hello i am looking for some shallow woffers either 12s or 10s i need some thing with less than 5 inches of mounting depth could you help me find some and if so has any one ever herd them thank you verry much
Replies (23)
ttocs on 04/13/2006 18:57:49
I think pioneer makes some descent shallow depth subs from what I think I remember hearing. Also check out swiss audio, I remember recently looking at some in a catalog.
lewis on 04/13/2006 19:02:06
jl audio has their new 10w1v2 with a mounting depth of 4.32" as far as sound i dont really know but would expect something about the same or a little better then the old w0 line (not the best but good for the money). their 12" (same model) mounts at 5.09" which would work if you have a little room to work with.
im sure other people will know some other brands that could fit too.
Ash on 04/13/2006 22:21:44
I'm not sure about the other brands, but I'm impressed with the technology Pioneer has implemented in their shallow mount woofers. With the 12" boasting a total depth of 4" flush mounted, that makes for a easy install with a big sub in tight places.
Requiring .8cft sealed including driver displacement with a +3db peak around 70hz and a F3 from peak @50hz (F6 @45hz) is not bad at all. The 10" model with similar results in .6cft looks good as well. They also can do ported enclosures. Rms power handling is decent at 300 for the 12" and 250 for the 10". The price range is fair too. Coupled with a good monoblock amp, they could have some potential.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/300923884TRD1270-A_US(SW1241D%20SW1041D%20SW841D).pdf
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4057_104401920,00.html
There is a downside to shallow depth subs though, shorter throw (xmax). Just something to think about.
raulbustos on 04/18/2006 02:33:34
hey can you guys tell me what hte diference is between the premier and the regular pioneer subs TS-SW3041D andTS-SW1241D
i am trying to get some thing to put in back of my truck (96 f-250 regular cab)
Ash on 04/18/2006 19:58:08
From reading the manuals, the only difference between the two lines is that the premier line offers a 8" model. There are no changes in the two 12" which is odd. In that case why not get the cheaper one. It is possible it could be a misprint.
However, there is another shallow sub they offer. It is the TS-SW124D. It looks like they used different parameters to achieve the same results and sacrificed 50 watts rms to increase stroke (xmax) from 6.5mm to 8.6mm. This one could be a older and/or the first model. Is it better than the others? That I can't tell you, but surely a 2.1mm longer stroke seems (at least to me) more useful than an extra 50 watts of power handling.
Probably a good thing to do before settling is to check any product reviews available by other reputable consumers. Even that has to be "taken with a grain of salt".
Whatcha say? THINK
swez on 04/19/2006 08:08:44
Well said Ash. A 50 watt difference either way, is not going to make much difference. Especially when we are looking at a 300 watt RMS sub.
That sub mentioned is pretty good in efficiency too. An 88dB SPL @ 1w/1m, is very efficient with power. If we could see some frequency plots as well, this might be a very good option.
Swez
ttocs on 04/22/2006 11:21:14
I was in at the local shop that I work part time at the last two days. as we were leaving last night the boss/owner was looking as some stuff for the 12" pioneers as I think we will be using some shortly in a system. i'll let ya know if they are worth a darn if/when I get to hear them.
raulbustos on 04/23/2006 12:47:05
hey thanks ttocs i really apreciate all of advice here i do have one question how much of a diference would there be if i ran one 12 or two 12s and what amp would you guys sujest for either set up
Ash on 04/23/2006 14:01:52
There would definitely be an audible difference betwen one and two subs. Yet to say exactly how much would be a bit of a rough shot for no one that we know of has auditioned those Pioneers yet.
If you decided to run two sets, 450-600 rms will be needed. This will also depend on the type of enclosure though. If your going for SQ and stick to the sealed lower box Q's (QTC=.707) then power handling will be down quite a bit. You will be able to run a mere 300-400rms amp safely. Ported can use the latter as well.
A 2 ohm stable class D monoblock amp will suite it nicely without taxing the electricals as hard.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=397
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2497
These two are good starters for the price/warranty but there are a plethora of others to choose from as well depending on tastes and budget. The MTX's power will be fine in the large sealed and ported boxes. The Kenwood would be a good one for SPL though it could be used for both if the gain is turn down.
If you have a particular budget in mind or brand let us know.
raulbustos on 04/23/2006 14:15:25
well fiirst i would run a sealed box and i am looking at spending arround 200 for amp im looking for more of sound quality than spl for right now i dont care which brand i go with i just want to use a really good quality amp
Ash on 04/23/2006 14:48:53
Then that Kenwood would work well within that budget with power to spare on a SQ application. Other quality class D amps within that power range are going to be pricier.
raulbustos on 05/2/2006 02:36:58
has any one used onr of those bass tubes if so how good do they work?
ttocs on 05/2/2006 11:29:12
my first system used bazooka 6.5's as that was all I could fit behind the seat of my truck. I thought they sounded pretty good considering the size.
raulbustos on 05/2/2006 12:23:12
it looks interesting and i think it could fit behind my seat what kind of truck did you put it in
Ash on 05/2/2006 18:02:35
Back when Bazooka's was impressive, other subs were not designed to take small boxes. Nowadays there are plenty subs that can outperform the tubes in a narrower footprinted box. Depending on the size of the truck a good pair of eight inch coupled with a decent amp and properly designed (to your musical tastes) box can't be beat.
Don't get me wrong. Bazooka's sound good, but without a subsonic filter the low end can get pretty sloppy. If they ever add one to them, they will greatly improve their products.
raulbustos on 05/2/2006 23:27:38
ah i see well after i really stand back and look at things i really dont think im going to go with the shalow woffers i really dont need anything to strong all i really want to do is add some nice clean bass to my truck i have a pioneere deh3600 i think sony 6.5 in the front and kenwood 4x10 in the rear this is a regular cab with a bench seat and since im six foot tall i put the seat all the way back so there is not verry much room back there but i want to put some bass so what do youall think the thought of an 8 or a bass tube sounds prety good to me but once again wh2at do you guys think
Ash on 05/3/2006 18:01:28
The 8" tube will eat more real estate fore and aft in the cab as the tube must sit sideways.
As a example: let's just say you have a normal *" sub with a mounting depth of 4-5". Mounted in a box that is about 6.5 in depth. Now compare that to the tube which is at least 8" in total diameter.
1.5 inches doesn't sound like much until you see where your seat position is. The best thing to do is go to a local shop and ask them can they position a tube behind your seat. You don't need it hooked up. Just to be able to see if your going to be comfortable with the room it will take up.
ttocs on 05/3/2006 23:05:17
I put mine in my ranger. I eventually "upgraded" JL 8's, and then to a soundstream 10"(this was obviously a few years ago). I say "upgraded" as I never really thought the bigger speakers sounded better while I was loosin clicks on the seats. I think the tubes have an advantage as they play out to the side of the vehicle and I had more then a few inches between the speaker and the wall, while with the bigger speakers they were always rubbing up aginst the back of my seat and sounded muffled.
Your box comparison would work except you have to remember that you need a couple of inches between the back of the speaker and the box to allow breathing for most vented pole pieces, and then 3/4" for the average thickness of most boxes, and now don't forget that the speaker will be mounted at the same angle as the back seat, and the magnet almost always touches the back of the box. I have had to cut wholes in most truck boxes and then glass the back to allow the speaker enough room behind it. I think it is just more trouble then it is worth but you be the judge. Does circuit still have the ability to put a sub in your car to let you hear it? I think they have SAS bazookas.
An 8" may be too big, but if you are not lookin to win spl comps the 6.5 will suprise you. Get on that has an onboard amp and you will not have to find a place to hide the amp.
raulbustos on 05/7/2006 12:36:21
see guys there is only one problem here i live in a verry little city we have no audio shops here in town and no one that even sells car audio the closses place is 200 miles away and with gas been a little over $3 and its a f250 it would cost me 200 to even go see if one would fit i order everything ive ever gotten through mail. so i have found the 200watt 6 inch for arround $150 and the 100 watt for $110 do you all think the 200 is worth the diff or would there not be much of a difference here
swez on 05/7/2006 14:27:26
Raul, I am very confused here... your car noted above is a 94 Pontiac Sunbird. Now, you mention a need for shallow woofers and an F-250 PU truck. Another post has you looking at a Kenwood KAC-9152D (900 Wrms) amp.
Can you confirm the intended vehicle and how much enclosure space is available for the vehicle you plan to install gear into???
Swez
raulbustos on 05/7/2006 19:40:41
ah i see well i have like 4 vehicles my (94 sunbird)(96 f250)(85chevy c10)(88 camaro z28) i use them in respective order ive had a system in my sunbird for many years and is my usual daily driver my f250 is the truck that i normaly use for any work that requires a truck the 85 is a toy prety much drive it like once a month and the camaro hasn't even been started in the last 2 months since i do drive the sunbird and the f250 on a reglar basis i like to have a nice audio setup the sunbird has the more expensive and elaberate but i have allways wanted to add some bass to the ford as well this is the one with limited space and im looking for a better setup for the sunbird than the last one i had (audiobahn a8000t and aw121t ) hope that helps to clarify
raulbustos on 05/11/2006 00:45:32
so like i said i have found the 200watt 6 inch for arround $150 and the 100 watt for $110 do you all think the 200 is worth the diff or would there not be much of a difference here
ttocs on 05/11/2006 05:29:35
I would probably pay the difference as you will always wonder if you should have, if you don't.....
Replies (23)
ttocs on 04/13/2006 18:57:49
I think pioneer makes some descent shallow depth subs from what I think I remember hearing. Also check out swiss audio, I remember recently looking at some in a catalog.
lewis on 04/13/2006 19:02:06
jl audio has their new 10w1v2 with a mounting depth of 4.32" as far as sound i dont really know but would expect something about the same or a little better then the old w0 line (not the best but good for the money). their 12" (same model) mounts at 5.09" which would work if you have a little room to work with.
im sure other people will know some other brands that could fit too.
Ash on 04/13/2006 22:21:44
I'm not sure about the other brands, but I'm impressed with the technology Pioneer has implemented in their shallow mount woofers. With the 12" boasting a total depth of 4" flush mounted, that makes for a easy install with a big sub in tight places.
Requiring .8cft sealed including driver displacement with a +3db peak around 70hz and a F3 from peak @50hz (F6 @45hz) is not bad at all. The 10" model with similar results in .6cft looks good as well. They also can do ported enclosures. Rms power handling is decent at 300 for the 12" and 250 for the 10". The price range is fair too. Coupled with a good monoblock amp, they could have some potential.
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pio/pe/images/portal/cit_11221/300923884TRD1270-A_US(SW1241D%20SW1041D%20SW841D).pdf
http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/article/0,,2076_4057_104401920,00.html
There is a downside to shallow depth subs though, shorter throw (xmax). Just something to think about.
raulbustos on 04/18/2006 02:33:34
hey can you guys tell me what hte diference is between the premier and the regular pioneer subs TS-SW3041D andTS-SW1241D
i am trying to get some thing to put in back of my truck (96 f-250 regular cab)
Ash on 04/18/2006 19:58:08
From reading the manuals, the only difference between the two lines is that the premier line offers a 8" model. There are no changes in the two 12" which is odd. In that case why not get the cheaper one. It is possible it could be a misprint.
However, there is another shallow sub they offer. It is the TS-SW124D. It looks like they used different parameters to achieve the same results and sacrificed 50 watts rms to increase stroke (xmax) from 6.5mm to 8.6mm. This one could be a older and/or the first model. Is it better than the others? That I can't tell you, but surely a 2.1mm longer stroke seems (at least to me) more useful than an extra 50 watts of power handling.
Probably a good thing to do before settling is to check any product reviews available by other reputable consumers. Even that has to be "taken with a grain of salt".
Whatcha say? THINK
swez on 04/19/2006 08:08:44
Well said Ash. A 50 watt difference either way, is not going to make much difference. Especially when we are looking at a 300 watt RMS sub.
That sub mentioned is pretty good in efficiency too. An 88dB SPL @ 1w/1m, is very efficient with power. If we could see some frequency plots as well, this might be a very good option.
Swez
ttocs on 04/22/2006 11:21:14
I was in at the local shop that I work part time at the last two days. as we were leaving last night the boss/owner was looking as some stuff for the 12" pioneers as I think we will be using some shortly in a system. i'll let ya know if they are worth a darn if/when I get to hear them.
raulbustos on 04/23/2006 12:47:05
hey thanks ttocs i really apreciate all of advice here i do have one question how much of a diference would there be if i ran one 12 or two 12s and what amp would you guys sujest for either set up
Ash on 04/23/2006 14:01:52
There would definitely be an audible difference betwen one and two subs. Yet to say exactly how much would be a bit of a rough shot for no one that we know of has auditioned those Pioneers yet.
If you decided to run two sets, 450-600 rms will be needed. This will also depend on the type of enclosure though. If your going for SQ and stick to the sealed lower box Q's (QTC=.707) then power handling will be down quite a bit. You will be able to run a mere 300-400rms amp safely. Ported can use the latter as well.
A 2 ohm stable class D monoblock amp will suite it nicely without taxing the electricals as hard.
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=397
http://www.woofersetc.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=product.display&Product_ID=2497
These two are good starters for the price/warranty but there are a plethora of others to choose from as well depending on tastes and budget. The MTX's power will be fine in the large sealed and ported boxes. The Kenwood would be a good one for SPL though it could be used for both if the gain is turn down.
If you have a particular budget in mind or brand let us know.
raulbustos on 04/23/2006 14:15:25
well fiirst i would run a sealed box and i am looking at spending arround 200 for amp im looking for more of sound quality than spl for right now i dont care which brand i go with i just want to use a really good quality amp
Ash on 04/23/2006 14:48:53
Then that Kenwood would work well within that budget with power to spare on a SQ application. Other quality class D amps within that power range are going to be pricier.
raulbustos on 05/2/2006 02:36:58
has any one used onr of those bass tubes if so how good do they work?
ttocs on 05/2/2006 11:29:12
my first system used bazooka 6.5's as that was all I could fit behind the seat of my truck. I thought they sounded pretty good considering the size.
raulbustos on 05/2/2006 12:23:12
it looks interesting and i think it could fit behind my seat what kind of truck did you put it in
Ash on 05/2/2006 18:02:35
Back when Bazooka's was impressive, other subs were not designed to take small boxes. Nowadays there are plenty subs that can outperform the tubes in a narrower footprinted box. Depending on the size of the truck a good pair of eight inch coupled with a decent amp and properly designed (to your musical tastes) box can't be beat.
Don't get me wrong. Bazooka's sound good, but without a subsonic filter the low end can get pretty sloppy. If they ever add one to them, they will greatly improve their products.
raulbustos on 05/2/2006 23:27:38
ah i see well after i really stand back and look at things i really dont think im going to go with the shalow woffers i really dont need anything to strong all i really want to do is add some nice clean bass to my truck i have a pioneere deh3600 i think sony 6.5 in the front and kenwood 4x10 in the rear this is a regular cab with a bench seat and since im six foot tall i put the seat all the way back so there is not verry much room back there but i want to put some bass so what do youall think the thought of an 8 or a bass tube sounds prety good to me but once again wh2at do you guys think
Ash on 05/3/2006 18:01:28
The 8" tube will eat more real estate fore and aft in the cab as the tube must sit sideways.
As a example: let's just say you have a normal *" sub with a mounting depth of 4-5". Mounted in a box that is about 6.5 in depth. Now compare that to the tube which is at least 8" in total diameter.
1.5 inches doesn't sound like much until you see where your seat position is. The best thing to do is go to a local shop and ask them can they position a tube behind your seat. You don't need it hooked up. Just to be able to see if your going to be comfortable with the room it will take up.
ttocs on 05/3/2006 23:05:17
I put mine in my ranger. I eventually "upgraded" JL 8's, and then to a soundstream 10"(this was obviously a few years ago). I say "upgraded" as I never really thought the bigger speakers sounded better while I was loosin clicks on the seats. I think the tubes have an advantage as they play out to the side of the vehicle and I had more then a few inches between the speaker and the wall, while with the bigger speakers they were always rubbing up aginst the back of my seat and sounded muffled.
Your box comparison would work except you have to remember that you need a couple of inches between the back of the speaker and the box to allow breathing for most vented pole pieces, and then 3/4" for the average thickness of most boxes, and now don't forget that the speaker will be mounted at the same angle as the back seat, and the magnet almost always touches the back of the box. I have had to cut wholes in most truck boxes and then glass the back to allow the speaker enough room behind it. I think it is just more trouble then it is worth but you be the judge. Does circuit still have the ability to put a sub in your car to let you hear it? I think they have SAS bazookas.
An 8" may be too big, but if you are not lookin to win spl comps the 6.5 will suprise you. Get on that has an onboard amp and you will not have to find a place to hide the amp.
raulbustos on 05/7/2006 12:36:21
see guys there is only one problem here i live in a verry little city we have no audio shops here in town and no one that even sells car audio the closses place is 200 miles away and with gas been a little over $3 and its a f250 it would cost me 200 to even go see if one would fit i order everything ive ever gotten through mail. so i have found the 200watt 6 inch for arround $150 and the 100 watt for $110 do you all think the 200 is worth the diff or would there not be much of a difference here
swez on 05/7/2006 14:27:26
Raul, I am very confused here... your car noted above is a 94 Pontiac Sunbird. Now, you mention a need for shallow woofers and an F-250 PU truck. Another post has you looking at a Kenwood KAC-9152D (900 Wrms) amp.
Can you confirm the intended vehicle and how much enclosure space is available for the vehicle you plan to install gear into???
Swez
raulbustos on 05/7/2006 19:40:41
ah i see well i have like 4 vehicles my (94 sunbird)(96 f250)(85chevy c10)(88 camaro z28) i use them in respective order ive had a system in my sunbird for many years and is my usual daily driver my f250 is the truck that i normaly use for any work that requires a truck the 85 is a toy prety much drive it like once a month and the camaro hasn't even been started in the last 2 months since i do drive the sunbird and the f250 on a reglar basis i like to have a nice audio setup the sunbird has the more expensive and elaberate but i have allways wanted to add some bass to the ford as well this is the one with limited space and im looking for a better setup for the sunbird than the last one i had (audiobahn a8000t and aw121t ) hope that helps to clarify
raulbustos on 05/11/2006 00:45:32
so like i said i have found the 200watt 6 inch for arround $150 and the 100 watt for $110 do you all think the 200 is worth the diff or would there not be much of a difference here
ttocs on 05/11/2006 05:29:35
I would probably pay the difference as you will always wonder if you should have, if you don't.....
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