My setup includes a JL 500/5 powering JL XR 6.5 components in front, JL XR 5.25 coaxes in rear, and a single JL 10w6 in 0.88 sealed center console. I have an exztra pair of JL XR tweeters and have considered adding them up in the factory dash locations. I have heard that a second pair of tweeters up front can be used to "raise" the soundstage. If I add them onto the front channels (100w x2) of my amp w/ proper crossovers, will any power be drawn away from my front components?
My concern is that I won't have the same amount of power going to my door speakers, that I do now, if I add the dash tweeters.
Replies (11)
Ash on 07/30/2006 20:44:21
Where are the component set tweeters located at?
With the extra set being the exact same as the ones used in the comp set, I don't see this as a problem.
It would be even better if you had a way to attenuate them accordingly so you will still get a good high/mid tonal balance. Being of aluminum, the extra set may make the sound brighter as well as extending the stage.
Part of the trick of raising the soundstage and any other imagery is the speakers ability to not be easy located by the ears. If the tweets play too strong (in combination with other tweets), this could foul up the tonal balance and make the sound unreal. Thus drawing the ears towards the source.
This can be easily avoided if proper aiming and attenuation is used. Try it and see what the results are. If they are too strong, perhaps you can run them off the HU. Another option would be to run a resistors in line to reduce power going to them, but I would save that for a last resort.
metanium on 07/30/2006 20:53:27
Thanks Ash! I have the component tweets surface-mounted high in the door panels. They are mounted at the front-most, top corners of the panels. I can easily attenuate the component tweets, as they have either 3 or 4 jumper positions on the crossover. The xtra tweets could be attenuated if they are too bright/loud. What value of resistor would I likely use on them? I think the XR tweeters are 8 ohm.
Ash on 07/30/2006 23:25:15
I tried to find a manual for the XR tweets. Wasn't able to locate a online one. Attenuation for the ones for the dash install is what might be needed. This is a might so let's not jump the gun before trying the first option. What kind of crossover is included with them.
As for the tweets that came with the midwoofers, with this setup your trying, it would be best if they were located closer to the midwoofer. This should produce less phase issues. If this is not possible, play around with the settings to see what sounds best to you.
swez on 07/31/2006 00:13:07
CDT has been marketing the "UP Stage" ambient tweeter idea for some time now. They sell a tweeter add on kit that includes variable resitance attentuators. (Potentiometers, crossover and tweets)
You can do the same basic idea with fixed or variable resistors. The reisitors are mounted between the amped source and the crossover input stage. The Crossover gets controlled voltage from the amplifer outputs and funnels tweeter frequencies to assigned tweets.
Since these are 8 ohm tweeters, they will have a -3dB cut in power VS a 4 ohm system. Here, you may want to consider using your HU amplifiers to power these tweeters. If the tweeters are high in efficiency, (+88dB SPL@ 1watt @ 1 meter) they need very little power to get the job done.
Locating them well, is the key to getting the most from such an add on.
CDT has been suggesting users mount them in the "A" pillers or at the front of the dash, aiming them at the windshield, slightly below the rear view mirror. (Not firing at the driver or passenger directly) Some degree of experimentation is a good idea, before mounting them permanently.
http://www.cdtaudio.com/cdt10lp.htm
Neat sound ideas for an Dodge Ram Truck:
http://www.cdtaudio.com/dodgeram.htm
Comments?
Swez
metanium on 07/31/2006 00:30:02
Thanks for the input. That Dodge truck link was impressive and inspirational. I think I will run them off the HU. A veru easy wiring job, BTW.
On another note, My HU an Eclipse CD 8445 has stopped working with the wireless remote. I tried a second remote, which also didn't work, so I think it must be the HU, not the remote. Any ideas? I use the remote alot because of the poor truck/HU ergonomics I have.
swez on 07/31/2006 01:15:36
Check your reset button on the HU. It may have gone into a default setting that does not recognize your remote.
A very simple way to reset a HU and all other vehicle controls back to original default modes, is to pull the Neg BAT post terminal for about 10 seconds. Then reconnect and reset your station presets and other HU functions as needed.
CAUTION: If your HU is passcode protected, make sure you know the code before doing either of these steps. (The HU manual may have details about this as well)
http://www.eclipse-web.com/download/pdf/05cd-150.pdf
You may wish to contact Eclipse about the remote problems. They may be familiar with it and can tell you spacifically what to do:
http://www.eclipse-web.com/contact/index.html
Swez
PS Did you check the remote battery? They don't last forever. Nice HU there bud. This has everything in it but a cup holder! GRIN
Ash on 07/31/2006 06:53:30
Cup holder? It probably needs the remote for that function.
swez on 07/31/2006 10:52:46
Probably right!
I take it the extra summer heat is starting to get to ya there Ash??? Same here Bro... dang it's been a regular "Finlander's Sauna" here, (Michigan) the past 4 days. Have not seen upper 90's and low 100's this early in a summer in over 15-20 years.
I can only imagine what it feels like in the deep south at this time of year... Whoa Nelly, even the mosquitoes won't come out until well after dark 'cause it's just too muggy.
Hummm, just checked today's forecasts for PC and Detroit burbs... Looks pretty much the same here as there. PC is just a tad bit more humid today, but the "Real Feel Index" is just a few points higher in PC than here. Have a look: 8>(
PC, FL: http://wwwa.accuweather.com/forecast-hourly.asp?partner=accuweather&myadc=0&traveler=1&zipcode=32401&metric=0
GC, MI: http://wwwa.accuweather.com/forecast-hourly.asp?partner=accuweather&myadc=0&traveler=1&zipcode=48135&whend=1&whent=19&metric=0
metanium on 08/3/2006 22:19:35
It's been 105 for the past 2-1/2 weeks here! Maybe that's why my HU's remote stopped working. NO really, thanks for the advice about a reset. My HU has a small reset button on the front. I'll push it tomorrow morning before I head to work. I never thought I would want to use a remote in a car, but after seeing how much easier it was to navigate through a MP3 disc, I can't stand not having it. There's no doubt it's safer (eyes stay on the road, not reaching over in a large truck, etc.) than w/o it.
I think I'll wire up the xtra tweeters this weekend and see how they do. If they don't help I'm giving them to my brother.
swez on 08/4/2006 11:46:34
When using the reset function, expect to loose some custom feature settings. All circuits return to factory default settings and you'll have to go back into the menus and manually change them to your preferences.
As for the remote, make sure the face panel is clean and free of finger prints, dust and other contaminations. If the remote sensor gets to smudged, it can cause the remote to stop working.
Also. don't overlook the obvious... a fresh battery in the remote might be all that is needed. Most batteries will last about a year, depending on how much it is used.
Swez
Ash on 08/5/2006 13:33:51
Just remember, proper placement can mean a world of difference. Run some temporary wire to them and move them around some with different angles and such to see what sounds best. Double sided sticky tape pads can help before permanently mounting.
My concern is that I won't have the same amount of power going to my door speakers, that I do now, if I add the dash tweeters.
Replies (11)
Ash on 07/30/2006 20:44:21
Where are the component set tweeters located at?
With the extra set being the exact same as the ones used in the comp set, I don't see this as a problem.
It would be even better if you had a way to attenuate them accordingly so you will still get a good high/mid tonal balance. Being of aluminum, the extra set may make the sound brighter as well as extending the stage.
Part of the trick of raising the soundstage and any other imagery is the speakers ability to not be easy located by the ears. If the tweets play too strong (in combination with other tweets), this could foul up the tonal balance and make the sound unreal. Thus drawing the ears towards the source.
This can be easily avoided if proper aiming and attenuation is used. Try it and see what the results are. If they are too strong, perhaps you can run them off the HU. Another option would be to run a resistors in line to reduce power going to them, but I would save that for a last resort.
metanium on 07/30/2006 20:53:27
Thanks Ash! I have the component tweets surface-mounted high in the door panels. They are mounted at the front-most, top corners of the panels. I can easily attenuate the component tweets, as they have either 3 or 4 jumper positions on the crossover. The xtra tweets could be attenuated if they are too bright/loud. What value of resistor would I likely use on them? I think the XR tweeters are 8 ohm.
Ash on 07/30/2006 23:25:15
I tried to find a manual for the XR tweets. Wasn't able to locate a online one. Attenuation for the ones for the dash install is what might be needed. This is a might so let's not jump the gun before trying the first option. What kind of crossover is included with them.
As for the tweets that came with the midwoofers, with this setup your trying, it would be best if they were located closer to the midwoofer. This should produce less phase issues. If this is not possible, play around with the settings to see what sounds best to you.
swez on 07/31/2006 00:13:07
CDT has been marketing the "UP Stage" ambient tweeter idea for some time now. They sell a tweeter add on kit that includes variable resitance attentuators. (Potentiometers, crossover and tweets)
You can do the same basic idea with fixed or variable resistors. The reisitors are mounted between the amped source and the crossover input stage. The Crossover gets controlled voltage from the amplifer outputs and funnels tweeter frequencies to assigned tweets.
Since these are 8 ohm tweeters, they will have a -3dB cut in power VS a 4 ohm system. Here, you may want to consider using your HU amplifiers to power these tweeters. If the tweeters are high in efficiency, (+88dB SPL@ 1watt @ 1 meter) they need very little power to get the job done.
Locating them well, is the key to getting the most from such an add on.
CDT has been suggesting users mount them in the "A" pillers or at the front of the dash, aiming them at the windshield, slightly below the rear view mirror. (Not firing at the driver or passenger directly) Some degree of experimentation is a good idea, before mounting them permanently.
http://www.cdtaudio.com/cdt10lp.htm
Neat sound ideas for an Dodge Ram Truck:
http://www.cdtaudio.com/dodgeram.htm
Comments?
Swez
metanium on 07/31/2006 00:30:02
Thanks for the input. That Dodge truck link was impressive and inspirational. I think I will run them off the HU. A veru easy wiring job, BTW.
On another note, My HU an Eclipse CD 8445 has stopped working with the wireless remote. I tried a second remote, which also didn't work, so I think it must be the HU, not the remote. Any ideas? I use the remote alot because of the poor truck/HU ergonomics I have.
swez on 07/31/2006 01:15:36
Check your reset button on the HU. It may have gone into a default setting that does not recognize your remote.
A very simple way to reset a HU and all other vehicle controls back to original default modes, is to pull the Neg BAT post terminal for about 10 seconds. Then reconnect and reset your station presets and other HU functions as needed.
CAUTION: If your HU is passcode protected, make sure you know the code before doing either of these steps. (The HU manual may have details about this as well)
http://www.eclipse-web.com/download/pdf/05cd-150.pdf
You may wish to contact Eclipse about the remote problems. They may be familiar with it and can tell you spacifically what to do:
http://www.eclipse-web.com/contact/index.html
Swez
PS Did you check the remote battery? They don't last forever. Nice HU there bud. This has everything in it but a cup holder! GRIN
Ash on 07/31/2006 06:53:30
Cup holder? It probably needs the remote for that function.
swez on 07/31/2006 10:52:46
Probably right!
I take it the extra summer heat is starting to get to ya there Ash??? Same here Bro... dang it's been a regular "Finlander's Sauna" here, (Michigan) the past 4 days. Have not seen upper 90's and low 100's this early in a summer in over 15-20 years.
I can only imagine what it feels like in the deep south at this time of year... Whoa Nelly, even the mosquitoes won't come out until well after dark 'cause it's just too muggy.
Hummm, just checked today's forecasts for PC and Detroit burbs... Looks pretty much the same here as there. PC is just a tad bit more humid today, but the "Real Feel Index" is just a few points higher in PC than here. Have a look: 8>(
PC, FL: http://wwwa.accuweather.com/forecast-hourly.asp?partner=accuweather&myadc=0&traveler=1&zipcode=32401&metric=0
GC, MI: http://wwwa.accuweather.com/forecast-hourly.asp?partner=accuweather&myadc=0&traveler=1&zipcode=48135&whend=1&whent=19&metric=0
metanium on 08/3/2006 22:19:35
It's been 105 for the past 2-1/2 weeks here! Maybe that's why my HU's remote stopped working. NO really, thanks for the advice about a reset. My HU has a small reset button on the front. I'll push it tomorrow morning before I head to work. I never thought I would want to use a remote in a car, but after seeing how much easier it was to navigate through a MP3 disc, I can't stand not having it. There's no doubt it's safer (eyes stay on the road, not reaching over in a large truck, etc.) than w/o it.
I think I'll wire up the xtra tweeters this weekend and see how they do. If they don't help I'm giving them to my brother.
swez on 08/4/2006 11:46:34
When using the reset function, expect to loose some custom feature settings. All circuits return to factory default settings and you'll have to go back into the menus and manually change them to your preferences.
As for the remote, make sure the face panel is clean and free of finger prints, dust and other contaminations. If the remote sensor gets to smudged, it can cause the remote to stop working.
Also. don't overlook the obvious... a fresh battery in the remote might be all that is needed. Most batteries will last about a year, depending on how much it is used.
Swez
Ash on 08/5/2006 13:33:51
Just remember, proper placement can mean a world of difference. Run some temporary wire to them and move them around some with different angles and such to see what sounds best. Double sided sticky tape pads can help before permanently mounting.
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