaper version of these products b/c they tend not to stick well, as well as some have an odor that is hard to get rid of.
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 19:40:43
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g4137
just a FAQ link almost containing all info u need regarding sound damping..
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 20:12:05
Yes, I remember that post, very good info there, some smart remarks, etc...but overall very informative for those that are inexperienced in sound dampening. Good point victor.....................
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 20:18:27
ya what made me remember that post was Mr.B's ****... hehehe.. i mean the "Cowdung" remark...
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 20:33:00
Yes, but proven results are proven results....after many experiments and much trial and error, sound dampening can improve almost any mobile audio system.
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 20:54:56
ofcourse.. one thing i really dont understand is why people dont spend on the most important aspect of treating an acoustical environment.. they just buy loads of expensive stuff and dump it into the car.. and then complain about soo many things..
but they dont understand that until and unless they treat the interior asouctic of the car in the right manner they are never going to get desired results..
It has been soo hard to convince most of my customers to do this.. they are like,, our car is solid enuf it doesnt need sound dampin.. what ****... and they prefer buying a 1000wrms amp over a 600wrms amp thinking its much more powerful and better, but dont know the other responsibilities that come with more power and the pro's and con's of it..
indian market is still not open to this idea and its a PIA to convince them about this..
am writing an article on this to be published in the DEC issue of TopGear indian edition.. have been discussing this with swez.. shall mail it to anyone interested and inputs are all welcome..
Victor..
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 21:08:38
I'm always interested in anything dealing w/ mobile electronics. We have that problem here also. They want to spend $1000's of $'s on a system, no staging the speakers, no hand built enclosure, and then wonder why???? Here is a funny story victor, I think you and others may appreciate. I went up against this guy w/ 2 Memphis Mojo 12's and 2 1000 wRMS amps, his car rattled like a bucket of bolts, he could not figure out how his $5k worth of equipment was beat by a system of about $2k....He said "I could hardly hear it"....I explained to him about proper dampening of the car. He ended up spending like $300 on Dynamat Extreme, it really improved his overall SPL inside the car, however a few weeks later he came in and complained about how you could not hear his system....he actuallt had his friend drive the car up & down the street in front of the shop saying "see" "you can't hear it" I want people to hear my car blocks away.......so even when you do your best to make a customer happy, and do what YOU know is right, you cannot make everyone happy. This is why I no longer work in shops, 40% b/c of how shops want to make a profit and what they say and do to make a profit, and 60% customers. Now I freelance, and if some-one comes to me for an install, they know what they want.
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 21:20:29
hehe.. ya.. one of my clients did the same thing.. after getting the sound damping done.. he was like.. dude.. i cant hear the bass from a distance.. and i cant even feel it in my car now.. u have spoiled my setup , i want a earth shattering bass that makes my seats and rear view mirrors vibrate..
and i cud not explain him after hours of discussion that these were undesired vibrations and actually these have adverse effect on sound and drive quality..
a few guys come down and ask,, my system is $2000 and his is $1000 why aint my louder than his.. now is this a question anyone wud like to answer...lol... and this is the funniest part....hehehehehehehehehe...""my system has Alpine and his has JBL.. his is louder.. so JBL is better than Alpine..""
"""And... his system hits 130db's with one of that sub, I will have two.. shudnt it be twice as louder.. ie. 260db..lol...."""
what kinda math is that?????
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 22:00:20
It is called IGNORANCE! Being ignorant is not being stupid like most people think. Most people do not understand sound, they just know they want it loud, or clean, or want to be heard blocks away. Sound is basically produced by a speaker and the actual sound that reaches our ears is a reflection of the sound a speaker produces. The more you control the reflection of sound, the more defined it is to the human ear. We know this, but most people do not understand this, and don't want to try to understand. You see, people tend to want what others have, and when they are not happy, they use blame. We are taught this at young ages, blame is the easiest way out of anything.....
A select few people don't use blame, they use understanding and research, like us. It is the same as the capacitor debate, people tell me all the time how well they work, but the DMM(digital multimeter) tells the true story, even when you prove a case, most people will not admit you proved your case.
A guy I work with previously worked at ABC Warehouse, he thinks there is nothing in the world better than Directed, Polk, Infinity, and Rockford Fosgatem I tell him that there is much better equipment out there for similar prices, in some cases even less money. He won't have it. I took my friends car up there, which has JL Audio slash series amps, Focal 3-way components in the front stage, CDT Audio 6X9 2-ways, and Resonant Engineering SE 12's. The car sounds amazing. The first thing he said was you need to drop that cheap Eclipse radio and those cheap 6X9's and get some Infinty speakers, and get some Directed amps......we just smiled and my friend said, "yeah, I just may give that some thought".......There is a latin phrase that reads in translation "people tend to doubt what they do not understand" that pretty much explains the average car audio customer.
less
cybersailor420 on 09/13/2006 22:05:24
hahaha!!! who needs an A-bomb when you have two subs?! hahahaha!
Victor on 09/14/2006 18:46:19
hahahaha.. huh..!!! A-bomb.. where did they come from????
MrBrownstone on 09/14/2006 20:17:14
What's funny is that most 'manufacturers' use the same parts from the same factories...some even have the same company assemble their wares. The differences are marketing and minute specifications.
90% of the game is installation, 10% the equipment
lessismorespl on 09/15/2006 08:55:41
I would disagree w/ that. I have taken apart and repaired many amps, as well as built my own amp, board and all when I was in college. I notice similarities in mid grade amps, but many amps from reputable companyies use far more superior parts, they may come from silicone Valley and Japan, but the parts they use are very superior.
Your comment basically states there is no difference between, say a Pyramid amp and a JL Audio 500/1. Yet the JL amp slash series amps have several extended patents and the boards are very complex, and the Pyramid has a very small board, very small capacitors, very low grade transducers, and is not all that complex...it is kind of like the board I built in college...very basic.
Many of the parts are made in Japan and in factories in California, but as w/ most companies they make higher grade parts and lower grade parts. Some companies actually have the parts exclusively made for their company, JL Audio, Audison, and Braxx just to name a few. Some manufacturers, such as: Tru Technologies, Flextron's SPL Dynamics, and RCF Artesuono actually manufacture their own parts in sererate entities of their main company.
I do not believe any electronic device is junk, I believe some are just made better and uses better technology.....I can't help it, I studied Technology for 5 years in college and have been CEA/MECP ceritified for over 10 years, so it is in my blood to have faith in all devices. But when you get into the heart & soul of devices, there is a definate difference in the quality of parts used, the quality of the build, and the technology involved in the overall design.
It is much like building enclosures, you can make do w/ press board, even plywood, you can get a little better w/ particle board, or you can build a solid quality enclosure out of MDF or HDF. The results speak for themselves, they all suit their entended use, but the end results are very different. This has been tested time and time again.
less
Victor on 09/15/2006 10:22:09
I would agree to less and Mr.B and find common grounds..
Definitely Quality of products vary from different classes of manufacturers..
But at the same time.. If a low quality product is installed well it can sound better than a poorly installed high quality product..
Installation is definitely an important aspect .
But if both the grades of products are installed equally well there is no doubt that a higher grade product will surpass the other in terms of sound Quality.
Also what Mr.B states.. If a few high quality products are compared they mostly stand on same level when the quality of components used is compared, and so is the case with similar low end products..
And what less says... ofcourse one cant compare pyramid with JL, that wud be kinda stupid.
Victor...
lessismorespl on 09/15/2006 20:04:47
That was my point. Not disagreeing totally w/ Mr. B b/c I do not totally disagree, about either. Installation is the most important aspect of any sound system. My point was that different manufacturers may use the same suppliers, it does not mean they are using the same products. Mr. B's point is taken on fair terms. I have just been into the guts of many amps and there is a major diffrence in the quality of components used, as well as the build itself.
less
MrBrownstone on 09/17/2006 01:11:28
What I was alluding to is that there are about 20 speaker manufacturers that use the same parts, assembled in the same plant, designed by the same guys...they just paint them differently and market them differently.
Same goes with head units, amplifiers, etc. Even if someone uses 'higher quality' parts, who says that part was relevent or necessary? Like using a dodge Viper to go to the grocery store. A Civic will get you there at the same time as you can't utilize the 400hp of the viper between stoplights, in rush hour traffic, etc.
When an amp puts out 100Wx4 @ 1% THD, our ears can't hear the difference between circuitry...just a marketing ploy.
However, when a company RATES it's product at 100W and it puts out 35W, we have a different issue.
Therefore, when the 20 brands of speakers (and 14 lines of amplifiers) are made with the same parts, come from the same assembly plants (China & Korea), it really does come down to installation. Otherwise, if one brand's design was superior, they'd win 100% of DB Drag competitions, right? Same with IASCA.
That's my soapbox ranting for today. Join us tomorrow when Mr B, the authority on everything, review nudey bars in Las Vegas.
PS my point in the damping discussion of this spring was that to seal a box, you could spend $3.19 on silicon and it would seal a box. You could spend $55 on a suspicious substance and it would do the same thing as the matting. The remaining $41.81 could then be spent on router bits and whatever the demo girl was selling.
I got a very small pickup truck, with 2 10's behind the seat in truck boxes. I'm lucky they fit to begin with!. Behind the seat is a 2-3 indent of just ugly yellow foam. I decided i'ld cover it up with 2-3 inches of new black foam. it looks much much better, but it might jsut be my ears. Could the new foam lower my bass? It used to kick a lot better without the foam, therefor giving it more room. I can't tell if the new foam is touching the sub or not. is the new foam cuasing the problem, or is it just my ears?
thanks!
Replies (21)
swez on 09/5/2006 01:32:26
Sorry Lil, have no idea what you are talking about here. Can you try to splain it in a different way?
Foam can absorb frequencies if in front of a speaker cone. (Especially upper bass frequencies) Loss of punch and volume... Is that what you mean?
Swez
lilschtive on 09/5/2006 20:23:24
thats exactly what i mean
let me explain it this way. You have a sub, and you put foam 1-2 inches or less away from the sub.
swez on 09/5/2006 22:26:27
Got it... we're on the same page now!
Yes, the foam will tend to absorb bass and you may get more deep tones, but less upper bass kick. The foam is absorbing the bass energy.
Swez
lilschtive on 09/5/2006 23:15:55
The new foam my look better, but its not smart for optimum performance!''
thanks a ton
lil
swez on 09/6/2006 13:43:11
Yup
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 18:09:51
I just seen this post and decided, although it may be too late, give some input here. Yes, the foam is soft and porous, therefore it is asorbing, rather than reflecting the output from your subs. I take it you are:
1. trying to make it look better cosmetically.
and
2. trying to somewhat dampen your truck.
Some decent sound dampening will do both. Many varieties have paintable surfaces, those do not have paintable surfaces are made w/ a layer aluminum which is probably better cosmetically than some yellow or black foam.
As for improving the response from your subs, the dampening provides a flat reflective surface for the sound to reflect off. I think you will be quite happy about the results, and cosmetically it will look much better.
Yes, you can pretty install sound dampening to any surface. some adhere better than others; a few suggestions:
Fatmat, Dynamat Extreme, B-Quiet Ultimate. Try to stay away from cheaper version of these products b/c they tend not to stick well, as well as some have an odor that is hard to get rid of.
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 19:40:43
http://www.clubknowledge.com/cgi-bin/car_audio_faq/faq.cgi?g4137
just a FAQ link almost containing all info u need regarding sound damping..
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 20:12:05
Yes, I remember that post, very good info there, some smart remarks, etc...but overall very informative for those that are inexperienced in sound dampening. Good point victor.....................
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 20:18:27
ya what made me remember that post was Mr.B's ****... hehehe.. i mean the "Cowdung" remark...
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 20:33:00
Yes, but proven results are proven results....after many experiments and much trial and error, sound dampening can improve almost any mobile audio system.
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 20:54:56
ofcourse.. one thing i really dont understand is why people dont spend on the most important aspect of treating an acoustical environment.. they just buy loads of expensive stuff and dump it into the car.. and then complain about soo many things..
but they dont understand that until and unless they treat the interior asouctic of the car in the right manner they are never going to get desired results..
It has been soo hard to convince most of my customers to do this.. they are like,, our car is solid enuf it doesnt need sound dampin.. what ****... and they prefer buying a 1000wrms amp over a 600wrms amp thinking its much more powerful and better, but dont know the other responsibilities that come with more power and the pro's and con's of it..
indian market is still not open to this idea and its a PIA to convince them about this..
am writing an article on this to be published in the DEC issue of TopGear indian edition.. have been discussing this with swez.. shall mail it to anyone interested and inputs are all welcome..
Victor..
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 21:08:38
I'm always interested in anything dealing w/ mobile electronics. We have that problem here also. They want to spend $1000's of $'s on a system, no staging the speakers, no hand built enclosure, and then wonder why???? Here is a funny story victor, I think you and others may appreciate. I went up against this guy w/ 2 Memphis Mojo 12's and 2 1000 wRMS amps, his car rattled like a bucket of bolts, he could not figure out how his $5k worth of equipment was beat by a system of about $2k....He said "I could hardly hear it"....I explained to him about proper dampening of the car. He ended up spending like $300 on Dynamat Extreme, it really improved his overall SPL inside the car, however a few weeks later he came in and complained about how you could not hear his system....he actuallt had his friend drive the car up & down the street in front of the shop saying "see" "you can't hear it" I want people to hear my car blocks away.......so even when you do your best to make a customer happy, and do what YOU know is right, you cannot make everyone happy. This is why I no longer work in shops, 40% b/c of how shops want to make a profit and what they say and do to make a profit, and 60% customers. Now I freelance, and if some-one comes to me for an install, they know what they want.
less
Victor on 09/13/2006 21:20:29
hehe.. ya.. one of my clients did the same thing.. after getting the sound damping done.. he was like.. dude.. i cant hear the bass from a distance.. and i cant even feel it in my car now.. u have spoiled my setup , i want a earth shattering bass that makes my seats and rear view mirrors vibrate..
and i cud not explain him after hours of discussion that these were undesired vibrations and actually these have adverse effect on sound and drive quality..
a few guys come down and ask,, my system is $2000 and his is $1000 why aint my louder than his.. now is this a question anyone wud like to answer...lol... and this is the funniest part....hehehehehehehehehe...""my system has Alpine and his has JBL.. his is louder.. so JBL is better than Alpine..""
"""And... his system hits 130db's with one of that sub, I will have two.. shudnt it be twice as louder.. ie. 260db..lol...."""
what kinda math is that?????
lessismorespl on 09/13/2006 22:00:20
It is called IGNORANCE! Being ignorant is not being stupid like most people think. Most people do not understand sound, they just know they want it loud, or clean, or want to be heard blocks away. Sound is basically produced by a speaker and the actual sound that reaches our ears is a reflection of the sound a speaker produces. The more you control the reflection of sound, the more defined it is to the human ear. We know this, but most people do not understand this, and don't want to try to understand. You see, people tend to want what others have, and when they are not happy, they use blame. We are taught this at young ages, blame is the easiest way out of anything.....
A select few people don't use blame, they use understanding and research, like us. It is the same as the capacitor debate, people tell me all the time how well they work, but the DMM(digital multimeter) tells the true story, even when you prove a case, most people will not admit you proved your case.
A guy I work with previously worked at ABC Warehouse, he thinks there is nothing in the world better than Directed, Polk, Infinity, and Rockford Fosgatem I tell him that there is much better equipment out there for similar prices, in some cases even less money. He won't have it. I took my friends car up there, which has JL Audio slash series amps, Focal 3-way components in the front stage, CDT Audio 6X9 2-ways, and Resonant Engineering SE 12's. The car sounds amazing. The first thing he said was you need to drop that cheap Eclipse radio and those cheap 6X9's and get some Infinty speakers, and get some Directed amps......we just smiled and my friend said, "yeah, I just may give that some thought".......There is a latin phrase that reads in translation "people tend to doubt what they do not understand" that pretty much explains the average car audio customer.
less
cybersailor420 on 09/13/2006 22:05:24
hahaha!!! who needs an A-bomb when you have two subs?! hahahaha!
Victor on 09/14/2006 18:46:19
hahahaha.. huh..!!! A-bomb.. where did they come from????
MrBrownstone on 09/14/2006 20:17:14
What's funny is that most 'manufacturers' use the same parts from the same factories...some even have the same company assemble their wares. The differences are marketing and minute specifications.
90% of the game is installation, 10% the equipment
lessismorespl on 09/15/2006 08:55:41
I would disagree w/ that. I have taken apart and repaired many amps, as well as built my own amp, board and all when I was in college. I notice similarities in mid grade amps, but many amps from reputable companyies use far more superior parts, they may come from silicone Valley and Japan, but the parts they use are very superior.
Your comment basically states there is no difference between, say a Pyramid amp and a JL Audio 500/1. Yet the JL amp slash series amps have several extended patents and the boards are very complex, and the Pyramid has a very small board, very small capacitors, very low grade transducers, and is not all that complex...it is kind of like the board I built in college...very basic.
Many of the parts are made in Japan and in factories in California, but as w/ most companies they make higher grade parts and lower grade parts. Some companies actually have the parts exclusively made for their company, JL Audio, Audison, and Braxx just to name a few. Some manufacturers, such as: Tru Technologies, Flextron's SPL Dynamics, and RCF Artesuono actually manufacture their own parts in sererate entities of their main company.
I do not believe any electronic device is junk, I believe some are just made better and uses better technology.....I can't help it, I studied Technology for 5 years in college and have been CEA/MECP ceritified for over 10 years, so it is in my blood to have faith in all devices. But when you get into the heart & soul of devices, there is a definate difference in the quality of parts used, the quality of the build, and the technology involved in the overall design.
It is much like building enclosures, you can make do w/ press board, even plywood, you can get a little better w/ particle board, or you can build a solid quality enclosure out of MDF or HDF. The results speak for themselves, they all suit their entended use, but the end results are very different. This has been tested time and time again.
less
Victor on 09/15/2006 10:22:09
I would agree to less and Mr.B and find common grounds..
Definitely Quality of products vary from different classes of manufacturers..
But at the same time.. If a low quality product is installed well it can sound better than a poorly installed high quality product..
Installation is definitely an important aspect .
But if both the grades of products are installed equally well there is no doubt that a higher grade product will surpass the other in terms of sound Quality.
Also what Mr.B states.. If a few high quality products are compared they mostly stand on same level when the quality of components used is compared, and so is the case with similar low end products..
And what less says... ofcourse one cant compare pyramid with JL, that wud be kinda stupid.
Victor...
lessismorespl on 09/15/2006 20:04:47
That was my point. Not disagreeing totally w/ Mr. B b/c I do not totally disagree, about either. Installation is the most important aspect of any sound system. My point was that different manufacturers may use the same suppliers, it does not mean they are using the same products. Mr. B's point is taken on fair terms. I have just been into the guts of many amps and there is a major diffrence in the quality of components used, as well as the build itself.
less
MrBrownstone on 09/17/2006 01:11:28
What I was alluding to is that there are about 20 speaker manufacturers that use the same parts, assembled in the same plant, designed by the same guys...they just paint them differently and market them differently.
Same goes with head units, amplifiers, etc. Even if someone uses 'higher quality' parts, who says that part was relevent or necessary? Like using a dodge Viper to go to the grocery store. A Civic will get you there at the same time as you can't utilize the 400hp of the viper between stoplights, in rush hour traffic, etc.
When an amp puts out 100Wx4 @ 1% THD, our ears can't hear the difference between circuitry...just a marketing ploy.
However, when a company RATES it's product at 100W and it puts out 35W, we have a different issue.
Therefore, when the 20 brands of speakers (and 14 lines of amplifiers) are made with the same parts, come from the same assembly plants (China & Korea), it really does come down to installation. Otherwise, if one brand's design was superior, they'd win 100% of DB Drag competitions, right? Same with IASCA.
That's my soapbox ranting for today. Join us tomorrow when Mr B, the authority on everything, review nudey bars in Las Vegas.
PS my point in the damping discussion of this spring was that to seal a box, you could spend $3.19 on silicon and it would seal a box. You could spend $55 on a suspicious substance and it would do the same thing as the matting. The remaining $41.81 could then be spent on router bits and whatever the demo girl was selling.
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