would it hurt the sub if i only ran one of the dual voice coils? what's the pros and cons? the sub is a 12" infinity sub. thanks.
Replies (17)
swez on 05/3/2006 17:23:52
It is possible to do so, but you'll need to add a resistor th th unused coil set to dissapate the electromagnetic energy created in the passive coil.
Pros:
1. Depends on the amp used to power this sub
2. Good for low powered, 2 channel amps that don't exceed the voice coil power rating
Cons:
1. Power handling is cut by 50% of the sub's rated wattage
2. Selecting the proper resistor value changes the performance of the woofer (this can be a positive or negative change)
What amp are you planning to use here? Also which Infinity sub do you have now?
Swez
ttocs on 05/3/2006 22:53:35
"It is possible to do so, but you'll need to add a resistor th th unused coil set to dissapate the electromagnetic energy created in the passive coil." ---------WHATCHU TALKING BOUT WILLIS?!
the best way I could describe this is if you were to disconnect half of the cylinders of your car, and then slapped a trailer on it. When you only drive one coil on a DVC speaker, you create a load by dragging the other coil of the disconnected speaker. This will creat heat, and you will burn the coil on the one that is hooked up. I know, I learned the hard way................... dvc subs are ment to have both hooked up, doesn't matter if they are in series or parallel.
swez on 05/3/2006 23:50:11
"Willis said"... a DVC sub can be used as a SVC if needed. However, as the unused coil travels through the magnetic field of the motor system, an electrical current is produced in the unused coil. This current needs to be blead off or the sub will not sound right.
Here, an illustration might help.
Ever seen those gadget flashlights on TV that never needs batteries? You shake it to and fro and viola, the flashlight works like a charm. Same principle here. This flashlight has rechargable batteries in same. As one shakes it, there are wire coils that generate a magnetic field. This produces electrical current. (induction charges the batteries) This current now charges the batteries and the light works as long as the batteries hold the charge. Similar to an Alternator that spins magnetic field forces into electrical current.
Well, the same thing happens to a speaker coil that is constantly passing in and out of the magnetic field of the magnet structure. It creates electrical energy. However, since this is a dual coil system (DVC) and he wants to use only one coil set... SVC, we have to null out the electrical energy created in the unused coil set. That's what the resistor does.
Did ya get all that now? GRIN
Oh, why do you want a DVC sub and use only one coil? Please explain your purpose here OK?
Swez
gnehc1 on 05/4/2006 01:25:54
Swez,
I was just wondering if it was possible and if it would be a good idea or not. the reason being is that i have two DVC subs at 4 ohms for each VC and if i wire them in parallel, i would get a 1 ohm load. and i don't think it would be a good idea for the amp to run at 1 ohm. BUT if i wire them in series, i would be running them under a 4 ohm load....i was just trying to get the most juice out of my amp, (BTW, the amp is infinity 1211 [1200W] & the subs are 12" infinity perfect DVCs)
I guess i was trying to get them amp to run them in a 2 ohm load, but it's not possible to do it when wiring all voice coils and i don't want to hurt the subs.
swez on 05/4/2006 09:57:18
Do you have a link to that amp for specs? With that we can help you figure out the best way to hook up these subs to same.
Also, is this a Class D Mono amp, 2 channel or other? What is the fuse rating on this amp?
Swez
lessismorespl on 05/4/2006 10:17:32
Here is the best place to get a diagram for wiring your subs to a 2ohm impedence. It is difficult to explain here for there is no HTLM, so just go here and drop down to series/parallel on menu to the right of the page.
less
ttocs on 05/4/2006 10:43:48
I guess I can dig that willis, but it is new to me. What about one coil havin to pull the other?
I remember back in my high school my parents took off for a weekend or something like that. I tried my hardest to keep my 50 closest freinds from comming over for a party, but they would just not take no for an answer. SOOOO I moved my stereo down to the living room and we partied like rock stars all night long, me with my twisted arm SMILE. I can't remember why but I only wired one of the coils on my home dvc sub and the next morning it was toast... I know we really didn't play it too loud that night as we didn't want to bother the neighbors or the local police. Also discovered that morning that there are some really good carpet cleaners but that is a different story and don't twist that Mr B....................
gnehc1 on 05/4/2006 11:18:31
Swez,
here's the link to the page for the amp specs...it's a class D 1200w amp
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='REF1211A'&Ser=REF&Cat=AMP
and here's the link for the subs...
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+PERFECT12DVQ'&Ser=KPE&Cat=SUB
thanks....
and less,
you said here is the best place to get a diagram..so where's "here"??
MrBrownstone on 05/4/2006 11:30:04
In one sentence, just don't do it.
-Nancy Reagan
Victor on 05/4/2006 14:37:22
in one word..
NO
-Victor
hehehe
Victor on 05/4/2006 14:45:36
and in paragraphs...
That amp is 850wrms @ 4 ohms and 1300 @ 2 ohms..
and your sub is a 400wrms DVC each voice coil is 4 ohms , if u are using one VC then that one vc is capable of taking 200wrms, and that amp gives out 850wrms @4 ohms means your sub is frying along with that resistor GRIN in seconds..
and if u wire both the coils parallel for 2 ohms means the amp give 1300wrms @ 2 ohms means each coil gets 650wrms.. again ur sub is frying in seconds...tho the resistor wont, cause u wont be using it GRIN GRIN
you got 2 options here,
1:- wire the coils in series for a load of 8ohms, means ur amp will cut down power and give out almost 450 - 500wrms.. this power ur sub can take , use a sealed enclosure and be cool on bass boost. shud do well..
2:- buy another similar sub, so that u can wire them for a total load of 4 ohms and the amp will give 850wrms and ur subs will be taking them nicely and stay healthy.
Depends if u wanna spend or no.. both the options are workable..THINK
Victor..
P.S... for the wiring diagrams here it is..
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t33
if u are looking at using the single sub then see the pic titled " 1 DVC sub series"
if u wanna buy another sub and wire both together then see the pic titled " 2 DVC Subs (Series VC’s, Parallel SUB’s) "
hope it helps...
gnehc1 on 05/4/2006 16:02:49
thanks guys....
swez on 05/4/2006 16:32:02
Agreed! This amp is way to strong for running the subs as SVC's to get a net 2 ohm load. If you want all the power in this amp, you'll need stronger subs with a 2+2 DVC configuration.
All the experts have weighed in on the matter and we all agree this (SVC coils mentioned) is not the best way to set up this system.
Swez
ttocs on 05/5/2006 00:04:02
Yo Willis...... I was at work in a customers car today when this subj suddenly popped into my head. I have one more question......
Take that flashlight, now disconnect one of the leads on the inductor and what happens? Nothin right since there is now an open circuit? That is what that speaker is. If you have no circuit, you have not current path....... If you wanted to "null" the electrical energy, don't you open the circuit? Stll doesn't make sence to me.......
swez on 05/5/2006 10:17:09
It doesn't work that way ttocs. If the voice coil is not connected to a resistor, it still produces counter-EMF forces as it travels in and out of the magnetic gap. That's what the resistor is for. It dissapates the counter-EMF forces that are generated in the passive coil.
Yes, even if no wires are connected to that coil, it still moves through the magnetic gap. In fact, one can actually tune the sub performance characteristics, (Qts charateristics) depending on the resistor value used. Just clipping the tinsel leads off the lugs will not suffice.
This technique is well explained by Adire Audio. It is called RESISTIVELY DAMPED OPERATION (RDO)
You can read all about it here:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/RDOOperation.pdf
Enjoy the reading,
Swez
pappaj on 05/25/2006 20:51:31
just hook them up in parallel
Victor on 05/26/2006 01:28:10
"""""""""and if u wire both the coils parallel for 2 ohms means the amp give 1300wrms @ 2 ohms means each coil gets 650wrms.. again ur sub is frying in seconds...""""""""""""""""""
read this , and stop giving single sentence baseless conclusions on such posts...Please... we would not like to see our members and visitors mis-led..
Replies (17)
swez on 05/3/2006 17:23:52
It is possible to do so, but you'll need to add a resistor th th unused coil set to dissapate the electromagnetic energy created in the passive coil.
Pros:
1. Depends on the amp used to power this sub
2. Good for low powered, 2 channel amps that don't exceed the voice coil power rating
Cons:
1. Power handling is cut by 50% of the sub's rated wattage
2. Selecting the proper resistor value changes the performance of the woofer (this can be a positive or negative change)
What amp are you planning to use here? Also which Infinity sub do you have now?
Swez
ttocs on 05/3/2006 22:53:35
"It is possible to do so, but you'll need to add a resistor th th unused coil set to dissapate the electromagnetic energy created in the passive coil." ---------WHATCHU TALKING BOUT WILLIS?!
the best way I could describe this is if you were to disconnect half of the cylinders of your car, and then slapped a trailer on it. When you only drive one coil on a DVC speaker, you create a load by dragging the other coil of the disconnected speaker. This will creat heat, and you will burn the coil on the one that is hooked up. I know, I learned the hard way................... dvc subs are ment to have both hooked up, doesn't matter if they are in series or parallel.
swez on 05/3/2006 23:50:11
"Willis said"... a DVC sub can be used as a SVC if needed. However, as the unused coil travels through the magnetic field of the motor system, an electrical current is produced in the unused coil. This current needs to be blead off or the sub will not sound right.
Here, an illustration might help.
Ever seen those gadget flashlights on TV that never needs batteries? You shake it to and fro and viola, the flashlight works like a charm. Same principle here. This flashlight has rechargable batteries in same. As one shakes it, there are wire coils that generate a magnetic field. This produces electrical current. (induction charges the batteries) This current now charges the batteries and the light works as long as the batteries hold the charge. Similar to an Alternator that spins magnetic field forces into electrical current.
Well, the same thing happens to a speaker coil that is constantly passing in and out of the magnetic field of the magnet structure. It creates electrical energy. However, since this is a dual coil system (DVC) and he wants to use only one coil set... SVC, we have to null out the electrical energy created in the unused coil set. That's what the resistor does.
Did ya get all that now? GRIN
Oh, why do you want a DVC sub and use only one coil? Please explain your purpose here OK?
Swez
gnehc1 on 05/4/2006 01:25:54
Swez,
I was just wondering if it was possible and if it would be a good idea or not. the reason being is that i have two DVC subs at 4 ohms for each VC and if i wire them in parallel, i would get a 1 ohm load. and i don't think it would be a good idea for the amp to run at 1 ohm. BUT if i wire them in series, i would be running them under a 4 ohm load....i was just trying to get the most juice out of my amp, (BTW, the amp is infinity 1211 [1200W] & the subs are 12" infinity perfect DVCs)
I guess i was trying to get them amp to run them in a 2 ohm load, but it's not possible to do it when wiring all voice coils and i don't want to hurt the subs.
swez on 05/4/2006 09:57:18
Do you have a link to that amp for specs? With that we can help you figure out the best way to hook up these subs to same.
Also, is this a Class D Mono amp, 2 channel or other? What is the fuse rating on this amp?
Swez
lessismorespl on 05/4/2006 10:17:32
Here is the best place to get a diagram for wiring your subs to a 2ohm impedence. It is difficult to explain here for there is no HTLM, so just go here and drop down to series/parallel on menu to the right of the page.
less
ttocs on 05/4/2006 10:43:48
I guess I can dig that willis, but it is new to me. What about one coil havin to pull the other?
I remember back in my high school my parents took off for a weekend or something like that. I tried my hardest to keep my 50 closest freinds from comming over for a party, but they would just not take no for an answer. SOOOO I moved my stereo down to the living room and we partied like rock stars all night long, me with my twisted arm SMILE. I can't remember why but I only wired one of the coils on my home dvc sub and the next morning it was toast... I know we really didn't play it too loud that night as we didn't want to bother the neighbors or the local police. Also discovered that morning that there are some really good carpet cleaners but that is a different story and don't twist that Mr B....................
gnehc1 on 05/4/2006 11:18:31
Swez,
here's the link to the page for the amp specs...it's a class D 1200w amp
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='REF1211A'&Ser=REF&Cat=AMP
and here's the link for the subs...
http://www.infinitysystems.com/caraudio/product.aspx?ProdId='KAPPA+PERFECT12DVQ'&Ser=KPE&Cat=SUB
thanks....
and less,
you said here is the best place to get a diagram..so where's "here"??
MrBrownstone on 05/4/2006 11:30:04
In one sentence, just don't do it.
-Nancy Reagan
Victor on 05/4/2006 14:37:22
in one word..
NO
-Victor
hehehe
Victor on 05/4/2006 14:45:36
and in paragraphs...
That amp is 850wrms @ 4 ohms and 1300 @ 2 ohms..
and your sub is a 400wrms DVC each voice coil is 4 ohms , if u are using one VC then that one vc is capable of taking 200wrms, and that amp gives out 850wrms @4 ohms means your sub is frying along with that resistor GRIN in seconds..
and if u wire both the coils parallel for 2 ohms means the amp give 1300wrms @ 2 ohms means each coil gets 650wrms.. again ur sub is frying in seconds...tho the resistor wont, cause u wont be using it GRIN GRIN
you got 2 options here,
1:- wire the coils in series for a load of 8ohms, means ur amp will cut down power and give out almost 450 - 500wrms.. this power ur sub can take , use a sealed enclosure and be cool on bass boost. shud do well..
2:- buy another similar sub, so that u can wire them for a total load of 4 ohms and the amp will give 850wrms and ur subs will be taking them nicely and stay healthy.
Depends if u wanna spend or no.. both the options are workable..THINK
Victor..
P.S... for the wiring diagrams here it is..
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t33
if u are looking at using the single sub then see the pic titled " 1 DVC sub series"
if u wanna buy another sub and wire both together then see the pic titled " 2 DVC Subs (Series VC’s, Parallel SUB’s) "
hope it helps...
gnehc1 on 05/4/2006 16:02:49
thanks guys....
swez on 05/4/2006 16:32:02
Agreed! This amp is way to strong for running the subs as SVC's to get a net 2 ohm load. If you want all the power in this amp, you'll need stronger subs with a 2+2 DVC configuration.
All the experts have weighed in on the matter and we all agree this (SVC coils mentioned) is not the best way to set up this system.
Swez
ttocs on 05/5/2006 00:04:02
Yo Willis...... I was at work in a customers car today when this subj suddenly popped into my head. I have one more question......
Take that flashlight, now disconnect one of the leads on the inductor and what happens? Nothin right since there is now an open circuit? That is what that speaker is. If you have no circuit, you have not current path....... If you wanted to "null" the electrical energy, don't you open the circuit? Stll doesn't make sence to me.......
swez on 05/5/2006 10:17:09
It doesn't work that way ttocs. If the voice coil is not connected to a resistor, it still produces counter-EMF forces as it travels in and out of the magnetic gap. That's what the resistor is for. It dissapates the counter-EMF forces that are generated in the passive coil.
Yes, even if no wires are connected to that coil, it still moves through the magnetic gap. In fact, one can actually tune the sub performance characteristics, (Qts charateristics) depending on the resistor value used. Just clipping the tinsel leads off the lugs will not suffice.
This technique is well explained by Adire Audio. It is called RESISTIVELY DAMPED OPERATION (RDO)
You can read all about it here:
http://www.adireaudio.com/Files/TechPapers/RDOOperation.pdf
Enjoy the reading,
Swez
pappaj on 05/25/2006 20:51:31
just hook them up in parallel
Victor on 05/26/2006 01:28:10
"""""""""and if u wire both the coils parallel for 2 ohms means the amp give 1300wrms @ 2 ohms means each coil gets 650wrms.. again ur sub is frying in seconds...""""""""""""""""""
read this , and stop giving single sentence baseless conclusions on such posts...Please... we would not like to see our members and visitors mis-led..
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