Anyone have any workable ideas about how to make it really hard to steal there systems?
So far all I have done is bought some pc peripheral cable locks that go only to my amps. But they would be toast with a modest set of bolt cutters.
I am thinking that putting some 1/2 inch bolts into the amps, welding them there, drilling out the floor so the bolts go through, then climbing underneath and putting the nut on the bolts. I doubt any thief would go under the vehicle to undo bolts?
Maybe tack welding the amps to the floor?
Any suggestions ?
Replies (22)
swez on 06/28/2006 22:17:30
Stealth installs are your friend. Things that are hidden from view, are always a good plan.
Also, specialty hardware is an option. Here, special tools are needed to remove fasteners that hold down the goods.
Don't boom your system in the neighborhood or near work. People who are hell-bent on getting your gear, can track your comings and goings for a time. Then strike when you are away from the vehicle at predictable intervals.
Alarm system can help. But only if you know the alarm is going off and can get to your vehicle within a few minutes to investigate.
Get an insurance rider on your policy to cover stolen gear. Take pictures and keep all receipts as proof of your investment.
Swez
dkh on 06/28/2006 22:28:34
Good plan, I already photoed everything with my digi cam but i dont have theft on the vehicle. As it stands my gear so far is worth 54% of what i paid for my truck... HAHAHAHAHA. Anyways thats not a fair comparison because when my truck dies i will keep the stereo.
I had my suspicions about how effective an alarm is, and i have been real careful to not turn up the radio around the neighbourhood.
I am more likely to take the welder to my gear one day so it is impossible to take stuff with out a grinder.
What do you personally do for theft prevention?
Also, am i being paranoid or have you ever had your stereo stolen?
DKH
Victor on 06/29/2006 06:02:20
if u wanna try and avoid theft in ur car, become a thief,,
swez on 06/29/2006 09:07:58
I don't think I'd try welding with delicate electronic amps. The case is also connected to ground and the large amount of current welding generates, may be very harmful to internal amp componets.
Am not 100% on that, but why risk it.
Something like a 2 part epoxy or JB Weld, might do the job though.
Swez
PS Paranoid? Depends on the area you live and/or work in.
dkh on 06/29/2006 11:08:36
Jb weld, never even thought of that, i think i will go get some.
BoostedShadow on 07/2/2006 01:07:41
I like the JB Weld idea myself
dkh on 07/2/2006 23:37:27
Well i bit the bullet and bought an alarm. Its a cheaper 1 at 60 bucks but it should work ok. I believe it is a black widow model 6.
Now after tearing apart my dash i am going to attempt to install it... wish me luck im scared
Victor on 07/3/2006 06:42:37
if u tore apart the dash..... even i am scared...lol
ttocs on 07/3/2006 11:59:04
I really with you had asked us what alarms we would recommend. Is it too late to cancel the order? Are you guys seriously thinking about using jb weld to mount the amps?
I don't know what kind of experience you have in security, but a descent-good alarm installed incorrectly can leave your vehicle just as unsafe as it was before. It can also make things worse by frying some of the delicate electronics needed to start/run your truck.........
dkh on 07/3/2006 18:51:11
Are you telling me i bought a garbage unit? Its ok if your are i am beggining to wonder.
Ok i hooked up only the essential things (i can list them out if you guys are curious) but basically just the hood pin switch and the motion sensor are hooked up. Also I hooked up the ground for the brain to the steering column, the ground for the siren horn to the same place, the power to the horn and the attena for the remote, and the led blinker. No door locks or door pins hooked up yet.
Now when i hook up the power wire the thing beeps 4 times, sits for a nother 10 seconds or so, then the stupid alarm goes off.
Anyone have any ideas about why?
I checked the hood pin switch and its fine and the sensor aint moving so i cant place my finger on it except that i am thinking maybe i have to attach a bunch more wiring before it will work properly?
Do I have to attach all the "extras" to get this thing going?
Any ideas much appreciated
dkh on 07/3/2006 19:25:13
Black widow advertises with the slogan " thieves hate us like poison" with a skull and cross bones in there for a cool pirate effect too. Check it out
http://www.blackwidowsecurity.com/
Any security alarm company that has a catchy phrase like that must be good...
dkh on 07/3/2006 19:27:51
I was wrong on the model, i have model BW-X5. Sorry
swez on 07/3/2006 19:52:40
According to the install manual, 4 chirps indicates an open or defective zone sensor. That may be due to the door pin sensors, not connected yet.
You may have a few other circuits to wire up correctly to keep the alarm from going off under normal armed systems conditions. Read the manual carefully and follow the wiring instructions to the letter.
Swez
PS For amp mounting, consider special security hardware that needs special tools for installing and removing fasteners. Looks like ttocs is against the JB Weld idea. Am sure he has a good reason for his opinion, buy we don't know what that might be yet??? Comments there ol bald one? How's the "Momstange" performing for ya? Nice thing about Mom's huh?
dkh on 07/3/2006 20:30:36
Lol. Hey swez where did you read that 4 chirps thing, i am wondering which page its on.
Also, i dont know how to proceed with hooking up to the door locks. I am somewhat confused when i look at my chevy blazer haynes manual for the power door lock system page 12-16 and comparing it to the manual for the black widow page 23. Does the blazer have a positive pulse lock system?
I havent got as far as the correct door pin wiring either yet as the manual says,
"blue/red wire - positive door trigger (+), use when the switch is 12 volts when the door is open, this type of door circuit is found on ford vehicles"
"blue/black wire - negative door trigger (-),. connect to the door switch circuit that shows ground when the door is open.
Which one do i do? Anyone ever put an alarm in a chev blazer before?
dkh on 07/3/2006 20:39:03
You know what i bet it is? i bet the door pin wire is grounding on the firewall. I used the wire that the guy who previously owned my truck had a remote starter in it and he didnt grommet or at least tape up any wire going through a bare metal hole in the fire wall. I am gonna check that right away.
These door pins are confusing.
ryan2 on 07/4/2006 01:29:39
Go here http://www.the12volt.com/ to find the wiring for your vehicle and to learn some simple things when installing your alarm. They are very helpful. I hooked up my Compustar 2-way pager last summer just buy info. from that site and some of the members there. Its also a great site for car audio. Th old folks would agree (ttocs and swez) SMILE.
ttocs on 07/4/2006 11:40:16
I have been installing for over 10yrs now and done a couple of black widow alarms that people brought in to me. I am really picky when it comes to what equipment to buy, especially alarms. It is not the best, not the worst, but what we have now.....
look under the dash where the lights are that come on when the door is open. there should be 2 wires going to it(orange and white), the white wire is neg trigger for the door trigger, connect your blue and black wire to it. For the door locks, hit either the lock or unlock button a few times. You will hear the slight clicking of the lock relays which I believe is under the passenger side dash. The relay pack will look like a small black plastic rectangle with a 5-6 wires going to it. When you hit the locks you should be able to feel the relays clicking inside of it. We need the wires that are on either end of the hrns one I think is grey, the other maybe blue? These are the posative triggers that make the relay engauge, making the lock motors move. If you have a voltmeter(which you should have and know how to use to install an alarm) these wires will rest at ground and then go to +12v when the lock or unlock button is hit. If you do not have a voltmeter you can test to see if you have the proper wires by cutting them(one at a time) and then see if the lock or unlock button works. There should be no clicking from the relays and the truck should not lock/unlock.
There will be a few wires that you will not use such as the pos trigger for the doors.
And before you go any further stop and read the directions as well as the install instructions from front to back......
dkh on 07/4/2006 23:55:25
Thanks a bunch ttocs. This info helped alot. The thing i was missing from my install before that i thought i could forgoe was the ingnition wire that is 12 volts when starting. I geuss this wire is important because now the alarm seems to respond to the valet switch anyways.
Now if i can figure out how to work my remotes then i will be laughing. The 2 way lcd remote i fear is broken and not working. Like i said before i only paid 60 for this alarm and it was used. So i may have to bite the bullet and pay a whopping 100 dollars from black widow to get my lcd remote working, which really sucks.
Do you guys know, do i actually need the lcd remote or can i make do with the other remote that is the 4 button no lcd one, that goes for 35 dollars online? I already have one of these as well and the lights on it work, but when i tried to get the car alarm to communicate with it, it didnt seem to respond. I am going to repeat the procedure and if it doesnt work i am going back to visions to complain that BOTH remotes are not working and get them to at least get me the chaeper remote!!!
I paid for this to be working regardless of if it was previously installed or not! As far as I am concerned those guys can't sell a car alarm system that has no working remotes, and i am sure that small claims judge would agree.
Any thoughts??
DKH
swez on 07/5/2006 07:04:46
Chances are good that your remotes are fine, but your wiring of the system is incomplete at the moment.
If you go to Visions and "ask for assistance", you are more likely to get better results. Perhaps one of the techs will walk you through the steps that are now lacking and you can take careful notes and correct the issues in time. They are in business to make a buck and service reasonable customers.
Since you have not paid for thier installation package, don't expect Carte Blanche treatment. The hat in hand approach always works better than a vocal show of "YOU OWE ME" such and so.
At the moment, you are in well over your head and getting frustrated. But, a few calm questions will always net better results than being a hothead. Try to time your visit when the installers are slow and relaxed. If they are neck deep in work, come back another time.
Swez
ttocs on 07/5/2006 11:43:20
on alot of new alarms(I am not really familiar with black widow) you HAVE to have the alarms antenna plugged in to get it to work. There is also a possability that the remotes need to be programmed, check your manual for that one.
There are actually 2 different types of ignition wires in the ignition hrn. a "true" ignition will keep +12v on while cranking the engine to feed items that need voltage while cranking such as your fuel pump and the cars main computer. There are other ignition wires that shut off when the starter is cranking that control non-necessary electrical items such as your radio and climate controls. All of these wires are in addition to the starter wire which only has voltage on it while cranking.
I would have to agree with swez that more then likely the remotes not working has to do with the installation then the hardware. I am not taking a shot at you, car security is not an easy subj and I installed my first alarm in '94(on the momstang) only after installing professionally for over a year. Security is not something you just jump into. I have trained a few people on how to do alarms but the first install is just watching what I would do and explaining some basics.
dkh on 07/5/2006 17:33:10
Well i loaded my shotgun and proceeded to drive to visions.... just kidding.
I went in to get some help and the first installer i talked to said to change to a new battery in my lcd remote, and voila if you wouldn't have geusssed ... it came to life. So After that mindboggling hurdle i went to my truck and with the install manual in hand I proceeded to program my remote into the security brain.
The procedure is
1 ignition on, off, on, off, on
2 hold the valay/override switch on until the siren goes off 3 times.
3 release the switch
4 press the lock button/alarm arm button and the siren should go off once to indicate the remote is recognized. Problem, my siren doesnt go off at this step.
5 if needed to add another remote press valet switch once, then press the other remotes lock/arm button, otherwise shutoff the key
So i everything works up until step 4 where the siren doesnt beep back to confirm the remote is recognized by the brain. What do you guys think this could be?
My first idea is that the antenna isnt working, but i dont see how this could be because i checked the connection at the brain and at the antenna about 6 times. But being that this alarm was previously installed somewheres else, maybe the guy spilt water on the antenna or something like that?
Any help much appreciated.
dkh on 07/10/2006 23:24:26
Ok man's good news, i got my car alarm working on my own and i was very friendly and cooperative and those guys helped me out alot. What a great bunch of guys at the store, when the first brain/antenna didn't work i just went back and was really nice and the guy exchanged me my defective unit for one that worked and even gave me a valet switch that was missing from my original purchase. WOW, i honestly was not excpecting that level of help and service, i will definetely buy more stuff from those guys if i need anything else.
Can't beat a LCD FM two way remote installed for 60$ !!!! Its unheard of.... Im so happy i almost pee'd my pants.
Ok Ciao
So far all I have done is bought some pc peripheral cable locks that go only to my amps. But they would be toast with a modest set of bolt cutters.
I am thinking that putting some 1/2 inch bolts into the amps, welding them there, drilling out the floor so the bolts go through, then climbing underneath and putting the nut on the bolts. I doubt any thief would go under the vehicle to undo bolts?
Maybe tack welding the amps to the floor?
Any suggestions ?
Replies (22)
swez on 06/28/2006 22:17:30
Stealth installs are your friend. Things that are hidden from view, are always a good plan.
Also, specialty hardware is an option. Here, special tools are needed to remove fasteners that hold down the goods.
Don't boom your system in the neighborhood or near work. People who are hell-bent on getting your gear, can track your comings and goings for a time. Then strike when you are away from the vehicle at predictable intervals.
Alarm system can help. But only if you know the alarm is going off and can get to your vehicle within a few minutes to investigate.
Get an insurance rider on your policy to cover stolen gear. Take pictures and keep all receipts as proof of your investment.
Swez
dkh on 06/28/2006 22:28:34
Good plan, I already photoed everything with my digi cam but i dont have theft on the vehicle. As it stands my gear so far is worth 54% of what i paid for my truck... HAHAHAHAHA. Anyways thats not a fair comparison because when my truck dies i will keep the stereo.
I had my suspicions about how effective an alarm is, and i have been real careful to not turn up the radio around the neighbourhood.
I am more likely to take the welder to my gear one day so it is impossible to take stuff with out a grinder.
What do you personally do for theft prevention?
Also, am i being paranoid or have you ever had your stereo stolen?
DKH
Victor on 06/29/2006 06:02:20
if u wanna try and avoid theft in ur car, become a thief,,
swez on 06/29/2006 09:07:58
I don't think I'd try welding with delicate electronic amps. The case is also connected to ground and the large amount of current welding generates, may be very harmful to internal amp componets.
Am not 100% on that, but why risk it.
Something like a 2 part epoxy or JB Weld, might do the job though.
Swez
PS Paranoid? Depends on the area you live and/or work in.
dkh on 06/29/2006 11:08:36
Jb weld, never even thought of that, i think i will go get some.
BoostedShadow on 07/2/2006 01:07:41
I like the JB Weld idea myself
dkh on 07/2/2006 23:37:27
Well i bit the bullet and bought an alarm. Its a cheaper 1 at 60 bucks but it should work ok. I believe it is a black widow model 6.
Now after tearing apart my dash i am going to attempt to install it... wish me luck im scared
Victor on 07/3/2006 06:42:37
if u tore apart the dash..... even i am scared...lol
ttocs on 07/3/2006 11:59:04
I really with you had asked us what alarms we would recommend. Is it too late to cancel the order? Are you guys seriously thinking about using jb weld to mount the amps?
I don't know what kind of experience you have in security, but a descent-good alarm installed incorrectly can leave your vehicle just as unsafe as it was before. It can also make things worse by frying some of the delicate electronics needed to start/run your truck.........
dkh on 07/3/2006 18:51:11
Are you telling me i bought a garbage unit? Its ok if your are i am beggining to wonder.
Ok i hooked up only the essential things (i can list them out if you guys are curious) but basically just the hood pin switch and the motion sensor are hooked up. Also I hooked up the ground for the brain to the steering column, the ground for the siren horn to the same place, the power to the horn and the attena for the remote, and the led blinker. No door locks or door pins hooked up yet.
Now when i hook up the power wire the thing beeps 4 times, sits for a nother 10 seconds or so, then the stupid alarm goes off.
Anyone have any ideas about why?
I checked the hood pin switch and its fine and the sensor aint moving so i cant place my finger on it except that i am thinking maybe i have to attach a bunch more wiring before it will work properly?
Do I have to attach all the "extras" to get this thing going?
Any ideas much appreciated
dkh on 07/3/2006 19:25:13
Black widow advertises with the slogan " thieves hate us like poison" with a skull and cross bones in there for a cool pirate effect too. Check it out
http://www.blackwidowsecurity.com/
Any security alarm company that has a catchy phrase like that must be good...
dkh on 07/3/2006 19:27:51
I was wrong on the model, i have model BW-X5. Sorry
swez on 07/3/2006 19:52:40
According to the install manual, 4 chirps indicates an open or defective zone sensor. That may be due to the door pin sensors, not connected yet.
You may have a few other circuits to wire up correctly to keep the alarm from going off under normal armed systems conditions. Read the manual carefully and follow the wiring instructions to the letter.
Swez
PS For amp mounting, consider special security hardware that needs special tools for installing and removing fasteners. Looks like ttocs is against the JB Weld idea. Am sure he has a good reason for his opinion, buy we don't know what that might be yet??? Comments there ol bald one? How's the "Momstange" performing for ya? Nice thing about Mom's huh?
dkh on 07/3/2006 20:30:36
Lol. Hey swez where did you read that 4 chirps thing, i am wondering which page its on.
Also, i dont know how to proceed with hooking up to the door locks. I am somewhat confused when i look at my chevy blazer haynes manual for the power door lock system page 12-16 and comparing it to the manual for the black widow page 23. Does the blazer have a positive pulse lock system?
I havent got as far as the correct door pin wiring either yet as the manual says,
"blue/red wire - positive door trigger (+), use when the switch is 12 volts when the door is open, this type of door circuit is found on ford vehicles"
"blue/black wire - negative door trigger (-),. connect to the door switch circuit that shows ground when the door is open.
Which one do i do? Anyone ever put an alarm in a chev blazer before?
dkh on 07/3/2006 20:39:03
You know what i bet it is? i bet the door pin wire is grounding on the firewall. I used the wire that the guy who previously owned my truck had a remote starter in it and he didnt grommet or at least tape up any wire going through a bare metal hole in the fire wall. I am gonna check that right away.
These door pins are confusing.
ryan2 on 07/4/2006 01:29:39
Go here http://www.the12volt.com/ to find the wiring for your vehicle and to learn some simple things when installing your alarm. They are very helpful. I hooked up my Compustar 2-way pager last summer just buy info. from that site and some of the members there. Its also a great site for car audio. Th old folks would agree (ttocs and swez) SMILE.
ttocs on 07/4/2006 11:40:16
I have been installing for over 10yrs now and done a couple of black widow alarms that people brought in to me. I am really picky when it comes to what equipment to buy, especially alarms. It is not the best, not the worst, but what we have now.....
look under the dash where the lights are that come on when the door is open. there should be 2 wires going to it(orange and white), the white wire is neg trigger for the door trigger, connect your blue and black wire to it. For the door locks, hit either the lock or unlock button a few times. You will hear the slight clicking of the lock relays which I believe is under the passenger side dash. The relay pack will look like a small black plastic rectangle with a 5-6 wires going to it. When you hit the locks you should be able to feel the relays clicking inside of it. We need the wires that are on either end of the hrns one I think is grey, the other maybe blue? These are the posative triggers that make the relay engauge, making the lock motors move. If you have a voltmeter(which you should have and know how to use to install an alarm) these wires will rest at ground and then go to +12v when the lock or unlock button is hit. If you do not have a voltmeter you can test to see if you have the proper wires by cutting them(one at a time) and then see if the lock or unlock button works. There should be no clicking from the relays and the truck should not lock/unlock.
There will be a few wires that you will not use such as the pos trigger for the doors.
And before you go any further stop and read the directions as well as the install instructions from front to back......
dkh on 07/4/2006 23:55:25
Thanks a bunch ttocs. This info helped alot. The thing i was missing from my install before that i thought i could forgoe was the ingnition wire that is 12 volts when starting. I geuss this wire is important because now the alarm seems to respond to the valet switch anyways.
Now if i can figure out how to work my remotes then i will be laughing. The 2 way lcd remote i fear is broken and not working. Like i said before i only paid 60 for this alarm and it was used. So i may have to bite the bullet and pay a whopping 100 dollars from black widow to get my lcd remote working, which really sucks.
Do you guys know, do i actually need the lcd remote or can i make do with the other remote that is the 4 button no lcd one, that goes for 35 dollars online? I already have one of these as well and the lights on it work, but when i tried to get the car alarm to communicate with it, it didnt seem to respond. I am going to repeat the procedure and if it doesnt work i am going back to visions to complain that BOTH remotes are not working and get them to at least get me the chaeper remote!!!
I paid for this to be working regardless of if it was previously installed or not! As far as I am concerned those guys can't sell a car alarm system that has no working remotes, and i am sure that small claims judge would agree.
Any thoughts??
DKH
swez on 07/5/2006 07:04:46
Chances are good that your remotes are fine, but your wiring of the system is incomplete at the moment.
If you go to Visions and "ask for assistance", you are more likely to get better results. Perhaps one of the techs will walk you through the steps that are now lacking and you can take careful notes and correct the issues in time. They are in business to make a buck and service reasonable customers.
Since you have not paid for thier installation package, don't expect Carte Blanche treatment. The hat in hand approach always works better than a vocal show of "YOU OWE ME" such and so.
At the moment, you are in well over your head and getting frustrated. But, a few calm questions will always net better results than being a hothead. Try to time your visit when the installers are slow and relaxed. If they are neck deep in work, come back another time.
Swez
ttocs on 07/5/2006 11:43:20
on alot of new alarms(I am not really familiar with black widow) you HAVE to have the alarms antenna plugged in to get it to work. There is also a possability that the remotes need to be programmed, check your manual for that one.
There are actually 2 different types of ignition wires in the ignition hrn. a "true" ignition will keep +12v on while cranking the engine to feed items that need voltage while cranking such as your fuel pump and the cars main computer. There are other ignition wires that shut off when the starter is cranking that control non-necessary electrical items such as your radio and climate controls. All of these wires are in addition to the starter wire which only has voltage on it while cranking.
I would have to agree with swez that more then likely the remotes not working has to do with the installation then the hardware. I am not taking a shot at you, car security is not an easy subj and I installed my first alarm in '94(on the momstang) only after installing professionally for over a year. Security is not something you just jump into. I have trained a few people on how to do alarms but the first install is just watching what I would do and explaining some basics.
dkh on 07/5/2006 17:33:10
Well i loaded my shotgun and proceeded to drive to visions.... just kidding.
I went in to get some help and the first installer i talked to said to change to a new battery in my lcd remote, and voila if you wouldn't have geusssed ... it came to life. So After that mindboggling hurdle i went to my truck and with the install manual in hand I proceeded to program my remote into the security brain.
The procedure is
1 ignition on, off, on, off, on
2 hold the valay/override switch on until the siren goes off 3 times.
3 release the switch
4 press the lock button/alarm arm button and the siren should go off once to indicate the remote is recognized. Problem, my siren doesnt go off at this step.
5 if needed to add another remote press valet switch once, then press the other remotes lock/arm button, otherwise shutoff the key
So i everything works up until step 4 where the siren doesnt beep back to confirm the remote is recognized by the brain. What do you guys think this could be?
My first idea is that the antenna isnt working, but i dont see how this could be because i checked the connection at the brain and at the antenna about 6 times. But being that this alarm was previously installed somewheres else, maybe the guy spilt water on the antenna or something like that?
Any help much appreciated.
dkh on 07/10/2006 23:24:26
Ok man's good news, i got my car alarm working on my own and i was very friendly and cooperative and those guys helped me out alot. What a great bunch of guys at the store, when the first brain/antenna didn't work i just went back and was really nice and the guy exchanged me my defective unit for one that worked and even gave me a valet switch that was missing from my original purchase. WOW, i honestly was not excpecting that level of help and service, i will definetely buy more stuff from those guys if i need anything else.
Can't beat a LCD FM two way remote installed for 60$ !!!! Its unheard of.... Im so happy i almost pee'd my pants.
Ok Ciao
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