Hello, I have a mitsubishi 2005 eclipse. GS
In theory i want to have a stereo in a car with no actual connections to the car. In other words, there is a head unit, amp, battery, mids and tweeters, and subs.
However, none of these will actually be hooked up to the car. Can this be done?
plan to do it like this, speakers hooked up to amp.. amp hooked up to extra battery ONLY, that is in the trunk/hatch...
Then, mids and tweeters hooked up to the head unit.. and then the head unit needs power from somewhere?
I think this will work, but the head unit will need to be powered somehow. Is there a way to power the head unit without hooking it up to the car. Otherwise, Is there another way to make this work WITH THIS SETUP.
I also have a battery charger to recharge the battery, but this will not have anything to do with the car.
this is all in theory.
Thanks for any advice.
Replies (16)
cplkittle on 06/28/2006 20:20:56
This will work !!
for about 30 minutes, then you have to recharge your battery
and if the equiptment does not shut off due to voltage drop, it will fry itself.
overall, not a good idea. really there are no benefits from it, and many many many many things that could go wrong.
krimkrim on 06/29/2006 02:48:27
okay, in case your wondering why i want a setup like this, its because I don't want to tamper with any factory wires, i'm worried about cancelling the warranty with the car, the mitsubishi service dept. warned me that any stereo installation may void part of the electronic warranty, its a fairly new car, I don't want to risk that.
If I installed a stereo that didn't involve removing my old headunit, could I use the car battery in the car, to power a stereo like this.
In other words, here are the rules..
-can't uninstall anything already oem in the car.
-MAY use the battery under the hood in the car :)
-can't tamper with factory wires.
It seems the head unit is the only part i'm really concerned about.
could i make this work?
thanks again for all the help.
ttocs on 06/29/2006 05:55:27
My boss always quotes some law when customers come in and say that or something similar. Something about that they cannot void your warrenty for instalation of aftermarket products unless they offer the same product, Idunno..... As long as everything is installed properly(by properly I mean correctly and safely, not just working) you should not get any grief from the dealer.....
gearhead on 06/29/2006 09:54:02
"My boss always quotes some law when customers come in..."
Most likely the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. But it wouldn't relate to aftermarket stereo install voiding a new car warranty. Magnuson-Moss prohibits a manufacturer from requiring the use of parts from a specific manufacturer to maintain the warranty, unless they provide those parts for free. Example: Honda can't require you to use only genuine Honda oil filters to maintain your vehicles warranty unless they provide Honda oil filters to you free of charge. They CAN void your warranty if you usr a NAPA oil filter, and they determine that a NAPA oil filter doesn't meet their oil filter specifications/requirements.
Since adding an amp would significantly alter the designed amperage load of the electrical system, they would probably be well within their rights to void any warranty claims related to the electrical system.
dkh on 06/29/2006 11:25:57
That guy at mitsubishi is freaking moron. Thousands of people install brand new audio systems in there vehicles as soon as they leave the lot. The audio system has no effect on say, why your tailights dont work, a simple fix anyways most likely, and anything to do with the engine compartment like a loose high tension lead for example, forget about the audio system having an effect on them. This guy at mitsubishi sounds like a class A you know what.
I wouldnt even worry about it especially if you have the gear installed at a good pro-shop and keep the reciepts for the dealership/judge.
IF you actually do have an electrical problem, (very remote possibility in my opinion) then do the following. Be nice and courteous intitially.... if things get ugly do the following.
When dealing with dealerships you got to play hardball if they start to take advantage of you. By this i mean learn the facts and stick to your guns when dealing with them. If they won't cooperate threaten nasty letters to local governing bodies. Then take your car down the street to the other mitsubishi dealer and get them to fix the car, be nice and they will do a great job.
Sincerely DKH
MrBrownstone on 06/29/2006 12:10:21
One pair of headphones...$19.99
If your car is such a piece of junk that you're worrying about voiding the warranty, buy a Honda or a Toyota. If you haven't already bought from these railroaders, that is.
dkh on 06/29/2006 12:12:39
ahahahaha, yeah get the headphones with a bass boost too, that way it will be like two 3/4"sub woofers right where you need ehm!
swez on 06/29/2006 14:04:57
It would be wise to get whatever policies the dealer makes claims to in writing. If you are not satified with that document, you can either get a profession legal opinion or ignore the dealer's recommendations and do as you wish... at your own risk.
This is just a simple case of a dealership trying to avoid repair liabilities from a customer that abuses the the OEM design parameters. I am sure dealers have had several expensive repairs that were caused by such add ons.
However, a skilled Installer will know what to do and how to set up your gear approporiately. Unfortunately, the guy in charge of the volume knob, can be his own worst enemy and not even know it.
Swez
krimkrim on 06/29/2006 20:50:54
Thanks for all the comments regarding the warranty. I do have an extended warranty on the car and I think that may be at risk.
Anyways, i've thought of a new setup that may work better for my situation.
the factory HU is an infinity 6 CD disk changer.
plan 1: Don't cut any wires, but use a harness. One side for the factory wires, the other side for an aftermarket head unit, use the 12v and remote from the aftermarket HU to the battery under the hood. then the amp and subs to the HU....
plan2: don't tamper with anything in the car. do exactly above, but don't unhook the factory stereo. Just hookup the aftermarket HU as stated. Would there be a problem if i never turned the factory stereo on, but only used the new aftermarket stereo?
thanks for any further help on this topic.
swez on 06/29/2006 21:06:59
In many cases, if you just wish to add a sub and amp to your ride, you can often run parallel tap wires off the rear speakers to feed the amp audio signals.
Depending on the amp used, you can choose the 4 wire pigtail that comes with most amps that have this feature or use a convertor/attenuator to bring the speaker voltage down to usable RCA line levels. (2-6 volts in most cases) The only issue left, is powering the amp and how to turn it on when you want it.
If you use a dedicated BAT for the amp, best to use a Deep Cycle BAT with a high CCA amperage rating. This BAT is designed for deep discharge cycles and can be recharged w/o damage for many cycles. You can even connect the BAT to your cigarette lighter so the ALT will charge it when you run the engine. Just make sure you fuse that charging line to match your cigarette lighter circuit. (20-25A fuse)
What size amp (wattage rating) are you thinking here? If using the stock HU, 300 RMS is plenty of bass if you go ported.
Comments?
Swez
krimkrim on 06/30/2006 15:26:39
well, i was going to use a 150 rms amp, but bridge it, so ya 300. that should be okay for two 10's. I've recently changed my spare battery idea because of the risks involved, so now i'm using the battery under the hood, however, i don't want to use the factory stereo. I think that if I do use an aftermarket HU, that could be bad for the mids and highs if i'm playing it loud all the time. I really want to use the aftermarket HU, and then put different highs and mids in the car, this would be more work, but would i be able to hook this up without unplugging the old factory stereo, or is it a necessity to atleast unplug the old stereo, then install a new one. I don't want to uninstall anything, ideally.
Thanks for the help Swez!
And, everyone else.
swez on 06/30/2006 19:03:39
You can add a sub amp and subs to your exsisting system with minimal work. The only wiring to be done here is a power cable for the amp, a trigger circuit to activate the amps REMote turn on feature and audio signal inputs from the rear speakers to amplifier input stage.
With a 300 watt RMS sub amp, current draw will be minimal to your car electrical system. (25-30 amperes of current tops) This will give you plenty of bump and may (most likely) overpower your stock audio system. (Mids/highs)
You can easily go with a single 10" or 12" sub and have very good bass performance at a lower cost and less space taken in the cargo area.
If you elected to leave the OEM HU in there, you'll have to install an Aftermarket HU with separate speakers and wiring. This is a lot of work and not recommended. In this case, less if often more.
If your amp draws 25 amperes or less, you can easily power it from the cigarette lighter port. All you need here is the cigarette lighter plug and a length of #10-12 gage paired wire. This way, you can turn the amp on or off by unplugging the lighter adapter. This should do:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=265-562
FYI It would be good to fuse the + line (center pin) at the lighter male plug to protect your cigarette lighter fuse and circuits. Some of these aftermarket plugs come with a fuse already installed and replaceable.
Swez
PS Check your car manual for fuse location on the cigarette lighter and what fuse is used on that circuit. If you go this route, just be sure to fuse the power line at or below the OEM fuse value.
krimkrim on 07/1/2006 05:08:02
Swez, awesome advice!
Some last questions though, above you said "..and audio signal inputs from the rear speakers to amplifier input stage."
not sure what you mean here? the factory rear speakers? or the aftermarket subs?
...
also, when you said that the 400 watt rms amp, could overpower the stock system, that would be bad, and could, as i mentioned before damage the stock speakers right?
...
one more thing, I really plan on leaving the stock HU in the car, I already have an aftermarket HU, and a pair of lansar 10's. I like the 12v lighter plug, so i wouldn't need the remote wire because i could just unplug this right?
and also, if i didn't use the lighter plug, could i use my original idea, and take the 12v and remote wires from both the aftermarket HU and amp, wire them straight to the battery under the hood, using a terminal?
Sorry, alot of questions!
Thanks again Swez.
swez on 07/1/2006 10:26:06
Your stock HU provides amplified audio signals to the rear speakers right? (Obviously, or they would not play)
You may run additional speaker wires off the rear speakers that can feed the amp input section. (Speaker level inputs or RCA line level)
Most amps come with both input features and if you use the Speaker Level option, there is a pigtail that comes with the amp for this purpose.
If you elect to use RCA (Line level) inputs on the amp, you'll need signal "attenuators" to bring the speaker level voltages down to usable line level voltage.
Yes, if you use the cigarette lighter power option, you will not need to add a remote trigger line. One can simply add a jumper between the amps' B+ and REMote terminal lugs to turn on and power the amp.
QUOTE: "if i didn't use the lighter plug, could i use my original idea, and take the 12v and remote wires from both the aftermarket HU and amp, wire them straight to the battery under the hood, using a terminal?"
In a word... NOPE! If you added the Aftermarket HU, it would have to be installed in a remote location. (Under dash or similar) Then, you'd have to disconnect the factory HU and rewire speakers and run RCA's & power lines too. A lot more work here mate. "KISS" Keep It Simple Sam"
Finally, 400 RMS watts to the subs, is a lot of bass power. If the rear speakers are not enclosed or shielded from subwoofer bass waves, they are likely to be damaged in time with that much bass energy.
Swez
PS To keep your bass system from greatly overpowering your mid/highs, 250-300 watts RMS is plenty of sub amp power. You'll get good bump from that power level and not strain the stock electrical system to any major extent.
krimkrim on 07/2/2006 00:27:07
Hey Swez, thanks alot for the help. all this info has helped me narrow down a decision.
thanks again.
swez on 07/2/2006 08:44:54
Great! Glad this is all making sense to you now. It should work out fine and not void your warranty on this car. All you are adding is a modest sub and amp. The rest is stock and you will not be messing with any major electrical mods either.
The system proposed here, can also be removed if you need to take the car in for service too. This leaves no traces of your work, if you do it well.
Swez
PS This is a donation supported site. Care to flip a few bucks into the kitty? This insures the sites' continued operation and service to you and others that come later. Thanks!
In theory i want to have a stereo in a car with no actual connections to the car. In other words, there is a head unit, amp, battery, mids and tweeters, and subs.
However, none of these will actually be hooked up to the car. Can this be done?
plan to do it like this, speakers hooked up to amp.. amp hooked up to extra battery ONLY, that is in the trunk/hatch...
Then, mids and tweeters hooked up to the head unit.. and then the head unit needs power from somewhere?
I think this will work, but the head unit will need to be powered somehow. Is there a way to power the head unit without hooking it up to the car. Otherwise, Is there another way to make this work WITH THIS SETUP.
I also have a battery charger to recharge the battery, but this will not have anything to do with the car.
this is all in theory.
Thanks for any advice.
Replies (16)
cplkittle on 06/28/2006 20:20:56
This will work !!
for about 30 minutes, then you have to recharge your battery
and if the equiptment does not shut off due to voltage drop, it will fry itself.
overall, not a good idea. really there are no benefits from it, and many many many many things that could go wrong.
krimkrim on 06/29/2006 02:48:27
okay, in case your wondering why i want a setup like this, its because I don't want to tamper with any factory wires, i'm worried about cancelling the warranty with the car, the mitsubishi service dept. warned me that any stereo installation may void part of the electronic warranty, its a fairly new car, I don't want to risk that.
If I installed a stereo that didn't involve removing my old headunit, could I use the car battery in the car, to power a stereo like this.
In other words, here are the rules..
-can't uninstall anything already oem in the car.
-MAY use the battery under the hood in the car :)
-can't tamper with factory wires.
It seems the head unit is the only part i'm really concerned about.
could i make this work?
thanks again for all the help.
ttocs on 06/29/2006 05:55:27
My boss always quotes some law when customers come in and say that or something similar. Something about that they cannot void your warrenty for instalation of aftermarket products unless they offer the same product, Idunno..... As long as everything is installed properly(by properly I mean correctly and safely, not just working) you should not get any grief from the dealer.....
gearhead on 06/29/2006 09:54:02
"My boss always quotes some law when customers come in..."
Most likely the Magnuson-Moss Warranty Act. But it wouldn't relate to aftermarket stereo install voiding a new car warranty. Magnuson-Moss prohibits a manufacturer from requiring the use of parts from a specific manufacturer to maintain the warranty, unless they provide those parts for free. Example: Honda can't require you to use only genuine Honda oil filters to maintain your vehicles warranty unless they provide Honda oil filters to you free of charge. They CAN void your warranty if you usr a NAPA oil filter, and they determine that a NAPA oil filter doesn't meet their oil filter specifications/requirements.
Since adding an amp would significantly alter the designed amperage load of the electrical system, they would probably be well within their rights to void any warranty claims related to the electrical system.
dkh on 06/29/2006 11:25:57
That guy at mitsubishi is freaking moron. Thousands of people install brand new audio systems in there vehicles as soon as they leave the lot. The audio system has no effect on say, why your tailights dont work, a simple fix anyways most likely, and anything to do with the engine compartment like a loose high tension lead for example, forget about the audio system having an effect on them. This guy at mitsubishi sounds like a class A you know what.
I wouldnt even worry about it especially if you have the gear installed at a good pro-shop and keep the reciepts for the dealership/judge.
IF you actually do have an electrical problem, (very remote possibility in my opinion) then do the following. Be nice and courteous intitially.... if things get ugly do the following.
When dealing with dealerships you got to play hardball if they start to take advantage of you. By this i mean learn the facts and stick to your guns when dealing with them. If they won't cooperate threaten nasty letters to local governing bodies. Then take your car down the street to the other mitsubishi dealer and get them to fix the car, be nice and they will do a great job.
Sincerely DKH
MrBrownstone on 06/29/2006 12:10:21
One pair of headphones...$19.99
If your car is such a piece of junk that you're worrying about voiding the warranty, buy a Honda or a Toyota. If you haven't already bought from these railroaders, that is.
dkh on 06/29/2006 12:12:39
ahahahaha, yeah get the headphones with a bass boost too, that way it will be like two 3/4"sub woofers right where you need ehm!
swez on 06/29/2006 14:04:57
It would be wise to get whatever policies the dealer makes claims to in writing. If you are not satified with that document, you can either get a profession legal opinion or ignore the dealer's recommendations and do as you wish... at your own risk.
This is just a simple case of a dealership trying to avoid repair liabilities from a customer that abuses the the OEM design parameters. I am sure dealers have had several expensive repairs that were caused by such add ons.
However, a skilled Installer will know what to do and how to set up your gear approporiately. Unfortunately, the guy in charge of the volume knob, can be his own worst enemy and not even know it.
Swez
krimkrim on 06/29/2006 20:50:54
Thanks for all the comments regarding the warranty. I do have an extended warranty on the car and I think that may be at risk.
Anyways, i've thought of a new setup that may work better for my situation.
the factory HU is an infinity 6 CD disk changer.
plan 1: Don't cut any wires, but use a harness. One side for the factory wires, the other side for an aftermarket head unit, use the 12v and remote from the aftermarket HU to the battery under the hood. then the amp and subs to the HU....
plan2: don't tamper with anything in the car. do exactly above, but don't unhook the factory stereo. Just hookup the aftermarket HU as stated. Would there be a problem if i never turned the factory stereo on, but only used the new aftermarket stereo?
thanks for any further help on this topic.
swez on 06/29/2006 21:06:59
In many cases, if you just wish to add a sub and amp to your ride, you can often run parallel tap wires off the rear speakers to feed the amp audio signals.
Depending on the amp used, you can choose the 4 wire pigtail that comes with most amps that have this feature or use a convertor/attenuator to bring the speaker voltage down to usable RCA line levels. (2-6 volts in most cases) The only issue left, is powering the amp and how to turn it on when you want it.
If you use a dedicated BAT for the amp, best to use a Deep Cycle BAT with a high CCA amperage rating. This BAT is designed for deep discharge cycles and can be recharged w/o damage for many cycles. You can even connect the BAT to your cigarette lighter so the ALT will charge it when you run the engine. Just make sure you fuse that charging line to match your cigarette lighter circuit. (20-25A fuse)
What size amp (wattage rating) are you thinking here? If using the stock HU, 300 RMS is plenty of bass if you go ported.
Comments?
Swez
krimkrim on 06/30/2006 15:26:39
well, i was going to use a 150 rms amp, but bridge it, so ya 300. that should be okay for two 10's. I've recently changed my spare battery idea because of the risks involved, so now i'm using the battery under the hood, however, i don't want to use the factory stereo. I think that if I do use an aftermarket HU, that could be bad for the mids and highs if i'm playing it loud all the time. I really want to use the aftermarket HU, and then put different highs and mids in the car, this would be more work, but would i be able to hook this up without unplugging the old factory stereo, or is it a necessity to atleast unplug the old stereo, then install a new one. I don't want to uninstall anything, ideally.
Thanks for the help Swez!
And, everyone else.
swez on 06/30/2006 19:03:39
You can add a sub amp and subs to your exsisting system with minimal work. The only wiring to be done here is a power cable for the amp, a trigger circuit to activate the amps REMote turn on feature and audio signal inputs from the rear speakers to amplifier input stage.
With a 300 watt RMS sub amp, current draw will be minimal to your car electrical system. (25-30 amperes of current tops) This will give you plenty of bump and may (most likely) overpower your stock audio system. (Mids/highs)
You can easily go with a single 10" or 12" sub and have very good bass performance at a lower cost and less space taken in the cargo area.
If you elected to leave the OEM HU in there, you'll have to install an Aftermarket HU with separate speakers and wiring. This is a lot of work and not recommended. In this case, less if often more.
If your amp draws 25 amperes or less, you can easily power it from the cigarette lighter port. All you need here is the cigarette lighter plug and a length of #10-12 gage paired wire. This way, you can turn the amp on or off by unplugging the lighter adapter. This should do:
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/showdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=265-562
FYI It would be good to fuse the + line (center pin) at the lighter male plug to protect your cigarette lighter fuse and circuits. Some of these aftermarket plugs come with a fuse already installed and replaceable.
Swez
PS Check your car manual for fuse location on the cigarette lighter and what fuse is used on that circuit. If you go this route, just be sure to fuse the power line at or below the OEM fuse value.
krimkrim on 07/1/2006 05:08:02
Swez, awesome advice!
Some last questions though, above you said "..and audio signal inputs from the rear speakers to amplifier input stage."
not sure what you mean here? the factory rear speakers? or the aftermarket subs?
...
also, when you said that the 400 watt rms amp, could overpower the stock system, that would be bad, and could, as i mentioned before damage the stock speakers right?
...
one more thing, I really plan on leaving the stock HU in the car, I already have an aftermarket HU, and a pair of lansar 10's. I like the 12v lighter plug, so i wouldn't need the remote wire because i could just unplug this right?
and also, if i didn't use the lighter plug, could i use my original idea, and take the 12v and remote wires from both the aftermarket HU and amp, wire them straight to the battery under the hood, using a terminal?
Sorry, alot of questions!
Thanks again Swez.
swez on 07/1/2006 10:26:06
Your stock HU provides amplified audio signals to the rear speakers right? (Obviously, or they would not play)
You may run additional speaker wires off the rear speakers that can feed the amp input section. (Speaker level inputs or RCA line level)
Most amps come with both input features and if you use the Speaker Level option, there is a pigtail that comes with the amp for this purpose.
If you elect to use RCA (Line level) inputs on the amp, you'll need signal "attenuators" to bring the speaker level voltages down to usable line level voltage.
Yes, if you use the cigarette lighter power option, you will not need to add a remote trigger line. One can simply add a jumper between the amps' B+ and REMote terminal lugs to turn on and power the amp.
QUOTE: "if i didn't use the lighter plug, could i use my original idea, and take the 12v and remote wires from both the aftermarket HU and amp, wire them straight to the battery under the hood, using a terminal?"
In a word... NOPE! If you added the Aftermarket HU, it would have to be installed in a remote location. (Under dash or similar) Then, you'd have to disconnect the factory HU and rewire speakers and run RCA's & power lines too. A lot more work here mate. "KISS" Keep It Simple Sam"
Finally, 400 RMS watts to the subs, is a lot of bass power. If the rear speakers are not enclosed or shielded from subwoofer bass waves, they are likely to be damaged in time with that much bass energy.
Swez
PS To keep your bass system from greatly overpowering your mid/highs, 250-300 watts RMS is plenty of sub amp power. You'll get good bump from that power level and not strain the stock electrical system to any major extent.
krimkrim on 07/2/2006 00:27:07
Hey Swez, thanks alot for the help. all this info has helped me narrow down a decision.
thanks again.
swez on 07/2/2006 08:44:54
Great! Glad this is all making sense to you now. It should work out fine and not void your warranty on this car. All you are adding is a modest sub and amp. The rest is stock and you will not be messing with any major electrical mods either.
The system proposed here, can also be removed if you need to take the car in for service too. This leaves no traces of your work, if you do it well.
Swez
PS This is a donation supported site. Care to flip a few bucks into the kitty? This insures the sites' continued operation and service to you and others that come later. Thanks!
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