Hey guys......i was wondering if you could help me out with something.......i have the Kenwood KAC-9152D. Can I run TWO Alpine Type R's 12" (SWR-1222D) at a 2 ohm load? And will this sound good? I have a Camaro by the way if that factors into it.
Thanks
Turp
Replies (17)
swez on 05/29/2006 23:27:29
Yes, this is a very good amp/sub match as noted, The Alpine Type R's can handle 500 watts RMS/ea. This amp puts out 900 RMS @ 2 ohms. So, I'd say you have a winner.
You'll be using a series/parallel sub wiring configuration here:
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2dvcseriesvcparallelsubs0gh.jpg
Swez
Victor on 05/30/2006 02:55:19
yup, its a nice combo, its surely gonna bump.
the actual sound depends upon your choice of music that you select the enclosure..
If it was me, I would have definitely gone for a sealed enclosure. nice crisp tight bass, with very good transients..
Victor..
swez on 05/30/2006 12:40:25
Agreed!!! This sub works very well in small, sealed enclosures and with this much power, you can go for the 10's or 12's and expect very good bump in this vehicle.
10" Version: (0.65 - 0.70 cf sealed is a good range)
top-mount depth: 6-7/8"
sealed box volume: 0.5-0.8
ported box volume: 0.6-1.3
12" Version: (0.7 - 0.85 cf sealed is good here)
sealed box volume: 0.57-1.00 cu. ft.
ported box volume: 0.75-2.00 cu. ft.
Swez
DTurp23 on 05/31/2006 19:05:04
Alright....this is all good to hear because i already had them payed for...and what else do i need to complete my system.....i know that i have to have the wiring and a custom box for my camaro but do you guys have any suggestions on what else i need? Thanks
swez on 05/31/2006 19:09:41
With this much bass power at hand, you'll definitely want a full range amp to power up the front stage speakers. HU amps and stock speakers, will not cut it!!!
What are the stock speaker locations and sizes in this model?
What is the BAT and ALT rating in this car now?
Swez
DTurp23 on 05/31/2006 20:45:10
i have 4 pioneer speakers(2 REV series in the front door panel and 2 TS-A1681R in the back all at 6 1/2". Should i get a 4-channel amp also to power these? And how do i find out the BAT and ALT ratings?
Turp
swez on 05/31/2006 22:55:45
Looks like the rear Pioneers are good up to 50 watts RMS. Cannot find the info on your front speakers. Got the full model # for them?
As for BAT specs, look at the sticker on the BAT for the CCA Rating number. Usually 600 CCA or higher.
ALT specs can be found by calling an autoparts dealer. Knowing the engine size, VIN #... they can tell you what was used in stock installs.
That sub amp, is your major power user. This amp can draw up to 45A's of current at full power.
As for 4 channel amps, these would do a good job on mids and highs:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4346.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4196.html
Both of these amps will draw just under 40A's at full power.
Now, this car needs at least 50-60A's to run properly. Combine both sub & full range amps, you are looking at major punishment of the stock electricals if it's a 105A ALT and 550 CCA BAT. That either means upgrading the BAT/ALT and power wires or going smaller on sub amp.
If you can drop to a smaller Sub amp and 1 sub, (Alpine SWR-1242D) this amp makes a lot of sense and saves 20A's:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4196.html
Comments?
Swez
DTurp23 on 05/31/2006 23:10:05
TS-D161R are the front speakers and the cranking amps on my battery are 900 it says. Cant i just go with my two subs and amp and not get a four channel amp? because i will have a bass knob to control the amount of bass, and my speakers now with my pioneer deck can hit the highs and mids pretty good so would i really need to power them? And also should i get a capacitor to prevent the dimming of my headlights? And can you suggest a good Amplifier Kit to go with my system? by the way thanks for all your help
Turp
swez on 06/1/2006 08:42:49
You can do as you like.
Just realize the HU amps are generally going to deliver 12-16 watts RMS power per channel (~102 dB SPL) and your sub system will be about 900 watts RMS. (~135 dB SPL) That's a big range difference to contend with and will be very bass heavy. (when you dial up your sub amp that is) A live concert level SPL is about 120dB at 25 feet from stage.
A CAP will not solve most power defficiencies. It can help to buffer bass hits and resolve minor light dimming issues. But, it would be a better investment to upgrade the BAT and the "Big 3" wiring under the hood.
What is the Cold Cranking Amperes rating on your present BAT? (900 Cranking amps equates to about 600-650 CCA) An 800 CCA rated BAT can buffer current damands and bass hits about 2,000,000 time better than a 2.0 Farad Cap and costs about the same. (~$90.00)
Wiring kits:
1. Knukonceptz.com
2. Street Wires
FYI: Most GM ALT's for a small block V-6/V-8 is 105-108 amperes at 2,500 RPM. At idle, we can expect about 50% of that in a stock vehicle.
Turp, am not trying to block your goals here. However, I am trying to educate you on how car audio works and what to expect along the way. If you want strong bass on demand, that amp and dual subs can deliver.
But, if your longer term goal is to have a clean, concert level listening ride, more elements will be part of the process. Am just showing you the path to get there, if that is what you ultimately want. It can be done in stages too. (as budget permits)
Comments?
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/1/2006 19:35:21
Alright thanks, and yes i do want to balance out the bass as your teaching me. The cold cranking amp rating is 720. Do you have any suggestions on what type of new 800 CCA battery to get, and what is the "big 3" wiring?
Also, if i did get a 4 channel amp, what all would i need to have enough power between two amps?
Thanks again swez
TUrp
swez on 06/2/2006 11:54:06
That BAT should be close enough in power storage to keep most dual amp systems working. The "Big 3" wiring upgrade will also help.
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801;p=
You will need a large power feed line if you add a 4 channel amp. A #2 gage kit is needed when you add a 2nd amp. This #2 line will handle up too 200A's of current with minimal voltage drops. Use a Distribution Block that allows for a single #2 input and dual #4 outputs. That will feed your amps just fine.
As for the 4 channel amps, look at the amps noted in the earlier posts. Figure 50 - 75 watts RMS (@ 4 ohms) is adequate for your present speakers.
Finally, you may see some light dimming on large bass transients when pushing the sub amp hard. The "Big 3" and your present BAT may negate that, but then again, it may not. Cross that bridge, when you get there.
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/2/2006 17:47:04
Alright thanks for all your help Swez
swez on 06/2/2006 21:35:31
Turp,
Like your willingness to adapt and explore options here. It is refreshing to have a guy take a hard look at the details, be flexible and still get what you desire.
As I see it, you have a solid starting point at the moment. The amps we have reviewed are solid performers and well priced. Your subs will be strong and the mid/highs amped, should be up to the task.
Once you do the "Big 3" upgrade, the amps will get the most possible power flow available from the present electricals. The amount of bass you use, will determine how heavily taxed the present electrical systems.
The worst case scenario I can see here, if you really push the subs hard with that amp, voltage/current dips may become an issue to reckon with later. That means looking for a H.O. ALT. (150A's or a tad bit higher)
If you wish to explore future options in that area, may I suggest you start looking around for either and ALT rebuilder that can juice up your present one or just replace it with a H.O. version.
What engine package is in this Camero now?
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/2/2006 22:50:30
My engine is a standard V6 3.4 SFi. And i was looking at the big 3 link you gave me and was just wondering what exactly i need, such as the wires, to do the upgrade. Thanks
Turp
swez on 06/3/2006 13:43:35
Just add #4 gage wires to the existing factory lines that are now there. Many good autoparts stores can sell you prefab wires with connectors or you can buy bulk wire and install the connectors as needed.
FYI: I find on larger gage wires, a pair of large vice grips can be used for crimping heavy gage connectors. Otherwise, a vice, chisel and hammer will suffice. A pair of 8-10" Lineman's pliers is best for cutting heavy gage wire. A sharp razor knife will make cutting insulation off for the connector a breeze.
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/5/2006 00:46:16
Would this wire work?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_3819.html
Thanks
Turp
swez on 06/5/2006 10:50:59
Yes, this will work. For the power lines, use RED. For the grounds, order Black of available or tape it with black electrical tape to ID they are grounds.
All you need now, are #4 connectors.
Swez
Thanks
Turp
Replies (17)
swez on 05/29/2006 23:27:29
Yes, this is a very good amp/sub match as noted, The Alpine Type R's can handle 500 watts RMS/ea. This amp puts out 900 RMS @ 2 ohms. So, I'd say you have a winner.
You'll be using a series/parallel sub wiring configuration here:
http://img8.imageshack.us/my.php?image=2dvcseriesvcparallelsubs0gh.jpg
Swez
Victor on 05/30/2006 02:55:19
yup, its a nice combo, its surely gonna bump.
the actual sound depends upon your choice of music that you select the enclosure..
If it was me, I would have definitely gone for a sealed enclosure. nice crisp tight bass, with very good transients..
Victor..
swez on 05/30/2006 12:40:25
Agreed!!! This sub works very well in small, sealed enclosures and with this much power, you can go for the 10's or 12's and expect very good bump in this vehicle.
10" Version: (0.65 - 0.70 cf sealed is a good range)
top-mount depth: 6-7/8"
sealed box volume: 0.5-0.8
ported box volume: 0.6-1.3
12" Version: (0.7 - 0.85 cf sealed is good here)
sealed box volume: 0.57-1.00 cu. ft.
ported box volume: 0.75-2.00 cu. ft.
Swez
DTurp23 on 05/31/2006 19:05:04
Alright....this is all good to hear because i already had them payed for...and what else do i need to complete my system.....i know that i have to have the wiring and a custom box for my camaro but do you guys have any suggestions on what else i need? Thanks
swez on 05/31/2006 19:09:41
With this much bass power at hand, you'll definitely want a full range amp to power up the front stage speakers. HU amps and stock speakers, will not cut it!!!
What are the stock speaker locations and sizes in this model?
What is the BAT and ALT rating in this car now?
Swez
DTurp23 on 05/31/2006 20:45:10
i have 4 pioneer speakers(2 REV series in the front door panel and 2 TS-A1681R in the back all at 6 1/2". Should i get a 4-channel amp also to power these? And how do i find out the BAT and ALT ratings?
Turp
swez on 05/31/2006 22:55:45
Looks like the rear Pioneers are good up to 50 watts RMS. Cannot find the info on your front speakers. Got the full model # for them?
As for BAT specs, look at the sticker on the BAT for the CCA Rating number. Usually 600 CCA or higher.
ALT specs can be found by calling an autoparts dealer. Knowing the engine size, VIN #... they can tell you what was used in stock installs.
That sub amp, is your major power user. This amp can draw up to 45A's of current at full power.
As for 4 channel amps, these would do a good job on mids and highs:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4346.html
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4196.html
Both of these amps will draw just under 40A's at full power.
Now, this car needs at least 50-60A's to run properly. Combine both sub & full range amps, you are looking at major punishment of the stock electricals if it's a 105A ALT and 550 CCA BAT. That either means upgrading the BAT/ALT and power wires or going smaller on sub amp.
If you can drop to a smaller Sub amp and 1 sub, (Alpine SWR-1242D) this amp makes a lot of sense and saves 20A's:
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_4196.html
Comments?
Swez
DTurp23 on 05/31/2006 23:10:05
TS-D161R are the front speakers and the cranking amps on my battery are 900 it says. Cant i just go with my two subs and amp and not get a four channel amp? because i will have a bass knob to control the amount of bass, and my speakers now with my pioneer deck can hit the highs and mids pretty good so would i really need to power them? And also should i get a capacitor to prevent the dimming of my headlights? And can you suggest a good Amplifier Kit to go with my system? by the way thanks for all your help
Turp
swez on 06/1/2006 08:42:49
You can do as you like.
Just realize the HU amps are generally going to deliver 12-16 watts RMS power per channel (~102 dB SPL) and your sub system will be about 900 watts RMS. (~135 dB SPL) That's a big range difference to contend with and will be very bass heavy. (when you dial up your sub amp that is) A live concert level SPL is about 120dB at 25 feet from stage.
A CAP will not solve most power defficiencies. It can help to buffer bass hits and resolve minor light dimming issues. But, it would be a better investment to upgrade the BAT and the "Big 3" wiring under the hood.
What is the Cold Cranking Amperes rating on your present BAT? (900 Cranking amps equates to about 600-650 CCA) An 800 CCA rated BAT can buffer current damands and bass hits about 2,000,000 time better than a 2.0 Farad Cap and costs about the same. (~$90.00)
Wiring kits:
1. Knukonceptz.com
2. Street Wires
FYI: Most GM ALT's for a small block V-6/V-8 is 105-108 amperes at 2,500 RPM. At idle, we can expect about 50% of that in a stock vehicle.
Turp, am not trying to block your goals here. However, I am trying to educate you on how car audio works and what to expect along the way. If you want strong bass on demand, that amp and dual subs can deliver.
But, if your longer term goal is to have a clean, concert level listening ride, more elements will be part of the process. Am just showing you the path to get there, if that is what you ultimately want. It can be done in stages too. (as budget permits)
Comments?
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/1/2006 19:35:21
Alright thanks, and yes i do want to balance out the bass as your teaching me. The cold cranking amp rating is 720. Do you have any suggestions on what type of new 800 CCA battery to get, and what is the "big 3" wiring?
Also, if i did get a 4 channel amp, what all would i need to have enough power between two amps?
Thanks again swez
TUrp
swez on 06/2/2006 11:54:06
That BAT should be close enough in power storage to keep most dual amp systems working. The "Big 3" wiring upgrade will also help.
http://forum.sounddomain.com/forum/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=5;t=007801;p=
You will need a large power feed line if you add a 4 channel amp. A #2 gage kit is needed when you add a 2nd amp. This #2 line will handle up too 200A's of current with minimal voltage drops. Use a Distribution Block that allows for a single #2 input and dual #4 outputs. That will feed your amps just fine.
As for the 4 channel amps, look at the amps noted in the earlier posts. Figure 50 - 75 watts RMS (@ 4 ohms) is adequate for your present speakers.
Finally, you may see some light dimming on large bass transients when pushing the sub amp hard. The "Big 3" and your present BAT may negate that, but then again, it may not. Cross that bridge, when you get there.
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/2/2006 17:47:04
Alright thanks for all your help Swez
swez on 06/2/2006 21:35:31
Turp,
Like your willingness to adapt and explore options here. It is refreshing to have a guy take a hard look at the details, be flexible and still get what you desire.
As I see it, you have a solid starting point at the moment. The amps we have reviewed are solid performers and well priced. Your subs will be strong and the mid/highs amped, should be up to the task.
Once you do the "Big 3" upgrade, the amps will get the most possible power flow available from the present electricals. The amount of bass you use, will determine how heavily taxed the present electrical systems.
The worst case scenario I can see here, if you really push the subs hard with that amp, voltage/current dips may become an issue to reckon with later. That means looking for a H.O. ALT. (150A's or a tad bit higher)
If you wish to explore future options in that area, may I suggest you start looking around for either and ALT rebuilder that can juice up your present one or just replace it with a H.O. version.
What engine package is in this Camero now?
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/2/2006 22:50:30
My engine is a standard V6 3.4 SFi. And i was looking at the big 3 link you gave me and was just wondering what exactly i need, such as the wires, to do the upgrade. Thanks
Turp
swez on 06/3/2006 13:43:35
Just add #4 gage wires to the existing factory lines that are now there. Many good autoparts stores can sell you prefab wires with connectors or you can buy bulk wire and install the connectors as needed.
FYI: I find on larger gage wires, a pair of large vice grips can be used for crimping heavy gage connectors. Otherwise, a vice, chisel and hammer will suffice. A pair of 8-10" Lineman's pliers is best for cutting heavy gage wire. A sharp razor knife will make cutting insulation off for the connector a breeze.
Swez
DTurp23 on 06/5/2006 00:46:16
Would this wire work?
http://www.sonicelectronix.com/item_3819.html
Thanks
Turp
swez on 06/5/2006 10:50:59
Yes, this will work. For the power lines, use RED. For the grounds, order Black of available or tape it with black electrical tape to ID they are grounds.
All you need now, are #4 connectors.
Swez
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