I have a pair of 5 1/4 door speakers I am going to install. Optimal alignment calls for a .25 ft2 enclosure. I do not have the room for this. Will I see much difference in response if I went infinite baffle instead? They will be high passed at 100 hz.
Replies (12)
Ash on 05/18/2006 19:05:05
It is very possible. That will also depend on the nature of the drivers.
Do you have the make & model # or any available thiele-small parameters?
MrBrownstone on 05/18/2006 19:23:38
most component speakers are designed to work in infinite baffle, however, frequency response may be better with an enclosure.
Ash on 05/18/2006 20:46:55
I agree. There is a reason why they recommend an enclosure. This is probably where the speakers get their company acclaims' from. However, having enclosured midbass in a auto is not so easy. Depending on materials, volume required, and available space, it can take up quite a bit of real estate.
Infinite baffle sometimes is more than often is the only way. There are ways to maximize performance through simple rear loading techniques and proper door damping that can rival enclosures with the right speakers.
kiowamec on 05/18/2006 21:12:56
I have never heard the term "rear loading techniques". Does this mean using some kind of acoustic dampening material behind the driver? Door dampening I will have. I have asphalt sheet, weighted vinyl and jute padding. Hope I can fit it in. I also will be aiming these to the dome light using custom fiberglass adapters. The speakers I have were given to me. They sound real good, I just test drove them free air in a box with my home stereo. They sound much better than my old floor speakers. My only real concern now is a good response down to 100 Hz because these are my primary speakers. I would rather not run my sub up any higher. Here are the specs for the driver portion.
SIZE (INCHES) 5.2
SHAPE Pin Cushion
VOICE COIL DIAMETER (INCHES) 1.0
VOICE COIL FORM MATERIAL Kapton
SPEAKER TYPE Single Cone
OPTIMUM AUDIO RANGE Woofer
MAGNET MATERIAL Ferrite
MAGNET WEIGHT (OUNCES) 10
MAGNET SHIELDED (Blank = No)
CONE BODY MATERIAL Polypropylene
CONE EDGE MATERIAL Santoprene
POWER MAXIMUM (WATTS) 60
POWER RATED (WATTS) 40
MOUNTING DIAMETER INCHES 5.40
TOTAL DEPTH INCHES 2.40
RATED IMPEDANCE (OHMS) 8
RESONANT FREQUENCY (Fo Hz) 55
FREQUENCY RANGE (Hz) 55 - 10,000
SENSITIVITY 1 Watt/Meter (dB) 88
TOTAL Q (Qts) .42
MECHANICAL Q Qms 3.04
ELECTROMAGNETIC Q Qe .49
D.C. RESISTANCE (Re OHMS) 6.9
COMPLIANCE EQUIVALENT VOLUME Vas (Liters) 12.9
swez on 05/18/2006 22:33:45
These are Home Stereo speakers. Looks like a pretty nice set at that. Should have no problems using them for Midbass/Midrange and crossing them over above 100 Hz.
These look like they are primarily rear fill for HT 5.1 applictations. However, if you dampen the doors and seal up the large access panels in doors, they shoud be OK at moderate power. (25 - 50 watts RMS @ 8 ohms)
Rear loading means to mount the speaker so the outer lip is inside the enclosure. (Better gasket seal) Front loading means we mount the lip outside the baffle panel. Here, we seal the lip to prevent air leaks that normally cause the cone to become less mechanically stable.
Swez
kiowamec on 05/18/2006 23:01:50
I just ran the numbers through Winisd. Last time I used sealed.xls. Using the gain window I am able to stay under +1 db with a .12 sealed. This also gives me a little more in the the mid 100hz range. I think I can muster almost that and should be able to stuff it the rest of the way.
ttocs on 05/19/2006 09:17:33
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2081149/2
Page 2 of my cardomain site has a how-to on easy baffles and enclosures. You may be able to make something similar for yourself.
kiowamec on 05/19/2006 10:14:59
Good idea, although my door panels already have a vented basket for the speaker. I could seal it easy enough but I am looking for SQ and the basket is too small. I am currently kicking around ideas to add pvc pipe sealed to the basket on the inside of the door to gain the extra volume I need.
kiowamec on 05/19/2006 20:21:59
I have enough room for 2" x 32" pipe in the lower part of my door which can seal right into the side of the speaker basket. Combined I will have almost enough volume and I can polyfill the rest. I am slightly concerned but not convinced about the possible loading of the pipe and the speaker not seeing the volume correctly. Anybody know of an install like this?
ttocs on 05/21/2006 12:04:35
2" x 32'?
Ash on 05/21/2006 13:42:00
Keep it simple. You can acoustically load the driver with a aperiodic enclosure easier than thought.. Say, take that same tupperware bowl in the above suggestion. With a small hole in the back of it covered with acoustic wool or other similar material. Then other less dense material can be used around the inside leaving a small path to the leak.
.
swez on 05/22/2006 10:03:36
Since your speakers have a vented enclosure already, use as is. Some EQ will help bring up the lows in them too. However, adequate power is also important. Keep that in mind as you work out your plans.
The speakers are rated at what... 40 watts RMS, 8 ohms? That means an amp that delivers ~80 watts RMS @ 4 ohms or 40 watts @ 8 ohms per speaker.
Swez
Replies (12)
Ash on 05/18/2006 19:05:05
It is very possible. That will also depend on the nature of the drivers.
Do you have the make & model # or any available thiele-small parameters?
MrBrownstone on 05/18/2006 19:23:38
most component speakers are designed to work in infinite baffle, however, frequency response may be better with an enclosure.
Ash on 05/18/2006 20:46:55
I agree. There is a reason why they recommend an enclosure. This is probably where the speakers get their company acclaims' from. However, having enclosured midbass in a auto is not so easy. Depending on materials, volume required, and available space, it can take up quite a bit of real estate.
Infinite baffle sometimes is more than often is the only way. There are ways to maximize performance through simple rear loading techniques and proper door damping that can rival enclosures with the right speakers.
kiowamec on 05/18/2006 21:12:56
I have never heard the term "rear loading techniques". Does this mean using some kind of acoustic dampening material behind the driver? Door dampening I will have. I have asphalt sheet, weighted vinyl and jute padding. Hope I can fit it in. I also will be aiming these to the dome light using custom fiberglass adapters. The speakers I have were given to me. They sound real good, I just test drove them free air in a box with my home stereo. They sound much better than my old floor speakers. My only real concern now is a good response down to 100 Hz because these are my primary speakers. I would rather not run my sub up any higher. Here are the specs for the driver portion.
SIZE (INCHES) 5.2
SHAPE Pin Cushion
VOICE COIL DIAMETER (INCHES) 1.0
VOICE COIL FORM MATERIAL Kapton
SPEAKER TYPE Single Cone
OPTIMUM AUDIO RANGE Woofer
MAGNET MATERIAL Ferrite
MAGNET WEIGHT (OUNCES) 10
MAGNET SHIELDED (Blank = No)
CONE BODY MATERIAL Polypropylene
CONE EDGE MATERIAL Santoprene
POWER MAXIMUM (WATTS) 60
POWER RATED (WATTS) 40
MOUNTING DIAMETER INCHES 5.40
TOTAL DEPTH INCHES 2.40
RATED IMPEDANCE (OHMS) 8
RESONANT FREQUENCY (Fo Hz) 55
FREQUENCY RANGE (Hz) 55 - 10,000
SENSITIVITY 1 Watt/Meter (dB) 88
TOTAL Q (Qts) .42
MECHANICAL Q Qms 3.04
ELECTROMAGNETIC Q Qe .49
D.C. RESISTANCE (Re OHMS) 6.9
COMPLIANCE EQUIVALENT VOLUME Vas (Liters) 12.9
swez on 05/18/2006 22:33:45
These are Home Stereo speakers. Looks like a pretty nice set at that. Should have no problems using them for Midbass/Midrange and crossing them over above 100 Hz.
These look like they are primarily rear fill for HT 5.1 applictations. However, if you dampen the doors and seal up the large access panels in doors, they shoud be OK at moderate power. (25 - 50 watts RMS @ 8 ohms)
Rear loading means to mount the speaker so the outer lip is inside the enclosure. (Better gasket seal) Front loading means we mount the lip outside the baffle panel. Here, we seal the lip to prevent air leaks that normally cause the cone to become less mechanically stable.
Swez
kiowamec on 05/18/2006 23:01:50
I just ran the numbers through Winisd. Last time I used sealed.xls. Using the gain window I am able to stay under +1 db with a .12 sealed. This also gives me a little more in the the mid 100hz range. I think I can muster almost that and should be able to stuff it the rest of the way.
ttocs on 05/19/2006 09:17:33
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2081149/2
Page 2 of my cardomain site has a how-to on easy baffles and enclosures. You may be able to make something similar for yourself.
kiowamec on 05/19/2006 10:14:59
Good idea, although my door panels already have a vented basket for the speaker. I could seal it easy enough but I am looking for SQ and the basket is too small. I am currently kicking around ideas to add pvc pipe sealed to the basket on the inside of the door to gain the extra volume I need.
kiowamec on 05/19/2006 20:21:59
I have enough room for 2" x 32" pipe in the lower part of my door which can seal right into the side of the speaker basket. Combined I will have almost enough volume and I can polyfill the rest. I am slightly concerned but not convinced about the possible loading of the pipe and the speaker not seeing the volume correctly. Anybody know of an install like this?
ttocs on 05/21/2006 12:04:35
2" x 32'?
Ash on 05/21/2006 13:42:00
Keep it simple. You can acoustically load the driver with a aperiodic enclosure easier than thought.. Say, take that same tupperware bowl in the above suggestion. With a small hole in the back of it covered with acoustic wool or other similar material. Then other less dense material can be used around the inside leaving a small path to the leak.
.
swez on 05/22/2006 10:03:36
Since your speakers have a vented enclosure already, use as is. Some EQ will help bring up the lows in them too. However, adequate power is also important. Keep that in mind as you work out your plans.
The speakers are rated at what... 40 watts RMS, 8 ohms? That means an amp that delivers ~80 watts RMS @ 4 ohms or 40 watts @ 8 ohms per speaker.
Swez
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