Hi, My little amp keeps cutting out when i crank my Polk MMC-690 6X9's which are rated for 100 watts rms. The amp is bridged across channel 1/2 and 3/4 respectively to give 2 channel output. The manual rates this good for 100 watts rms each side. So everything sounds good right? wrong, i turn up the volume and the 6x9's cut out intermittantly. Its driving me nuts. Anyone have any ideas?
Replies (23)
Victor on 06/13/2006 03:28:33
check the gain settings, they must be too high, mind well gain setting is not a volume knob, u have so set it as a value at which the HU RCA outs are rated.. as in.. if your HU RCA outs are rated at 2 volts then the amp gain must be set at 2 volts ideally, setting it at lower value eg,1 volt of 0.5 volt will result in over heating of the amp, and make it go into protection mode.
Another reason here could be the speaker wires from the amp output cud be shorting somewhere over the run, this can also make the amp shut off in protection mode.
(HAve you used Y-slipts to supply the signal to the front and the rear inputs of the amp?.. if so the since your are splitting each signal into half, u can set the gain at 1 volt.)
dkh on 06/14/2006 22:08:11
I returned the amp and got another one just like it, it did the same thing, the guy says my speakers require more than that amps capabilities so instead i exchanged it on some new front speakers 4x6 rockfords and another set of 6x9's because the one tweeter is wrecked on my one polk 6x9 already after only a few days of onwing them MMC690's. So I went to the p-shop and got a matching amp to my other usacoustics amp, this one is more powerful its a 60X4 rms watts amp and its got a regulated power supply and i believe the watts are rated at about 12.5 volts instead of 14.4 like the alpine was. Well i hooked up my polks to it unbridged and then the other speaker midrange blew out when i noticed the smell of smoke. Crazy, i wrecked both high end polks in under a week and they wont take them back either, i will have to send them to polk so good thing i bought the pioneer 6x9's for backup. They sound pretty good and no more stupid protection mode shutdown problems, amp seems really high powered i believe it model usa2060. hopefully i wont blow no more speakers, this is getting expensive. A guy told me to bridge the amp to my speakers so i send them like at least 120 watts, then turn down the gains to get ultra clean power. These pioneers are 80 watts continuous, any one know, is this a good idea?
ttocs on 06/15/2006 08:57:55
you should have had the polks crossed over. 4 x 6's can't handle bass......
swez on 06/15/2006 09:50:41
That replacement amp mentioned, is probably the older USA-4060, 4 channel. I have one of them too. They also made a 4050 & 4080 series as well. You can tell which one you have via the model number or the fuse rating. All these amps are rated at 12.9 volts...(not the CEA compliant 14.4 volts we see on newer amps)
Specs on USA-4060:
60 x 4 @ 4 ohms per channel (12.9 volts)
90 x 4 @ 2 ohms......
180 x 2 @ 4 ohms bridged......
The recommended fuse rating for this amp is 35A.
If you power this amp with a nominal 13.5 volts, (Typical ALT output range) the power from these amps are actually higher than noted above. More like 70 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms/channel. That will power your Pioneer 6x9's w/o bridging.
The reason your Polks failed, was due to excess clipping on the Alpine amp used. Excessive distortion, (10% THD or higher) is very hard on small format speakers. Basically, a heavily clipped signal looks more like a square wave, (Almost like DC voltage peaks) and this can ruin even high power rated speakers.
We can proof that out as the Polk speakers were fried and the amp was shutting off due to excess power demands from improper gain settings. Your amp gain controls should match HU output voltage ratings.
FYI: If the HU puts out 4.0 volts to the RCA's, set your amp gains at 4.0 volts. If you set them at 2.0 volts or less, this overdrives the amp prematurely and speakers will fry or amp will go into protect mode.
Also, set your HPF for the 6x9's between 55-80 Hz. If you run 4x6's up front, set the HPF on these to about 100 - 125 Hz. This will block most of the lows that can easily wipe out a small format speaker set. If the 4x6's are still struggling with much low end, adjust HPF for these above 200 Hz.
Swez
dkh on 06/16/2006 23:18:46
Thanks for the all the information.
I did have the crossovers installed on the polk's and I know the bass is non existant on my 4x6's but i just basically wanted a no hassle install for front speakers in my blazer to get better vocals up front. They sound ok but not great.
Ok as far as the usa 4060 amp, does it have HPF built into it or do i need to buy one? Also, if i am running my 4x6's off my sony deck, how can i put a HPF in there? I bridged the amp today again and it shut down in protect mode so i just hooked it back up two channel style. So even though the wattage says 60 watts it actually is 70 watts? I don't doubt it this amp powerd a 12" sub in the p-shop where i bought it and bridged it was thumping pretty good. Seems like a really good amp.
What do u guys do for security so noone can steal your gear? I got these computer peripheral steel cables today that have a retainer you glue to the object, they are made by belkin, I just want to make it harder to steal my system and i can move the stuff around too for easier access and adjustement.
Dave
dkh on 06/16/2006 23:25:36
Also, Sony didnt publish the preout voltages in there manual. Anyone know what they are? Its a GT300 i believe. I didnt even consider preout voltages when i bought the deck, i was mostly just after the easy plug input for my md player in the front of the sony deck was the only real reason i chose the sony, remotes decent too.
swez on 06/17/2006 09:27:09
DKH,
That amp series (4 channel amps) has HP and LP filters on front and rear channels. They can be used independently for different functions. (Front channels for HP, Rear channels for LP and sub or HP for full range)
This amp has an input gain range of 100mV - 8.0 volts. Since we don't know the HU RCA voltage, set the gains at 4.0 volts initially. They can be adjusted later, for optimal clean output. Chances are good, this Sony HU has a 2.0 - 2.5 volt output capacity. (The older Sony's had 4.0 volt outputs. The newer ones are more like 2.0 - 2.5 volts)
Now, do not bridge this amp for full range applictations if you are working with 4 full range speakers. It has enough RMS power w/o bridging.
I am a bit confused on something here... can you confirm what amps you now have and how they are to be used? US Acoutics offered 2 and 4 channel amps in the USA Series.
2 Channels Models: USA-2050N, 2050, 2075, 2100, 2150, 2200F, 2300F and the USA-1000.
4 Channel Models: USA-4050, 4060 and USA-4080
Amp set up: USA-4060 series 4 channel amp
1. Front channels to power your 4x6's (front speakers) and set your HPF @ 250 Hz. This will block all frequencies below 250 Hz., to those speakers
2. Rear channels to power your 6x9's (rear speakers) and set the HPF between 55 - 80 Hz. This will provide full range signals and some degree of bass, to the rear speakers.
3. Set amp gains on front and rear channels at 4 volts initially. You will probably note the rear speakers are somewhat louder than the front speakers initially. (This is normal) To balance front and rears to blend well, adjust the front channel amp gains between 2.0 - 3.5 volts markings. (Do not go below 2.0 volts on any gain settings)
Comments?
Swez
PS Ask for a hard copy of the manual for this amp. You can contact the following and he/she will provide one via snail mail. Robin was/is the Ops. Dir. when I asked for a copy of same. (2 years ago)
Phone: 510. 633.5000
Fax: 510. 633.5005
E-mail: robin@usacoustics.com
swez on 06/17/2006 09:42:04
Ahhhh, I do have a scanner and can scan in Adobe Reader and send you the manual via private e-mail if you like. I tried a page and it seems to come out good enough to read.
Not sure how well this scan will come out and transfer to a document. However, if you wish to try, I will pass what I have to you for your review and records. Just need an e-mail addy from you.
Swez
dkh on 06/18/2006 15:10:50
i appreciate the offer of sending me the manual, coincidently i emailed robin at usacoustics a couple days ago and he is sending me manuals for both my amps
1) usacoustics model USA 2200 powering
8" RF punch series 2 sub, rated for 200 watts continuous
10" MTX roadthunder sub rated for 200 watts as well.
I got this amp set on low pass filter around like 125 hZ i believe and the subs are not bridged they are on seperate channels from this two channel amp. They sound pretty decent, the 8" clips sometimes and i have to turn the sub volume down when i catch it but together the subs sound pretty decent
my second amp is the USA4060 the one you have i believe. I readjusted it yesterday because i had the buttons on FLAT and the frequency adjusters were way down, i wasnt aware that they would be in effect with the button on flat i assumed they only worked when on low pass, but when i turned the frquency adjuster to the 1.5K hz the 6x9's really cleaned up there sound minus bass so these filters must be in effect when the buttons are pressed or not
i geuss i should turn them down and put bass to the 6x9's though as they ar designed for bass too, i just was amazed at the clarity on the vocals etc with the 1.5khz seting.
Thanks alot for all your help, if Robin doesnt come through then I will get you my email address I much appreciate the offer. Honestly im not crazy about putting my email up on these boards because its another place that spammers etc get email addresses from. I know i am slightly paranoid but thats just me.
Dave
swez on 06/19/2006 07:33:31
If you wish, my e-mail is: swezdp@juno.com I have not gotten any undue spam by posting my e-mail addy to this site. However, I do get more private e-mails from site users that desire more one-on-one assistance. Not a problem though...
Glad you were able to reach Robin at US Acoustics. He/she sent a clean copy of the manual for my USA-4060 and a business card via snail mail in less than a week. Hopefully, your experience will be as positive.
As for crossover settings, the "FLAT" means full range output to each channel set. (Front & rear) For the 6x9's a setting of 80 Hz on your HPF should be about right. For the 4x6's, use 200 Hz or higher for the HPF on the channels that drive them. For your sub amp, use 80 Hz, as your LPF setting to subs.
FYI: If you note less bass from your subs when the 6x9's are playing lows, you may want to try reversing the sub polarity wiring at the sub amp. Cancellations between the subs and 6x9's and subs, may be part of the problem.
Finally, if that 8" woofer is bottoming out on very low bass hits, you may wish to install a HPF on that speaker to cut the deep lows a bit. It may not do well below 50 Hz., depending on the sub parameters and the enclosure size used. To get the most from that 8" sub, the enclosure should be a compact sealed chamber, 0.35 - 0.50 ft^3. The 10" woofer can take lower bass signals and more power too. Here, the sealed chamber should be between 0.65 - 0.80 ft^3.
If you wish to filter the 8" woofer, let me know and I can give you some ideas on filtering options.
Swez
dkh on 06/19/2006 17:38:50
Thanks for all the help. Robin sent me an email and they have the manual in the mail so should be here right away.
The system seems ok without filtering my 8" sub. If i do need to filter it i was thinking probably the best way would be to buy one of those graphic equalizers that go under the deck, i took out the ashtray anyways and it would probably fit nice and look good too. But the only thing i am wondering is will that addition decrease the output voltage from my sony deck?
Also, i am not running my 4x6's off the amp, i think it would destroy them, i have them hooked up to deck power. 18 watts rms from the deck seems pretty adequate to run these little speakers. Most of the time i have the settings faded to rear and just a bit up front to get good vocals up front, but the ambience is definetely coming from my 6x9's. Ok, thanks again for all your input.
Dave
swez on 06/20/2006 10:49:54
The Audiobahn AEQ6 has some very nice features. It has 5 bands of EQ, an 8 volt line driver, needs only 1 pair of inputs and splits out to 6 channels of output. (Front/Rear/Sub) It also has an AUX input for add on devices. In all, a very simple, 1/2 din sized EQ with many other desirable features. I have seen them off E-bay for about $60.00.
Your 4x6's need bass blockers. A simple and inexpensive capacitor is used to block lows that go into these speakers. These will allow you to bring the vocal audio levels back up to the front stage. (Where they belong) For that size speaker format, blocking at ~300 Hz. and below, is a good place to be. (125 uF, 50-100 volts, non-polarized) These will do the job well: 1 pair is needed, and won't break the bank either.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-362
Swez
dkh on 06/20/2006 19:40:48
Excellent info, thanks again.
If i put these bass blocking capacitors in do i put them off the positive leads in only? Im geussing about that.
BTW Robin at usacoustics came through i got the manual for my amps this morning, which is cool. The manual covers a wide range of there amps and seems to be detailed enough. I havent read the whole thing yet. Im wondering about my one amp the usacoustics 2200 because in the manual they call it the usa2200f but mine doesnt have the f on the end of its model number. o well, it says i can bridge the 2 channels and get 600 watts at 4 ohms. That being the case, what kind of subs are ideal to run in that mono 1 channel bridged mode of 600 watts? I already have my 8" RF punch series 2 and a MTX road thunder, but i am already thinking about maybe going for something with a little more ooomph, maybe a dual enclosure or even band pass, but i have no idea what kind of subs would work together well at this power rating or if its even enough power to drive better subs?
Thanks Dave
swez on 06/20/2006 21:47:28
Put them (Bass Blockers) on the Pos leads from HU to speakers. Depending on which is easiest to service, you can install them at the HU Harness outputs, at the speakers or inline between either. Just make sure to tape them up so the metal leads don't short to ground.
Not sure, but the F may just be a revision of could stand for Full range too. See page 7 for details, but it looks like the built in (switched)crossover can be used in full range mode or low pass for subs. If this is full range only, you can buy Passive LP filters from Harrison Labs (Parts Express too) and use them for sub only applictaions. (75-100 Hz. typ.)
This is a very strong amp when bridged MONO. It can deliver 800 RMS @ 4 ohms bridged. It can do 400 RMS x 2 @ 2 ohms stereo or 300 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo. Lots of options here.
If the MTX RT's are 4 ohm, Single Coils, you can run them in parallel of channel 1 of this amp. (200 RMS/sub)
Channel 2 can be used to power your 8" RF woofer. However, if this is a 4 ohm sub, it might be well to use it as a MB driver and use an inline attenuator (at ch. 2 input) and a passive Band Pass network.
The attenuator will lower the power the sub gets from this amp. The BP network will filter out lows and highs and pass only the range you choose for it via the cap/coil values used in the BP crossover.
This RF sub, what model is it anyway? Got a link? Wondering how much power this woofer can take and recommended frequency range to use???
Swez
dkh on 06/20/2006 21:56:43
I believe its a P2S4. Its this years current series 2. Its 4 ohms single coil and it is rated 200 watts rms / 400 max, this sub was 98 bucks just for the sub. i built the sealed box and caoulked it with black silicone.
my other sub is a single Road thunder 10", it was super cheap at 30 dollars brand new on clearance, the box i paid 40 for so i am not to worried about replacing this sub. I have it in the back of my mind that my amp has tons of power for these two subs but maybe what i should do is get a crazy powerful 10" in my current sealed box and just be donw with it. like bridge the usa2200 and max it out on one crazy 10" sub, if it was the right price. BTW, are you sure about my amp being rated for 800 watts bridged ? i got to check the manual out to. It says on the cover of the amp thats its 200wX2 but as i think you said before these amps sometimes were underrated. What would you do if you had these 2 mismatched sub sizes and one nice sealed 10" enclosure with a cheaper sub in it...?
swez on 06/20/2006 22:17:20
I would skip all the mis-mash here and go with a pair of solid 10-12"subs in a well mated enclosure. I would also bridge the USA 2200F and use a pair of strong 4+4 DVC's in sealed or ported box.
A pair of Alpine SWR-1042D or 1242D's will do the trick. They can handle up to 500 RMS per sub. I have seen them on line for under $125.00/ea.
You could also go with a single 10 or 12. However, here you'll need a 2+2 DVC. The Alpine SWR-1022D or 1222D will do very nicely too.
FYI: Your manual says the USA-2200F is 600 RMS when bridged? Mine says 800 RMS @ 4 ohms when bridged. I tend to think 600 RMS is correct, due to the current draw from same.
A typical Class A/B amp with this power rating, would be fuse to about 80A. If it were 800 RMS, I would expect it to be fused at ~100A. What does your manual say about fusing needs for this amp?
Swez
PS My manual is several years old. They may have changed the specs or made some edits due to typo errors. Comments?
dkh on 06/20/2006 22:59:39
I don't know maybe the specs did change. Probably typos. I find it is not quite clear about the different series in this manual of the usacoustics line. I know mine are both series 2 because they say that on the outside of the amps.
Anyways here is what my manual states for the usa2200f
Fuse rating 40 A
200w X 2 ch @ 4 ohms measured at 12.9 volts input
300 wX 2 ch @ 2ohms at 12.9 volts input
600 w X 1 ch bridged mono @ 4 ohms 12.9 volts input
noise 109 dB
< 0.01% thd
slew rate 20 volts / microsecond
phase response 12 degrees at 20 kHz
input sensitivity 100 mV - 8V
input impedance 17 Kohm
idle current 1.0 A
What do you mean by 2 subs 4+4 DVC as compared to one sub 2+2 DVC? do those numbers refer to ohm ratings on the actual inpependent voice coils?
I think I would kind of lean towards spending more on one really cranking 10" sub as i have a nice enclosure for it and making sure it is a top end sub using my known amp power to the best of its ability. Wouldnt one good 10" make more noise even than a couple 12's utilizing the same amount of power?
dkh on 06/20/2006 23:17:47
My mistake, in the diagrams provided in the manual it clearly shows that the amps are series II amplifiers. It just doesnt differentiate the series in the specifications on pages 2&3.
I believe you said before that you use a USA4060 for your own system. I would take it then that this amp is very good as from your extensive knowledge i am sure that you would only purchase quality items.
Also, are you telling me to consider Alpine subs only because i had that one problem with my original underpowered mrp-f240 amplifier and want to prove to me that alpine is actually a really good manufacturer??? Just bustin yo balls
swez on 06/21/2006 09:48:26
Bustin yarballs eh? OK, have a good time.
Alpine makes some fine subs. I have pitched them to many here and at other sites. Their feedback was all 100% positive and after the initial breakin period, they just sounded even better.
Hey, there are many fine subs on the market today. There are a lot of dogs out there too. Just trying to pass along what I have found to be a consistant performer at better than average prices.
If you want to look at cheaper subs, consider the Infinity Reference or Kappa series too. The Refs are fine for a low budget sub and can handle 250-300 RMS w/o stumbling.
The US Acoutics amps are actually one of the "quiet sleepers" out there that deliver more than promised. Most branded name amps will preform equally well, but you'll probably pay more. It's not the amp so much that makes/breaks the outcome... it's the speakers used and install methods that make the biggest impact.
Enjoy your install,
Swez
dkh on 06/21/2006 21:12:57
Ok cool. when i get around to a different setup i will definetely consider alpine for subs. Thanks for all the info and i am definetely enjoying this install.
Cheers
Dave
swez on 06/22/2006 10:20:02
Great... glad you are getting what you need here at CK. It's an excellent resource for folks who want to know, but not get "bashed" in the process.
Swez
PS Care to set aside a few bucks in donations for upkeep on this site? We are funded by donations and some ads. If you want to know who had donated, look at the names with Gold stars along side their posts. Can to join us?
dkh on 06/22/2006 23:10:14
Not that it matters much, do people get a tax refund for joining? If not, you guys should really sign up as a non-profit organization or whatever so that you could give people a tax break. i bet it isnt that hard and that your site would really climb to the top of the heap in terms of help sites for car audio, everyone would donate who knew the advantages. I think i will donate 20 bucks, you guys have really helped me out. Excellent worthy site.
admin on 06/23/2006 07:34:25
BANNER1
It really heps alot!
Replies (23)
Victor on 06/13/2006 03:28:33
check the gain settings, they must be too high, mind well gain setting is not a volume knob, u have so set it as a value at which the HU RCA outs are rated.. as in.. if your HU RCA outs are rated at 2 volts then the amp gain must be set at 2 volts ideally, setting it at lower value eg,1 volt of 0.5 volt will result in over heating of the amp, and make it go into protection mode.
Another reason here could be the speaker wires from the amp output cud be shorting somewhere over the run, this can also make the amp shut off in protection mode.
(HAve you used Y-slipts to supply the signal to the front and the rear inputs of the amp?.. if so the since your are splitting each signal into half, u can set the gain at 1 volt.)
dkh on 06/14/2006 22:08:11
I returned the amp and got another one just like it, it did the same thing, the guy says my speakers require more than that amps capabilities so instead i exchanged it on some new front speakers 4x6 rockfords and another set of 6x9's because the one tweeter is wrecked on my one polk 6x9 already after only a few days of onwing them MMC690's. So I went to the p-shop and got a matching amp to my other usacoustics amp, this one is more powerful its a 60X4 rms watts amp and its got a regulated power supply and i believe the watts are rated at about 12.5 volts instead of 14.4 like the alpine was. Well i hooked up my polks to it unbridged and then the other speaker midrange blew out when i noticed the smell of smoke. Crazy, i wrecked both high end polks in under a week and they wont take them back either, i will have to send them to polk so good thing i bought the pioneer 6x9's for backup. They sound pretty good and no more stupid protection mode shutdown problems, amp seems really high powered i believe it model usa2060. hopefully i wont blow no more speakers, this is getting expensive. A guy told me to bridge the amp to my speakers so i send them like at least 120 watts, then turn down the gains to get ultra clean power. These pioneers are 80 watts continuous, any one know, is this a good idea?
ttocs on 06/15/2006 08:57:55
you should have had the polks crossed over. 4 x 6's can't handle bass......
swez on 06/15/2006 09:50:41
That replacement amp mentioned, is probably the older USA-4060, 4 channel. I have one of them too. They also made a 4050 & 4080 series as well. You can tell which one you have via the model number or the fuse rating. All these amps are rated at 12.9 volts...(not the CEA compliant 14.4 volts we see on newer amps)
Specs on USA-4060:
60 x 4 @ 4 ohms per channel (12.9 volts)
90 x 4 @ 2 ohms......
180 x 2 @ 4 ohms bridged......
The recommended fuse rating for this amp is 35A.
If you power this amp with a nominal 13.5 volts, (Typical ALT output range) the power from these amps are actually higher than noted above. More like 70 watts RMS x 4 @ 4 ohms/channel. That will power your Pioneer 6x9's w/o bridging.
The reason your Polks failed, was due to excess clipping on the Alpine amp used. Excessive distortion, (10% THD or higher) is very hard on small format speakers. Basically, a heavily clipped signal looks more like a square wave, (Almost like DC voltage peaks) and this can ruin even high power rated speakers.
We can proof that out as the Polk speakers were fried and the amp was shutting off due to excess power demands from improper gain settings. Your amp gain controls should match HU output voltage ratings.
FYI: If the HU puts out 4.0 volts to the RCA's, set your amp gains at 4.0 volts. If you set them at 2.0 volts or less, this overdrives the amp prematurely and speakers will fry or amp will go into protect mode.
Also, set your HPF for the 6x9's between 55-80 Hz. If you run 4x6's up front, set the HPF on these to about 100 - 125 Hz. This will block most of the lows that can easily wipe out a small format speaker set. If the 4x6's are still struggling with much low end, adjust HPF for these above 200 Hz.
Swez
dkh on 06/16/2006 23:18:46
Thanks for the all the information.
I did have the crossovers installed on the polk's and I know the bass is non existant on my 4x6's but i just basically wanted a no hassle install for front speakers in my blazer to get better vocals up front. They sound ok but not great.
Ok as far as the usa 4060 amp, does it have HPF built into it or do i need to buy one? Also, if i am running my 4x6's off my sony deck, how can i put a HPF in there? I bridged the amp today again and it shut down in protect mode so i just hooked it back up two channel style. So even though the wattage says 60 watts it actually is 70 watts? I don't doubt it this amp powerd a 12" sub in the p-shop where i bought it and bridged it was thumping pretty good. Seems like a really good amp.
What do u guys do for security so noone can steal your gear? I got these computer peripheral steel cables today that have a retainer you glue to the object, they are made by belkin, I just want to make it harder to steal my system and i can move the stuff around too for easier access and adjustement.
Dave
dkh on 06/16/2006 23:25:36
Also, Sony didnt publish the preout voltages in there manual. Anyone know what they are? Its a GT300 i believe. I didnt even consider preout voltages when i bought the deck, i was mostly just after the easy plug input for my md player in the front of the sony deck was the only real reason i chose the sony, remotes decent too.
swez on 06/17/2006 09:27:09
DKH,
That amp series (4 channel amps) has HP and LP filters on front and rear channels. They can be used independently for different functions. (Front channels for HP, Rear channels for LP and sub or HP for full range)
This amp has an input gain range of 100mV - 8.0 volts. Since we don't know the HU RCA voltage, set the gains at 4.0 volts initially. They can be adjusted later, for optimal clean output. Chances are good, this Sony HU has a 2.0 - 2.5 volt output capacity. (The older Sony's had 4.0 volt outputs. The newer ones are more like 2.0 - 2.5 volts)
Now, do not bridge this amp for full range applictations if you are working with 4 full range speakers. It has enough RMS power w/o bridging.
I am a bit confused on something here... can you confirm what amps you now have and how they are to be used? US Acoutics offered 2 and 4 channel amps in the USA Series.
2 Channels Models: USA-2050N, 2050, 2075, 2100, 2150, 2200F, 2300F and the USA-1000.
4 Channel Models: USA-4050, 4060 and USA-4080
Amp set up: USA-4060 series 4 channel amp
1. Front channels to power your 4x6's (front speakers) and set your HPF @ 250 Hz. This will block all frequencies below 250 Hz., to those speakers
2. Rear channels to power your 6x9's (rear speakers) and set the HPF between 55 - 80 Hz. This will provide full range signals and some degree of bass, to the rear speakers.
3. Set amp gains on front and rear channels at 4 volts initially. You will probably note the rear speakers are somewhat louder than the front speakers initially. (This is normal) To balance front and rears to blend well, adjust the front channel amp gains between 2.0 - 3.5 volts markings. (Do not go below 2.0 volts on any gain settings)
Comments?
Swez
PS Ask for a hard copy of the manual for this amp. You can contact the following and he/she will provide one via snail mail. Robin was/is the Ops. Dir. when I asked for a copy of same. (2 years ago)
Phone: 510. 633.5000
Fax: 510. 633.5005
E-mail: robin@usacoustics.com
swez on 06/17/2006 09:42:04
Ahhhh, I do have a scanner and can scan in Adobe Reader and send you the manual via private e-mail if you like. I tried a page and it seems to come out good enough to read.
Not sure how well this scan will come out and transfer to a document. However, if you wish to try, I will pass what I have to you for your review and records. Just need an e-mail addy from you.
Swez
dkh on 06/18/2006 15:10:50
i appreciate the offer of sending me the manual, coincidently i emailed robin at usacoustics a couple days ago and he is sending me manuals for both my amps
1) usacoustics model USA 2200 powering
8" RF punch series 2 sub, rated for 200 watts continuous
10" MTX roadthunder sub rated for 200 watts as well.
I got this amp set on low pass filter around like 125 hZ i believe and the subs are not bridged they are on seperate channels from this two channel amp. They sound pretty decent, the 8" clips sometimes and i have to turn the sub volume down when i catch it but together the subs sound pretty decent
my second amp is the USA4060 the one you have i believe. I readjusted it yesterday because i had the buttons on FLAT and the frequency adjusters were way down, i wasnt aware that they would be in effect with the button on flat i assumed they only worked when on low pass, but when i turned the frquency adjuster to the 1.5K hz the 6x9's really cleaned up there sound minus bass so these filters must be in effect when the buttons are pressed or not
i geuss i should turn them down and put bass to the 6x9's though as they ar designed for bass too, i just was amazed at the clarity on the vocals etc with the 1.5khz seting.
Thanks alot for all your help, if Robin doesnt come through then I will get you my email address I much appreciate the offer. Honestly im not crazy about putting my email up on these boards because its another place that spammers etc get email addresses from. I know i am slightly paranoid but thats just me.
Dave
swez on 06/19/2006 07:33:31
If you wish, my e-mail is: swezdp@juno.com I have not gotten any undue spam by posting my e-mail addy to this site. However, I do get more private e-mails from site users that desire more one-on-one assistance. Not a problem though...
Glad you were able to reach Robin at US Acoustics. He/she sent a clean copy of the manual for my USA-4060 and a business card via snail mail in less than a week. Hopefully, your experience will be as positive.
As for crossover settings, the "FLAT" means full range output to each channel set. (Front & rear) For the 6x9's a setting of 80 Hz on your HPF should be about right. For the 4x6's, use 200 Hz or higher for the HPF on the channels that drive them. For your sub amp, use 80 Hz, as your LPF setting to subs.
FYI: If you note less bass from your subs when the 6x9's are playing lows, you may want to try reversing the sub polarity wiring at the sub amp. Cancellations between the subs and 6x9's and subs, may be part of the problem.
Finally, if that 8" woofer is bottoming out on very low bass hits, you may wish to install a HPF on that speaker to cut the deep lows a bit. It may not do well below 50 Hz., depending on the sub parameters and the enclosure size used. To get the most from that 8" sub, the enclosure should be a compact sealed chamber, 0.35 - 0.50 ft^3. The 10" woofer can take lower bass signals and more power too. Here, the sealed chamber should be between 0.65 - 0.80 ft^3.
If you wish to filter the 8" woofer, let me know and I can give you some ideas on filtering options.
Swez
dkh on 06/19/2006 17:38:50
Thanks for all the help. Robin sent me an email and they have the manual in the mail so should be here right away.
The system seems ok without filtering my 8" sub. If i do need to filter it i was thinking probably the best way would be to buy one of those graphic equalizers that go under the deck, i took out the ashtray anyways and it would probably fit nice and look good too. But the only thing i am wondering is will that addition decrease the output voltage from my sony deck?
Also, i am not running my 4x6's off the amp, i think it would destroy them, i have them hooked up to deck power. 18 watts rms from the deck seems pretty adequate to run these little speakers. Most of the time i have the settings faded to rear and just a bit up front to get good vocals up front, but the ambience is definetely coming from my 6x9's. Ok, thanks again for all your input.
Dave
swez on 06/20/2006 10:49:54
The Audiobahn AEQ6 has some very nice features. It has 5 bands of EQ, an 8 volt line driver, needs only 1 pair of inputs and splits out to 6 channels of output. (Front/Rear/Sub) It also has an AUX input for add on devices. In all, a very simple, 1/2 din sized EQ with many other desirable features. I have seen them off E-bay for about $60.00.
Your 4x6's need bass blockers. A simple and inexpensive capacitor is used to block lows that go into these speakers. These will allow you to bring the vocal audio levels back up to the front stage. (Where they belong) For that size speaker format, blocking at ~300 Hz. and below, is a good place to be. (125 uF, 50-100 volts, non-polarized) These will do the job well: 1 pair is needed, and won't break the bank either.
http://www.partsexpress.com/pe/pshowdetl.cfm?&DID=7&Partnumber=027-362
Swez
dkh on 06/20/2006 19:40:48
Excellent info, thanks again.
If i put these bass blocking capacitors in do i put them off the positive leads in only? Im geussing about that.
BTW Robin at usacoustics came through i got the manual for my amps this morning, which is cool. The manual covers a wide range of there amps and seems to be detailed enough. I havent read the whole thing yet. Im wondering about my one amp the usacoustics 2200 because in the manual they call it the usa2200f but mine doesnt have the f on the end of its model number. o well, it says i can bridge the 2 channels and get 600 watts at 4 ohms. That being the case, what kind of subs are ideal to run in that mono 1 channel bridged mode of 600 watts? I already have my 8" RF punch series 2 and a MTX road thunder, but i am already thinking about maybe going for something with a little more ooomph, maybe a dual enclosure or even band pass, but i have no idea what kind of subs would work together well at this power rating or if its even enough power to drive better subs?
Thanks Dave
swez on 06/20/2006 21:47:28
Put them (Bass Blockers) on the Pos leads from HU to speakers. Depending on which is easiest to service, you can install them at the HU Harness outputs, at the speakers or inline between either. Just make sure to tape them up so the metal leads don't short to ground.
Not sure, but the F may just be a revision of could stand for Full range too. See page 7 for details, but it looks like the built in (switched)crossover can be used in full range mode or low pass for subs. If this is full range only, you can buy Passive LP filters from Harrison Labs (Parts Express too) and use them for sub only applictaions. (75-100 Hz. typ.)
This is a very strong amp when bridged MONO. It can deliver 800 RMS @ 4 ohms bridged. It can do 400 RMS x 2 @ 2 ohms stereo or 300 x 2 @ 4 ohms stereo. Lots of options here.
If the MTX RT's are 4 ohm, Single Coils, you can run them in parallel of channel 1 of this amp. (200 RMS/sub)
Channel 2 can be used to power your 8" RF woofer. However, if this is a 4 ohm sub, it might be well to use it as a MB driver and use an inline attenuator (at ch. 2 input) and a passive Band Pass network.
The attenuator will lower the power the sub gets from this amp. The BP network will filter out lows and highs and pass only the range you choose for it via the cap/coil values used in the BP crossover.
This RF sub, what model is it anyway? Got a link? Wondering how much power this woofer can take and recommended frequency range to use???
Swez
dkh on 06/20/2006 21:56:43
I believe its a P2S4. Its this years current series 2. Its 4 ohms single coil and it is rated 200 watts rms / 400 max, this sub was 98 bucks just for the sub. i built the sealed box and caoulked it with black silicone.
my other sub is a single Road thunder 10", it was super cheap at 30 dollars brand new on clearance, the box i paid 40 for so i am not to worried about replacing this sub. I have it in the back of my mind that my amp has tons of power for these two subs but maybe what i should do is get a crazy powerful 10" in my current sealed box and just be donw with it. like bridge the usa2200 and max it out on one crazy 10" sub, if it was the right price. BTW, are you sure about my amp being rated for 800 watts bridged ? i got to check the manual out to. It says on the cover of the amp thats its 200wX2 but as i think you said before these amps sometimes were underrated. What would you do if you had these 2 mismatched sub sizes and one nice sealed 10" enclosure with a cheaper sub in it...?
swez on 06/20/2006 22:17:20
I would skip all the mis-mash here and go with a pair of solid 10-12"subs in a well mated enclosure. I would also bridge the USA 2200F and use a pair of strong 4+4 DVC's in sealed or ported box.
A pair of Alpine SWR-1042D or 1242D's will do the trick. They can handle up to 500 RMS per sub. I have seen them on line for under $125.00/ea.
You could also go with a single 10 or 12. However, here you'll need a 2+2 DVC. The Alpine SWR-1022D or 1222D will do very nicely too.
FYI: Your manual says the USA-2200F is 600 RMS when bridged? Mine says 800 RMS @ 4 ohms when bridged. I tend to think 600 RMS is correct, due to the current draw from same.
A typical Class A/B amp with this power rating, would be fuse to about 80A. If it were 800 RMS, I would expect it to be fused at ~100A. What does your manual say about fusing needs for this amp?
Swez
PS My manual is several years old. They may have changed the specs or made some edits due to typo errors. Comments?
dkh on 06/20/2006 22:59:39
I don't know maybe the specs did change. Probably typos. I find it is not quite clear about the different series in this manual of the usacoustics line. I know mine are both series 2 because they say that on the outside of the amps.
Anyways here is what my manual states for the usa2200f
Fuse rating 40 A
200w X 2 ch @ 4 ohms measured at 12.9 volts input
300 wX 2 ch @ 2ohms at 12.9 volts input
600 w X 1 ch bridged mono @ 4 ohms 12.9 volts input
noise 109 dB
< 0.01% thd
slew rate 20 volts / microsecond
phase response 12 degrees at 20 kHz
input sensitivity 100 mV - 8V
input impedance 17 Kohm
idle current 1.0 A
What do you mean by 2 subs 4+4 DVC as compared to one sub 2+2 DVC? do those numbers refer to ohm ratings on the actual inpependent voice coils?
I think I would kind of lean towards spending more on one really cranking 10" sub as i have a nice enclosure for it and making sure it is a top end sub using my known amp power to the best of its ability. Wouldnt one good 10" make more noise even than a couple 12's utilizing the same amount of power?
dkh on 06/20/2006 23:17:47
My mistake, in the diagrams provided in the manual it clearly shows that the amps are series II amplifiers. It just doesnt differentiate the series in the specifications on pages 2&3.
I believe you said before that you use a USA4060 for your own system. I would take it then that this amp is very good as from your extensive knowledge i am sure that you would only purchase quality items.
Also, are you telling me to consider Alpine subs only because i had that one problem with my original underpowered mrp-f240 amplifier and want to prove to me that alpine is actually a really good manufacturer??? Just bustin yo balls
swez on 06/21/2006 09:48:26
Bustin yarballs eh? OK, have a good time.
Alpine makes some fine subs. I have pitched them to many here and at other sites. Their feedback was all 100% positive and after the initial breakin period, they just sounded even better.
Hey, there are many fine subs on the market today. There are a lot of dogs out there too. Just trying to pass along what I have found to be a consistant performer at better than average prices.
If you want to look at cheaper subs, consider the Infinity Reference or Kappa series too. The Refs are fine for a low budget sub and can handle 250-300 RMS w/o stumbling.
The US Acoutics amps are actually one of the "quiet sleepers" out there that deliver more than promised. Most branded name amps will preform equally well, but you'll probably pay more. It's not the amp so much that makes/breaks the outcome... it's the speakers used and install methods that make the biggest impact.
Enjoy your install,
Swez
dkh on 06/21/2006 21:12:57
Ok cool. when i get around to a different setup i will definetely consider alpine for subs. Thanks for all the info and i am definetely enjoying this install.
Cheers
Dave
swez on 06/22/2006 10:20:02
Great... glad you are getting what you need here at CK. It's an excellent resource for folks who want to know, but not get "bashed" in the process.
Swez
PS Care to set aside a few bucks in donations for upkeep on this site? We are funded by donations and some ads. If you want to know who had donated, look at the names with Gold stars along side their posts. Can to join us?
dkh on 06/22/2006 23:10:14
Not that it matters much, do people get a tax refund for joining? If not, you guys should really sign up as a non-profit organization or whatever so that you could give people a tax break. i bet it isnt that hard and that your site would really climb to the top of the heap in terms of help sites for car audio, everyone would donate who knew the advantages. I think i will donate 20 bucks, you guys have really helped me out. Excellent worthy site.
admin on 06/23/2006 07:34:25
BANNER1
It really heps alot!
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