Hello all, first time on the board.
After reading many hours and looking over other sites of this nature, this one is by far and away the most comprehensive. Let me offer my congratulations on a job well done. My only covet is that I had not found this place sooner.
At present, I'm having concerns pertaining to implementing a stealth type box, and subwoofer under the rear seat in my new '05, Ford F-150, Super Cab. My biggest concern being, there is not much room under the rear seat, (51/2 inch) leaving me with very few options. Or, perhaps options that I'm not aware of at this time. Obviously, the right combination of said is paramount to resonance. One option that I am aware of is, utilizing a seat lift for more room, thus being able to use a longer depth mount sub. Yet in limbo because of the expense of the lift at $140.00 and not fully understanding sub specs-- if a seat lift is necessary.
I'm an avid listener of the rock and metal genre's--liking tight, clean sounding bass that hits fairly hard--just short of neighbors displeasure. When that kick drums hits, I want to know it, type bass. I do not know if that is achievable with what I have to work with in this truck. The Stealth box would be the only option I would not give up in considerations. I've been broken into just enough to warrant this on my part, and well, my new truck is now my baby.
Another option would be, a double woofer stealth box. If one would think this would be a better choice, I'll have to succeed to that, with lack of knowledge in reference.
I don't have any gear at present. I'm just now starting to delve into this. Again the subwoofer being the biggest issue of concern.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears.
Replies (30)
swez on 04/9/2006 22:43:15
Your in the right place and asking good questions. Welcome to CK!
The main start point here, how much bass do you really want for this install? Know a bit more about that, we can look at a number of stealth and traditional sub options. A few questions will help us to guide you.
1. How large a sub system do you desire? (300, 600 or 1000 watts RMS)
2. Are you willing to lift the rear seats a few inches to accomodate a larger sub enclosure?
3. Q-Logic and MTX both make pre-fab, custom fit enclosures for this vehicle. They are not cheap, but offer good, modest bass in a package that looks OEM and very much stealth. Depends on your budget constraints and power of your bass engine.
Have a look here for ideas on custom fit enclosures from MTX:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-y2uj1WUPhRY/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?g=530&avf=Y (Enclosure and sub)
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1615180/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046 (Box only)
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/fp/page/1/tcat/27982/sfv/30046/SFV/30046 (Ford/Lincoln Only)
Same more please,
Swez
compvr15s on 04/10/2006 07:52:13
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=15&pid=32&tab=Specs&cur=USD
may want to look at these lil bugers, they should not exceed your space limitations, and if ya read the testimonials for them people are giving excellent feedback.... 2-3 of these and 400-600 watts should definitly increase ur lowend freqs.... dont expect the output from lets say a decent 15 but i bet it would compare to a solid 10 inch woofer or maybe even a 12.....
lewis on 04/10/2006 08:32:40
jl audio has their stealth box for this application too it has a 10w3v2 (300watts) in a ported enclosure that fits under the rear seat. its probly pretty expensive because its jl but its something to look into.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox_detail.php?fit_id=1514
Ash on 04/10/2006 10:08:55
Funny you should mention this as I myself have a install coming up for my girl's mom in her 2000 F150 Supercab.
However you need to know that the majority (if not all) of prefab boxes for this truck are down-firing (sub is facing towards the floor with a few inches of clearance). There is a far cheaper way out that is quite simple if you are capable of working with some power tools and taking accurate measurements. From the looks of the other designs, the most airspace available plus wood is around .78cft, which is good for most single 10" setups.
The main problem that exists is subwoofer mounting depth will not be able to exceed much in order to fit the available space.
Here are some links to give you some ideas:
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=slv1-&p=sub+box+for+f150+supercab&u=www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D333817&w=sub+box+f150+supercab&d=Bmz6ChbfMg9H&icp=1&.intl=us
http://www.ford-trucks.com/lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.supercrewsound.com%2Fshop%2Fdetail%2F11%2F48.htm
Not that you have to use any of these designs, just don't limit your imagination to what you can do. With the right setup, it will perform just as good at a fraction of the ridiculous cost of most prefabs.
swez on 04/10/2006 12:04:04
http://home.comcast.net/~mrmsudawgs/Truckaudio.html
This guy did a very nice install with a Polk MOMO sub and a custom fab enclosure. Very well designed and even at 300 watts RMS, we can easily overpower a stock or aftermarket HU amping system for mids/highs.
BTW, the difference in SPL between 300 and 600 watts is a very modest +3 dB. In a truck cabin, you can anticipate a solid +120 dB of SPL @ 300 watts. We pick a free "cabin gain effect" of about +10dB at sub woofer frequencies. In short, this is concert level SPL, in a very small listening space.
Consider the JBL 1004, (4+4) DVC 10" sub. It has a depth max of
4-3/16". This shoud just make the height space you have to work with. You can go sealed or ported is desired. A ported box nets +3dB more bass, near the port tuning frequency. This is a high efficiency sub, dual coil and JBL rates the RMS power at 250 Wrms.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO1004D&cat=SUB&ser=GTS&language=ENG&country=US®ion=USA
Box specs: http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/GTO%201004D%20Enclosure.pdf
Couple that sub with the GTO CS300.1 sub amp, you have a nice match.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLCS3001 ($150.00)
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLGTO1004D ($ 90.00)
This will not break the bank and if you can build a custom enclosure s shown earlier, figure ~$65.00 for materials. (Use 1/2"-5/8" thick MDF)
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 04/10/2006 12:50:12
http://earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/CAR/PDF/SWS%20manual.pdf
http://www.proboxrocks.com/ford/index.shtml
Hope it helps,,,
Victor..
P.S, : I had made this post before too, did someone delete it.???
Blue_Oval on 04/10/2006 13:51:24
Thank you all for the expert help. I can not express enough how great this site is. I have gotten more ideas and help in the past 12 hours than I could possibly have ever dreamed of getting.
>>> Consider the JBL 1004, (4+4) DVC 10" sub. It has a depth max of
4-3/16". This should just make the height space you have to work with. You can go sealed or ported is desired. A ported box nets +3dB more bass, near the port tuning frequency. This is a high efficiency sub, dual coil and JBL rates the RMS power at 250 Wrms. <<<
This is what I didn't [and] needed to know Swez. Thank you very much for those specs.
Now, so we're on the same page Swez, I can in fact expect the same SPL rating you've given to me above out of this JBL setup you recommend? If so, this would be what I'm trying to accomplish. I know there will ALWAYS be something better, but I need to draw a the line in the sand. I'm getting real weary on the research trail. And I see no problem making my own box enclosure. However, I'm interested in sonic differences between using 1/2 inch MDF VS. 5/8 inch. Seems with the space constraints the 1/2 inch may be a better option?
Thanks to all for the overwhelming responses. You guys make things so much better to be part of the audio hobby. Hopefully one day I can contribute as well.
ttocs on 04/10/2006 14:17:27
Welcome aboard.
Last week one of my days at the shop they were doing an install on a crew-cab f-250. we were able to squeeze a 4 channel and a 250/1 behind the rear seat. Under the seat they built a box for 4 8" JL's. The bottom was fiberglass and it looked good, sounded great! If you like kick drums in rock, go for a good 8, the more the merrier....
swez on 04/10/2006 17:42:25
Yes, we seem to be tracking along well at the moment. However, there are other options as has been suggested by many other talents here.
As for the amp/SPL issues, in this application, you'll probably note more low end bass response with this 12" sub, over a 10. Either will work, just a larger enclosure. However, we'd need to look at the shallow mounting depth of other 12's to get this to fit right. I suggested 1/2" MDF here, so you get adequate clearance, but not sacrifice performance. A few well placed brace panels/boards will keep the enclosure from excessive flexing and loss of SQL performance.
If you wish to really up the ante, a pair of solid 8" woofers can also do a fine job. There are several out there that are both shallow enough to mount, yet can take 150 watt RMS/sub. The trick is finding subs that can go low, have high efficiency ratings and take adequate power too. Here, a pair of 4 ohm SVC coils are fine.
Anyway you slice it, we have a large tool box to help you along. Try not to over-think the process here. We can give you plenty of good options to chew on, but this tends to just confuse and elongate the project.
Do you have H, W & D measurments for beneath both rear seats? If yes, pass them along as it will help figure out the best route and layout for this custom fit box.
Swez
Blue_Oval on 04/11/2006 01:30:06
In a word WOW! Four subs? I can not comprehend that. And here I am having issues over figuring out one? I can only dream, as If I would entertain a thought like that? My wife would surely have me living, IN the truck.
My frustrations lie on the fact, I have no idea what is considered adequate bass, not being able to listen to what one sub sounds like, let alone, four of them. If I can achieve 120 (subwoofer) decibels inside the cab with just one sub, I would tend to think this would be quite adequate. How efficient is probably another issue. One other frustration that raises my hack. I have an audiophile home theater setup. Putting that HT together pales in comparison to figuring out this, no room, truck cab. I thought from the very beginning, a truck? Humpffff...... piece a cake.
Brief history, and more than likely where I'm going very wrong on the comparison scale. I had at one time an Infinity Bass Link in a Dodge truck. Now the Bass Link rated at 250wrms with a ten inch driver and passive radiator, this Bass Link was simply horrific at producing bass, and nothing at all like I wanted or hoped to get out of a sub. I mention this, as this, is, the only thing I've ever had to compare too. Now when I read (and please don't take this as an insult) an 8 to 10 inch sub that will only handle 150wrms, you can see where my skeptisisms start to creep in. Couple that with the lack of depth between the seat and floor in this truck, and I become even more cynical. So please, tell me I'm all wrong about this sound comparison so I can move on, and forget about this Bass Link weight hanging over my head.
Blue_Oval on 04/11/2006 02:21:20
>>> If you wish to really up the ante, a pair of solid 8" woofers can also do a fine job. There are several out there that are both shallow enough to mount, yet can take 150 watt RMS/sub. The trick is finding subs that can go low, have high efficiency ratings and take adequate power too. Here, a pair of 4 ohm SVC coils are fine. <<<
I can do a pair of 8's, no problem Swez. Whatever you guys think is best. I'm totally clueless at this point. Glad I'm here.
>>> As for the amp/SPL issues, in this application, you'll probably note more low end bass response with this 12" sub, over a 10. Either will work, just a larger enclosure. However, we'd need to look at the shallow mounting depth of other 12's to get this to fit right. <<<
Not a problem here either. However, I must admit, it's becoming a tad bit more confusing. I wasn't aware a 12" would fit. I need to measure obviously, but at this time my tape measuring eyes seem to think a 12" is going to "stick out" into where the passengers legs would hang down from the seat. There is a bit of a slanted, 45 degree, upward rise, that makes a 2-3" ledge in the floor, below the cabs rear window, that runs the whole width of the cab. I'm assuming the box would have to stop where the rise and ledge would start. I was figuring in, this bit of a ledge being a good place to tuck the wiring and cables.
swez on 04/11/2006 11:54:15
I see your point of reference and being an audiophile to a given degree, it will be a bit more challenging to please you. But, we'll try our best.
As I showed in a previous link, this guy managed a 12" woofer in the same truck you mentioned. (F-150 Super Cab) If he did it, it can be repeated. The main thing here, is the shallow depth the woofer has to fit within. This limits our sub choices a bit, but there are shallow drivers out there to meet this need. Several have offered links to some very good options.
I think we have settled the amp choice issues for now, but depending on the sub choice used, may have to bump up to different amp. Let's look at sub options a bit.
1. A single 12" sub
Earthquake SWS seems like an excellent choice here. Look at the enclosure specs for sealed and horn loaded designs in this PDF file. I would shoot for similar W & D numbers and go 5.5 - 6.0" height:
http://earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/CAR/PDF/SWS%20manual.pdf
2. A single 10" sub
Again, Earthquake seems to have a very nice solution to shallow mount installs. Same idea here... "H max" of 6.0", W & D as recommended
To get the most from either of these subs, the JL 250/1 amp makes a lot of sense. It's rated at 250 watts RMS, but it can do more (300 Wrms) with about 1.0% THD distortion. Not a bad choice at all.
3. Dual 8's
Here, a pair of JL 8W3v2's (2+2 DVC's) or the Earthquake SWS series 8's, seems like an excellent choice as well. Each JL driver is 4.31" height. The recommended sealed size is 0.33 cf/driver. Again, the JL 250/1 or the JBL CS 300.1 will do the job well.
JL Audio: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_pages.php?page_id=134
Earthquake: http://earthquakesound.com/SWS04.htm
If you wish to read a critique on the SWS series subs, Tom Nousaine
has a very good write up on the 10" version he tested. Tom is well known in the biz and has been at this stuff for a long time. He's a bit "puffed up", but with his credentials, I guess he has won that right.
http://www.roadgearmag.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=597&page_number=1
Where to next Howie? SMILE Comments please..
Swez
Blue_Oval on 04/11/2006 11:57:53
Hey now, this Pro Box looks very interesting, and is black, which would match my trucks interior. In the reviews I read nothing negative about Pro Box. Matter of fact, one of the reviewers mentioned putting a 10" sub in the Pro Box, gave the sonic impression of a 12" sub, not being able to tell a difference. Built rugged, with a Rhino type outer shell coating. And honestly, the more I think about it, I'm just not wanting to take the time to build my own box. I'd rather have plug and play. ;-) Yes, the cost is more, but I'm really not on a subwoofer budget constraint other than with something normal in the one possibly two sub constraint money issue.
Can anybody tell me more about Pro Box? The Pro Box web-site is rather obscure in info.
Thank you.
swez on 04/11/2006 12:50:39
That Pro Box may be a very good option and a lot less hassle too. Why not contact them and ask about suggested woofers that they know to work well with this enclosure. Here's a link to ask some questions and determine how to get what you need and pricing:
http://www.proboxrocks.com/contactus.shtml
Swez
Ash on 04/11/2006 18:36:17
Since mounting depth is the issue for me, I have narrowed my search of viable woofers down to shallow mounting ones. My problem is that I'm working with a older couple that likes mostly blues, r&b and some "young folks music" at times.
In this case low frequency output is more important than SPL. Getting the smaller subs to go lower in somewhat bigger boxes is much easier than a larger one in close to the same airspace. Sticking to eights with a F3 around 50hz (ported or sealed) can solve both mounting depth and lower Q constraints for me.
Likewise you have to be real in setting a target for your own musical tastes as well as loudness.
Blue_Oval on 04/12/2006 01:38:48
Well, I've e-mailed Pro Box asking for a price quote, airspace specs, and their recommend for drivers. Looking at their web-site I notice most of their stealth boxes are rated @ 0.60 cubic feet. And most of them also seem to be, "up firing", with the driver pointing toward the back of the cab. Which is good, considering standing waves. And the driver is placed more toward the corner of the cab, which is another plus VS. straight in the middle of the rear seat. Seems a little more thought process went into the design of this box.
I've read many articles written by Tom (insane) Nousaine. Most notably, his 2 story plenum sub. Ironic, he doesn't live far from my local. Matter of fact, Tom is the one that put me onto my 18" ULD Velodyne I'm currently using in my HT setup. Now there is a driver for ya. The nominal impedance of the driver is 2.5 Ohms, its free air resonant frequency is 18 Hz, and the weight of the magnet assembly is 20 pounds. When I first tested the behemoth, I thought a dump truck had ran into the back of my house--shook everything. A truck cab? Piece of cake. HA! I've never been so lost. Used to the big stuff I guess. :-)
I'll post what I learn from Pro Box as soon as I hear from them.
Until then.
Blue_Oval on 04/12/2006 11:50:53
Good day to all.
As promised, here below is what the sales person at Pro Box sent to me this A.M..
"Well, the JL and Kicker does well. However, we are building our own subs that match the enclosures better than other brands. We have a special suspension on the subs that has been designed for the "Loaded" ported versions."
"We have recessed the sub in the loaded enclosures and machined a grill to match. The grill helps stop muffling when seat is in down position."
Cost...
04FS110L-300....(300 watt rms probox sub).........$275.00 including shipping
04FS110L-500....(500 watt rms probox sub).........$350.00 including shipping
Not bad from what I've read. And one reason I say this is, Pro Box is charging $200.00 for the unloaded version.
Being this is relatively hassle free, I'm pretty much sold not only on the former, but the design aspects and the rugged aesthetics of this box, that should last for years.
Questions still remain for ported or sealed and a 300Wrms driver VS. the 500Wrms. My line of thinking at this stage would be the 500Wrms in the sealed enclosure if I can have it made that way as I see no mention--only ported.
Once again a reminder of the type of music I listen too would be the rock and metal genres with intent of attaining clean, concert level decibels when pushed.
Looking forward, adding mid-bass fill in the rear door speakers I understand could/should add more resonance to the sub and cab. Something I've overlooked to this point.
Thoughts please......
swez on 04/12/2006 12:14:06
Not a bad response at all. If you want more low bass, go ported as porting delivers a +3dB boost near the port tuning frequency. It would be good to know the woofer specs they use and the port tuning frequency as well.
If you want the 500 watt driver and amp cost is not a problem for you, consider the JL 500/1. A very solid amp with all the features a quality install demands. Very reliable, excellent regulated power supply and to many, it's pretty much the "Gold Standard" for car Audio.
Midbass, indeed you will want to address front stage Comps and rear stage Comps, Coaxials or just a MB driver. These should be amped as well. Figure 75 -100 watts RMS x 4 channels here. We can address speakers when you are ready for that stage too.
Swez
Blue_Oval on 04/12/2006 12:44:30
Thanks Swez, I really enjoy your knowledgeable, straight approach.
From what I know and what I've learned here with all the great responses from everyone, this has made my (sub bass) experience most enjoyable, which I realize, should be. How did we survive without such communication levels during the dark ages? Once again, my sincere thanks and gratitude to all involved.
Moving on Mr. Swez, I will e-mail Pro Box once again and ask them to give me the specs on the woofer and PTF. What should I be looking for in hindsite?
swez on 04/12/2006 17:54:35
I would hope the PTF target is pretty close to 40 Hz., or a bit lower.
I would also expect the sub to sound best when the rear seat is in the up position and the woofer can take a deep breath. With the seat down, it will muffle the bass performace an bit and give that passenger one nice tush massage. hehe Heck, you may like sitting in that seat from time to time too. It will give new meaning to the old term... "Rumble Seat".
Finally, this looks pretty much like the bass engine system is complete. Good solutions have been found for amp, sub and enclosure. With this much bass power in your truck, the mid/highs will be buried in bass if only powered off the HU, unless this truck has a JBL amping system in same. You may want to buy the remote bass controller that matches the JL 500/1. This will allow you to dial up/down the bass from the cockpit as needed.
When you are ready to discuss that option, we'll go through the process with you there too.
Swez
PS Care to donate to our site? Our services are free to all users, but we rely on donations to keep the site going. (Server time, hardware/software upgrades and expanded programming tasks from the site owner, Walt Hargrave)
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 01:14:59
Funny, I thought the same thing Swez..."Rumble seat" indeed. Begs the question. How many know what that is on here. ;-)
Grating as this thought will be for most, I would like to keep the factory HU. This stock system sounds fairly decent with component speakers--tweeter, mid range--located in the front door panels--rear speakers are hideous. Surprisingly, these speakers are located further north in the front doors than what for me is considered the norm--usually at floor level. However, these factory speakers will be part of the accumulation process once I get this subwoofer installed. For another time, as you suggest.
>>> PS Care to donate to our site?
Yes sir Swez, I would indeed be more than willing to donate to the site. Consider it done my friend. I finally noticed the make a donation link eailer today. With me, JUST NOW, noticing. Gee.... Swez....would you think the phrase, paralyzation from annalyzation is fitting in this instance?
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 02:56:11
Swez,
I read a bit more on the 12" custom fab link you provide. I read that is, until I noted the truck in question was a 2000 model year Ford. There is/was quite a bit more room, particularly under the seat in that model year cab design. Now the 2004 model on up, is a bigger cabin. However, Ford for whatever reasons, chose to enlarge the Super Cab "up front" specs/ Something had to give. It's painfully aware to me now where exactly the give came into play.
I didn't want you to think I brushed the 12" idea off. I've looked at and thought through every concept posted in this thread, rather thoroughly. This Pro Box design seems to click best with this trucks measured resonance. Conclusion: 2 subs SQ would be working against each other, more so in a ported or slot ported design--not enough room to support. Maybe and only maybe if there was a way to point two drivers toward the rear of the truck away from the listener. Front firing: no way with two drivers. It would sound terrible. Believe it or not, the four driver concept would be a better choice at any angle-- tighter or more compacted and balanced standing wave lengths. Then deafness. What?
Thanks Swez.
admin on 04/13/2006 07:54:48
BANNER1
The sponsorship is greatly appreciated!
swez on 04/13/2006 10:23:37
"Swez....would you think the phrase, paralyzation from annalyzation is fitting in this instance?"
Yes, it happens all the time to THINKERS and problem solvers. It's very easy to get "too much information" and many divergent options/opinions on a forum or visiting many stores. The KISS methodology is often the best path. "Less is more", often is the best way to go. SMILE
OK, Factory HU it shall be for now. Here's a link to JL's recommended way of using Factory systems and integrating a 500/1 into same.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/SYS_5.pdf
If this truck is similar in wiring locations for the rear speakers, you should be able to find the LR/RR speaker lines on the Passenger side under the carpet/trim rail. Just splice your wiring pigtails with RCA's on the amp input side and go from there.
Since the wire run is very short and has a high signal voltage, speaker wires usually work fine here. If engine/electrical noise becomes an issue, then consider using RCA type coaxial cables.
Also, the 500/1 has an "auto sense" turn on feature. This means no need for a REMote turn on lead from the HU is required. As speakers get power, the amp sense that voltage and turns on automatically. Neat feature huh?
In this install, one sub is probably the best SQL option. As for loading and direction of fire, It would be great if the driver were angled back toward the rear cabin wall. However, this may be very difficult to achieve.
The up-firing sub for a truck, is often the desired method. This allows the most air space from the cone to roof of the vehicle. This provides more space for the bass waves to propagate w/o reflections and cancellations. For best SQL listening, raise the "Rumble Seat" to the stowage position. Then, you can enjoy the full potential of this enclosure design and power of the bass engine.
About the custom box design that fellow made for his 2000 truck, good catch on dimensional changes. I was not aware of the changes made in 2004 and newer models. Nuff said!
Swez
PS Thanks for the prompt donation. This site costs about $50.00/mo. to operate. We went down for a time due to lack of operating funds. That really pained a lot of avid readers.
I don't enjoy asking for donations. But, it seems that too many readers ask for a lot of help, spend all their cash on gear and forget to support the site they got so much help from. So, it's one of those "Ask and we shall receive" scenarios. Someone has to bring the message home, so I volunteered to be the site "Pitch Man". It's the least I can do, but if we lose funding, the site is in jeopardy. Thanks again! CLAP
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 16:36:25
Thank you for the link on the sub amp set up Swez. Pretty simple by the looks of it.
I finally acquired a phone number to Pro Box and talked with Gerald, the CEO, and I might add, very proud owner of Pro Box. The outcome was fantastic. Pro Box is making a custom built enclosure specifically designed for my truck at no additional cost. Gerald and I when at far as discussing resonance with the windows down, doors open, one door open, etc, a very thorough job spec. The box itself (44-.46Hz PTF) will obviously be ported and loaded with the 500Wrms driver. He also relaxed my concerns operating the sub with the seat down. He guaranteed this would pose no problems in reference to the new grill application. If it did pose a SQ problem, I was to return it for a full refund. They will start building the box this weekend and should be ready to ship early next week.
One other FYI about the build quality of the Pro Box Line. Pro Box uses " high density fiber board" HDF. rather than the medium density fiber board, MDF.
Coincidently Swez, Gerald also recommended the JL 500/1 for this application. How bout that? I did not make one inference to an amp. Gerald practically insisted upon that I purchase the 500/1.
Very, very, nice gentlemen to do business with. I realize he didn't have to take the time he did with the likes of me, but he did so, and that made me feel very good about what I'm trying to accomplish.
People........Go with Pro Box if you want it done the right way. Highly recommended.
PS Thanks for the prompt donation.
No problem Swez. Very small price to pay for this type of knowledge. Now wheres my icon? LOL.....
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 16:40:09
swez on 04/13/2006 18:40:22
We are working on icons for site contributors now. When Walt has them ready, he will launch same. We are toying with a Gold star or thumbs up icons. Coming soon, to a forum near you!
Swez
ttocs on 04/13/2006 18:52:27
glad to hear it will work out. There are good people and bad people to deal with in this business, I have never really found it too hard to spot who is who. Sounds like this guy in one of the few(unfortunatly) that knows what they are talking about and like to take care of the customer. I would love to start inviting profeesionals like that to this forum as they are identified. These people are normally passionate about the hobby and enjoy helping others, really really good people to know as they always know people that can get you most anything at a good price. My current boss is one of those as well, although he seems ENTIRELY too busy to be able to spend the time.
We need some kind of "golden bling" to designate the people that donate.
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 19:42:55
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 20:01:42
Yes indeed. Gerald, the owner of Pro Box, is as you describe ttocs. He elaborated a bit on his history and how he got into the business. Being a world champion he started in car audio when sub woofers weren't even a thought. There is no B.S. about this guy, none, what so ever. Very confident, yet laid back tone of voice, and knew what I was going to ask before I did so. In that, I'm very comfortable in the choices I made. Gerald would definitely be an added bonus to the board, but not unlike your boss he has an operation that is running seven days a week. Career passions also, I presume.
After reading many hours and looking over other sites of this nature, this one is by far and away the most comprehensive. Let me offer my congratulations on a job well done. My only covet is that I had not found this place sooner.
At present, I'm having concerns pertaining to implementing a stealth type box, and subwoofer under the rear seat in my new '05, Ford F-150, Super Cab. My biggest concern being, there is not much room under the rear seat, (51/2 inch) leaving me with very few options. Or, perhaps options that I'm not aware of at this time. Obviously, the right combination of said is paramount to resonance. One option that I am aware of is, utilizing a seat lift for more room, thus being able to use a longer depth mount sub. Yet in limbo because of the expense of the lift at $140.00 and not fully understanding sub specs-- if a seat lift is necessary.
I'm an avid listener of the rock and metal genre's--liking tight, clean sounding bass that hits fairly hard--just short of neighbors displeasure. When that kick drums hits, I want to know it, type bass. I do not know if that is achievable with what I have to work with in this truck. The Stealth box would be the only option I would not give up in considerations. I've been broken into just enough to warrant this on my part, and well, my new truck is now my baby.
Another option would be, a double woofer stealth box. If one would think this would be a better choice, I'll have to succeed to that, with lack of knowledge in reference.
I don't have any gear at present. I'm just now starting to delve into this. Again the subwoofer being the biggest issue of concern.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. I'm all ears.
Replies (30)
swez on 04/9/2006 22:43:15
Your in the right place and asking good questions. Welcome to CK!
The main start point here, how much bass do you really want for this install? Know a bit more about that, we can look at a number of stealth and traditional sub options. A few questions will help us to guide you.
1. How large a sub system do you desire? (300, 600 or 1000 watts RMS)
2. Are you willing to lift the rear seats a few inches to accomodate a larger sub enclosure?
3. Q-Logic and MTX both make pre-fab, custom fit enclosures for this vehicle. They are not cheap, but offer good, modest bass in a package that looks OEM and very much stealth. Depends on your budget constraints and power of your bass engine.
Have a look here for ideas on custom fit enclosures from MTX:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-y2uj1WUPhRY/cgi-bin/ProdGroup.asp?g=530&avf=Y (Enclosure and sub)
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/Product/fp/vpid/1615180/vpcsid/0/SFV/30046 (Box only)
http://www.hifisoundconnection.com/Shop/Control/fp/page/1/tcat/27982/sfv/30046/SFV/30046 (Ford/Lincoln Only)
Same more please,
Swez
compvr15s on 04/10/2006 07:52:13
http://edesignaudio.com/product.php?cid=15&pid=32&tab=Specs&cur=USD
may want to look at these lil bugers, they should not exceed your space limitations, and if ya read the testimonials for them people are giving excellent feedback.... 2-3 of these and 400-600 watts should definitly increase ur lowend freqs.... dont expect the output from lets say a decent 15 but i bet it would compare to a solid 10 inch woofer or maybe even a 12.....
lewis on 04/10/2006 08:32:40
jl audio has their stealth box for this application too it has a 10w3v2 (300watts) in a ported enclosure that fits under the rear seat. its probly pretty expensive because its jl but its something to look into.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_stealthbox_detail.php?fit_id=1514
Ash on 04/10/2006 10:08:55
Funny you should mention this as I myself have a install coming up for my girl's mom in her 2000 F150 Supercab.
However you need to know that the majority (if not all) of prefab boxes for this truck are down-firing (sub is facing towards the floor with a few inches of clearance). There is a far cheaper way out that is quite simple if you are capable of working with some power tools and taking accurate measurements. From the looks of the other designs, the most airspace available plus wood is around .78cft, which is good for most single 10" setups.
The main problem that exists is subwoofer mounting depth will not be able to exceed much in order to fit the available space.
Here are some links to give you some ideas:
http://216.109.125.130/search/cache?ei=UTF-8&fr=slv1-&p=sub+box+for+f150+supercab&u=www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php%3Fp%3D333817&w=sub+box+f150+supercab&d=Bmz6ChbfMg9H&icp=1&.intl=us
http://www.ford-trucks.com/lc/lc.php?action=do&link=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.supercrewsound.com%2Fshop%2Fdetail%2F11%2F48.htm
Not that you have to use any of these designs, just don't limit your imagination to what you can do. With the right setup, it will perform just as good at a fraction of the ridiculous cost of most prefabs.
swez on 04/10/2006 12:04:04
http://home.comcast.net/~mrmsudawgs/Truckaudio.html
This guy did a very nice install with a Polk MOMO sub and a custom fab enclosure. Very well designed and even at 300 watts RMS, we can easily overpower a stock or aftermarket HU amping system for mids/highs.
BTW, the difference in SPL between 300 and 600 watts is a very modest +3 dB. In a truck cabin, you can anticipate a solid +120 dB of SPL @ 300 watts. We pick a free "cabin gain effect" of about +10dB at sub woofer frequencies. In short, this is concert level SPL, in a very small listening space.
Consider the JBL 1004, (4+4) DVC 10" sub. It has a depth max of
4-3/16". This shoud just make the height space you have to work with. You can go sealed or ported is desired. A ported box nets +3dB more bass, near the port tuning frequency. This is a high efficiency sub, dual coil and JBL rates the RMS power at 250 Wrms.
http://www.jbl.com/car/products/product_detail.aspx?prod=GTO1004D&cat=SUB&ser=GTS&language=ENG&country=US®ion=USA
Box specs: http://manuals.harman.com/JBL/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/GTO%201004D%20Enclosure.pdf
Couple that sub with the GTO CS300.1 sub amp, you have a nice match.
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLCS3001 ($150.00)
http://www.cardomain.com/item/JBLGTO1004D ($ 90.00)
This will not break the bank and if you can build a custom enclosure s shown earlier, figure ~$65.00 for materials. (Use 1/2"-5/8" thick MDF)
Comments?
Swez
Victor on 04/10/2006 12:50:12
http://earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/CAR/PDF/SWS%20manual.pdf
http://www.proboxrocks.com/ford/index.shtml
Hope it helps,,,
Victor..
P.S, : I had made this post before too, did someone delete it.???
Blue_Oval on 04/10/2006 13:51:24
Thank you all for the expert help. I can not express enough how great this site is. I have gotten more ideas and help in the past 12 hours than I could possibly have ever dreamed of getting.
>>> Consider the JBL 1004, (4+4) DVC 10" sub. It has a depth max of
4-3/16". This should just make the height space you have to work with. You can go sealed or ported is desired. A ported box nets +3dB more bass, near the port tuning frequency. This is a high efficiency sub, dual coil and JBL rates the RMS power at 250 Wrms. <<<
This is what I didn't [and] needed to know Swez. Thank you very much for those specs.
Now, so we're on the same page Swez, I can in fact expect the same SPL rating you've given to me above out of this JBL setup you recommend? If so, this would be what I'm trying to accomplish. I know there will ALWAYS be something better, but I need to draw a the line in the sand. I'm getting real weary on the research trail. And I see no problem making my own box enclosure. However, I'm interested in sonic differences between using 1/2 inch MDF VS. 5/8 inch. Seems with the space constraints the 1/2 inch may be a better option?
Thanks to all for the overwhelming responses. You guys make things so much better to be part of the audio hobby. Hopefully one day I can contribute as well.
ttocs on 04/10/2006 14:17:27
Welcome aboard.
Last week one of my days at the shop they were doing an install on a crew-cab f-250. we were able to squeeze a 4 channel and a 250/1 behind the rear seat. Under the seat they built a box for 4 8" JL's. The bottom was fiberglass and it looked good, sounded great! If you like kick drums in rock, go for a good 8, the more the merrier....
swez on 04/10/2006 17:42:25
Yes, we seem to be tracking along well at the moment. However, there are other options as has been suggested by many other talents here.
As for the amp/SPL issues, in this application, you'll probably note more low end bass response with this 12" sub, over a 10. Either will work, just a larger enclosure. However, we'd need to look at the shallow mounting depth of other 12's to get this to fit right. I suggested 1/2" MDF here, so you get adequate clearance, but not sacrifice performance. A few well placed brace panels/boards will keep the enclosure from excessive flexing and loss of SQL performance.
If you wish to really up the ante, a pair of solid 8" woofers can also do a fine job. There are several out there that are both shallow enough to mount, yet can take 150 watt RMS/sub. The trick is finding subs that can go low, have high efficiency ratings and take adequate power too. Here, a pair of 4 ohm SVC coils are fine.
Anyway you slice it, we have a large tool box to help you along. Try not to over-think the process here. We can give you plenty of good options to chew on, but this tends to just confuse and elongate the project.
Do you have H, W & D measurments for beneath both rear seats? If yes, pass them along as it will help figure out the best route and layout for this custom fit box.
Swez
Blue_Oval on 04/11/2006 01:30:06
In a word WOW! Four subs? I can not comprehend that. And here I am having issues over figuring out one? I can only dream, as If I would entertain a thought like that? My wife would surely have me living, IN the truck.
My frustrations lie on the fact, I have no idea what is considered adequate bass, not being able to listen to what one sub sounds like, let alone, four of them. If I can achieve 120 (subwoofer) decibels inside the cab with just one sub, I would tend to think this would be quite adequate. How efficient is probably another issue. One other frustration that raises my hack. I have an audiophile home theater setup. Putting that HT together pales in comparison to figuring out this, no room, truck cab. I thought from the very beginning, a truck? Humpffff...... piece a cake.
Brief history, and more than likely where I'm going very wrong on the comparison scale. I had at one time an Infinity Bass Link in a Dodge truck. Now the Bass Link rated at 250wrms with a ten inch driver and passive radiator, this Bass Link was simply horrific at producing bass, and nothing at all like I wanted or hoped to get out of a sub. I mention this, as this, is, the only thing I've ever had to compare too. Now when I read (and please don't take this as an insult) an 8 to 10 inch sub that will only handle 150wrms, you can see where my skeptisisms start to creep in. Couple that with the lack of depth between the seat and floor in this truck, and I become even more cynical. So please, tell me I'm all wrong about this sound comparison so I can move on, and forget about this Bass Link weight hanging over my head.
Blue_Oval on 04/11/2006 02:21:20
>>> If you wish to really up the ante, a pair of solid 8" woofers can also do a fine job. There are several out there that are both shallow enough to mount, yet can take 150 watt RMS/sub. The trick is finding subs that can go low, have high efficiency ratings and take adequate power too. Here, a pair of 4 ohm SVC coils are fine. <<<
I can do a pair of 8's, no problem Swez. Whatever you guys think is best. I'm totally clueless at this point. Glad I'm here.
>>> As for the amp/SPL issues, in this application, you'll probably note more low end bass response with this 12" sub, over a 10. Either will work, just a larger enclosure. However, we'd need to look at the shallow mounting depth of other 12's to get this to fit right. <<<
Not a problem here either. However, I must admit, it's becoming a tad bit more confusing. I wasn't aware a 12" would fit. I need to measure obviously, but at this time my tape measuring eyes seem to think a 12" is going to "stick out" into where the passengers legs would hang down from the seat. There is a bit of a slanted, 45 degree, upward rise, that makes a 2-3" ledge in the floor, below the cabs rear window, that runs the whole width of the cab. I'm assuming the box would have to stop where the rise and ledge would start. I was figuring in, this bit of a ledge being a good place to tuck the wiring and cables.
swez on 04/11/2006 11:54:15
I see your point of reference and being an audiophile to a given degree, it will be a bit more challenging to please you. But, we'll try our best.
As I showed in a previous link, this guy managed a 12" woofer in the same truck you mentioned. (F-150 Super Cab) If he did it, it can be repeated. The main thing here, is the shallow depth the woofer has to fit within. This limits our sub choices a bit, but there are shallow drivers out there to meet this need. Several have offered links to some very good options.
I think we have settled the amp choice issues for now, but depending on the sub choice used, may have to bump up to different amp. Let's look at sub options a bit.
1. A single 12" sub
Earthquake SWS seems like an excellent choice here. Look at the enclosure specs for sealed and horn loaded designs in this PDF file. I would shoot for similar W & D numbers and go 5.5 - 6.0" height:
http://earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/CAR/PDF/SWS%20manual.pdf
2. A single 10" sub
Again, Earthquake seems to have a very nice solution to shallow mount installs. Same idea here... "H max" of 6.0", W & D as recommended
To get the most from either of these subs, the JL 250/1 amp makes a lot of sense. It's rated at 250 watts RMS, but it can do more (300 Wrms) with about 1.0% THD distortion. Not a bad choice at all.
3. Dual 8's
Here, a pair of JL 8W3v2's (2+2 DVC's) or the Earthquake SWS series 8's, seems like an excellent choice as well. Each JL driver is 4.31" height. The recommended sealed size is 0.33 cf/driver. Again, the JL 250/1 or the JBL CS 300.1 will do the job well.
JL Audio: http://mobile.jlaudio.com/products_pages.php?page_id=134
Earthquake: http://earthquakesound.com/SWS04.htm
If you wish to read a critique on the SWS series subs, Tom Nousaine
has a very good write up on the 10" version he tested. Tom is well known in the biz and has been at this stuff for a long time. He's a bit "puffed up", but with his credentials, I guess he has won that right.
http://www.roadgearmag.com/article.asp?section_id=13&article_id=597&page_number=1
Where to next Howie? SMILE Comments please..
Swez
Blue_Oval on 04/11/2006 11:57:53
Hey now, this Pro Box looks very interesting, and is black, which would match my trucks interior. In the reviews I read nothing negative about Pro Box. Matter of fact, one of the reviewers mentioned putting a 10" sub in the Pro Box, gave the sonic impression of a 12" sub, not being able to tell a difference. Built rugged, with a Rhino type outer shell coating. And honestly, the more I think about it, I'm just not wanting to take the time to build my own box. I'd rather have plug and play. ;-) Yes, the cost is more, but I'm really not on a subwoofer budget constraint other than with something normal in the one possibly two sub constraint money issue.
Can anybody tell me more about Pro Box? The Pro Box web-site is rather obscure in info.
Thank you.
swez on 04/11/2006 12:50:39
That Pro Box may be a very good option and a lot less hassle too. Why not contact them and ask about suggested woofers that they know to work well with this enclosure. Here's a link to ask some questions and determine how to get what you need and pricing:
http://www.proboxrocks.com/contactus.shtml
Swez
Ash on 04/11/2006 18:36:17
Since mounting depth is the issue for me, I have narrowed my search of viable woofers down to shallow mounting ones. My problem is that I'm working with a older couple that likes mostly blues, r&b and some "young folks music" at times.
In this case low frequency output is more important than SPL. Getting the smaller subs to go lower in somewhat bigger boxes is much easier than a larger one in close to the same airspace. Sticking to eights with a F3 around 50hz (ported or sealed) can solve both mounting depth and lower Q constraints for me.
Likewise you have to be real in setting a target for your own musical tastes as well as loudness.
Blue_Oval on 04/12/2006 01:38:48
Well, I've e-mailed Pro Box asking for a price quote, airspace specs, and their recommend for drivers. Looking at their web-site I notice most of their stealth boxes are rated @ 0.60 cubic feet. And most of them also seem to be, "up firing", with the driver pointing toward the back of the cab. Which is good, considering standing waves. And the driver is placed more toward the corner of the cab, which is another plus VS. straight in the middle of the rear seat. Seems a little more thought process went into the design of this box.
I've read many articles written by Tom (insane) Nousaine. Most notably, his 2 story plenum sub. Ironic, he doesn't live far from my local. Matter of fact, Tom is the one that put me onto my 18" ULD Velodyne I'm currently using in my HT setup. Now there is a driver for ya. The nominal impedance of the driver is 2.5 Ohms, its free air resonant frequency is 18 Hz, and the weight of the magnet assembly is 20 pounds. When I first tested the behemoth, I thought a dump truck had ran into the back of my house--shook everything. A truck cab? Piece of cake. HA! I've never been so lost. Used to the big stuff I guess. :-)
I'll post what I learn from Pro Box as soon as I hear from them.
Until then.
Blue_Oval on 04/12/2006 11:50:53
Good day to all.
As promised, here below is what the sales person at Pro Box sent to me this A.M..
"Well, the JL and Kicker does well. However, we are building our own subs that match the enclosures better than other brands. We have a special suspension on the subs that has been designed for the "Loaded" ported versions."
"We have recessed the sub in the loaded enclosures and machined a grill to match. The grill helps stop muffling when seat is in down position."
Cost...
04FS110L-300....(300 watt rms probox sub).........$275.00 including shipping
04FS110L-500....(500 watt rms probox sub).........$350.00 including shipping
Not bad from what I've read. And one reason I say this is, Pro Box is charging $200.00 for the unloaded version.
Being this is relatively hassle free, I'm pretty much sold not only on the former, but the design aspects and the rugged aesthetics of this box, that should last for years.
Questions still remain for ported or sealed and a 300Wrms driver VS. the 500Wrms. My line of thinking at this stage would be the 500Wrms in the sealed enclosure if I can have it made that way as I see no mention--only ported.
Once again a reminder of the type of music I listen too would be the rock and metal genres with intent of attaining clean, concert level decibels when pushed.
Looking forward, adding mid-bass fill in the rear door speakers I understand could/should add more resonance to the sub and cab. Something I've overlooked to this point.
Thoughts please......
swez on 04/12/2006 12:14:06
Not a bad response at all. If you want more low bass, go ported as porting delivers a +3dB boost near the port tuning frequency. It would be good to know the woofer specs they use and the port tuning frequency as well.
If you want the 500 watt driver and amp cost is not a problem for you, consider the JL 500/1. A very solid amp with all the features a quality install demands. Very reliable, excellent regulated power supply and to many, it's pretty much the "Gold Standard" for car Audio.
Midbass, indeed you will want to address front stage Comps and rear stage Comps, Coaxials or just a MB driver. These should be amped as well. Figure 75 -100 watts RMS x 4 channels here. We can address speakers when you are ready for that stage too.
Swez
Blue_Oval on 04/12/2006 12:44:30
Thanks Swez, I really enjoy your knowledgeable, straight approach.
From what I know and what I've learned here with all the great responses from everyone, this has made my (sub bass) experience most enjoyable, which I realize, should be. How did we survive without such communication levels during the dark ages? Once again, my sincere thanks and gratitude to all involved.
Moving on Mr. Swez, I will e-mail Pro Box once again and ask them to give me the specs on the woofer and PTF. What should I be looking for in hindsite?
swez on 04/12/2006 17:54:35
I would hope the PTF target is pretty close to 40 Hz., or a bit lower.
I would also expect the sub to sound best when the rear seat is in the up position and the woofer can take a deep breath. With the seat down, it will muffle the bass performace an bit and give that passenger one nice tush massage. hehe Heck, you may like sitting in that seat from time to time too. It will give new meaning to the old term... "Rumble Seat".
Finally, this looks pretty much like the bass engine system is complete. Good solutions have been found for amp, sub and enclosure. With this much bass power in your truck, the mid/highs will be buried in bass if only powered off the HU, unless this truck has a JBL amping system in same. You may want to buy the remote bass controller that matches the JL 500/1. This will allow you to dial up/down the bass from the cockpit as needed.
When you are ready to discuss that option, we'll go through the process with you there too.
Swez
PS Care to donate to our site? Our services are free to all users, but we rely on donations to keep the site going. (Server time, hardware/software upgrades and expanded programming tasks from the site owner, Walt Hargrave)
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 01:14:59
Funny, I thought the same thing Swez..."Rumble seat" indeed. Begs the question. How many know what that is on here. ;-)
Grating as this thought will be for most, I would like to keep the factory HU. This stock system sounds fairly decent with component speakers--tweeter, mid range--located in the front door panels--rear speakers are hideous. Surprisingly, these speakers are located further north in the front doors than what for me is considered the norm--usually at floor level. However, these factory speakers will be part of the accumulation process once I get this subwoofer installed. For another time, as you suggest.
>>> PS Care to donate to our site?
Yes sir Swez, I would indeed be more than willing to donate to the site. Consider it done my friend. I finally noticed the make a donation link eailer today. With me, JUST NOW, noticing. Gee.... Swez....would you think the phrase, paralyzation from annalyzation is fitting in this instance?
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 02:56:11
Swez,
I read a bit more on the 12" custom fab link you provide. I read that is, until I noted the truck in question was a 2000 model year Ford. There is/was quite a bit more room, particularly under the seat in that model year cab design. Now the 2004 model on up, is a bigger cabin. However, Ford for whatever reasons, chose to enlarge the Super Cab "up front" specs/ Something had to give. It's painfully aware to me now where exactly the give came into play.
I didn't want you to think I brushed the 12" idea off. I've looked at and thought through every concept posted in this thread, rather thoroughly. This Pro Box design seems to click best with this trucks measured resonance. Conclusion: 2 subs SQ would be working against each other, more so in a ported or slot ported design--not enough room to support. Maybe and only maybe if there was a way to point two drivers toward the rear of the truck away from the listener. Front firing: no way with two drivers. It would sound terrible. Believe it or not, the four driver concept would be a better choice at any angle-- tighter or more compacted and balanced standing wave lengths. Then deafness. What?
Thanks Swez.
admin on 04/13/2006 07:54:48
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swez on 04/13/2006 10:23:37
"Swez....would you think the phrase, paralyzation from annalyzation is fitting in this instance?"
Yes, it happens all the time to THINKERS and problem solvers. It's very easy to get "too much information" and many divergent options/opinions on a forum or visiting many stores. The KISS methodology is often the best path. "Less is more", often is the best way to go. SMILE
OK, Factory HU it shall be for now. Here's a link to JL's recommended way of using Factory systems and integrating a 500/1 into same.
http://mobile.jlaudio.com/pdfs/SYS_5.pdf
If this truck is similar in wiring locations for the rear speakers, you should be able to find the LR/RR speaker lines on the Passenger side under the carpet/trim rail. Just splice your wiring pigtails with RCA's on the amp input side and go from there.
Since the wire run is very short and has a high signal voltage, speaker wires usually work fine here. If engine/electrical noise becomes an issue, then consider using RCA type coaxial cables.
Also, the 500/1 has an "auto sense" turn on feature. This means no need for a REMote turn on lead from the HU is required. As speakers get power, the amp sense that voltage and turns on automatically. Neat feature huh?
In this install, one sub is probably the best SQL option. As for loading and direction of fire, It would be great if the driver were angled back toward the rear cabin wall. However, this may be very difficult to achieve.
The up-firing sub for a truck, is often the desired method. This allows the most air space from the cone to roof of the vehicle. This provides more space for the bass waves to propagate w/o reflections and cancellations. For best SQL listening, raise the "Rumble Seat" to the stowage position. Then, you can enjoy the full potential of this enclosure design and power of the bass engine.
About the custom box design that fellow made for his 2000 truck, good catch on dimensional changes. I was not aware of the changes made in 2004 and newer models. Nuff said!
Swez
PS Thanks for the prompt donation. This site costs about $50.00/mo. to operate. We went down for a time due to lack of operating funds. That really pained a lot of avid readers.
I don't enjoy asking for donations. But, it seems that too many readers ask for a lot of help, spend all their cash on gear and forget to support the site they got so much help from. So, it's one of those "Ask and we shall receive" scenarios. Someone has to bring the message home, so I volunteered to be the site "Pitch Man". It's the least I can do, but if we lose funding, the site is in jeopardy. Thanks again! CLAP
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 16:36:25
Thank you for the link on the sub amp set up Swez. Pretty simple by the looks of it.
I finally acquired a phone number to Pro Box and talked with Gerald, the CEO, and I might add, very proud owner of Pro Box. The outcome was fantastic. Pro Box is making a custom built enclosure specifically designed for my truck at no additional cost. Gerald and I when at far as discussing resonance with the windows down, doors open, one door open, etc, a very thorough job spec. The box itself (44-.46Hz PTF) will obviously be ported and loaded with the 500Wrms driver. He also relaxed my concerns operating the sub with the seat down. He guaranteed this would pose no problems in reference to the new grill application. If it did pose a SQ problem, I was to return it for a full refund. They will start building the box this weekend and should be ready to ship early next week.
One other FYI about the build quality of the Pro Box Line. Pro Box uses " high density fiber board" HDF. rather than the medium density fiber board, MDF.
Coincidently Swez, Gerald also recommended the JL 500/1 for this application. How bout that? I did not make one inference to an amp. Gerald practically insisted upon that I purchase the 500/1.
Very, very, nice gentlemen to do business with. I realize he didn't have to take the time he did with the likes of me, but he did so, and that made me feel very good about what I'm trying to accomplish.
People........Go with Pro Box if you want it done the right way. Highly recommended.
PS Thanks for the prompt donation.
No problem Swez. Very small price to pay for this type of knowledge. Now wheres my icon? LOL.....
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 16:40:09
swez on 04/13/2006 18:40:22
We are working on icons for site contributors now. When Walt has them ready, he will launch same. We are toying with a Gold star or thumbs up icons. Coming soon, to a forum near you!
Swez
ttocs on 04/13/2006 18:52:27
glad to hear it will work out. There are good people and bad people to deal with in this business, I have never really found it too hard to spot who is who. Sounds like this guy in one of the few(unfortunatly) that knows what they are talking about and like to take care of the customer. I would love to start inviting profeesionals like that to this forum as they are identified. These people are normally passionate about the hobby and enjoy helping others, really really good people to know as they always know people that can get you most anything at a good price. My current boss is one of those as well, although he seems ENTIRELY too busy to be able to spend the time.
We need some kind of "golden bling" to designate the people that donate.
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 19:42:55
Blue_Oval on 04/13/2006 20:01:42
Yes indeed. Gerald, the owner of Pro Box, is as you describe ttocs. He elaborated a bit on his history and how he got into the business. Being a world champion he started in car audio when sub woofers weren't even a thought. There is no B.S. about this guy, none, what so ever. Very confident, yet laid back tone of voice, and knew what I was going to ask before I did so. In that, I'm very comfortable in the choices I made. Gerald would definitely be an added bonus to the board, but not unlike your boss he has an operation that is running seven days a week. Career passions also, I presume.
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