I bought my speakers in haste and am now wondering what I should do because they dont seem loud enough. Here is my current setup
1 8" RF series 2 punch sub in a homemade sealed box
option to put this sub in an older mtx terminator truck speaker box that has a vent and a tweeter horn in it.
1 10" RF road thunder RT1004 in a BASSLAMMER sealed enclosure box.
Amp: USA2200 by usacoustics. currently hooked up one channel to each sub delivering approx 200 watts per channel.
It is possible to bridge this amp and get 600 watts RMS. I believe that it is a class A/B amp so realistically i should have around 500 watts RMS.
My dilemma is, I would like better bass than my current mismatched speaker set up and I am wondering what is better, getting a single 10" sub thats 2 ohm DVC and putting it in my sealed box or getting a couple of 10's in a ported enclosure? What is going to be louder and overall better sounding? Also, which setup will really make grannys dentures rattle as she stands on the corner shaking her head in utter unbelief and damning judgment?
Replies (18)
swez on 06/25/2006 09:11:32
hehe, rattle granny's dentures huh?
Yes, this amp can be bridged and give you some very solid lows in a single 10 or 12" sub design. Yes, a 2+2 DVC is the correct choice here. You can go sealed or ported if you like. The other option is a pair of 10's/12's, (4+4 DVC's) that can handle 300 RMS per sub.
That amp specs to deliver between ~600 watts RMS when bridged to a 4 ohm load.
Consider Alpine's SWR-XX22D's if you use only 1 sub. This sub is rated at 500 watts RMS. If you wish to use dual subs, consider the Infinity Reference (4+4 DVC's) series. These subs can be had for under $150.00 off the net.
Comments?
Swez
dkh on 06/25/2006 19:57:32
I took your advice today and splurged myself in a moment of weakness.. this car audio stuff adds up and its so subtle because you just keep adding onto it.... hehehe o well its just dead trees.
Anyways I went to visions and i got the guy to demo some enclosures mostly dual 10's and i must say they do move alot, however, i am not into a huge box as i prefer to carry useful things like tools rather than use my extra space for luxuries. So i took your advice man and and bought me a alpine type R SWR-1022D, 2+2 DVC and put it in my basslammer box with alternating different screw types to just aggravate anyone trying to steal the sub and then security cabled it through where the seatbelts come through, this way it provides a means to stop the box from flyin all over if i get in an accident and also might deter thieves.
The sub was 299.99 regular price but because i wore my lucky negotiator sunglasses i got it for 200 even, i know it still may sound expensive but buying it in a store i dont have to pay shipping out of the states and also i can return it easier if the need arose. I thought i did alright considering.
How long and also how do i break this boy in? I dont want to wreck it right away like my unfortunate polk momo 6X9's? the guy said no more than 75% for the first ten hours, but how do i detremine this?
Victor on 06/26/2006 08:13:00
the guy said no more than 75% for the first ten hours,
how did he calculate the % and the time??? hehe...
swez on 06/26/2006 08:54:53
Just use moderation as the sub breaks in. A few a tunes with medium bump, (~200 watts) followed by a short tune of heavy thumping (~400 watts) will break it in adequately in a few days. Take it easy on the sub for a week or so. After about 10 hours of use, it will loosen up and the deep lows will become evident.
That enclosure you used, what are the dimensions of this enclosure? It's a sealed box right? (Height, Width, Depth and material thickness used are what I wish to know)
Swez
dkh on 06/26/2006 23:56:22
This is the link to the box that I bought.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10061802&catid=
also i will paste the info as i dont know if that will work as a hyperlink
Bass Slammer enclosures are a product of Canada and made with real Canadian MDF wood. The volume of the enclosure is optimized for woofer technologies in mind. Each enclosure is Rabbeted and Dado using 3/4" MDF for a rock solid construction for longevity of the product. They are wrapped in black trunk liner carpet to blend with any factory interior.
WebID: 10061802
Mfr. Part Number: BS110S
# Of Subwoofers It Fits 1
Baffle Size 3/4"
Box Construction 3/4" MDF
Box Style Single Square Enclosure
Colour Gray & Black
Compatible Subwoofer Size 10"
Cross Brace Info Not Available
Included In Box Not Applicable
Plexi Info Not Available
Product Dimensions 40.9(W) x 35.6(H) x 33.3(D) cm
Product Warranty 1 Year
Product Weight Info Not Available
Sold As Each Or Pairs Each
Speaker Terminal Type Binding Posts
Stapled & Glued Info Not Available
dkh on 06/27/2006 00:07:34
Here i will do some conversion for the sizes in inches
40.9/2.54 = 16.1 "
35.6 / 2.54 = 14 "
33.3 / 2.54 = 13"
it is also smaller by approx 1 inch i would geuss on the 16 inch dimension because of the rabbet joint, (or is it the dado its been a long time since woodworking in highschool). I will measure the actual box tommorrow to confirm these specs.
Also what i did was i put the box behind my rear seat in the blazer and i screwed it to two sheets of 3/4" oak panel plywood so that the sub is downfiring at the flat floor of the blazer. I put it on a bit of an angle i am roughly geussing its probably 15 - 20 degrees so that the sound waves will bounc off the floor then off the glass then come straight at the front window. I hope this works well, i can't really turn it up yet but i did have it play slightly loud today after about 20 mins of warmup. It pounds.
swez on 06/27/2006 08:07:39
OK, the internal airspace of this box is about 1.0 cf. The specs for that sub in a sealed box range from 0.6-0.8 cf. This box is large for that sub in a sealed box.
This box is usable, but the sub will take less power to reach full excursion. (X-max) If you hear mechanical noises at high power from this sub, dial back on the power to prevent damage to the sub.
In this size box, the sub is likely to sound very deep, but lacking punch. At higher volumes, it may get a bit muddy or boomy too. You have 3 options if you want to use this box and that sub:
1. Add internal mass to the box to reduce the internal airspace (2"x4" blocks)
2. Turn it into a ported enclosure
3. Leave as is and dial back on the amping power (~400 RMS tops)
Comments?
Swez
dkh on 06/27/2006 11:36:53
I went and measured my actual box this morning and here are the dimensions which are the true ones.
15" wide, this dimension is the one that requires 1" to be subtracted off it because of the rabbet joint so it is actually 14"
12" deep
12" tall
The wood is mdf 3/4" according to the specs from future shops page which I know the dimensions are off but maybe they have the wood thickness right.
So I calculate as follows
(14"-1.5")/12"/1ft = 1.042 ft wide
(12"-1.5")/12"/1ft = 0.875 ft deep
(12"-1.5")/12"/1ft = 0.875 ft tall
volume = 1.042 * 0.875 * 0.875 = 0.798 ft^3
Subtract the sub volume of approx 0.05 ft^3
gives approximate internal volume of 0.75 ft ^ 3
I believe the spec for this sub calls for a sealed box volume of 0.5 - 0.8 ft^3 so i should be right in the ballpark with this enclosure.
they must have changed the the specs on the box as compared to that webpage.
swez on 06/27/2006 17:21:55
I noted the recessed side panels in the picture. It looks like the recesses are between 0.5 - 1.0 inches on either side.
Your assumed measurments are probably pretty close. However, the most accurate way to measure interior volume is to remove the sub and measure the H, W & D inside the box.
If these add up to 0.75 ft^3 (+/- 5%) pretty darn close and good enough. I think you're good to go here DKH
Swez
dkh on 06/27/2006 21:45:07
Thanks for all your help. I may end up adding in some of that stuffing yarn or something like that to take up some more space. Is there a problem with the yarn laying on top of the sub as I mounted it upside down so by gravity whatever i put in there will rest on the sub to some degree.
swez on 06/28/2006 10:37:29
If you add any fill to the box, do so sparingly and use materials that do not break down or cover the sub cooling vents. Use a good staple gun, tacks or adhesive to hold the material in place.
Enjoy your new system! Once the sub had broken in sufficiently, it should deliver much better bass than what you had before.
Swez
PS You are most welcome. We are here to help others. I see that you have contributed to CK as well. It is much appreciated as well. CLAP
dkh on 06/28/2006 20:56:40
I did some calculations today on my Hewlet Packard G-48 (graphing calculator) and i came up with a very feasible solution.
Pending my removing the sub from the enclosure to confirm that it is 3/4" mdf board used in this BASSLAMMER box, the following numbers will add approximately 0.127 cf of extra wood to the interior and seal up any areas where air may escape.
I bought 12 1"x6" x18" spruce stakes at revy for like 4 dollars. Now what i am planning to do is get out my mitre box saw and cut the wood so that they will basically complet another box frame inside my existing box. i bought this glue called " no nails" or something like that and that should hold the stakes to the inside without using any nails/screws. The new volume should be about 0.615 cf which is very close to the ideal box size 0.6 cf printed in the 10" type R manual and also add the benefit of having a double seam of adhesive to make the box airtight. What do you think, do i need to screw the wood down or will this adhesive work? Also is it absolutely necessary to put in the speaker wire terminals to eliminate that tiny airspace around where the round speaker cables go into the square holes where i removed the speaker terminals or is that nit picking?
swez on 06/28/2006 21:40:38
"Liquid Nails" is a very good construction adhesive. I have used it for many things and it has very good adhesion to many common materials. If what you bought is similar, it should be fine.
Note the F3/Qtc. specs for the 0.6 ft^3 sealed box. F3 is the -3dB at 49 Hz. This means that the sub will generate solid bass characteristics above 49 Hz., in this size box. It will handle power well too.
However, in this smaller box, the deep, low bass will be minimized due to the enclosure size. (35-50 Hz., range) This is why I suggest shooting for the middle of the enclosure specs. You'll get better low end extension in a slightly larger sealed box.
Here's what Crutchfield has to say on sealed box parameters for the SWR 10" sub. (Quoted source text)
"Recommended Sealed Box Volume: The sealed box sizes recommended by Alpine range from 0.5 cu/ft to 1.5 cu/ft. Within this range, the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 1.0 cu/ft."
"Enclosure Volumes: The enclosure recommendations have been updated since the manual was printed. The recommended enclosure volumes in the Crutchfield database were obtained directly from Alpine."
That updated info is very new on the Crutch site. It was not there a few days ago. Based on this new information, you should be fine between 0.75 - 1.0 ft^3 internal airspace. If you add noted materials to the box, (those stakes) chances are good the sub will lose some of its deep low bass performance. I would hold off on adding materials until you have accurately measured the interior airspace of this box. It may be right where Alpine recommends.
As for air leaks, yes... check the box for air leaks. A simple smoke test will do the job. (A lite cigar or cigarette will do)
Just light one up so that the smoke plume is steady and easily seen. Then, pass it around the corners, all joints and termination cup while the sub is playing at reasonable SPL levels.
If you note the smoke plume changes shape or direction in a given spot, you know there is an air leak there. Seal the leak(s) with silicone sealer and allow the sealant to cure over night with the sub removed from the box. You may not get a perfect seal at the termination cup, but hopefully the leak is so minimal, it will not affect overall sub performance.
Swez
dkh on 06/28/2006 21:46:35
mistake correction
stakes are 1"x2" x 18"
dkh on 06/28/2006 21:52:31
Can you provide the link to crutchfield where that info is?If not thats cool I am gonna go there to check it out. I am going to definetely reseal the edges of the box as I bet there are some leaks. The way i found a tiny leak on my other sub was i pushed the woofer in and i could hear the air leak and i narrowed it down to a small area. Might by harder on this carpeted box though. Since i quite smoking, ( with some success ) I dont have access to cigarettes.
Cheers
DKH
swez on 06/28/2006 22:08:06
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mOGhmsUqT2J/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&id=detailed_info&i=500SWR1042#Tab
This is for the SWR-1042D, but applies equally to the 1022D as well.
Swez
PS DKH, do you have access to Yahoo IM or Skype chat? If yes, would like to chat with you on either. My ID on both is: "swezdp"
dkh on 06/28/2006 22:21:09
Thanks for the link.
I pmed you just now in yahoo messenger.
swez on 06/29/2006 08:42:04
Good to meet you DKH... we both learned a few things in a rapid fire Q&A session eh?
Swez
PS Get a mike and headphones soon. It's so much easier when we both talk and listen.. typing, loses its appeal after a while. VoIP is the new wave of communications. Add this one to your VoIP list. It's a great program! *****
www.skype.com
1 8" RF series 2 punch sub in a homemade sealed box
option to put this sub in an older mtx terminator truck speaker box that has a vent and a tweeter horn in it.
1 10" RF road thunder RT1004 in a BASSLAMMER sealed enclosure box.
Amp: USA2200 by usacoustics. currently hooked up one channel to each sub delivering approx 200 watts per channel.
It is possible to bridge this amp and get 600 watts RMS. I believe that it is a class A/B amp so realistically i should have around 500 watts RMS.
My dilemma is, I would like better bass than my current mismatched speaker set up and I am wondering what is better, getting a single 10" sub thats 2 ohm DVC and putting it in my sealed box or getting a couple of 10's in a ported enclosure? What is going to be louder and overall better sounding? Also, which setup will really make grannys dentures rattle as she stands on the corner shaking her head in utter unbelief and damning judgment?
Replies (18)
swez on 06/25/2006 09:11:32
hehe, rattle granny's dentures huh?
Yes, this amp can be bridged and give you some very solid lows in a single 10 or 12" sub design. Yes, a 2+2 DVC is the correct choice here. You can go sealed or ported if you like. The other option is a pair of 10's/12's, (4+4 DVC's) that can handle 300 RMS per sub.
That amp specs to deliver between ~600 watts RMS when bridged to a 4 ohm load.
Consider Alpine's SWR-XX22D's if you use only 1 sub. This sub is rated at 500 watts RMS. If you wish to use dual subs, consider the Infinity Reference (4+4 DVC's) series. These subs can be had for under $150.00 off the net.
Comments?
Swez
dkh on 06/25/2006 19:57:32
I took your advice today and splurged myself in a moment of weakness.. this car audio stuff adds up and its so subtle because you just keep adding onto it.... hehehe o well its just dead trees.
Anyways I went to visions and i got the guy to demo some enclosures mostly dual 10's and i must say they do move alot, however, i am not into a huge box as i prefer to carry useful things like tools rather than use my extra space for luxuries. So i took your advice man and and bought me a alpine type R SWR-1022D, 2+2 DVC and put it in my basslammer box with alternating different screw types to just aggravate anyone trying to steal the sub and then security cabled it through where the seatbelts come through, this way it provides a means to stop the box from flyin all over if i get in an accident and also might deter thieves.
The sub was 299.99 regular price but because i wore my lucky negotiator sunglasses i got it for 200 even, i know it still may sound expensive but buying it in a store i dont have to pay shipping out of the states and also i can return it easier if the need arose. I thought i did alright considering.
How long and also how do i break this boy in? I dont want to wreck it right away like my unfortunate polk momo 6X9's? the guy said no more than 75% for the first ten hours, but how do i detremine this?
Victor on 06/26/2006 08:13:00
the guy said no more than 75% for the first ten hours,
how did he calculate the % and the time??? hehe...
swez on 06/26/2006 08:54:53
Just use moderation as the sub breaks in. A few a tunes with medium bump, (~200 watts) followed by a short tune of heavy thumping (~400 watts) will break it in adequately in a few days. Take it easy on the sub for a week or so. After about 10 hours of use, it will loosen up and the deep lows will become evident.
That enclosure you used, what are the dimensions of this enclosure? It's a sealed box right? (Height, Width, Depth and material thickness used are what I wish to know)
Swez
dkh on 06/26/2006 23:56:22
This is the link to the box that I bought.
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/proddetail.asp?logon=&langid=EN&sku_id=0665000FS10061802&catid=
also i will paste the info as i dont know if that will work as a hyperlink
Bass Slammer enclosures are a product of Canada and made with real Canadian MDF wood. The volume of the enclosure is optimized for woofer technologies in mind. Each enclosure is Rabbeted and Dado using 3/4" MDF for a rock solid construction for longevity of the product. They are wrapped in black trunk liner carpet to blend with any factory interior.
WebID: 10061802
Mfr. Part Number: BS110S
# Of Subwoofers It Fits 1
Baffle Size 3/4"
Box Construction 3/4" MDF
Box Style Single Square Enclosure
Colour Gray & Black
Compatible Subwoofer Size 10"
Cross Brace Info Not Available
Included In Box Not Applicable
Plexi Info Not Available
Product Dimensions 40.9(W) x 35.6(H) x 33.3(D) cm
Product Warranty 1 Year
Product Weight Info Not Available
Sold As Each Or Pairs Each
Speaker Terminal Type Binding Posts
Stapled & Glued Info Not Available
dkh on 06/27/2006 00:07:34
Here i will do some conversion for the sizes in inches
40.9/2.54 = 16.1 "
35.6 / 2.54 = 14 "
33.3 / 2.54 = 13"
it is also smaller by approx 1 inch i would geuss on the 16 inch dimension because of the rabbet joint, (or is it the dado its been a long time since woodworking in highschool). I will measure the actual box tommorrow to confirm these specs.
Also what i did was i put the box behind my rear seat in the blazer and i screwed it to two sheets of 3/4" oak panel plywood so that the sub is downfiring at the flat floor of the blazer. I put it on a bit of an angle i am roughly geussing its probably 15 - 20 degrees so that the sound waves will bounc off the floor then off the glass then come straight at the front window. I hope this works well, i can't really turn it up yet but i did have it play slightly loud today after about 20 mins of warmup. It pounds.
swez on 06/27/2006 08:07:39
OK, the internal airspace of this box is about 1.0 cf. The specs for that sub in a sealed box range from 0.6-0.8 cf. This box is large for that sub in a sealed box.
This box is usable, but the sub will take less power to reach full excursion. (X-max) If you hear mechanical noises at high power from this sub, dial back on the power to prevent damage to the sub.
In this size box, the sub is likely to sound very deep, but lacking punch. At higher volumes, it may get a bit muddy or boomy too. You have 3 options if you want to use this box and that sub:
1. Add internal mass to the box to reduce the internal airspace (2"x4" blocks)
2. Turn it into a ported enclosure
3. Leave as is and dial back on the amping power (~400 RMS tops)
Comments?
Swez
dkh on 06/27/2006 11:36:53
I went and measured my actual box this morning and here are the dimensions which are the true ones.
15" wide, this dimension is the one that requires 1" to be subtracted off it because of the rabbet joint so it is actually 14"
12" deep
12" tall
The wood is mdf 3/4" according to the specs from future shops page which I know the dimensions are off but maybe they have the wood thickness right.
So I calculate as follows
(14"-1.5")/12"/1ft = 1.042 ft wide
(12"-1.5")/12"/1ft = 0.875 ft deep
(12"-1.5")/12"/1ft = 0.875 ft tall
volume = 1.042 * 0.875 * 0.875 = 0.798 ft^3
Subtract the sub volume of approx 0.05 ft^3
gives approximate internal volume of 0.75 ft ^ 3
I believe the spec for this sub calls for a sealed box volume of 0.5 - 0.8 ft^3 so i should be right in the ballpark with this enclosure.
they must have changed the the specs on the box as compared to that webpage.
swez on 06/27/2006 17:21:55
I noted the recessed side panels in the picture. It looks like the recesses are between 0.5 - 1.0 inches on either side.
Your assumed measurments are probably pretty close. However, the most accurate way to measure interior volume is to remove the sub and measure the H, W & D inside the box.
If these add up to 0.75 ft^3 (+/- 5%) pretty darn close and good enough. I think you're good to go here DKH
Swez
dkh on 06/27/2006 21:45:07
Thanks for all your help. I may end up adding in some of that stuffing yarn or something like that to take up some more space. Is there a problem with the yarn laying on top of the sub as I mounted it upside down so by gravity whatever i put in there will rest on the sub to some degree.
swez on 06/28/2006 10:37:29
If you add any fill to the box, do so sparingly and use materials that do not break down or cover the sub cooling vents. Use a good staple gun, tacks or adhesive to hold the material in place.
Enjoy your new system! Once the sub had broken in sufficiently, it should deliver much better bass than what you had before.
Swez
PS You are most welcome. We are here to help others. I see that you have contributed to CK as well. It is much appreciated as well. CLAP
dkh on 06/28/2006 20:56:40
I did some calculations today on my Hewlet Packard G-48 (graphing calculator) and i came up with a very feasible solution.
Pending my removing the sub from the enclosure to confirm that it is 3/4" mdf board used in this BASSLAMMER box, the following numbers will add approximately 0.127 cf of extra wood to the interior and seal up any areas where air may escape.
I bought 12 1"x6" x18" spruce stakes at revy for like 4 dollars. Now what i am planning to do is get out my mitre box saw and cut the wood so that they will basically complet another box frame inside my existing box. i bought this glue called " no nails" or something like that and that should hold the stakes to the inside without using any nails/screws. The new volume should be about 0.615 cf which is very close to the ideal box size 0.6 cf printed in the 10" type R manual and also add the benefit of having a double seam of adhesive to make the box airtight. What do you think, do i need to screw the wood down or will this adhesive work? Also is it absolutely necessary to put in the speaker wire terminals to eliminate that tiny airspace around where the round speaker cables go into the square holes where i removed the speaker terminals or is that nit picking?
swez on 06/28/2006 21:40:38
"Liquid Nails" is a very good construction adhesive. I have used it for many things and it has very good adhesion to many common materials. If what you bought is similar, it should be fine.
Note the F3/Qtc. specs for the 0.6 ft^3 sealed box. F3 is the -3dB at 49 Hz. This means that the sub will generate solid bass characteristics above 49 Hz., in this size box. It will handle power well too.
However, in this smaller box, the deep, low bass will be minimized due to the enclosure size. (35-50 Hz., range) This is why I suggest shooting for the middle of the enclosure specs. You'll get better low end extension in a slightly larger sealed box.
Here's what Crutchfield has to say on sealed box parameters for the SWR 10" sub. (Quoted source text)
"Recommended Sealed Box Volume: The sealed box sizes recommended by Alpine range from 0.5 cu/ft to 1.5 cu/ft. Within this range, the ideal size recommended by Alpine is 1.0 cu/ft."
"Enclosure Volumes: The enclosure recommendations have been updated since the manual was printed. The recommended enclosure volumes in the Crutchfield database were obtained directly from Alpine."
That updated info is very new on the Crutch site. It was not there a few days ago. Based on this new information, you should be fine between 0.75 - 1.0 ft^3 internal airspace. If you add noted materials to the box, (those stakes) chances are good the sub will lose some of its deep low bass performance. I would hold off on adding materials until you have accurately measured the interior airspace of this box. It may be right where Alpine recommends.
As for air leaks, yes... check the box for air leaks. A simple smoke test will do the job. (A lite cigar or cigarette will do)
Just light one up so that the smoke plume is steady and easily seen. Then, pass it around the corners, all joints and termination cup while the sub is playing at reasonable SPL levels.
If you note the smoke plume changes shape or direction in a given spot, you know there is an air leak there. Seal the leak(s) with silicone sealer and allow the sealant to cure over night with the sub removed from the box. You may not get a perfect seal at the termination cup, but hopefully the leak is so minimal, it will not affect overall sub performance.
Swez
dkh on 06/28/2006 21:46:35
mistake correction
stakes are 1"x2" x 18"
dkh on 06/28/2006 21:52:31
Can you provide the link to crutchfield where that info is?If not thats cool I am gonna go there to check it out. I am going to definetely reseal the edges of the box as I bet there are some leaks. The way i found a tiny leak on my other sub was i pushed the woofer in and i could hear the air leak and i narrowed it down to a small area. Might by harder on this carpeted box though. Since i quite smoking, ( with some success ) I dont have access to cigarettes.
Cheers
DKH
swez on 06/28/2006 22:08:06
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-mOGhmsUqT2J/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&id=detailed_info&i=500SWR1042#Tab
This is for the SWR-1042D, but applies equally to the 1022D as well.
Swez
PS DKH, do you have access to Yahoo IM or Skype chat? If yes, would like to chat with you on either. My ID on both is: "swezdp"
dkh on 06/28/2006 22:21:09
Thanks for the link.
I pmed you just now in yahoo messenger.
swez on 06/29/2006 08:42:04
Good to meet you DKH... we both learned a few things in a rapid fire Q&A session eh?
Swez
PS Get a mike and headphones soon. It's so much easier when we both talk and listen.. typing, loses its appeal after a while. VoIP is the new wave of communications. Add this one to your VoIP list. It's a great program! *****
www.skype.com
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