Hey, Thanks for any opinions you all may have for me!
First off I have been a die hard fan of JL Audio forever.
I think it's time to change and wanted to find something alittle different. When I moved back here to Indiana there are few dealers who carry JL, And the ones that do charge you an arm and a leg!!! I did some research and asked around EVERYWHERE, What I need from you guys is your opinion on a choice I made. I have a 1990 Ford Ranger. The subs will be in the bed of the truck so room is not a issue. I bought (4) SW7324 Eclipse Subs (DVP) and was told when I asked that they will run right along with the JL W6's. The Eclipse Subs I bought are awsome looking!!! I will be running a 4 ohm load. Now powering these Subs I thought and decided to go with (2) DA7232 Amps (4,000) Watts each amp! The reason I had to buy 2 of them was because you can't wire all 4 subs to 4 Ohms using one amp, So that's why I bought 2 of them. One amp will run to subs and the other amp, The other 2 and so on. All the subs will be in one box, Sealed. I know these subs have to have seperate chanbers, Two in one chamber & Two in the other. So tell me please.....Will these subs pound like I assume or shall I trade these for some JL's ??? All the subs and amps I have are BRAN NEW, Never hooked up. I have no problem hooking stuff up I just haven't ventured into other subs and need some help on Ideas Please.
Thank you very much!!!
Tuknlugz
Replies (27)
compvr15s on 04/12/2006 22:53:18
you know how much your going to have to spend just to run 4000watts of power on ur electrical upgrades. includes new high output alternator, new battery, new wire to run between the battery and the alt, and grounds???? thats gonna be alot right there.... you should get some good bass but why not trade the subs in for different voice coils so you can run off of 1 amp.... have heard very good things about eclipse subs, same with jl audio, both are top notch manufactures... but there are many other companys out there that will produce more bass for less cost... just have to be willing to test new waters ya know....
lessismorespl on 04/13/2006 10:14:25
Agreed. Eclipse makes decent subs, but they are nothing special compared others in the same price range. Much like JL lines, (W3v2 and up), Eclipse does not make anything special until you get to the Aluminum and Titatium lines. You should research a little more before commiting to one specific brand.
You will definately need power upgrades. They will be rather costly also. Unless of course you like replacing alts every other month. For that many watts, you will need at least 200 amp (90-95 amp on idle).
less
tuknlugz on 04/13/2006 17:30:56
Thanks guys, I did purchace the Aluminum series Subs and knew going in that power upgrades would be needed. I have installed several systems in my past and know that a RED/Yellow top batterie/s will be needed. I did already in the past upgrade my Alt to 90 Amps. All I need now is (2) 1F Caps and wire upgrade, That's about it really, Well I know I'll need a Battery Iceltr too. I'm only going to be putting 500 Watts to each sub RMS so there will be plenty of power left over in case I want to add more later. I just didn't want to over load the amp by makeing it push 4 12's ya know and overheating it.
So anyway what you are saying is that the Aluminum series is good then?? If so that's what I have.....The SW7324 DVP Aluminum Subs.
Thanks Guys....REALLY happy to get some good advice, It helps alot on second opinions!!!
compvr15s on 04/14/2006 06:08:14
another bit of my 2cents lol. i would not waiste the money of the caps, unless you are going for looks. the wire upgrade and battery upgrade will sovle any problems that the cap will help with, if your lights are dimming after you upgrade battery/wires then you need a more powerful alternator. you said you upgraded the alt already, is that at idle or at rated rms. cuz 90 amps at 2000-3000 rpms is not going to supply proper power to those amps... run the risk of damaging ur equipment if you dont poperly feed them the power needed.... also on the subs, its 90% install, 10% equipment, your enclosure here is going to be the key, and the way you vent the bass into your cab through the bed of the truck.... as for the amps, if you are runnin it at a 2omh load it should not overheat or if so it should take a long time, you placing them in the cab or back in the bed somewhere??? if they are in the bed i see no reason they should overheat, lots of room back there to cool off...
really wont be a difference in power draw with 1amp at 2ohms or 2 amps at 4 omhs.... still producing the same power, just tryin to cut expenses, but if you plan for upgrades later then stick with the 2 if you like....just really hope ya can supply the required power. well its a lil past 5am and im a lil drunk so i should prolly pass out, can go on further when i come back to life lol
tuknlugz on 04/14/2006 20:21:46
compvr15s ,
Thanks again man! Your advice sure helps alot. Seems I really need to get it in gear, I have become extreamly rusty in the audio field. Hell when I was high school I was puttin' in systems left and right like nothing. I knew that under powering an amp is just as bad as overpowering ect....But anyway to answer your questions, When I lived in Florida I took the stock ALT from 40 to aprox 90A. All I knew is that they changed the guts in the ALT to put out more....And I was getting about 70+ at an Idle and about 90 when I ran the engine up a lil. I thought for sure I would need to get caps?? Guess not the way you make it sound? That's cool if I don't need them. I have a cut through goin' through the bed and in the past I used 3 15'2 Fosgates and a MTX 225HO to push them, With a red top battery and my ALT upgraded I never had any problem EVER! I ran the subs in Series and bridged down to a 2 Ohm load. It pounded man. Anyway Several years later I now want the same again. I sat in a Full size chevy with (4) 12's and I'll never forget the experience man. Let me give you my specs real quick on the 12's 4+4 Ohms...Voice Coil DCR 4.12+4.12 Ohms,RMS Power continuous is 400W, RMS Power Intermittent (Pk) 800W, (FR) 20-500Hz,...And the magnet lbs on these is 145oz & they are the Aluminum subs DVP. You were talking about Sealed boxes and ported boxes....Now here again my question is I'm not sure what to do here, All I know in the past I never had a ported box, Didn't like the way it sounded to be honest. My old school rule was if the Back of the speaker had a hole going through it you could put the sub in a sealed box, If not then it needed to be in a ported box so the speaker would not get damaged. I always though the bass hit harder in a sealed box....Now with what I have I'll need a battery isolator right, If I don't use the caps and a newer battery right? Or is there a aftermarket ALT I'll need to buy, Like one from Stinger? Anyway yes the Amps will be bolted down in the bed of the truck in the box...so they should remain cool with no problems.....Well man, again that's about it and I'm going to go join the party....Just got off of work and a Cold Beer sounds good about now so I'll sit on it till later....Holler at ya later man....& thanks again!!!!!
Tuknlugz
compvr15s on 04/15/2006 07:12:29
i really have no experience with cut through desings, but id assume that sealed would probably be the best here.... but to make things straight, ported enclousres will tend to be a lil louder around port frequency. but with sealed boxes u will get tighter, cleaner bass..... as for the hole in the mangnet. that does not mean anything when deciding box type. if it has a hole in the magnent it will be cooled easier, if there is no hole then it will get hotter, may need a lil more space between end of magnent and the side of the enclosure but, usuallly if it will fit in a sealed box it will also go in a ported box with about +3db of output around tuning..... yea definitly save your money on the caps and use it towards a battery and alt upgrade. that alternator you had rebuilt still is too weak to power the mentioned amps. id say a 200 amp alternator or better is needed to feed these amps, thats alot of power you are dealing with, there are many online marketers for high ouptut als, i would not go with stinger because i know they are very costly and no better than any of the other H.O. alternators..... some of the other guys may be able to list some manufacutres.... as for the isolator, that is only needed if using more than one battery, and i dont feel that will help any since the amps u are using are quite big.... a single high output alternator should do the trick here, and fix any light dimming problems, if you contact a dealer as what is the biggest possible alt that will fit, and see how much it diffrers from the rest of thier lines, if the price isnt too outrageous id go with the biggest possible, it will not hurt and may lead to upgradability later.....
lessismorespl on 04/15/2006 14:24:30
Remember you will have to compensate for flex on the enclosure due to movement in the frame when you do a cut through....I would try to find another way to make everything fit before going to the extreme of a cut through install. The best way would be to build the enclosure to fit in the trunk and seal the space between the cab and box. Seal off the cut through area for the subs. Basically your subs and enclosure would be in the box, only th opening would for the subs would be in the cab. It can be a very costly install if done professionally.
less
P.S. Forget the caps, they will not make any difference and are basically a waste of money, as Comp said...the battery upgrade and Big 3 will do more.
tuknlugz on 04/15/2006 18:37:16
Thanks guys....Huge help....I'll toss the Cap Idea and start looking for Alt upgrades. I'll keep you posted when I find one that does the JOB!!
LATER AND THANKS AGAIN!!!
Tuknlugz
Ps. I'll try and get some pictures soon and keep in touch.
swez on 04/16/2006 00:11:54
These amps are huge power draw monsters. A 90A ALT is not going to run more than a single amp and 2 subs very well. (Even with an 800 CCA rated Optima)
I assume you are running 2 subs per amp here, each channel sees 2 ohms? (Or bridged, 4 ohms min) That means each amp is capable of drawing well over 100 amperes/ea. What is the recommended fusing for each amp?
I see a major electrical upgrade coming here friend. The truck needs about 40-60A to run the basics alone. With a 90A ALT, that will surley tax this ALT and BAT into meltdown mode. No Cap on the market can make up that deficite either.
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/16/2006 10:05:05
Swez ,
I know I'm going to need power upgrading. As long as it's out there then I'll go for it. I have a $1,000 dollars to spend here, Is that going to be enough? Gee, I would hope so....I knew things was going to be expencive but Oh well....It pays to play. I knew that when I put Hydros on my Ranger...I was always breaking something. But now with the air ride it's much better, Nothing ever breaks. Anyway these amps have (8) 25 Amp fuses in them. Yes I am going to run 2 Subs per amp. And run each Set of Subs at 2 Ohms. So do you have any Ideas on where I can find a Monster Alt?What company is there who has these?
Thanks again!!
Tuknlugz
swez on 04/16/2006 16:58:36
Whoa!!! 25 x 8 = 200A/amp??? Gulp.... this will indeed be a budget buster with that much juice a flowin.
What the Pro SPL guys often do, is run multiple ALTs and a bank of BATs'. The amps have a dedicated electrical system all to their own. This is a major $$$ modification as one needs to fab brackets and pulley's to accomodate 1 or more additional ALTs.
May I ask you to take a serious step back and get a big picture perspective on this plan? The costs associated with such a huge system will easily exceed your $1,000.00 budget.
Would you care to entertain a less-is-more approach here? Like, 1 amp, two subs and perhaps a 300A HO ALT. This will be an 'Ungodly' amount of bass in a small PU truck. Running 2 amps and 4 subs are just way too much expense for such a minimal return in SPL.
As for HO ALTs, Ohio Generator, Stinger and Motorcityreman are generally the best known makers of HO ALTs. Not cheap either.
http://www.ohiogen.com/
http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/alternators.asp
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators-ford-cars---trucks-ranger.html
Motorcity will likely be the cheapest to buy. Go to their link and request a quote for a 200-250A model that fits your engine package.
http://www.motorcityreman.com/contact.html
Swez
lewis on 04/16/2006 19:49:48
I have a $1,000 dollars to spend here, Is that going to be enough?
is this just for the power upgrade?? (could probly be done for that)
tuknlugz on 04/17/2006 08:59:10
Yeah...$1,000 for the power upgrade....all I need now is a Box built....Witch I got $650.00 give er take quoted for that and now...the power upgrade.
Hey Swez, So ya think a 200+ Amp Alt & 3 Batts will do the Trick?
Yellow or red top batts are better? I knew I would end up paying alot here....Thanks for the links, I'll be sure to check them out.
Man you outta see these amps...They are horses!!!! They probably would run a WALL of twelves. Problem is man I want 2 Ohms Not 4.....If I wanted 4 Ohms then One amp would do the trick but 4 & 2 Ohms is a big difference if you ask me ya know..Again, I'll check them links out & get some prices we'll holler at ya...In the mean time wanne see my Ranger they are goin' in....Go here...
http://members.cardomain.com/tuknlugz
swez on 04/17/2006 10:25:48
Wow, some very complex mods in your web site bud. That must have taken a few big coins from the ol piggy bank?
Clarify this... each amp has 8 x 25 A fuses or is that 4 x 25/amp?
As I read this, these amps are actually dual Class D MONO amps in a single casing... yes? Each channel puts out 850 (per channel) watts RMS @ 2 ohms right? The subs are rated at 450 Wrms/each, 4+4 DVC's. As I calculate the numbers here, I see each amp will draw just under 100 amperes of current per amp. So, dual amps need ~200A from the ALT/BAT. Please comfirm this information.
http://www.eclipse-web.com/amp/da7232.html This one right? It would sure be nice is the site had a manual for review.
Now, as for your electrical upgrades, I would suggest using your present ALT to power the car and perhaps a full range amp for mids/highs. What you have now, should be fine here.
As for powering the sub amps, use a dedicated ALT of 200A or a bit higher & 1 or 2 BATs. One small BAT per amplifier or a single Yellow Top Deep Cycle (+800 CCA rating) should get the job done. Using the single BAT, mounted near the amps would be fine.
Enough for now as my head is spinning on this one.
Comments?
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/17/2006 10:47:03
Swez...Your exactly right man....These are basically (2) Amps incased in one amp. There really have been some good things said about these Amps. But yes the damn thigns take a power plant just to turn them on. I know my project sounds silly man and almost a waste of time but back in High School I had the loudest hardest hittin' system....and people loved it man, I LOVED IT! Who don't like bass....I guess what most of my friends liked about me was I like all music! I listen to everything and would get all of my friends music and jam it for them. From Garth Brooks to Anthrax...LOL...it didn't matter to me...I like all music man....and it being in a little ranger with a Cut through was EXTREAM even more...because from the outside there didn't look like there was anything in it ya know...That was the surprise...Ya know....In all the years of music I never once went to a sound off nor had the DB tested? I just always wanted a poundin' system. You asked me to
Clarify this... each amp has 8 x 25 A fuses or is that 4 x 25/amp?
(That is true) Yes (8) 25A Fuses.
You guys have taken alot of time helping me and I thank you...Today sometime I'm going to take some detailed Pics of my stuff laying around here....So you can see I really have this stuff and I'm serious.
I'll be posting the Pics back on car domain.
These Subs are 400W RMS Power Cont. & 800 W Power Intermttn (Pk)
I'll holler at you later ok....
Tuknlugz
tuknlugz on 04/17/2006 11:38:31
Added Some Pictures of my system....Subs & Amps....The head unit is a Alpine IVA-D900 In Dash Dvd ....
The pics I posted are on page there so you all can have a better look at what we are dealing with.
Thanks and talk to ya all later.
Tuknlugz
http://members.cardomain.com/tuknlugz
(Page 3) at the bottom
swez on 04/18/2006 00:24:51
Yikes! That means 2 dedicated ALT's, (200A/ea.) and a Deep Cycle BAT for each.
Get your fabrication buddies in on this one as it will require considerable mods under the hood to pull this one off. Also, I'm not 100% on this one, but you may need to run dual power and ground wires for this install. Just not sure how the stock electricals will handle a common grounding system of this magnitude. It would be best to talk with a few guys that have done this kind of rig. There may be some tricks and tips you'll need to launch this project well.
Swez
swez on 04/18/2006 11:26:06
Have a very large concern on the woofers you have planned for this install. The woofers are rated at 400 watts RMS/ea. Each amp channel is rated at 650 Wrms @ 4 ohms, 850 Wrms @ 2 ohms.
I fear that the first time you crank them up in 2 ohms/channel, the subs will be toast!!! I see 2 options here:
1. Run only one amp, 4 ohms/ch., use all 4 subs and get 325 Wrms per sub. This amp can put out more power too. But the distortion levels will also go up according to gain settings used.
2. Get stronger subs for these beast amps. Something that can take about 1000 Wrms, 4+4 DVC's.
A. http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=W12GTI&cat=SUB&ser=GTI&language=ENG&country=US®ion=USA
B. http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/pages/woofers.html
C. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4061_153020681_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent
D. http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/thunder9500.cfm
E. JL W7 series
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/18/2006 22:40:56
Swez,
Ya know man I hate to admit it, But it takes alot of pride for me to say that I think I bit off more than I can chew?
I really like the Idea you said....I did think of that in the first place.
Run only one amp, 4 ohms/ch., use all 4 subs and get 325 Wrms per sub. This amp can put out more power too. But the distortion levels will also go up according to gain settings used.
I was really nervous that I would not like the 4 Ohm option, That the bass would not sound as good as I wanted it too??
So anyway that's where the 2nd amp came into play, Get another one then I could run the subs at 2 ohms and adjust the levels properly to keep them from smokin'? I think one thing I have to deal with is what I have now. I am almost positive that it would be imposible to trade these subs off? I mean who could I find out there .......Unless Ebay, hell and even then I'd have to take a loss....and on the amps as well ya know.....I wanted the JL Subs really bad...But like I said the dealer here has a Boycott on the area! He's the only one that sells em here and man does he JACK the price up!!! So I decided to go with the Eclipse Subs.
What do you think man...I would trust your opinion more than anybody about now....Your knowledge towers over mine when it comes to troubleshooting certain things.....Do you think I would happy running all (4) Subs at 4 Ohms>>???? Would the Bass still pound like no tomorrow? Or is there a huge diff between 2 and 4 ohms? One thing is for sure, I'd only have to get one 200+ Alternater ya know....I'd really save there anyway.
I do remember having the MTX225 HO on the (3) 15's....That amp I had to keep turned down due to the distortion too. I basically had it set up to where a "No more than here" kinda thing, I set it up to where at max Vol the subs were near peaked out but could hang W/O damage.
Well enough of the old days....I'm a Quality kinda guy, I'd rather do it the write way.
Talk with ya later man....Have to get my kids in bed and we'll talk tomorrow or whenever again.
Thanks again man!!!!! Your help is a blessing!
Tuknlugz
swez on 04/19/2006 08:01:12
Ahhhh, looks like I'm not just preaching to a bunch of empty seats now.
Yes, a single amp and 4 ohms per channel is a very good option for the subs you have now. A dedicated ALT/BAT and wiring kit is still a good option here. If you had to buy a 300A + ALT, that could run upwards of $500.00 But, a "dedicated" AUX power source of 200-225A and a BAT should be more cost effective. Just more fab work is all.
As I see it, a single amp will easily shoot your subs 350 watts RMS with minimal distortion. With subs, a 3-5% distortion factor on peak bass hits, is not a huge issue.
As for the 2nd amp, you know the options on the table.
1. Sell to a buddy
2. Sell off e-bay (with a reserve that you can live with)
3. See if you can return it to where you bought it and get your $$$ back (especially if the amp is NIB)
If you can re-coupe 75% (or more) of the original purchace price on that amp, consider it a reality check, life lesson... "Look, ask and think it over carefully, before you pull the trigger''. Hey, we all do something of this nature at one point in life. Better to get it out of the way now, as the cost of such lessons only get higher as we get older.
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/21/2006 16:40:27
Swez,
What's up there man.? Listen I'm not here to insult your intelligents but I was speaking of you to the guy who's going to be helping me install my amps. The Eclpise DA7232's right....Well he did agree on alot of what you were saying but I'm just getting diff storys and want us to be on the same page ya know. He said that Eclipse over rates their amps by saying a 14.7 will give you even more power than the amp is rated for. This is true, I can buy that. But using a 200Amp ALT and (2) yellow Batts With a BATT Icltr will power these amps just fine at a 2 Ohm load. Then if you want to crank the music up all the time and run the system for hours in then yes, You will need more power under the hood. He said if I underpower these amps I will melt the fuses....If I over power these amps & blow a fuse....I have a short. He said that he has a Meter reader of some sort...( I can't remember what the name of it was) that, That will tell us the exact Watts going to each sub ...Dileing that in will provide the Subs with little Distortion while keeping the Subs happy....Not over or underpowering them. There is a Minimum Spec of power these Amps can get without harming them. We will have to research that but I'm sure as long as the Amps have a constant 12 they will work without harm? They make a special battery that is a MONSTER!!!! I seen this deep cycle in some dudes truck today that he uses and he paid about 500 Dollars a pop for these. He said they do the trick real nice....There is always enough power....Anyway Dude...Please don't take this as me trying to shoot you down....We're just talking that's all and you have done nothing but help me everyday...And I thank you VERY MUCH! We're just finding out for sure ifthese Amps can power up with 200 Amps and a few High end Batts that's all. He said these amps will run just fine not running them at a 14.7 V. Doing that would be pushing these dudes to a Maximum and I don't need that unless like he said I was going to Comps and running the system to a full all the time. Anyway....Holler back ....or if you know the Specs on the Minimum amount of power needed "For Sure" from eclpise.
I don't have AC nor power anything in the Ranger....So basically the ALT would be putting power to the Amps only.....For the most part anyway...I know the truck does need some....But not much..
Here is the shop that's helping me out.
www.killer-customz.com
There are a bunch of great dudes, Who I have knows personally. They all have built their own systems so I trust them pretty much. I don't think they have a bunch of audio Pics....But they turn out some Sweet rides....I know everybody who goes there for the System installs have never complained or come back for problems.
See ya man....We'll talk with ya later
Tuknlugz
swez on 04/21/2006 19:47:59
I am in no way offended by gathering more info from other sites. It's a good idea to look and ask many questions when shooting for high SPL rigs. Many of us at CK are not SPL Compers. I am not an expert at high SPL rigging. That's why I suggest you look for guys who are. No prob dude. I'm admitting my limitations upfront here.
I agree with your friend in more ways than not. If you had a power source that can develop more than 14.0 volts constant, (regardless of load or RPM) and ~300A's ALT, then you might just make out. Just remember, when running multiple BAT's, each BAT needs at least 10A's and ~13.5 volts to charge them. Some of the SPL BAT's use a combination of battery and Capacitors to handle surges. I am assuming that is the BAT design you are mentioning here.
If you do go with 2 amps and just 2 subs as noted before, I fear the subs will just not be up to the power these amps can generate at 2 ohms. The sub specs I see are 450 watts RMS/ea. The peak power they can handle is just that... short burps at high wattage, they can take. Sustained, continous power that is well above 450 RMS/sub nets a fried sub.
Keep gathering info from your buddies that do high SPL packages. Just remember you can power the amps to full capacity, but the subs noted earlier, have finite limits. Exceed those limits and you can expect sub failures.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress OK?
Swez
tuknlugz on 03/14/2007 18:08:10
Swez,
Tuk here.....I been offline for sometime now!
I had to build a new computer, My old one crashed out man!
I lost all of my email address.
Shoot me your email again man so we can stay in touch brother.
Later
Tuknlugz
jamesp on 03/14/2007 20:54:11
Tuk, How did your system work out?? I read the posts and checked the pics and am curious.
Swez left on a Vacation today. he may check in if he has net access.
tuknlugz on 06/21/2007 10:05:23
Hey Jamesp,
Where is Swez?? I still haven't chatted with him in FOREVER!
I lost his Address...
Holler back will ya???
Thanks
Tuknlugz
Ps. I'll try and post new pictures of the system up today or tomm.
Here is my link:
http://members.cardomain.com/tuknlugz
Pss I got all the body work done too, I have the Paint and just need a good painter now??
See ya
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 06/21/2007 11:24:31
Nice work on the Ranger man. My stepdad has a 1994 Ranger, maybe I'll show him the pix and try to talk him into a new project??
That thang is low too, how much clearance do you get when you pop the bags into the up position??
swez on 06/21/2007 12:44:08
Hey Tuk, I was in Florida and it was no vacation...
Am back now and you can shoot me an e-mail @: swezdp@juno.com
I remember some of the things we hashed out, but not sure where things are with you right now. So, when you shoot the e-mail, give me a summary of where things are now and what's next on your plans. I'll give ya my best to help you out here or via private e-mails.
Swez COFFEE
First off I have been a die hard fan of JL Audio forever.
I think it's time to change and wanted to find something alittle different. When I moved back here to Indiana there are few dealers who carry JL, And the ones that do charge you an arm and a leg!!! I did some research and asked around EVERYWHERE, What I need from you guys is your opinion on a choice I made. I have a 1990 Ford Ranger. The subs will be in the bed of the truck so room is not a issue. I bought (4) SW7324 Eclipse Subs (DVP) and was told when I asked that they will run right along with the JL W6's. The Eclipse Subs I bought are awsome looking!!! I will be running a 4 ohm load. Now powering these Subs I thought and decided to go with (2) DA7232 Amps (4,000) Watts each amp! The reason I had to buy 2 of them was because you can't wire all 4 subs to 4 Ohms using one amp, So that's why I bought 2 of them. One amp will run to subs and the other amp, The other 2 and so on. All the subs will be in one box, Sealed. I know these subs have to have seperate chanbers, Two in one chamber & Two in the other. So tell me please.....Will these subs pound like I assume or shall I trade these for some JL's ??? All the subs and amps I have are BRAN NEW, Never hooked up. I have no problem hooking stuff up I just haven't ventured into other subs and need some help on Ideas Please.
Thank you very much!!!
Tuknlugz
Replies (27)
compvr15s on 04/12/2006 22:53:18
you know how much your going to have to spend just to run 4000watts of power on ur electrical upgrades. includes new high output alternator, new battery, new wire to run between the battery and the alt, and grounds???? thats gonna be alot right there.... you should get some good bass but why not trade the subs in for different voice coils so you can run off of 1 amp.... have heard very good things about eclipse subs, same with jl audio, both are top notch manufactures... but there are many other companys out there that will produce more bass for less cost... just have to be willing to test new waters ya know....
lessismorespl on 04/13/2006 10:14:25
Agreed. Eclipse makes decent subs, but they are nothing special compared others in the same price range. Much like JL lines, (W3v2 and up), Eclipse does not make anything special until you get to the Aluminum and Titatium lines. You should research a little more before commiting to one specific brand.
You will definately need power upgrades. They will be rather costly also. Unless of course you like replacing alts every other month. For that many watts, you will need at least 200 amp (90-95 amp on idle).
less
tuknlugz on 04/13/2006 17:30:56
Thanks guys, I did purchace the Aluminum series Subs and knew going in that power upgrades would be needed. I have installed several systems in my past and know that a RED/Yellow top batterie/s will be needed. I did already in the past upgrade my Alt to 90 Amps. All I need now is (2) 1F Caps and wire upgrade, That's about it really, Well I know I'll need a Battery Iceltr too. I'm only going to be putting 500 Watts to each sub RMS so there will be plenty of power left over in case I want to add more later. I just didn't want to over load the amp by makeing it push 4 12's ya know and overheating it.
So anyway what you are saying is that the Aluminum series is good then?? If so that's what I have.....The SW7324 DVP Aluminum Subs.
Thanks Guys....REALLY happy to get some good advice, It helps alot on second opinions!!!
compvr15s on 04/14/2006 06:08:14
another bit of my 2cents lol. i would not waiste the money of the caps, unless you are going for looks. the wire upgrade and battery upgrade will sovle any problems that the cap will help with, if your lights are dimming after you upgrade battery/wires then you need a more powerful alternator. you said you upgraded the alt already, is that at idle or at rated rms. cuz 90 amps at 2000-3000 rpms is not going to supply proper power to those amps... run the risk of damaging ur equipment if you dont poperly feed them the power needed.... also on the subs, its 90% install, 10% equipment, your enclosure here is going to be the key, and the way you vent the bass into your cab through the bed of the truck.... as for the amps, if you are runnin it at a 2omh load it should not overheat or if so it should take a long time, you placing them in the cab or back in the bed somewhere??? if they are in the bed i see no reason they should overheat, lots of room back there to cool off...
really wont be a difference in power draw with 1amp at 2ohms or 2 amps at 4 omhs.... still producing the same power, just tryin to cut expenses, but if you plan for upgrades later then stick with the 2 if you like....just really hope ya can supply the required power. well its a lil past 5am and im a lil drunk so i should prolly pass out, can go on further when i come back to life lol
tuknlugz on 04/14/2006 20:21:46
compvr15s ,
Thanks again man! Your advice sure helps alot. Seems I really need to get it in gear, I have become extreamly rusty in the audio field. Hell when I was high school I was puttin' in systems left and right like nothing. I knew that under powering an amp is just as bad as overpowering ect....But anyway to answer your questions, When I lived in Florida I took the stock ALT from 40 to aprox 90A. All I knew is that they changed the guts in the ALT to put out more....And I was getting about 70+ at an Idle and about 90 when I ran the engine up a lil. I thought for sure I would need to get caps?? Guess not the way you make it sound? That's cool if I don't need them. I have a cut through goin' through the bed and in the past I used 3 15'2 Fosgates and a MTX 225HO to push them, With a red top battery and my ALT upgraded I never had any problem EVER! I ran the subs in Series and bridged down to a 2 Ohm load. It pounded man. Anyway Several years later I now want the same again. I sat in a Full size chevy with (4) 12's and I'll never forget the experience man. Let me give you my specs real quick on the 12's 4+4 Ohms...Voice Coil DCR 4.12+4.12 Ohms,RMS Power continuous is 400W, RMS Power Intermittent (Pk) 800W, (FR) 20-500Hz,...And the magnet lbs on these is 145oz & they are the Aluminum subs DVP. You were talking about Sealed boxes and ported boxes....Now here again my question is I'm not sure what to do here, All I know in the past I never had a ported box, Didn't like the way it sounded to be honest. My old school rule was if the Back of the speaker had a hole going through it you could put the sub in a sealed box, If not then it needed to be in a ported box so the speaker would not get damaged. I always though the bass hit harder in a sealed box....Now with what I have I'll need a battery isolator right, If I don't use the caps and a newer battery right? Or is there a aftermarket ALT I'll need to buy, Like one from Stinger? Anyway yes the Amps will be bolted down in the bed of the truck in the box...so they should remain cool with no problems.....Well man, again that's about it and I'm going to go join the party....Just got off of work and a Cold Beer sounds good about now so I'll sit on it till later....Holler at ya later man....& thanks again!!!!!
Tuknlugz
compvr15s on 04/15/2006 07:12:29
i really have no experience with cut through desings, but id assume that sealed would probably be the best here.... but to make things straight, ported enclousres will tend to be a lil louder around port frequency. but with sealed boxes u will get tighter, cleaner bass..... as for the hole in the mangnet. that does not mean anything when deciding box type. if it has a hole in the magnent it will be cooled easier, if there is no hole then it will get hotter, may need a lil more space between end of magnent and the side of the enclosure but, usuallly if it will fit in a sealed box it will also go in a ported box with about +3db of output around tuning..... yea definitly save your money on the caps and use it towards a battery and alt upgrade. that alternator you had rebuilt still is too weak to power the mentioned amps. id say a 200 amp alternator or better is needed to feed these amps, thats alot of power you are dealing with, there are many online marketers for high ouptut als, i would not go with stinger because i know they are very costly and no better than any of the other H.O. alternators..... some of the other guys may be able to list some manufacutres.... as for the isolator, that is only needed if using more than one battery, and i dont feel that will help any since the amps u are using are quite big.... a single high output alternator should do the trick here, and fix any light dimming problems, if you contact a dealer as what is the biggest possible alt that will fit, and see how much it diffrers from the rest of thier lines, if the price isnt too outrageous id go with the biggest possible, it will not hurt and may lead to upgradability later.....
lessismorespl on 04/15/2006 14:24:30
Remember you will have to compensate for flex on the enclosure due to movement in the frame when you do a cut through....I would try to find another way to make everything fit before going to the extreme of a cut through install. The best way would be to build the enclosure to fit in the trunk and seal the space between the cab and box. Seal off the cut through area for the subs. Basically your subs and enclosure would be in the box, only th opening would for the subs would be in the cab. It can be a very costly install if done professionally.
less
P.S. Forget the caps, they will not make any difference and are basically a waste of money, as Comp said...the battery upgrade and Big 3 will do more.
tuknlugz on 04/15/2006 18:37:16
Thanks guys....Huge help....I'll toss the Cap Idea and start looking for Alt upgrades. I'll keep you posted when I find one that does the JOB!!
LATER AND THANKS AGAIN!!!
Tuknlugz
Ps. I'll try and get some pictures soon and keep in touch.
swez on 04/16/2006 00:11:54
These amps are huge power draw monsters. A 90A ALT is not going to run more than a single amp and 2 subs very well. (Even with an 800 CCA rated Optima)
I assume you are running 2 subs per amp here, each channel sees 2 ohms? (Or bridged, 4 ohms min) That means each amp is capable of drawing well over 100 amperes/ea. What is the recommended fusing for each amp?
I see a major electrical upgrade coming here friend. The truck needs about 40-60A to run the basics alone. With a 90A ALT, that will surley tax this ALT and BAT into meltdown mode. No Cap on the market can make up that deficite either.
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/16/2006 10:05:05
Swez ,
I know I'm going to need power upgrading. As long as it's out there then I'll go for it. I have a $1,000 dollars to spend here, Is that going to be enough? Gee, I would hope so....I knew things was going to be expencive but Oh well....It pays to play. I knew that when I put Hydros on my Ranger...I was always breaking something. But now with the air ride it's much better, Nothing ever breaks. Anyway these amps have (8) 25 Amp fuses in them. Yes I am going to run 2 Subs per amp. And run each Set of Subs at 2 Ohms. So do you have any Ideas on where I can find a Monster Alt?What company is there who has these?
Thanks again!!
Tuknlugz
swez on 04/16/2006 16:58:36
Whoa!!! 25 x 8 = 200A/amp??? Gulp.... this will indeed be a budget buster with that much juice a flowin.
What the Pro SPL guys often do, is run multiple ALTs and a bank of BATs'. The amps have a dedicated electrical system all to their own. This is a major $$$ modification as one needs to fab brackets and pulley's to accomodate 1 or more additional ALTs.
May I ask you to take a serious step back and get a big picture perspective on this plan? The costs associated with such a huge system will easily exceed your $1,000.00 budget.
Would you care to entertain a less-is-more approach here? Like, 1 amp, two subs and perhaps a 300A HO ALT. This will be an 'Ungodly' amount of bass in a small PU truck. Running 2 amps and 4 subs are just way too much expense for such a minimal return in SPL.
As for HO ALTs, Ohio Generator, Stinger and Motorcityreman are generally the best known makers of HO ALTs. Not cheap either.
http://www.ohiogen.com/
http://www.stingerelectronics.com/web/prods/alternators.asp
http://www.motorcityreman.com/high-amp-alternators-ford-cars---trucks-ranger.html
Motorcity will likely be the cheapest to buy. Go to their link and request a quote for a 200-250A model that fits your engine package.
http://www.motorcityreman.com/contact.html
Swez
lewis on 04/16/2006 19:49:48
I have a $1,000 dollars to spend here, Is that going to be enough?
is this just for the power upgrade?? (could probly be done for that)
tuknlugz on 04/17/2006 08:59:10
Yeah...$1,000 for the power upgrade....all I need now is a Box built....Witch I got $650.00 give er take quoted for that and now...the power upgrade.
Hey Swez, So ya think a 200+ Amp Alt & 3 Batts will do the Trick?
Yellow or red top batts are better? I knew I would end up paying alot here....Thanks for the links, I'll be sure to check them out.
Man you outta see these amps...They are horses!!!! They probably would run a WALL of twelves. Problem is man I want 2 Ohms Not 4.....If I wanted 4 Ohms then One amp would do the trick but 4 & 2 Ohms is a big difference if you ask me ya know..Again, I'll check them links out & get some prices we'll holler at ya...In the mean time wanne see my Ranger they are goin' in....Go here...
http://members.cardomain.com/tuknlugz
swez on 04/17/2006 10:25:48
Wow, some very complex mods in your web site bud. That must have taken a few big coins from the ol piggy bank?
Clarify this... each amp has 8 x 25 A fuses or is that 4 x 25/amp?
As I read this, these amps are actually dual Class D MONO amps in a single casing... yes? Each channel puts out 850 (per channel) watts RMS @ 2 ohms right? The subs are rated at 450 Wrms/each, 4+4 DVC's. As I calculate the numbers here, I see each amp will draw just under 100 amperes of current per amp. So, dual amps need ~200A from the ALT/BAT. Please comfirm this information.
http://www.eclipse-web.com/amp/da7232.html This one right? It would sure be nice is the site had a manual for review.
Now, as for your electrical upgrades, I would suggest using your present ALT to power the car and perhaps a full range amp for mids/highs. What you have now, should be fine here.
As for powering the sub amps, use a dedicated ALT of 200A or a bit higher & 1 or 2 BATs. One small BAT per amplifier or a single Yellow Top Deep Cycle (+800 CCA rating) should get the job done. Using the single BAT, mounted near the amps would be fine.
Enough for now as my head is spinning on this one.
Comments?
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/17/2006 10:47:03
Swez...Your exactly right man....These are basically (2) Amps incased in one amp. There really have been some good things said about these Amps. But yes the damn thigns take a power plant just to turn them on. I know my project sounds silly man and almost a waste of time but back in High School I had the loudest hardest hittin' system....and people loved it man, I LOVED IT! Who don't like bass....I guess what most of my friends liked about me was I like all music! I listen to everything and would get all of my friends music and jam it for them. From Garth Brooks to Anthrax...LOL...it didn't matter to me...I like all music man....and it being in a little ranger with a Cut through was EXTREAM even more...because from the outside there didn't look like there was anything in it ya know...That was the surprise...Ya know....In all the years of music I never once went to a sound off nor had the DB tested? I just always wanted a poundin' system. You asked me to
Clarify this... each amp has 8 x 25 A fuses or is that 4 x 25/amp?
(That is true) Yes (8) 25A Fuses.
You guys have taken alot of time helping me and I thank you...Today sometime I'm going to take some detailed Pics of my stuff laying around here....So you can see I really have this stuff and I'm serious.
I'll be posting the Pics back on car domain.
These Subs are 400W RMS Power Cont. & 800 W Power Intermttn (Pk)
I'll holler at you later ok....
Tuknlugz
tuknlugz on 04/17/2006 11:38:31
Added Some Pictures of my system....Subs & Amps....The head unit is a Alpine IVA-D900 In Dash Dvd ....
The pics I posted are on page there so you all can have a better look at what we are dealing with.
Thanks and talk to ya all later.
Tuknlugz
http://members.cardomain.com/tuknlugz
(Page 3) at the bottom
swez on 04/18/2006 00:24:51
Yikes! That means 2 dedicated ALT's, (200A/ea.) and a Deep Cycle BAT for each.
Get your fabrication buddies in on this one as it will require considerable mods under the hood to pull this one off. Also, I'm not 100% on this one, but you may need to run dual power and ground wires for this install. Just not sure how the stock electricals will handle a common grounding system of this magnitude. It would be best to talk with a few guys that have done this kind of rig. There may be some tricks and tips you'll need to launch this project well.
Swez
swez on 04/18/2006 11:26:06
Have a very large concern on the woofers you have planned for this install. The woofers are rated at 400 watts RMS/ea. Each amp channel is rated at 650 Wrms @ 4 ohms, 850 Wrms @ 2 ohms.
I fear that the first time you crank them up in 2 ohms/channel, the subs will be toast!!! I see 2 options here:
1. Run only one amp, 4 ohms/ch., use all 4 subs and get 325 Wrms per sub. This amp can put out more power too. But the distortion levels will also go up according to gain settings used.
2. Get stronger subs for these beast amps. Something that can take about 1000 Wrms, 4+4 DVC's.
A. http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=W12GTI&cat=SUB&ser=GTI&language=ENG&country=US®ion=USA
B. http://www.audiobahn.com/Audiobahn06/pages/woofers.html
C. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4061_153020681_tab=B,00.html?compName=PNA_ProductDetailComponent
D. http://www.mtx.com/caraudio/products/subwoofers/thunder9500.cfm
E. JL W7 series
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/18/2006 22:40:56
Swez,
Ya know man I hate to admit it, But it takes alot of pride for me to say that I think I bit off more than I can chew?
I really like the Idea you said....I did think of that in the first place.
Run only one amp, 4 ohms/ch., use all 4 subs and get 325 Wrms per sub. This amp can put out more power too. But the distortion levels will also go up according to gain settings used.
I was really nervous that I would not like the 4 Ohm option, That the bass would not sound as good as I wanted it too??
So anyway that's where the 2nd amp came into play, Get another one then I could run the subs at 2 ohms and adjust the levels properly to keep them from smokin'? I think one thing I have to deal with is what I have now. I am almost positive that it would be imposible to trade these subs off? I mean who could I find out there .......Unless Ebay, hell and even then I'd have to take a loss....and on the amps as well ya know.....I wanted the JL Subs really bad...But like I said the dealer here has a Boycott on the area! He's the only one that sells em here and man does he JACK the price up!!! So I decided to go with the Eclipse Subs.
What do you think man...I would trust your opinion more than anybody about now....Your knowledge towers over mine when it comes to troubleshooting certain things.....Do you think I would happy running all (4) Subs at 4 Ohms>>???? Would the Bass still pound like no tomorrow? Or is there a huge diff between 2 and 4 ohms? One thing is for sure, I'd only have to get one 200+ Alternater ya know....I'd really save there anyway.
I do remember having the MTX225 HO on the (3) 15's....That amp I had to keep turned down due to the distortion too. I basically had it set up to where a "No more than here" kinda thing, I set it up to where at max Vol the subs were near peaked out but could hang W/O damage.
Well enough of the old days....I'm a Quality kinda guy, I'd rather do it the write way.
Talk with ya later man....Have to get my kids in bed and we'll talk tomorrow or whenever again.
Thanks again man!!!!! Your help is a blessing!
Tuknlugz
swez on 04/19/2006 08:01:12
Ahhhh, looks like I'm not just preaching to a bunch of empty seats now.
Yes, a single amp and 4 ohms per channel is a very good option for the subs you have now. A dedicated ALT/BAT and wiring kit is still a good option here. If you had to buy a 300A + ALT, that could run upwards of $500.00 But, a "dedicated" AUX power source of 200-225A and a BAT should be more cost effective. Just more fab work is all.
As I see it, a single amp will easily shoot your subs 350 watts RMS with minimal distortion. With subs, a 3-5% distortion factor on peak bass hits, is not a huge issue.
As for the 2nd amp, you know the options on the table.
1. Sell to a buddy
2. Sell off e-bay (with a reserve that you can live with)
3. See if you can return it to where you bought it and get your $$$ back (especially if the amp is NIB)
If you can re-coupe 75% (or more) of the original purchace price on that amp, consider it a reality check, life lesson... "Look, ask and think it over carefully, before you pull the trigger''. Hey, we all do something of this nature at one point in life. Better to get it out of the way now, as the cost of such lessons only get higher as we get older.
Swez
tuknlugz on 04/21/2006 16:40:27
Swez,
What's up there man.? Listen I'm not here to insult your intelligents but I was speaking of you to the guy who's going to be helping me install my amps. The Eclpise DA7232's right....Well he did agree on alot of what you were saying but I'm just getting diff storys and want us to be on the same page ya know. He said that Eclipse over rates their amps by saying a 14.7 will give you even more power than the amp is rated for. This is true, I can buy that. But using a 200Amp ALT and (2) yellow Batts With a BATT Icltr will power these amps just fine at a 2 Ohm load. Then if you want to crank the music up all the time and run the system for hours in then yes, You will need more power under the hood. He said if I underpower these amps I will melt the fuses....If I over power these amps & blow a fuse....I have a short. He said that he has a Meter reader of some sort...( I can't remember what the name of it was) that, That will tell us the exact Watts going to each sub ...Dileing that in will provide the Subs with little Distortion while keeping the Subs happy....Not over or underpowering them. There is a Minimum Spec of power these Amps can get without harming them. We will have to research that but I'm sure as long as the Amps have a constant 12 they will work without harm? They make a special battery that is a MONSTER!!!! I seen this deep cycle in some dudes truck today that he uses and he paid about 500 Dollars a pop for these. He said they do the trick real nice....There is always enough power....Anyway Dude...Please don't take this as me trying to shoot you down....We're just talking that's all and you have done nothing but help me everyday...And I thank you VERY MUCH! We're just finding out for sure ifthese Amps can power up with 200 Amps and a few High end Batts that's all. He said these amps will run just fine not running them at a 14.7 V. Doing that would be pushing these dudes to a Maximum and I don't need that unless like he said I was going to Comps and running the system to a full all the time. Anyway....Holler back ....or if you know the Specs on the Minimum amount of power needed "For Sure" from eclpise.
I don't have AC nor power anything in the Ranger....So basically the ALT would be putting power to the Amps only.....For the most part anyway...I know the truck does need some....But not much..
Here is the shop that's helping me out.
www.killer-customz.com
There are a bunch of great dudes, Who I have knows personally. They all have built their own systems so I trust them pretty much. I don't think they have a bunch of audio Pics....But they turn out some Sweet rides....I know everybody who goes there for the System installs have never complained or come back for problems.
See ya man....We'll talk with ya later
Tuknlugz
swez on 04/21/2006 19:47:59
I am in no way offended by gathering more info from other sites. It's a good idea to look and ask many questions when shooting for high SPL rigs. Many of us at CK are not SPL Compers. I am not an expert at high SPL rigging. That's why I suggest you look for guys who are. No prob dude. I'm admitting my limitations upfront here.
I agree with your friend in more ways than not. If you had a power source that can develop more than 14.0 volts constant, (regardless of load or RPM) and ~300A's ALT, then you might just make out. Just remember, when running multiple BAT's, each BAT needs at least 10A's and ~13.5 volts to charge them. Some of the SPL BAT's use a combination of battery and Capacitors to handle surges. I am assuming that is the BAT design you are mentioning here.
If you do go with 2 amps and just 2 subs as noted before, I fear the subs will just not be up to the power these amps can generate at 2 ohms. The sub specs I see are 450 watts RMS/ea. The peak power they can handle is just that... short burps at high wattage, they can take. Sustained, continous power that is well above 450 RMS/sub nets a fried sub.
Keep gathering info from your buddies that do high SPL packages. Just remember you can power the amps to full capacity, but the subs noted earlier, have finite limits. Exceed those limits and you can expect sub failures.
Good luck and keep us posted on your progress OK?
Swez
tuknlugz on 03/14/2007 18:08:10
Swez,
Tuk here.....I been offline for sometime now!
I had to build a new computer, My old one crashed out man!
I lost all of my email address.
Shoot me your email again man so we can stay in touch brother.
Later
Tuknlugz
jamesp on 03/14/2007 20:54:11
Tuk, How did your system work out?? I read the posts and checked the pics and am curious.
Swez left on a Vacation today. he may check in if he has net access.
tuknlugz on 06/21/2007 10:05:23
Hey Jamesp,
Where is Swez?? I still haven't chatted with him in FOREVER!
I lost his Address...
Holler back will ya???
Thanks
Tuknlugz
Ps. I'll try and post new pictures of the system up today or tomm.
Here is my link:
http://members.cardomain.com/tuknlugz
Pss I got all the body work done too, I have the Paint and just need a good painter now??
See ya
ShootuhMcBustaCap on 06/21/2007 11:24:31
Nice work on the Ranger man. My stepdad has a 1994 Ranger, maybe I'll show him the pix and try to talk him into a new project??
That thang is low too, how much clearance do you get when you pop the bags into the up position??
swez on 06/21/2007 12:44:08
Hey Tuk, I was in Florida and it was no vacation...
Am back now and you can shoot me an e-mail @: swezdp@juno.com
I remember some of the things we hashed out, but not sure where things are with you right now. So, when you shoot the e-mail, give me a summary of where things are now and what's next on your plans. I'll give ya my best to help you out here or via private e-mails.
Swez COFFEE
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