Hey Guys,
How's everyone's summer going? Just a quick question regarding HU preamp voltage. I currently have an Alpine 9851 HU with a 2V preamp rating. I am potentially looking to upgrade to a HU with a higher preamp voltage(4-5). Does preamp voltage at a higher rating improve the overall sound of a system? In my case JL Audio amps will be used(1000/1, 2ea 300/2). I have read topics where people have upgraded their HU to a higher preamp voltage and experienced a major increase in output from their amps. What is your take on this theory?
Also since we are on the topic of head units, could you guys reccomend a few top of the line brands with higher than 2V preamp output. I am perfectly capable of researching different features to suite my needs, just need reccomendations for brands. Alpine HU's have always been good to me, however I can't find a unit with a preamp voltage above 2. Any feedback is always greatly appreciated.
Demetrios
Replies (25)
swez on 07/20/2006 13:16:07
Most good amps (Like your JL's) can easily reach full output with as little as 0.5 volt signals from the HU. The newer HU's in midline products seem to be shifting to a 2.0 volt pre-out system. It works just fine if we set the amp gains properly and have minimal noise problems to contend with. (Ground loops)
Higher RCA voltage is good for giving better signal to noise ratios to a given amp. The higher the RCA voltage, the less noise the amp will see and amplify as well. If you don't have a problem with noise now, no real reason to change HU's.
FYI: You can just add a Line Driver/EQ and get the same benefits w/o the higher costs of replacing an good HU. A good EQ/Line driver can be had for well under $100.00. Many are 1/2 Din size and can be mounted under a 1 Din HU in the HU pocket.
If you like the HU you have now and want some expanded features like multi-band EQ, separate volume controls for Front, Rear and Sub amps and a line driver that can deliver up to 8 volts output, let's talk!
Swez
demetman on 07/21/2006 01:07:39
Thanks for the clarification Swez. I will be using an Audio Control DQX EQ with the above mentioned products. It wasn't untill recently that I heard of upgrading to HU's with a higher preamp output waking up(so to speak) external amplifiers in a given system. If you feel there is no real signal amplification benifit in using a HU with a higher preamp voltage I will stick with the basic Alpine 9851.
By the way Swez, in my last post BI-Wiring VS Conventional Wiring to my A/D/S/ 346 CS comps I mentioned visiting a JL Audio authorized dealer in my area. Last week I did just that and had an excellent talk to the owner of a family owned and operated business that has been around for 10+ years. I explained what I was looking for and my goal for my up in coming project. Dave was very knowledgable and mor than willing to take the time to make reccomendations and explain detailed info. In the end pricing on JL products(12W7 and custom tuned enclosure, 1000/1+ 300/2 with wiring were extremely competative. I have finally found an audio shop where I will be happy to spend my hard earned money. I will still be doing the install myself, just purchasing JL products from this shop. I would like to consult you every step of the way for an extremelly knowledgable and professional opinion. Swez, I consider you my mentor and value your opinions and advice. Thanks for your support.
Demetrios
swez on 07/21/2006 14:12:18
Well thank you for the kuddo's! I do appreciate the kind words.
Yes, having a great shop in town makes all the difference. Especially if they carry high end gear and take time to map things out with you as well. That's a great place to do business with!
Yes, you can run things by me as needed and I will do my best to help you get the best results possible too. If you want to chat on Yahoo IM, Skype.com or do private e-mails, am available for that as well.
That AC DQX is a fine product. It has plenty of EQ-ing power and many excellent features. This one is pretty complex to set upo if you use all the features and capabilities it has. The DSP circuits are excellent for fine tuning and balancing out all amps, HU preamp voltages and prevents clipping via indicators during setup mode.
One real plus on this Digital Processor is that it can deliver Balanced or unbalanced signals to a give set of amps. JL amps have the same feature and using the Balanced control feature insures clean power under all operating conditions. This is not a feature most installers understand very well. Talk to Dave at the shop about this feature and see how much he is familiar with that feature.
Basically, in a balanced line system we have a center pin RCA for the + signal path. Then a 2nd wire for the - return signal path. Finally, a shielded ground is used to fully isolate the signals from noise that is often present in poorly grounded or multi-grounded systems. Here, one can pretty much eliminate "ground loop noise" problems and get a very strong, clean preamp signal from the DQX to all amps in the chain. This is an excellent co-processor!!!
Swez
I consider it a pleasure to help guys who take the time to learn, do things right the 1st time and follow instructions well.
ttocs on 07/21/2006 14:37:08
you can always try adding a line driver to see if it makes a difference in the sound. They can run from $20-100 depending on the brand but it will give you a higher pre-amp voltage on your rca's. They are easy to connect so you could find out if you like it or not and return it if you don't.
demetman on 07/24/2006 01:10:48
Don't mention it Swez, just giving credit where credit is due. During my first consultation with Dave at Eagle Mobile Audio we discussed sound processing and my interest in using th Audio Control DQX (based on a reccomendation by you and Victor from a previous post). Dave is unfortunately not an Audio Control guy, however his senior tech is. To be honest with you Swez, I never used a sound processor EQ and I am not familiar with a great deal of it's features. This excites me because I will study the manual, ask lots of questions and spend a lot of time trying to figure out this complex piece of equipment. I have been researching this product and have been comparing the DQX with the DQT processor which has many of the same features slightly simplified minus the crossover and the amount of outputs. Would the crossover feature of the DQX be beneficial for the products I will be using in my system( JL 1000/1, 2ea 300/2 and potentially 450/4) when the fully adjustable crossovers of the amplifiers will be used? Price is not a deciding factor here just choosing what makes the most sence in this application. I am interested to learn as much as possible in the subject of processors and EQ-ing and what the right processor can do for system adjustment and fine tuning. What do you think? Talk to you later. Thanks
Demetrios
PS scott both the DQX and DQT have line drivers built in.
demetman on 07/26/2006 22:23:31
Swez,
I visited Audio Control's web site and downloaded the DQX manual today. After reading all 28 pages I may just look for an authorized dealer to purchase and install this digital processor. Extremelly complicated and complex process to use this impressive piece of equipment to it's full potential. Also, a good RTA is essential for best results.
Demetrios
ttocs on 07/26/2006 22:36:26
Those jl amps all have good x-overs built in. I would use those as they are a good quality adjustable x-over, you should not need more...
demetman on 07/27/2006 00:58:56
Ok, Scott do you reccomend using a sound processor absent of a crossover feature such as the Audio Control DQT model. The manual for the DQX does not speak of intergrading processor crossover filters with amplifiers crossover filters and leaves me confused at the end. After some research on EQ and sound processors, I would like to use one in my system. Any info or ideas is greatly appreciated.
Demetrios
swez on 07/27/2006 02:03:35
Your JL amps have very good crossovers in them. No need to buy anything that duplicates that function. (Yuck... too much salt on this one Beanie)
Will have to review the DQX manual and can give you some comments on it afterwards. Even though these sound processors are complex in features, they are pretty straight forward to use. The best way to understand complex systems, are to break them down into small, managable bites. Then chew on each one until you have a very clear understanding of how each option works.
Once we get that established, it's just a matter of "integration". Pulling all the basic features (ingredients) together and tweaking for the best results. It's just like being a Master Chef... a dash of this and a splash of that and Viola! You made a great tasting entree.
The flip side of that coin, too much of one ingredient and too little of another and "splat" this stuff tastes nasty... hand me the trash can please. Abort and try again. LOL
For now, just study and learn the basics well. Once you have the fundamentals of a good recipe, then get cooking and spread the good food around for others to sample.
Swez
demetman on 07/27/2006 10:35:56
Thanks for helping me realize that the crossover features of the DQX are not needed in my my situation. I'm going to take a look at the DQT manual, which should be better suited for my needs(and less expensive).
Demetrios
swez on 07/27/2006 13:28:52
OK, looked at the DQT and it may not work out adequately for all the amps you are planning to use. The DQT has many great features. However, one key feature it lacks, are multiple outputs to feed several amplifier channels. You mentioned what... a single JL 1000/1 for subs and a pair of JL 300/2's? (pls confirm that)
The DQT only has 1 pair of RCA inputs & outputs. However, your amps net out to what... 6 inputs? (2 inputs for the 1000/1 and 2 inputs for each 300/2 right?) I am not certain the DQT is the best option here as there is a limited number of outputs, (1 pair) and you need at least 3 pairs)
1 pr., for sub amp
1 pr., for 300/2 Front speakers
1 pr., for 300/2 Rear speakers
That would mean a nest of RCA "Y" adapters at the very least and a wiring nightmare.
Here, the EQX may be your best bet here. It requires only 1 pair of inputs and offers 4 pairs of outputs.
Full Range 1 pair RCA's (Front speaker amp)
High Pass 1 pair (Rear speaker amp)
Low Pass 1 pair (Rear speaker or sub amp)
Sub out 1 pair (Sub out only)
This EQ has active crossovers you can use and just "defeat" the amplifier crossovers. The output voltage is 2.0 volts per channel. (Adequate for JL amps) But no line driver functions to raise RCA outputs above 2.0 volts.
It also has 6, 1/2 octave Bass EQ and 7 bands full range EQ, a PMF Subsonic filter and one Full range, 1 HPF, 1 LPF and 1 Sub MONO output pairs.
Wow !!! This is one complex processor kit. Am not sure how to advise you on using this device properly as the manual does not show a 3 amp configuration. I will defer any additional comments and suggest you contact Audio Control, explain the configuration you plan to use and see what they recommend.
I would hope this EQX is able to power all 3 amps mentioned and deliver adequate output signal voltages to all amps in the system. That's what you'll need to know. (And how to do this properly)
Swez
PS Dang sorry DEM, am a bit foggy today... had a low back injury earlier this week and the pain meds are definitely messing up the logic circuits, (high level brain functions) that we depend on so much to process technical details like this. Normally, I can do all this in a matter of 15-20 minutes. Today, this has taken over an hour to pull things together... but am not trusting my accuracy either. (O' Foggy Day)
Yes, the pain is less an issue, but the undesirable side effects really mess up other parts of the cognitive and logic functions in the brain too... Whoopie! It's like taking a trip to La-La Land, but never left the farm. I'm definitely going back to bed and sleep it off. hehe Good night nurse...
demetman on 07/28/2006 03:25:09
No worries Swez, rest your mind and body to help recoup from what I hope not to be a serious back injury. For the pain meds, life shore could be tough at times with and without them. Let me do some head work here to see if I can get some technical support from Audio Control regarding an EQX.
To confirm your question regardinng amps used, yes a1000/1 for 12w7, 300/2 for a/d/s/ 346cs comps and after this equipment is installed I will address the potential need for MB drivers powered by a second 300/2 or running a 450/4 to MB drivers and rear fill speakers. I will take this one step at a time to see where frequancies are lacking.
OK Bud, take it easy for a while
demetman on 07/28/2006 03:26:23
No worries Swez, rest your mind and body to help recoup from what I hope not to be a serious back injury. For the pain meds, life shore could be tough at times with and without them. Let me do some head work here to see if I can get some technical support from Audio Control regarding an EQX.
To confirm your question regardinng amps used, yes a1000/1 for 12w7, 300/2 for a/d/s/ 346cs comps and after this equipment is installed I will address the potential need for MB drivers powered by a second 300/2 or running a 450/4 to MB drivers and rear fill speakers. I will take this one step at a time to see where frequancies are lacking.
OK Bud, take it easy for a while and hope you feel better soon.
Demetrios
ttocs on 07/28/2006 16:23:58
double up on the pain meds and you will be fine. Hope it isn't too serious. You were not out playin rugby again were ya?
swez on 07/28/2006 22:08:27
Rugby? Hummm, can one play Rugby with waders and a 9.0 ft pole in hand? Yes, it definitely felt like a Rugby match thing this week. We all know ttocs loves mountain biking. But heck bro, you're probably 20 + years younger too. Try it when you hit 50. (Am sure some can too)
Thanks guys... this was a very strange event. Have been dealing with chronic lower back pain for years and every so often, it flairs up and I get some nasty spasms. Oh well, we just deal with it and press on huh?
Well, to work out the kinks, I took a night off to go fly-fishing. This often helps as I wade in deeper waters and much body weight is displaced by water, so i/o 210 lbs (+15 lbs of gear) on dry land, am more like 125 lbs in water at waist high. Also, the fly casting motions "can be very good" for the body if it's smooth, rythmic and one is well balanced when one works long line casts. (Mine usually are now-a-days... experience) It takes solid casting techniques to "shoot a line" some 40 + feet out on a fly rod. Feels great to drop a small bug/fly 45-50 feet out and watch a fish rise and take off with it.
Anyway, I hooked into a pretty good size Largemouth Bass this time. We tussled it out for a few minutes and then, this wise ol Bass, took to the weed beds and buried itself deep. I could not horse this one out w/o risking a line snap. (Did not want to lose the fish nor my most productive home-made orange popper)
So... I went in after it. As I was wading my way toward the weeds, all was well, kept a tight line and slowly made my way in from a waist deep sandy bottom stretch, to a mucky, marly spot where this fish was hunkered down. I could not see the bottom as the water was pretty merky and water clarity was about 18-24" deep at best.
All of a sudden, my left foot took a long and unexpected step into a deep trench. (Could not see it, nor avoid it as I did not see it coming) Went fom waist high water to chest high water in one step. It was like stepping out a doorway with an 18" drop and not knowing that sudden drop was there.
Yowwwie!!! That was a sudden shock to the already tender low back and I felt a sharp tear in the lower back muscles. Dang... that really hurt!!! Well, I got out of that hole OK and moved in on that fish. I was determined to make that fish pay for such a sneaky-pete, game of hide and seek. Finally reached a spot about 10 feet from where the fish was dug in and began to coax it out of its' hiding spot.
After a few minutes of jockying, I found just the right angle and pressure to free this ol gal from her hiding place. She took a few short runs and leaps, (typical Bass action) I finally landed a nice, fat female Largemout Bass. (A 10 minute event)
Sure enough, that popper was firmly hooked in her thick jaw and she would never be lost, unless the line broke! Whew... this was a nice match and this time, Ol Swez came out on the winning end. (or so it seemed then)
I finally got her close enough to slip my thumb into her lower jaw and hoisted her out of the water. Viola! A nice, fat female Bass, beautiful color, markings and no signs of previous injuries. Measured it out to about 16 inches on my rod and figured about 2-1/2 lbs. A very nice catch on a fly-rod guys. CLAP
I carefully removed the hook and gently placed her back in the water and revived her with a few passes of water through her gills and let her swin off on her own power when revivied. (The proper way to release a spent fish)
Was so full of adrenlyn and endorphins, so I did not really feel the "ensuing burn" for about 30 minutes. But as the endorphins finally wore off, that's it... I'm done and going home. Tired, sore but satified that its was a good night. Yeah, paid a good price the rest of this week, but it's getting better and back to OTC pain relievers. "Aleve" seems to do a pretty good job, w/o the narcotic side effects.
Results:
3 Largemout bass (12", 16" and a 5" bait sized one)
2 nice Rock Bass (about 10-12", 1 lb ea.)
2 fat Blugills (about 3/4 lbs ea.)
Swez
PS OK, some are not "hard-core" fishermen here. We all know fisherman tend to "stretch the yarn" a bit too. But, that's half the fun of fishing alone. Noone there to say otherwise. GRIN I'll be back at em by the Sunday or so. Wish me luck...
demetman on 07/31/2006 17:15:26
Nice story Swez! Sounds like quite an adventure to land that bugger. Never had an opportunity to fish a stream or river, sounds like a blast. Here in NJ we do quite a bit of jetty fishing and "spikes", or jetty dancing shoes are a must to navigate the seaweed covered rocks. No shortage of rewards from the rocks during the Striper run.
Some people would say us hardcore fisherman are nuts, and in several ways we are. Nothing beats the first hook-up of the day. Have fun and be careful chasing those fish.
swez on 07/31/2006 21:30:51
Yep, we have to use felt soled waders or boots in the summer as algae builts up on rocks and slate showles. This stuff is slipperier than snot on a well waxed floor, (Major dog sneezes and such) by mid-summer in some locales.
Had my first real encounter with that, late this Spring, while fishing a large river in Ohio for Walleye. The currents are very fast and the water is so badly stained in color there, you cannot see your feet in 4 inch deep water. Here, the waters are fast (4-7 mile current) and can be pretty deep in some spots too. (wading depths of 40" is about the safe limit) Above that limit, a man becomes more or less, like a cork in the water. (More float than standing put) Wheeeee
The rocky bottom changes topography and the substrates vary from sandy to rocky sands to sheets of shale. The larger boulders are also a risky adventure. If you bump into a large one and cannot see where it lies and it's covered with slime, a sure trip into the river.
It's not too bad in the early Spring as water temps are around 38-42 degrees and no algea to contend with. But if you fall in, better hope others down stream hear you coming and pull you out before the rocky rapids beat you sense-less. Then, get back to a warm vehicle ASAP as hypothermia can take a man down in less than 15 minutes.
Yeah, some say fishins' for old men and whimps... actually, it's the young bucks who get the most injuries, due to inexperience and false bravado. A wise old fisherman who is a bit unsteady, always takes his wading staff. It acts like a 3rd leg on a stool or tripod. Keeps one very steady and if he does loose traction, that staff can save his life.
Finally, Strippers are the schnitz on light to medium rigs in the lower Midwest. (IN, KY & TN) They grow a fresh water hybrid there. These are the freight trains of freh water fishing and much like Muskie or large Northern Pike, only faster and stronger.
Took a trip to TN with my old g/f and a good buddy of mine who knows the area well. (Pro Basser) We had a very slow start to the day, but around 4:00 PM, the dinner bell rang and these things went on a feeding rampage. They hunt in large schools here. There might be dozens to over 100 in a pack at feeding time. They chase the bait fish into pockets and ambush them from the bottom to top of the water. It's easy to figure out where they are feeding as the shad and such they feed on, come to the surface in large numbers and create a roil that can be spotted from 200 yards out or more. Just get your boat close enough to cast among them, match the bait they are feeding on and look out for some real fun.
The 3 of us caught like 90 fish while our partners in another boat managed over 100 between the two of them. It was all over just before dark and 90 minutes of catching these wild fighters will wear you out. Sizes ranged from an average of 2.5-4.0 lbs. A few were closer to 6 lbs. On light tackle, it's a blast. I loved Stripper fishing, once we found them feeding. But prior to that, it was hours of bordome and searching for active fish.
Swez
PS My buddy now lives in Knoxville, TN. He sent me a pic of his great catch in April... a 40 lb Stripper!!! What a monster.
Now you tell your stories there Dem... am sure some will want to read about your outings. (I sure would)
demetman on 08/2/2006 01:19:29
I love talking fish story with those who are interested! As you are already aware, I grew up In New Jersey in a small town called Sea Isle City. I have always been interested in the ocean whether it is fishing, surfing or just exploring. Got my first pole for christmas at 6 yrs old and broke it in half that same day casting around the house.
At 32 yrs old my passion for fishing lies in the fall northern migration of Striped Bass. During the months of Oct-Dec large pods of striped bass make their winter migration from North Carolina to around Maine as they gourge on menhadden(adult bunker). I have spent many years studying feeding habits, migration patterns and how weather and moon phases and tide stages effect Striped Bass. As you know Swez, fishing is a science and their are many things one must master to catch big fish on a consistant basis. Wow Swez, it's 1:30am already and I have a huge work load tomorrow. Well at the least, a little back ground info about me. To be continued tomorrow night after work. I'm hitting the hay. Night my friend.
Demetrios
swez on 08/2/2006 06:46:41
Keep talking as you have time. I'd like to hear more about the Stripper habits in the NE. Been down to SW Florida a few times in the early Winter months though. Have talked to folks that fish the brackish water inlets from the Gulf of Mexico and they have some very interesting stories too. Next trip down, will bring some gear and see what I can do with the Cravelle Jacks.
To date, have had few opportunities for Salt Water fishing. 8-( But living in the Midwest all my life, (MI and IL) it's all fresh water species here. In the northern parts of the MW, we have Northern Pike, Muskie, Walleye, 5 types of Salmonoids, 4 trout species, Large & Smallmouth bass and a pile of pan fish to play with.
Like you say, fishing is truly a science study and knowing about each species habitats, feeding preferences, spawning times and water patterns they prefer. That comment about moon phases is also a factor here, but tidal changes are less a factor for inland waters. (Except for the Great Lakes)
Like you, I started fishing at an early age as my Dad loved fishing. He took us camping each summer and then he'd hit the fall trout runs in September. That got all 3 boys in our clan on the bandwagon about fishing. Dad did not teach us much in a formal way, but he took us out and showed us the basics. The rest, we picked up on as we got older.
Dale, (Twin Bro) has been into fly fishing a lot the past 25 years. My younger Bro, (Jimmy) has been hitting the lakes for Walleye and Salmon the past few years. Trolling in a boat, is one of the most boring kinds of fishing I have experienced to date. It's great if one finds a pile of schooling fish like Walleye, Perch, Norther Pike, Muskellunge or Salmon. But finding them and getting to the right depth and water temperatures are a study all on its own.
Last summer, Dale got me back on the fly rod. Dang, was I ever rusty on this style of fishing. It took about 3 weeks of practice to get the motion down to a point that a decent delivery was possible. Not withstanding, the hodge-podge of gear I had on hand, was not well balanced nor quality gear either.
That first season was more or less a learning experience. (Read... excersizes in frustration) But, with time, practice and a whole lot of getting skunked while Dale was pulling in fish, finally started to get the hang of things. Within 6-8 weeks, both our fish counts were well up there and the funny thing was, I managed the bigger ones, most of the time.
Why? Used the same basic things I had learned while spin-casting.
1. Read the water conditions well
2. Look for the hiding spots and exploit those to the max
3. Want larger fish, use larger baits
Well, it paid off after 3 months. I started making some fly rod size bass baits with Rubber worms, scuds and larger format streamers. These are a lot harder to cast well on a cheap rig. But once the "Chuck and Duck" delivery system was understood and applied proficiently, the bigger fish came into the game plan regularly. Dale caught plenty of "Dinkers", but I was after the big ones. Dale did pretty well on Rock Bass and Smallies. I concentrated on the Smallies and other larger fish that lurked the rivers we frequented. That strategy paid off well in the final season counts. Yes, Dale did catch more fish, but Dave got most of the big ones last year. We ended the 2005 season well and as for fly fishing, Dave wa hooked too!
The story goes on and gets even better in 2006. Will share some of that later. Now, it's your turn to light the after-burners and share some of your adventures about Fall running Strippers and whatever else
you've been venturing out for. Get your fingers on the keyboard and expand on your annual treks.
Tight lines to you my friend, SMILE
Swez
demetman on 08/3/2006 00:05:18
Just read your post regarding that ungrateful and ignorant kid who didn't hold up to his end of the bargain. That kind of story makes me even more grateful that my parents did a great job raising me to be polite, respectful, curtious and thankful for things people do to help one other. In case I haven't told you Golds lately, I appreciate all your help and opinions and due to you willingness to share knowledge through experience I have grown and expanded my knowledge in several areas. Swez, I often wish I lived close enough to you to have an opportunity to work on my project with someone as knowledgable as you. That's how you really learn. Ok enough but kissin let's talk fishing.
I have never been lucky enough to own a boat, so my approach to hunt for stripers is usually on foot. Stripers are heavy feeders at night (do to very sensative eyes) and this is when I enjoy targeting them. Now, the Stripers that are migrating up the coast range in size from Spikes 6" to 40, 50, and even 60# cows. An East coast average weight is around 10#. During the run I am fully dialed into weather conditions (especially approaching low pressure areas) and the tides for a given inlet area. Stripers are smart fish and use structure to ambush prey. Bridge fishing is extremelly exciting and challenging to land large Bass. On many knights one can walk up on a bridge and spot several large stripers swimming in the shadow line caused by the lights on the bridge. Imagine walking up a bridge allowing your eyes to adjust to the dark and spotting a 30# Striper cruising the shadows awaiting it's next victim.Thats what I live for.
For baits I primarily use plastic lures on lead heads, bucktails tipped with different colored twister worms and replicas of several different species of baitfish and eels that stripers feed upon. Technique will vary depending upon location and stage of tide. On structure, such as a bridge I cast into the tide and a slow retreive with the current either on top or bottom usually finds hungry bass.
To be continued Swez, I need some ZZZZZZ.
Demet
swez on 08/3/2006 10:49:37
Is that a little "Brown Nosin" I detect from the gallery? Awww shucks! Keep it up 'cause we all need a little encouragement from time to time... hehe
Funny you said that comment about coming out for a visit to get your install done. The last guy I worked for, came from Washington DC and was on his way to So Cal. We had a great time working together and got to know a bit about mobile audio in the process. He stayed 2 nights and we wrapped it all up in 2.5 days. Yes, it took longer than usual as we had to fix some earlier work that didn't quite make the grade. The worst part was the hot, sticky weather we had back then. That meant frequent water breaks and getting out fresh sweat towels too. Brutal, but very productive.
The previous guy was from Indiana. (ttocs' home state) That job took about the same amount of time, but we had 6 hands in the game. Most of the time consumption was doing sound dampening on the front, rear doors and rear wall of his 2005 F-150 Crew Cab. This guy bought some nice gear to the party too. JL 300/4, JL 500/1, Infinity Comps for up front and Infinity Coaxials w/ crossovers in back. (2 ohm systems) He used the Nakamichi CD-400 HU, Bahn AEQ-6 and Knukonceptz wiring for the whole sha-bang. The sub was a custom 10" from Pro Box. A single ported 10, can do amazing things in a smaller cabin like this. It was a total stealth too. You could not see anything but the dash HU and EQ.
Nice story about the Strippers along the coast. Must be quite a site to spot a monster 30#'er lurking in the shadows. Is that stretch mentioned wadable? If it were safe and wadable, imagine the possibilities.
Bridge and pier fishing can be tough as hooking a fat one probably demands that you walk it back to a shoreline to land it? We have those here too. (The Great Lakes have many piers to fish from) When the Salmon run is on in late September through early December, the dams, bridges and piers get pretty nutty with drunks and beligerant Yaa-hoos. I don't consider them sportsmen or true anglers either. They are clueless on fishing etiquette and the unwritten rules a good angler always follows. Go figure huh?
Go on with your story when you get time... am enjoying the tails (errr.. tales) and such. Fish on and you can have the speakers' chair too. I'll sit in the wings and listen to your glorious fishing stories. 8-)
Swez
PS Boston is under 800 miles to Detroit. If you get some slack time in the Fall and want to make a road trip, we might be able to work something out??? Better ask the wife though. She may want a say in all that too. hehe Think about it... serious like eh?
demetman on 08/10/2006 00:24:55
Hey Swez sorry for the long delay to reply. I have had a tremendously busy 10 day stretch at work with our key guy on a trip to Irleand. I have the day off tomorrow so I thought I would see what is going on as of late.
As far as potentially making a road trip in the fall I have been giving it a lot of thought and it sounds like fun. Even mentioned it to the wife (Christine) without much of a reply. I would certainly be very grateful to utilize your skills and expertise with the project I have lined up. It would be nice get away from the Jersey Shore after a crazy busy summer of hustle and bustle. Let's discuss thisin more detail when you have some time.
PS when I regain some energy I will get back to the fishing post
catch you later
Demetrios
swez on 08/10/2006 00:54:07
Sounds like a possible plan and I guess the best thing to do now, is figure out what you need to have done, have the gear on hand and soften up the wife about going on a solo road trip for a few days???
Think about spending some extra time with her between now and then, lots of extra TLC and then say...
"Honey, I need some guy type alone time for a few days".
If she's a happy camper, the answer will be an unreserved "YES... go and have a good time woofering and tweeting your self as much as you want."
However, if you can't manage to fill up her "I'm feeling very well cared for lately tank", she may give ya some major flack.
In that case, best not to even think out a trip until she's a "Happy Honey" again. Trust me on this one Dem, I've done this the wrong way many times, until I figured out how to fill her TLC tank. Once that tank is full, you're home free to a definite YES!!!
A very important part of keeping and maintaining a happy marriage, is keeping each others' TLC tanks above 3/4 full. Yeah, you heard me right... you're the boss... as long as she says it's OK and don't ever forget it. hehe
Have a peaceful weekend and we'll chat more as needed.
Swez
demetman on 08/10/2006 16:55:21
Hear ya loud and clear brother. Both TLC tanks are low these days do to our conflicting work schedules and lack of quality time spent together. Just a few more weeks to go and I'll have the necessary quality time to make my wife happy. Christine is very cool and understanding when it comes to my hobbies and time spent away. I don't forsee any problems going away for a few days.
Starting Sept.11 the restaurant is closed Mon-Thurs and after the 8th of Oct (my 1 yr anniversary) the restaurant is closed Sun-Thurs. I'm sure you work during the week so our schedules may not allow this to happen. Let me know what you think and we can discuss more details later. Thanks
Demetrios
swez on 08/10/2006 18:31:02
My current schedule does vary a lot as a sub-contactor. Work has been lite and slow the 2nd qtr of this year with short bursts of pure madness in between. In short, I have to take things pretty much day by day and perhaps a P/T job for the winter will be needed.
So, noting that, we might both benefit by slack in both our schedules sometime next month or October. It's not out of the question to schedule something in the latter part of next month.
If you wish to talk off the board, feel free to hit my e-mail with details and such. We can go over a plan, make sure you have all the stuff needed and then strike a time frame when it is best for all.
swezdp@juno.com
Christine sounds like a very cool lady. Just wait out the long dry spell between ya'll and restore that bond, before you take a ride. She's probably your biggest fan and hopefull the feelings are mutual. As the old saying goes... "If Momma is happy, everybody's happy... If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". It's so true huh? hehe
Marriage is a lot of give and take in the beginning. That prepares us for the real challenges that come later... starting and raising a family. Once the babies come along, chaos and the fatigue factor become bond makers or deal breakers. File that pearl of ancient wisdom for later... you will need it and a good sense of humor too.
Swez
PS It's been said that "idleness is the Devil's workshhop" right? Well, he's got a new one to play us with now... "Busy-ness is the ultimate weapon now". If he can keep us preoccupied with busy-ness, we have little time to see him under-mining the most important things any man/woman can have:
Peace in the mind (A clear mind is a prodactive mind)
Peace in the home (A content family, is what we all desire)
A balanced lifestyle (Work, play and the family is blending well)
A group of deep friendships (We all need a few deep friendships)
Time for recreation and reflection (Unplug, get out of the Rat-race and find our center again, before the next round of challenges come back)
PSS I don't mean to preach or pry into anyone's business. However, after watching others and living through a major maritial melt-down in my own marriage, I feel compelled to speak up and help others avoid the same deep pit. It's easy to step into that pit, and very hard to get out of it intact. Trust me on this one Demetrios... divorce is a no-winners' game. (BIG TIME) Oh, except the lawyers. They get paid, no matter what the outcome. SAD
How's everyone's summer going? Just a quick question regarding HU preamp voltage. I currently have an Alpine 9851 HU with a 2V preamp rating. I am potentially looking to upgrade to a HU with a higher preamp voltage(4-5). Does preamp voltage at a higher rating improve the overall sound of a system? In my case JL Audio amps will be used(1000/1, 2ea 300/2). I have read topics where people have upgraded their HU to a higher preamp voltage and experienced a major increase in output from their amps. What is your take on this theory?
Also since we are on the topic of head units, could you guys reccomend a few top of the line brands with higher than 2V preamp output. I am perfectly capable of researching different features to suite my needs, just need reccomendations for brands. Alpine HU's have always been good to me, however I can't find a unit with a preamp voltage above 2. Any feedback is always greatly appreciated.
Demetrios
Replies (25)
swez on 07/20/2006 13:16:07
Most good amps (Like your JL's) can easily reach full output with as little as 0.5 volt signals from the HU. The newer HU's in midline products seem to be shifting to a 2.0 volt pre-out system. It works just fine if we set the amp gains properly and have minimal noise problems to contend with. (Ground loops)
Higher RCA voltage is good for giving better signal to noise ratios to a given amp. The higher the RCA voltage, the less noise the amp will see and amplify as well. If you don't have a problem with noise now, no real reason to change HU's.
FYI: You can just add a Line Driver/EQ and get the same benefits w/o the higher costs of replacing an good HU. A good EQ/Line driver can be had for well under $100.00. Many are 1/2 Din size and can be mounted under a 1 Din HU in the HU pocket.
If you like the HU you have now and want some expanded features like multi-band EQ, separate volume controls for Front, Rear and Sub amps and a line driver that can deliver up to 8 volts output, let's talk!
Swez
demetman on 07/21/2006 01:07:39
Thanks for the clarification Swez. I will be using an Audio Control DQX EQ with the above mentioned products. It wasn't untill recently that I heard of upgrading to HU's with a higher preamp output waking up(so to speak) external amplifiers in a given system. If you feel there is no real signal amplification benifit in using a HU with a higher preamp voltage I will stick with the basic Alpine 9851.
By the way Swez, in my last post BI-Wiring VS Conventional Wiring to my A/D/S/ 346 CS comps I mentioned visiting a JL Audio authorized dealer in my area. Last week I did just that and had an excellent talk to the owner of a family owned and operated business that has been around for 10+ years. I explained what I was looking for and my goal for my up in coming project. Dave was very knowledgable and mor than willing to take the time to make reccomendations and explain detailed info. In the end pricing on JL products(12W7 and custom tuned enclosure, 1000/1+ 300/2 with wiring were extremely competative. I have finally found an audio shop where I will be happy to spend my hard earned money. I will still be doing the install myself, just purchasing JL products from this shop. I would like to consult you every step of the way for an extremelly knowledgable and professional opinion. Swez, I consider you my mentor and value your opinions and advice. Thanks for your support.
Demetrios
swez on 07/21/2006 14:12:18
Well thank you for the kuddo's! I do appreciate the kind words.
Yes, having a great shop in town makes all the difference. Especially if they carry high end gear and take time to map things out with you as well. That's a great place to do business with!
Yes, you can run things by me as needed and I will do my best to help you get the best results possible too. If you want to chat on Yahoo IM, Skype.com or do private e-mails, am available for that as well.
That AC DQX is a fine product. It has plenty of EQ-ing power and many excellent features. This one is pretty complex to set upo if you use all the features and capabilities it has. The DSP circuits are excellent for fine tuning and balancing out all amps, HU preamp voltages and prevents clipping via indicators during setup mode.
One real plus on this Digital Processor is that it can deliver Balanced or unbalanced signals to a give set of amps. JL amps have the same feature and using the Balanced control feature insures clean power under all operating conditions. This is not a feature most installers understand very well. Talk to Dave at the shop about this feature and see how much he is familiar with that feature.
Basically, in a balanced line system we have a center pin RCA for the + signal path. Then a 2nd wire for the - return signal path. Finally, a shielded ground is used to fully isolate the signals from noise that is often present in poorly grounded or multi-grounded systems. Here, one can pretty much eliminate "ground loop noise" problems and get a very strong, clean preamp signal from the DQX to all amps in the chain. This is an excellent co-processor!!!
Swez
I consider it a pleasure to help guys who take the time to learn, do things right the 1st time and follow instructions well.
ttocs on 07/21/2006 14:37:08
you can always try adding a line driver to see if it makes a difference in the sound. They can run from $20-100 depending on the brand but it will give you a higher pre-amp voltage on your rca's. They are easy to connect so you could find out if you like it or not and return it if you don't.
demetman on 07/24/2006 01:10:48
Don't mention it Swez, just giving credit where credit is due. During my first consultation with Dave at Eagle Mobile Audio we discussed sound processing and my interest in using th Audio Control DQX (based on a reccomendation by you and Victor from a previous post). Dave is unfortunately not an Audio Control guy, however his senior tech is. To be honest with you Swez, I never used a sound processor EQ and I am not familiar with a great deal of it's features. This excites me because I will study the manual, ask lots of questions and spend a lot of time trying to figure out this complex piece of equipment. I have been researching this product and have been comparing the DQX with the DQT processor which has many of the same features slightly simplified minus the crossover and the amount of outputs. Would the crossover feature of the DQX be beneficial for the products I will be using in my system( JL 1000/1, 2ea 300/2 and potentially 450/4) when the fully adjustable crossovers of the amplifiers will be used? Price is not a deciding factor here just choosing what makes the most sence in this application. I am interested to learn as much as possible in the subject of processors and EQ-ing and what the right processor can do for system adjustment and fine tuning. What do you think? Talk to you later. Thanks
Demetrios
PS scott both the DQX and DQT have line drivers built in.
demetman on 07/26/2006 22:23:31
Swez,
I visited Audio Control's web site and downloaded the DQX manual today. After reading all 28 pages I may just look for an authorized dealer to purchase and install this digital processor. Extremelly complicated and complex process to use this impressive piece of equipment to it's full potential. Also, a good RTA is essential for best results.
Demetrios
ttocs on 07/26/2006 22:36:26
Those jl amps all have good x-overs built in. I would use those as they are a good quality adjustable x-over, you should not need more...
demetman on 07/27/2006 00:58:56
Ok, Scott do you reccomend using a sound processor absent of a crossover feature such as the Audio Control DQT model. The manual for the DQX does not speak of intergrading processor crossover filters with amplifiers crossover filters and leaves me confused at the end. After some research on EQ and sound processors, I would like to use one in my system. Any info or ideas is greatly appreciated.
Demetrios
swez on 07/27/2006 02:03:35
Your JL amps have very good crossovers in them. No need to buy anything that duplicates that function. (Yuck... too much salt on this one Beanie)
Will have to review the DQX manual and can give you some comments on it afterwards. Even though these sound processors are complex in features, they are pretty straight forward to use. The best way to understand complex systems, are to break them down into small, managable bites. Then chew on each one until you have a very clear understanding of how each option works.
Once we get that established, it's just a matter of "integration". Pulling all the basic features (ingredients) together and tweaking for the best results. It's just like being a Master Chef... a dash of this and a splash of that and Viola! You made a great tasting entree.
The flip side of that coin, too much of one ingredient and too little of another and "splat" this stuff tastes nasty... hand me the trash can please. Abort and try again. LOL
For now, just study and learn the basics well. Once you have the fundamentals of a good recipe, then get cooking and spread the good food around for others to sample.
Swez
demetman on 07/27/2006 10:35:56
Thanks for helping me realize that the crossover features of the DQX are not needed in my my situation. I'm going to take a look at the DQT manual, which should be better suited for my needs(and less expensive).
Demetrios
swez on 07/27/2006 13:28:52
OK, looked at the DQT and it may not work out adequately for all the amps you are planning to use. The DQT has many great features. However, one key feature it lacks, are multiple outputs to feed several amplifier channels. You mentioned what... a single JL 1000/1 for subs and a pair of JL 300/2's? (pls confirm that)
The DQT only has 1 pair of RCA inputs & outputs. However, your amps net out to what... 6 inputs? (2 inputs for the 1000/1 and 2 inputs for each 300/2 right?) I am not certain the DQT is the best option here as there is a limited number of outputs, (1 pair) and you need at least 3 pairs)
1 pr., for sub amp
1 pr., for 300/2 Front speakers
1 pr., for 300/2 Rear speakers
That would mean a nest of RCA "Y" adapters at the very least and a wiring nightmare.
Here, the EQX may be your best bet here. It requires only 1 pair of inputs and offers 4 pairs of outputs.
Full Range 1 pair RCA's (Front speaker amp)
High Pass 1 pair (Rear speaker amp)
Low Pass 1 pair (Rear speaker or sub amp)
Sub out 1 pair (Sub out only)
This EQ has active crossovers you can use and just "defeat" the amplifier crossovers. The output voltage is 2.0 volts per channel. (Adequate for JL amps) But no line driver functions to raise RCA outputs above 2.0 volts.
It also has 6, 1/2 octave Bass EQ and 7 bands full range EQ, a PMF Subsonic filter and one Full range, 1 HPF, 1 LPF and 1 Sub MONO output pairs.
Wow !!! This is one complex processor kit. Am not sure how to advise you on using this device properly as the manual does not show a 3 amp configuration. I will defer any additional comments and suggest you contact Audio Control, explain the configuration you plan to use and see what they recommend.
I would hope this EQX is able to power all 3 amps mentioned and deliver adequate output signal voltages to all amps in the system. That's what you'll need to know. (And how to do this properly)
Swez
PS Dang sorry DEM, am a bit foggy today... had a low back injury earlier this week and the pain meds are definitely messing up the logic circuits, (high level brain functions) that we depend on so much to process technical details like this. Normally, I can do all this in a matter of 15-20 minutes. Today, this has taken over an hour to pull things together... but am not trusting my accuracy either. (O' Foggy Day)
Yes, the pain is less an issue, but the undesirable side effects really mess up other parts of the cognitive and logic functions in the brain too... Whoopie! It's like taking a trip to La-La Land, but never left the farm. I'm definitely going back to bed and sleep it off. hehe Good night nurse...
demetman on 07/28/2006 03:25:09
No worries Swez, rest your mind and body to help recoup from what I hope not to be a serious back injury. For the pain meds, life shore could be tough at times with and without them. Let me do some head work here to see if I can get some technical support from Audio Control regarding an EQX.
To confirm your question regardinng amps used, yes a1000/1 for 12w7, 300/2 for a/d/s/ 346cs comps and after this equipment is installed I will address the potential need for MB drivers powered by a second 300/2 or running a 450/4 to MB drivers and rear fill speakers. I will take this one step at a time to see where frequancies are lacking.
OK Bud, take it easy for a while
demetman on 07/28/2006 03:26:23
No worries Swez, rest your mind and body to help recoup from what I hope not to be a serious back injury. For the pain meds, life shore could be tough at times with and without them. Let me do some head work here to see if I can get some technical support from Audio Control regarding an EQX.
To confirm your question regardinng amps used, yes a1000/1 for 12w7, 300/2 for a/d/s/ 346cs comps and after this equipment is installed I will address the potential need for MB drivers powered by a second 300/2 or running a 450/4 to MB drivers and rear fill speakers. I will take this one step at a time to see where frequancies are lacking.
OK Bud, take it easy for a while and hope you feel better soon.
Demetrios
ttocs on 07/28/2006 16:23:58
double up on the pain meds and you will be fine. Hope it isn't too serious. You were not out playin rugby again were ya?
swez on 07/28/2006 22:08:27
Rugby? Hummm, can one play Rugby with waders and a 9.0 ft pole in hand? Yes, it definitely felt like a Rugby match thing this week. We all know ttocs loves mountain biking. But heck bro, you're probably 20 + years younger too. Try it when you hit 50. (Am sure some can too)
Thanks guys... this was a very strange event. Have been dealing with chronic lower back pain for years and every so often, it flairs up and I get some nasty spasms. Oh well, we just deal with it and press on huh?
Well, to work out the kinks, I took a night off to go fly-fishing. This often helps as I wade in deeper waters and much body weight is displaced by water, so i/o 210 lbs (+15 lbs of gear) on dry land, am more like 125 lbs in water at waist high. Also, the fly casting motions "can be very good" for the body if it's smooth, rythmic and one is well balanced when one works long line casts. (Mine usually are now-a-days... experience) It takes solid casting techniques to "shoot a line" some 40 + feet out on a fly rod. Feels great to drop a small bug/fly 45-50 feet out and watch a fish rise and take off with it.
Anyway, I hooked into a pretty good size Largemouth Bass this time. We tussled it out for a few minutes and then, this wise ol Bass, took to the weed beds and buried itself deep. I could not horse this one out w/o risking a line snap. (Did not want to lose the fish nor my most productive home-made orange popper)
So... I went in after it. As I was wading my way toward the weeds, all was well, kept a tight line and slowly made my way in from a waist deep sandy bottom stretch, to a mucky, marly spot where this fish was hunkered down. I could not see the bottom as the water was pretty merky and water clarity was about 18-24" deep at best.
All of a sudden, my left foot took a long and unexpected step into a deep trench. (Could not see it, nor avoid it as I did not see it coming) Went fom waist high water to chest high water in one step. It was like stepping out a doorway with an 18" drop and not knowing that sudden drop was there.
Yowwwie!!! That was a sudden shock to the already tender low back and I felt a sharp tear in the lower back muscles. Dang... that really hurt!!! Well, I got out of that hole OK and moved in on that fish. I was determined to make that fish pay for such a sneaky-pete, game of hide and seek. Finally reached a spot about 10 feet from where the fish was dug in and began to coax it out of its' hiding spot.
After a few minutes of jockying, I found just the right angle and pressure to free this ol gal from her hiding place. She took a few short runs and leaps, (typical Bass action) I finally landed a nice, fat female Largemout Bass. (A 10 minute event)
Sure enough, that popper was firmly hooked in her thick jaw and she would never be lost, unless the line broke! Whew... this was a nice match and this time, Ol Swez came out on the winning end. (or so it seemed then)
I finally got her close enough to slip my thumb into her lower jaw and hoisted her out of the water. Viola! A nice, fat female Bass, beautiful color, markings and no signs of previous injuries. Measured it out to about 16 inches on my rod and figured about 2-1/2 lbs. A very nice catch on a fly-rod guys. CLAP
I carefully removed the hook and gently placed her back in the water and revived her with a few passes of water through her gills and let her swin off on her own power when revivied. (The proper way to release a spent fish)
Was so full of adrenlyn and endorphins, so I did not really feel the "ensuing burn" for about 30 minutes. But as the endorphins finally wore off, that's it... I'm done and going home. Tired, sore but satified that its was a good night. Yeah, paid a good price the rest of this week, but it's getting better and back to OTC pain relievers. "Aleve" seems to do a pretty good job, w/o the narcotic side effects.
Results:
3 Largemout bass (12", 16" and a 5" bait sized one)
2 nice Rock Bass (about 10-12", 1 lb ea.)
2 fat Blugills (about 3/4 lbs ea.)
Swez
PS OK, some are not "hard-core" fishermen here. We all know fisherman tend to "stretch the yarn" a bit too. But, that's half the fun of fishing alone. Noone there to say otherwise. GRIN I'll be back at em by the Sunday or so. Wish me luck...
demetman on 07/31/2006 17:15:26
Nice story Swez! Sounds like quite an adventure to land that bugger. Never had an opportunity to fish a stream or river, sounds like a blast. Here in NJ we do quite a bit of jetty fishing and "spikes", or jetty dancing shoes are a must to navigate the seaweed covered rocks. No shortage of rewards from the rocks during the Striper run.
Some people would say us hardcore fisherman are nuts, and in several ways we are. Nothing beats the first hook-up of the day. Have fun and be careful chasing those fish.
swez on 07/31/2006 21:30:51
Yep, we have to use felt soled waders or boots in the summer as algae builts up on rocks and slate showles. This stuff is slipperier than snot on a well waxed floor, (Major dog sneezes and such) by mid-summer in some locales.
Had my first real encounter with that, late this Spring, while fishing a large river in Ohio for Walleye. The currents are very fast and the water is so badly stained in color there, you cannot see your feet in 4 inch deep water. Here, the waters are fast (4-7 mile current) and can be pretty deep in some spots too. (wading depths of 40" is about the safe limit) Above that limit, a man becomes more or less, like a cork in the water. (More float than standing put) Wheeeee
The rocky bottom changes topography and the substrates vary from sandy to rocky sands to sheets of shale. The larger boulders are also a risky adventure. If you bump into a large one and cannot see where it lies and it's covered with slime, a sure trip into the river.
It's not too bad in the early Spring as water temps are around 38-42 degrees and no algea to contend with. But if you fall in, better hope others down stream hear you coming and pull you out before the rocky rapids beat you sense-less. Then, get back to a warm vehicle ASAP as hypothermia can take a man down in less than 15 minutes.
Yeah, some say fishins' for old men and whimps... actually, it's the young bucks who get the most injuries, due to inexperience and false bravado. A wise old fisherman who is a bit unsteady, always takes his wading staff. It acts like a 3rd leg on a stool or tripod. Keeps one very steady and if he does loose traction, that staff can save his life.
Finally, Strippers are the schnitz on light to medium rigs in the lower Midwest. (IN, KY & TN) They grow a fresh water hybrid there. These are the freight trains of freh water fishing and much like Muskie or large Northern Pike, only faster and stronger.
Took a trip to TN with my old g/f and a good buddy of mine who knows the area well. (Pro Basser) We had a very slow start to the day, but around 4:00 PM, the dinner bell rang and these things went on a feeding rampage. They hunt in large schools here. There might be dozens to over 100 in a pack at feeding time. They chase the bait fish into pockets and ambush them from the bottom to top of the water. It's easy to figure out where they are feeding as the shad and such they feed on, come to the surface in large numbers and create a roil that can be spotted from 200 yards out or more. Just get your boat close enough to cast among them, match the bait they are feeding on and look out for some real fun.
The 3 of us caught like 90 fish while our partners in another boat managed over 100 between the two of them. It was all over just before dark and 90 minutes of catching these wild fighters will wear you out. Sizes ranged from an average of 2.5-4.0 lbs. A few were closer to 6 lbs. On light tackle, it's a blast. I loved Stripper fishing, once we found them feeding. But prior to that, it was hours of bordome and searching for active fish.
Swez
PS My buddy now lives in Knoxville, TN. He sent me a pic of his great catch in April... a 40 lb Stripper!!! What a monster.
Now you tell your stories there Dem... am sure some will want to read about your outings. (I sure would)
demetman on 08/2/2006 01:19:29
I love talking fish story with those who are interested! As you are already aware, I grew up In New Jersey in a small town called Sea Isle City. I have always been interested in the ocean whether it is fishing, surfing or just exploring. Got my first pole for christmas at 6 yrs old and broke it in half that same day casting around the house.
At 32 yrs old my passion for fishing lies in the fall northern migration of Striped Bass. During the months of Oct-Dec large pods of striped bass make their winter migration from North Carolina to around Maine as they gourge on menhadden(adult bunker). I have spent many years studying feeding habits, migration patterns and how weather and moon phases and tide stages effect Striped Bass. As you know Swez, fishing is a science and their are many things one must master to catch big fish on a consistant basis. Wow Swez, it's 1:30am already and I have a huge work load tomorrow. Well at the least, a little back ground info about me. To be continued tomorrow night after work. I'm hitting the hay. Night my friend.
Demetrios
swez on 08/2/2006 06:46:41
Keep talking as you have time. I'd like to hear more about the Stripper habits in the NE. Been down to SW Florida a few times in the early Winter months though. Have talked to folks that fish the brackish water inlets from the Gulf of Mexico and they have some very interesting stories too. Next trip down, will bring some gear and see what I can do with the Cravelle Jacks.
To date, have had few opportunities for Salt Water fishing. 8-( But living in the Midwest all my life, (MI and IL) it's all fresh water species here. In the northern parts of the MW, we have Northern Pike, Muskie, Walleye, 5 types of Salmonoids, 4 trout species, Large & Smallmouth bass and a pile of pan fish to play with.
Like you say, fishing is truly a science study and knowing about each species habitats, feeding preferences, spawning times and water patterns they prefer. That comment about moon phases is also a factor here, but tidal changes are less a factor for inland waters. (Except for the Great Lakes)
Like you, I started fishing at an early age as my Dad loved fishing. He took us camping each summer and then he'd hit the fall trout runs in September. That got all 3 boys in our clan on the bandwagon about fishing. Dad did not teach us much in a formal way, but he took us out and showed us the basics. The rest, we picked up on as we got older.
Dale, (Twin Bro) has been into fly fishing a lot the past 25 years. My younger Bro, (Jimmy) has been hitting the lakes for Walleye and Salmon the past few years. Trolling in a boat, is one of the most boring kinds of fishing I have experienced to date. It's great if one finds a pile of schooling fish like Walleye, Perch, Norther Pike, Muskellunge or Salmon. But finding them and getting to the right depth and water temperatures are a study all on its own.
Last summer, Dale got me back on the fly rod. Dang, was I ever rusty on this style of fishing. It took about 3 weeks of practice to get the motion down to a point that a decent delivery was possible. Not withstanding, the hodge-podge of gear I had on hand, was not well balanced nor quality gear either.
That first season was more or less a learning experience. (Read... excersizes in frustration) But, with time, practice and a whole lot of getting skunked while Dale was pulling in fish, finally started to get the hang of things. Within 6-8 weeks, both our fish counts were well up there and the funny thing was, I managed the bigger ones, most of the time.
Why? Used the same basic things I had learned while spin-casting.
1. Read the water conditions well
2. Look for the hiding spots and exploit those to the max
3. Want larger fish, use larger baits
Well, it paid off after 3 months. I started making some fly rod size bass baits with Rubber worms, scuds and larger format streamers. These are a lot harder to cast well on a cheap rig. But once the "Chuck and Duck" delivery system was understood and applied proficiently, the bigger fish came into the game plan regularly. Dale caught plenty of "Dinkers", but I was after the big ones. Dale did pretty well on Rock Bass and Smallies. I concentrated on the Smallies and other larger fish that lurked the rivers we frequented. That strategy paid off well in the final season counts. Yes, Dale did catch more fish, but Dave got most of the big ones last year. We ended the 2005 season well and as for fly fishing, Dave wa hooked too!
The story goes on and gets even better in 2006. Will share some of that later. Now, it's your turn to light the after-burners and share some of your adventures about Fall running Strippers and whatever else
you've been venturing out for. Get your fingers on the keyboard and expand on your annual treks.
Tight lines to you my friend, SMILE
Swez
demetman on 08/3/2006 00:05:18
Just read your post regarding that ungrateful and ignorant kid who didn't hold up to his end of the bargain. That kind of story makes me even more grateful that my parents did a great job raising me to be polite, respectful, curtious and thankful for things people do to help one other. In case I haven't told you Golds lately, I appreciate all your help and opinions and due to you willingness to share knowledge through experience I have grown and expanded my knowledge in several areas. Swez, I often wish I lived close enough to you to have an opportunity to work on my project with someone as knowledgable as you. That's how you really learn. Ok enough but kissin let's talk fishing.
I have never been lucky enough to own a boat, so my approach to hunt for stripers is usually on foot. Stripers are heavy feeders at night (do to very sensative eyes) and this is when I enjoy targeting them. Now, the Stripers that are migrating up the coast range in size from Spikes 6" to 40, 50, and even 60# cows. An East coast average weight is around 10#. During the run I am fully dialed into weather conditions (especially approaching low pressure areas) and the tides for a given inlet area. Stripers are smart fish and use structure to ambush prey. Bridge fishing is extremelly exciting and challenging to land large Bass. On many knights one can walk up on a bridge and spot several large stripers swimming in the shadow line caused by the lights on the bridge. Imagine walking up a bridge allowing your eyes to adjust to the dark and spotting a 30# Striper cruising the shadows awaiting it's next victim.Thats what I live for.
For baits I primarily use plastic lures on lead heads, bucktails tipped with different colored twister worms and replicas of several different species of baitfish and eels that stripers feed upon. Technique will vary depending upon location and stage of tide. On structure, such as a bridge I cast into the tide and a slow retreive with the current either on top or bottom usually finds hungry bass.
To be continued Swez, I need some ZZZZZZ.
Demet
swez on 08/3/2006 10:49:37
Is that a little "Brown Nosin" I detect from the gallery? Awww shucks! Keep it up 'cause we all need a little encouragement from time to time... hehe
Funny you said that comment about coming out for a visit to get your install done. The last guy I worked for, came from Washington DC and was on his way to So Cal. We had a great time working together and got to know a bit about mobile audio in the process. He stayed 2 nights and we wrapped it all up in 2.5 days. Yes, it took longer than usual as we had to fix some earlier work that didn't quite make the grade. The worst part was the hot, sticky weather we had back then. That meant frequent water breaks and getting out fresh sweat towels too. Brutal, but very productive.
The previous guy was from Indiana. (ttocs' home state) That job took about the same amount of time, but we had 6 hands in the game. Most of the time consumption was doing sound dampening on the front, rear doors and rear wall of his 2005 F-150 Crew Cab. This guy bought some nice gear to the party too. JL 300/4, JL 500/1, Infinity Comps for up front and Infinity Coaxials w/ crossovers in back. (2 ohm systems) He used the Nakamichi CD-400 HU, Bahn AEQ-6 and Knukonceptz wiring for the whole sha-bang. The sub was a custom 10" from Pro Box. A single ported 10, can do amazing things in a smaller cabin like this. It was a total stealth too. You could not see anything but the dash HU and EQ.
Nice story about the Strippers along the coast. Must be quite a site to spot a monster 30#'er lurking in the shadows. Is that stretch mentioned wadable? If it were safe and wadable, imagine the possibilities.
Bridge and pier fishing can be tough as hooking a fat one probably demands that you walk it back to a shoreline to land it? We have those here too. (The Great Lakes have many piers to fish from) When the Salmon run is on in late September through early December, the dams, bridges and piers get pretty nutty with drunks and beligerant Yaa-hoos. I don't consider them sportsmen or true anglers either. They are clueless on fishing etiquette and the unwritten rules a good angler always follows. Go figure huh?
Go on with your story when you get time... am enjoying the tails (errr.. tales) and such. Fish on and you can have the speakers' chair too. I'll sit in the wings and listen to your glorious fishing stories. 8-)
Swez
PS Boston is under 800 miles to Detroit. If you get some slack time in the Fall and want to make a road trip, we might be able to work something out??? Better ask the wife though. She may want a say in all that too. hehe Think about it... serious like eh?
demetman on 08/10/2006 00:24:55
Hey Swez sorry for the long delay to reply. I have had a tremendously busy 10 day stretch at work with our key guy on a trip to Irleand. I have the day off tomorrow so I thought I would see what is going on as of late.
As far as potentially making a road trip in the fall I have been giving it a lot of thought and it sounds like fun. Even mentioned it to the wife (Christine) without much of a reply. I would certainly be very grateful to utilize your skills and expertise with the project I have lined up. It would be nice get away from the Jersey Shore after a crazy busy summer of hustle and bustle. Let's discuss thisin more detail when you have some time.
PS when I regain some energy I will get back to the fishing post
catch you later
Demetrios
swez on 08/10/2006 00:54:07
Sounds like a possible plan and I guess the best thing to do now, is figure out what you need to have done, have the gear on hand and soften up the wife about going on a solo road trip for a few days???
Think about spending some extra time with her between now and then, lots of extra TLC and then say...
"Honey, I need some guy type alone time for a few days".
If she's a happy camper, the answer will be an unreserved "YES... go and have a good time woofering and tweeting your self as much as you want."
However, if you can't manage to fill up her "I'm feeling very well cared for lately tank", she may give ya some major flack.
In that case, best not to even think out a trip until she's a "Happy Honey" again. Trust me on this one Dem, I've done this the wrong way many times, until I figured out how to fill her TLC tank. Once that tank is full, you're home free to a definite YES!!!
A very important part of keeping and maintaining a happy marriage, is keeping each others' TLC tanks above 3/4 full. Yeah, you heard me right... you're the boss... as long as she says it's OK and don't ever forget it. hehe
Have a peaceful weekend and we'll chat more as needed.
Swez
demetman on 08/10/2006 16:55:21
Hear ya loud and clear brother. Both TLC tanks are low these days do to our conflicting work schedules and lack of quality time spent together. Just a few more weeks to go and I'll have the necessary quality time to make my wife happy. Christine is very cool and understanding when it comes to my hobbies and time spent away. I don't forsee any problems going away for a few days.
Starting Sept.11 the restaurant is closed Mon-Thurs and after the 8th of Oct (my 1 yr anniversary) the restaurant is closed Sun-Thurs. I'm sure you work during the week so our schedules may not allow this to happen. Let me know what you think and we can discuss more details later. Thanks
Demetrios
swez on 08/10/2006 18:31:02
My current schedule does vary a lot as a sub-contactor. Work has been lite and slow the 2nd qtr of this year with short bursts of pure madness in between. In short, I have to take things pretty much day by day and perhaps a P/T job for the winter will be needed.
So, noting that, we might both benefit by slack in both our schedules sometime next month or October. It's not out of the question to schedule something in the latter part of next month.
If you wish to talk off the board, feel free to hit my e-mail with details and such. We can go over a plan, make sure you have all the stuff needed and then strike a time frame when it is best for all.
swezdp@juno.com
Christine sounds like a very cool lady. Just wait out the long dry spell between ya'll and restore that bond, before you take a ride. She's probably your biggest fan and hopefull the feelings are mutual. As the old saying goes... "If Momma is happy, everybody's happy... If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy". It's so true huh? hehe
Marriage is a lot of give and take in the beginning. That prepares us for the real challenges that come later... starting and raising a family. Once the babies come along, chaos and the fatigue factor become bond makers or deal breakers. File that pearl of ancient wisdom for later... you will need it and a good sense of humor too.
Swez
PS It's been said that "idleness is the Devil's workshhop" right? Well, he's got a new one to play us with now... "Busy-ness is the ultimate weapon now". If he can keep us preoccupied with busy-ness, we have little time to see him under-mining the most important things any man/woman can have:
Peace in the mind (A clear mind is a prodactive mind)
Peace in the home (A content family, is what we all desire)
A balanced lifestyle (Work, play and the family is blending well)
A group of deep friendships (We all need a few deep friendships)
Time for recreation and reflection (Unplug, get out of the Rat-race and find our center again, before the next round of challenges come back)
PSS I don't mean to preach or pry into anyone's business. However, after watching others and living through a major maritial melt-down in my own marriage, I feel compelled to speak up and help others avoid the same deep pit. It's easy to step into that pit, and very hard to get out of it intact. Trust me on this one Demetrios... divorce is a no-winners' game. (BIG TIME) Oh, except the lawyers. They get paid, no matter what the outcome. SAD
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
