Hello all.I've done alot of surfing around looking for a site like this so hopefully I can find the info I'm looking for.The setup I currently have is HU-Pioneer 3800, SUB-12" Cadence Triple X 2ohm dvc 600 wrms 1800wmax,Soundstorm sx200 crossover. The box I have is 3.8 cf. slot ported. Now the thing I need to figure out is what type of amp to run and how to tune it. Amp wise I've been looking at Rockford 2 channel amps like the T3002,T5002,T8002 or the P series,and the soundstream 880.2. Thanks in advance! If more info needed please ask.
Replies (12)
ttocs on 07/4/2006 15:59:11
what is the freq the box is tuned to with 3.8 cf?
swez on 07/4/2006 18:20:24
I do like the SoundStream amp option here. It's a bit strong, but if you dial it in properly, the sub should handle it just fine.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3177
This amp has a variable LPF needed for blocking highs and the SX 200 crossover has a variable HPF filter feature as well. So, when set up correctly, you'll have a narrow bandpass filter network to block sub sonic frequencies, and also block mids and highs to the sub.
This setup should work out pretty well. All you need now, is to determine the PTF (Port Tuning Frequency) of the box and use the SX-200 to block frequencies above PTF.
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 07/4/2006 19:26:39
a bit strong in a over sized ported box,,, SSF... PTF...unloading.. tune it down...Class AB...bridging...current draw.... why all that, get a stable class D monoblock with only necessary and sufficient power ratings and an inbuilt ssf... simple.....aint that a better way out..??????????????
tpx on 07/4/2006 23:50:22
here's the thing, I got the sub at a local high end dealer.They set me up with this (I guess new version of the Cadence Triple x) and this ported 3.8 cf. box.They didn't say or even act like you needed a ss filter or tuning frequency.They actually wanted me to run the Rockford T3002,but I knew that you need a ss filter and tuning frequency,How would I find the PTF? Can anyone set me in the right direction as far as amps, price is not a matter but I want to take the cheapest route possible.Thats why I was gonna go with a strong 2-channel class A/B amp and just do the big 3 upgrade later on.Any input would greatly be appreciated.
swez on 07/5/2006 07:11:00
Did you get the specs on this proposed enclosure? If we know the vent dimensions, internal box size and sub, port displacement numbers, we can calculate the PTF and tell you what SSF settings to use.
As for amps, Victor is right! An efficient Class D amp that can deliver adequate power to this sub, would be a good option and more efficient on power usage. In this case, a 1 ohm stable amp is recommended. If you can find an older JBL BP-600.1 Mono amp, this would do the job well. (600 RMS + @ 1 or 2 ohms)
How much are you willing to spend on your sub amp?
Swez
tpx on 07/5/2006 10:04:29
IF i give you the outside dimensions of the box will that help you get the PTF or do you need inside dimensions?As for money to spend I pretty much have an open budget but I don't want to get ridiculous. I kinda want to stay away from a 1 ohm mono amp because of people telling me that a nice true 1 ohm stable amp would be like the high end Orions,Kickers and such, but I think those kind of powerhouses are over kill for me.I guess I might spring for a ! ohm amp if I definately know that the amp won't get hot and go into protect.Thats my biggest worry, the amp getting rapidly hot.I just want to optimize this setup to it's fullest and use every watt possible getting the 4 inch excursion it has to offer.Although I also heard when you go ported and get into bigger boxes it reduces power needed or something is this true,and if so how much does it reduce the power needed by? For some strange reason I got this thing for the Rockford T series amps.I don't know if any of the series is a good match because they don't have a SSF.Do you really need a SSF if you are ported?
Victor on 07/5/2006 10:11:54
may i suggest a 2 ohm stable momblock amp, but which can give around 500wrms@4ohms... u can ofcourse wire the 2ohm DVC for a net load of 4 ohms... safe and sound, and not worries of over heating too...
there are many out there with such specs from some reputed manufacturers.. u jsut have to look around a bit, and i guess u know a good bit about brands and their reputation, so it shud not be a problem for u, if it is so, u can post up the links to those amps u are looking at for reviews .....
yes you can give us the external dimensions along with the port dimensions.. and we can fint u the PTF.. but one mroe imp thing u need to give is the thinkness of wood used to construct this box.. and that shud do it..
Victor...
swez on 07/5/2006 22:38:22
Running the sub at 4 ohms from a Bridged 2 channel amp is not a bad option. However, when running subs, they too can get pretty warm due to the Class A/B circuits used in most 2 channel, full range amps. A 2 channel A/B is also pretty low in efficiency for subs. They typically yield about 60% eff. A Class D is generally 80% eff or higher and produces less heat.
Many good amps out there that are Class D and can handle 1 ohm loads now-a-days. Here's a short list of high quality Class D amps for you to consider:
Consider a Crossfire Class D amp. This one is 1 ohm stable and nets 600 RMS @ 1 ohm and has an SSF already.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=177
Another nice option, would be a solid JL 500/1. This amp can do >500 RMS at 1.5-4.0 ohm loads. It's a solid amp, well regulated power supply and you get 500 RMS @ 4 ohms. SSF too.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=247
Also, consider a classic amp brand like Memphis. This one is well priced, 1 ohm stable and 500 RMS @ 1 ohm. It also has SSF.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=374
As for your enclosure, we can calculate the PTF if you know the following details:
1. External dimensions (H, W & D) of entire box and wood thickness used on box and any internal bracing used
2. Port dimensions (if a vented slot, measure length down the middle of the port) We need H, L, D and wood thickness used
3. Sub displacement spec
Swez
tpx on 07/11/2006 19:34:25
Hey, sorry so long for response got tied up with work.I did some measuring and this is what I got BOX= H- 15 3/4" L- 28" W- 18 3/4". PORT= W- 3" H- 13 1/2". Thickness of MDF is 1".As far as the sub displacement I don't know the abreviation on the spec sheet.Sorry guys I can't find any websites that have the new Triple X. The Cadence website doesn't even have it on their website, all I can find are the old Triple X's that are 400 rms/900 peak and mine is 800 rms/1600 peak.Oh and I didn't see any internal bracing in the box.I do think I'll end up running it at 4 ohm.Any more info needed let me know I have alot of free time this week. Thanks!
cplkittle on 07/12/2006 17:00:38
ok, we are missing one number on the port dimensions if this is a slot ported box, but I can work with what you have.. your port is...
3" wide x ? x 13.5 long
first number is the other measurement, second number is the frequency.
1=12
2=16.5
3=21
4=23
5=25
6=27.5
7=29.5
8=31.25
9=33
10=34.5
11=36
12=37.3
13=38.5
14=40
15=41
16=42.25
17=43.4
That will answer ttocs question if you give us the other measurement.
my 2cents is to lose the soundstorm crossover, and get a good amplifier with built in LPF and SS crossovers. additional components will only introduce interference through ground loops. Sound STORM is not high on the list of quality components, not to knock your setup, just trying to save a little grief. The sound STREAM amps, however are higher end qualitywise.
tpx on 07/13/2006 00:39:56
Port 3"x16.5"x13.5.I don't know the frequency thats what I'm trying to find what to set the SS filter when I get the amp.
swez on 07/13/2006 10:32:38
If your box dimensions are as follows, this is what you have now for internal cf. (X.xx Ft^3) or Vb.
Height = 18.0"
Width = 28.0"
Depth = 15.75"
The internal box volume (Vb) is 3.3 ft^3, minus the port and sub displacements.
Port displacement: 0.39 ft^3.
Sub displacement: about 0.08 (estimated)
Net internal volume: 3.3 - 0.39 - 0.08 = 2.83 ft^3 (cubic feet)
From the numbers above and some calculations, it appears this enclosure is tuned to about 45 Hz. Your SSF should be ideally set to between 40 - 45 Hz. That will protect the sub from damage due to high power sound waves, below the PTF.
The mentioned Soundstorm crossover seems to have a minimum SSF filter setting at ~50 Hz. (The HPF setting is a tad high for this sub system and "may not be" the best choice for your bass system) If can actually be set below 45 Hz., it is useful. If not, you may need to find a variable or fixed SSF that can give you adequate filtering between 40-45 Hz.
NOTE: When choosing an effective SSF, select a filter value that gives a tolerance range of +/-10% value around the PTF. (40-50 Hz., will work well in this application) But, a 50 Hz., SSF will attenuate bass signals below 50 Hz. How much attenuation you get with the SX 200, will depend on the crossover slope. (-12dB/octave) Here, we can expect about -3dB attenuation at 45 Hz., with your SX 200 set at 50 Hz. Worth trying what you have for now.
Also, set your amp LPF between 80 - 100 Hz. This will allow the sub to play bass ranges adequately between 45 - 80/100 Hz.
Got all that?
Swez
PS The shop you got all this from, is not serving you well enough with technical details needed to use this gear at high SPL levels. When using a ported enclosure, we NEED a good SSF circuit to block lows that WILL damage the sub when listening at strong bass levels and neglect the SSF use or settings. If you go there for more gear, better ask a few questions here, before you buy.
Replies (12)
ttocs on 07/4/2006 15:59:11
what is the freq the box is tuned to with 3.8 cf?
swez on 07/4/2006 18:20:24
I do like the SoundStream amp option here. It's a bit strong, but if you dial it in properly, the sub should handle it just fine.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=3177
This amp has a variable LPF needed for blocking highs and the SX 200 crossover has a variable HPF filter feature as well. So, when set up correctly, you'll have a narrow bandpass filter network to block sub sonic frequencies, and also block mids and highs to the sub.
This setup should work out pretty well. All you need now, is to determine the PTF (Port Tuning Frequency) of the box and use the SX-200 to block frequencies above PTF.
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 07/4/2006 19:26:39
a bit strong in a over sized ported box,,, SSF... PTF...unloading.. tune it down...Class AB...bridging...current draw.... why all that, get a stable class D monoblock with only necessary and sufficient power ratings and an inbuilt ssf... simple.....aint that a better way out..??????????????
tpx on 07/4/2006 23:50:22
here's the thing, I got the sub at a local high end dealer.They set me up with this (I guess new version of the Cadence Triple x) and this ported 3.8 cf. box.They didn't say or even act like you needed a ss filter or tuning frequency.They actually wanted me to run the Rockford T3002,but I knew that you need a ss filter and tuning frequency,How would I find the PTF? Can anyone set me in the right direction as far as amps, price is not a matter but I want to take the cheapest route possible.Thats why I was gonna go with a strong 2-channel class A/B amp and just do the big 3 upgrade later on.Any input would greatly be appreciated.
swez on 07/5/2006 07:11:00
Did you get the specs on this proposed enclosure? If we know the vent dimensions, internal box size and sub, port displacement numbers, we can calculate the PTF and tell you what SSF settings to use.
As for amps, Victor is right! An efficient Class D amp that can deliver adequate power to this sub, would be a good option and more efficient on power usage. In this case, a 1 ohm stable amp is recommended. If you can find an older JBL BP-600.1 Mono amp, this would do the job well. (600 RMS + @ 1 or 2 ohms)
How much are you willing to spend on your sub amp?
Swez
tpx on 07/5/2006 10:04:29
IF i give you the outside dimensions of the box will that help you get the PTF or do you need inside dimensions?As for money to spend I pretty much have an open budget but I don't want to get ridiculous. I kinda want to stay away from a 1 ohm mono amp because of people telling me that a nice true 1 ohm stable amp would be like the high end Orions,Kickers and such, but I think those kind of powerhouses are over kill for me.I guess I might spring for a ! ohm amp if I definately know that the amp won't get hot and go into protect.Thats my biggest worry, the amp getting rapidly hot.I just want to optimize this setup to it's fullest and use every watt possible getting the 4 inch excursion it has to offer.Although I also heard when you go ported and get into bigger boxes it reduces power needed or something is this true,and if so how much does it reduce the power needed by? For some strange reason I got this thing for the Rockford T series amps.I don't know if any of the series is a good match because they don't have a SSF.Do you really need a SSF if you are ported?
Victor on 07/5/2006 10:11:54
may i suggest a 2 ohm stable momblock amp, but which can give around 500wrms@4ohms... u can ofcourse wire the 2ohm DVC for a net load of 4 ohms... safe and sound, and not worries of over heating too...
there are many out there with such specs from some reputed manufacturers.. u jsut have to look around a bit, and i guess u know a good bit about brands and their reputation, so it shud not be a problem for u, if it is so, u can post up the links to those amps u are looking at for reviews .....
yes you can give us the external dimensions along with the port dimensions.. and we can fint u the PTF.. but one mroe imp thing u need to give is the thinkness of wood used to construct this box.. and that shud do it..
Victor...
swez on 07/5/2006 22:38:22
Running the sub at 4 ohms from a Bridged 2 channel amp is not a bad option. However, when running subs, they too can get pretty warm due to the Class A/B circuits used in most 2 channel, full range amps. A 2 channel A/B is also pretty low in efficiency for subs. They typically yield about 60% eff. A Class D is generally 80% eff or higher and produces less heat.
Many good amps out there that are Class D and can handle 1 ohm loads now-a-days. Here's a short list of high quality Class D amps for you to consider:
Consider a Crossfire Class D amp. This one is 1 ohm stable and nets 600 RMS @ 1 ohm and has an SSF already.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=177
Another nice option, would be a solid JL 500/1. This amp can do >500 RMS at 1.5-4.0 ohm loads. It's a solid amp, well regulated power supply and you get 500 RMS @ 4 ohms. SSF too.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=247
Also, consider a classic amp brand like Memphis. This one is well priced, 1 ohm stable and 500 RMS @ 1 ohm. It also has SSF.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=374
As for your enclosure, we can calculate the PTF if you know the following details:
1. External dimensions (H, W & D) of entire box and wood thickness used on box and any internal bracing used
2. Port dimensions (if a vented slot, measure length down the middle of the port) We need H, L, D and wood thickness used
3. Sub displacement spec
Swez
tpx on 07/11/2006 19:34:25
Hey, sorry so long for response got tied up with work.I did some measuring and this is what I got BOX= H- 15 3/4" L- 28" W- 18 3/4". PORT= W- 3" H- 13 1/2". Thickness of MDF is 1".As far as the sub displacement I don't know the abreviation on the spec sheet.Sorry guys I can't find any websites that have the new Triple X. The Cadence website doesn't even have it on their website, all I can find are the old Triple X's that are 400 rms/900 peak and mine is 800 rms/1600 peak.Oh and I didn't see any internal bracing in the box.I do think I'll end up running it at 4 ohm.Any more info needed let me know I have alot of free time this week. Thanks!
cplkittle on 07/12/2006 17:00:38
ok, we are missing one number on the port dimensions if this is a slot ported box, but I can work with what you have.. your port is...
3" wide x ? x 13.5 long
first number is the other measurement, second number is the frequency.
1=12
2=16.5
3=21
4=23
5=25
6=27.5
7=29.5
8=31.25
9=33
10=34.5
11=36
12=37.3
13=38.5
14=40
15=41
16=42.25
17=43.4
That will answer ttocs question if you give us the other measurement.
my 2cents is to lose the soundstorm crossover, and get a good amplifier with built in LPF and SS crossovers. additional components will only introduce interference through ground loops. Sound STORM is not high on the list of quality components, not to knock your setup, just trying to save a little grief. The sound STREAM amps, however are higher end qualitywise.
tpx on 07/13/2006 00:39:56
Port 3"x16.5"x13.5.I don't know the frequency thats what I'm trying to find what to set the SS filter when I get the amp.
swez on 07/13/2006 10:32:38
If your box dimensions are as follows, this is what you have now for internal cf. (X.xx Ft^3) or Vb.
Height = 18.0"
Width = 28.0"
Depth = 15.75"
The internal box volume (Vb) is 3.3 ft^3, minus the port and sub displacements.
Port displacement: 0.39 ft^3.
Sub displacement: about 0.08 (estimated)
Net internal volume: 3.3 - 0.39 - 0.08 = 2.83 ft^3 (cubic feet)
From the numbers above and some calculations, it appears this enclosure is tuned to about 45 Hz. Your SSF should be ideally set to between 40 - 45 Hz. That will protect the sub from damage due to high power sound waves, below the PTF.
The mentioned Soundstorm crossover seems to have a minimum SSF filter setting at ~50 Hz. (The HPF setting is a tad high for this sub system and "may not be" the best choice for your bass system) If can actually be set below 45 Hz., it is useful. If not, you may need to find a variable or fixed SSF that can give you adequate filtering between 40-45 Hz.
NOTE: When choosing an effective SSF, select a filter value that gives a tolerance range of +/-10% value around the PTF. (40-50 Hz., will work well in this application) But, a 50 Hz., SSF will attenuate bass signals below 50 Hz. How much attenuation you get with the SX 200, will depend on the crossover slope. (-12dB/octave) Here, we can expect about -3dB attenuation at 45 Hz., with your SX 200 set at 50 Hz. Worth trying what you have for now.
Also, set your amp LPF between 80 - 100 Hz. This will allow the sub to play bass ranges adequately between 45 - 80/100 Hz.
Got all that?
Swez
PS The shop you got all this from, is not serving you well enough with technical details needed to use this gear at high SPL levels. When using a ported enclosure, we NEED a good SSF circuit to block lows that WILL damage the sub when listening at strong bass levels and neglect the SSF use or settings. If you go there for more gear, better ask a few questions here, before you buy.
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