Hey guys it's been a while since i've posted here. You guys have helped me with a lot of problems in the past so i figured i'd try you again for this new one i'm having since you've been more than great in the past :)
Just recently my door speakers have started cutting out. At first it was like once every 10 minutes for short periods of time but now i can't even really get them to come back on unless i hit a bump really hard.
The strange thing is, my subs stay on the entire time. You can hear the bass of the song, the stream of music through the subs is constant and never cuts out, but the door speakers cut in and out for short periods of time randomly (doesn't have to be when i hit a bump it does it when i am in park too).
The Deck never loses power or anything and all of its functions still work. All the door speakers cut out at once, not just 1. The subs never cut out.
I'm thinking that it could be a wiring problem with the Deck, not with the speakers themselves since i think if it was a problem with the wires going to the speakers only 1 would cut out. I'm thinking the subs never cut out because they are attached w/ RC cables and not wired to the harness of the Deck. Could there be a problem with my harness? My power antenna still works and that runs through the harness so i was thinking the harness is fine.
I'm going to take the deck out and jiggle some wires and removed some electrical tape to see if anything came unsodered hopefully today. If you've heard of this problem b4 or know what could possibly be causing this, your help would be greatly appreciated. It's very frusterating to have constant bass and the words to the songs cutting in and out _
JVC Chamellion Deck
2 Polk Audio db525 door speakers
2 15" Solo-Barix subs
1 Audiobahn A2150HCT amp
Thanks again
Replies (35)
swez on 03/29/2006 18:20:37
Yes, it does sound like the speaker wiring harness may be part of the problem.
Also, periodic wiring shorts can cause this too. This is especially possible when speaker wires are simply wrapped and taped together and not secure with crimp connectors or soldering the joints and sleeving them with shrink tubing.
The other possible cause, is pinched speaker wiring that is starting to fail. This is common when wires are just run through the door jambs, but not protected by the flex duct between door and jamb or good insulating/grommets between sharp metal holes that may have been used.
Check those items first. If that does not correct the problem, come back with more info.
Swez
Beau640 on 03/29/2006 18:36:50
Wondering if i should replace the entire harness or not...but before i do
I took everything apart and jiggled it all and it did nothing. took off all the electrical tape and everything is fine. nothing is loose or pinched and the soder is still fresh on the wires. (not old looking or worn). the speakers are no longer cutting in or out but instead are just completely dead it seems. it's not just one it's both at the exact same time. i can't get them to come back on anymore either. wondering if the harness is completely dead or not, but if the harness was dead, wouldn't you see some other problems since so many other parts to the Deck run through the harness?
thanks
swez on 03/29/2006 18:41:57
The next test, involves sending signals through the wires to see if the speakers are getting any juice. A small battery pack is a good source of DC voltage to activate the speakers and make them click, pop or hum. If you get these sounds, the wires and speakers are probably OK.
If there is no sound at all, connections at the speaker, a bad crossover or blown speakers are possible.
The last test involves connecting a known good speaker to the HU wiring harness. If you get audio, the HU amps are working. If not, the HU amps are damaged.
Swez
Beau640 on 03/29/2006 19:22:46
I am 100% sure these speakers are fine so i'm thinking the HU amps could be damage...is there anyway i can bypass this to make sure? can i hook up a small amp to the HU w/ my door speakers on it and see if i get Audio instead of using the amp inside the HU?
The HU amps being damaged would make sense because my Subs that are running on a amp right now are working fine...
Beau640 on 03/29/2006 19:39:07
Well i just put my stuff back together for the day and i'll work on it more tomorrow. after i screwed my HU back in, the speakers kicked in randomly for like 10 seconds then cut out again. I'm thinkin it is the amp inside the HU that is about to go. Is it expensive to replace the harness cause i'd do that first b4 i bought a whole new HU. and if it is the amp inside the HU, is there a test i can do to be absolutely sure that is the problem and can you replace the amp inside the HU or do you have to buy a whole new one
thanks
swez on 03/29/2006 19:58:49
You can still use the HU here, but the internal amps may be on their way out. If this HU has multiple RCA outs, you can feed the front Polks off amplified signals.
Fixing an older HU is usually not worth the cost of repairs and down time. If you have 4 or more years on this one, it's time.
Swez
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 00:27:26
Well i know it has at least 2 years cause that is how long i've had the car for and it was already installed in the car when i bought it. they don't even make or sell these models of JVC anymore so i'm thinkin it's time.
Should i even try swapping out the harness before i buy a completely new HU? or is it not worth it? heh i donno where i would even buy a new harness--are they all universal so i can buy them at any car audio store?
I'm going to try to find someone that has an old HU that they arn't using so i can hook it up real quick and make sure that is what i need. Wouldn't want to buy a new HU and find out that wasn't the problem.
ttocs on 03/30/2006 00:29:31
did the jeep have an Infinity system in it? If so it could be the factory amp cutting out. If could also be a speaker shorting out. Most decks will shut th e amp off completly when one speaker shorts to keep it from letting all the smoke out. You can also try opening and moving the doors to see if you can get it them to cut off. An ohm meter would be great here if you have one.
swez on 03/30/2006 07:15:15
Good point ttocs... if there is a factory amp in this system and it is connected to the HU speaker outs, then to factory amps, if amps feed outputs to speakers, if the amp is losing power for some reason, you will lose speaker outputs.
A multimeter would indeed help as a diagnotic tool here. For $20.00, you can get a nice, full featured digital meter from Radio Shack. With the meter, you can test HU amp voltages, speaker ohmic ratings and trace AC or DC voltages along the various stages of your system.
This meter will be fine: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174&cp=&kw=multimeters&parentPage=search
Now, does the HU have more than one pair of RCA line sets available? Depending on your answer, we have a few options to consider.
Say more about the HU features and give a model number too.
Swez
beau640 on 03/30/2006 11:26:57
Nope no infinity system or an external amp supplying the door speakers. Door speakers are supplied power/sound from the internal amp in the HU. also only have one set of RCA lines coming out of the HU.
"If could also be a speaker shorting out. Most decks will shut th e amp off completly when one speaker shorts to keep it from letting all the smoke out. You can also try opening and moving the doors to see if you can get it them to cut off."
That's a good point, one i never knew. So if one speaker is dieing or shorting out at the speaker terminal rather than the HU, the HU will shut off the internal amp completely? that would explain why both speakers are cutting in and out at the same time and not just one. I'm going to try opening and closing the doors and see if that helps after i get out of school.
Should i take off my door panels and check the wires going to the speakers themselves to make sure everything is good? i never knew if one speaker messed up they would both shut off.
as to model number i'll check my chat logs when i get home because swez has found the model number for me a while ago when i was having some other problem. Model number is probably written on the HU somewhere too im guessing i'll pull it out and check since my dash is still off anyways lol.
Thanks
swez on 03/30/2006 14:20:27
If you have a shorted speaker or speaker line, that channel will not work.
The fact that you can get short periods of music from the speakers and then cuts out, generally means there are circuit problems inside the HU that are causing the HU amps to shut off. (Ie: HU amplifier power supply has gone amuck)
I see 2 options here:
1. Buy a new HU with features you like and make sure it has at least 2 pair of RCA outs
2. Can use a 2nd amp for full range speakers
Since this HU only has only1 pair of RCA's and it now feeds your sub amp, use a 2nd amp that has a pair of RCA preamp outputs. This allows you to piggy-back both amps with only 1 pair of RCA's.
Do you understand what option #2 means? (Piggy back part)
Swez
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 15:32:53
Yea i do but i'm not sure if my battery/alternator can handle the power load of another Amp since my audiobahn i have now is a High Current amp and draws an extremely large amount of power from my battery. I think adding another amp into the system would kill it lol. But yea i understand piggybacking.
I think i'm going to take the route of buying a new HU. Few questions first though. Will the HU i buy affect the sound quality i am getting from my subs in any way or will it only affect the door speakers? And are there any key features besides the RCA cables i should look for like the power of the amp inside the HU or should i just look for the features i want?
thanks
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 16:03:48
Hmmm...i actually found this in-dash motorized DVD system that i want...but i think i might have a problem...
When you look at my dashboard, the dash itself overhangs over where the stereo would go. so theres not much clearence between where the HU stops and the overhang starts since the HU is placed right under the overhang of the dash.
The way i see it, the only way i can get an in-dash video system is if the screen itself comes out far enough to go past the overhang...but the overhang is pretty long so i think this is impossible...which is really really dumb cause i really really want this in-dash video system lol.
The overhang itself extends out 3.5'
From the top of the HU to the start of the overhang is .5'
...Seems like unless the screen extends out 3.5', the only way to have an in-dash system is to cut out part of my dash
*cry*
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 16:28:03
heh sorry for yet again another post :)
So i'm looking at a bunch of HUs...and i'm realizing i don't know what a lot of these features are such as:
Subwoofer Crossover... (Yes or no)
Subwoofer output .... (Yes or no)
Voltage of Preouts .... (some V amount)...current HU i have is 2V
CD signal to noise ratio (db) .... (some amount in db)....current HU i have is 70db
Need to know what features i should be looking at and what values i should be looking for in the voltage and cd signal to noise ratio categories. also dont know what the sub crossover and output catagories mean heh.
My HU now has a BBE button which boosts the bass and this is a feature i really like besides the seperate + - controls for bass and trebbble. i'm having trouble finding this on other HU models. Is this button not on every HU? and is the "loudness" button on other HUs the same thing as a BBE button?
thanks
swez on 03/30/2006 19:39:39
The main features to look for are minimal moving parts, 2-3 pairs of RCA outs, (Fronts, Rears & Sub), RCA voltage of 4 volts is a definite winner and perhaps some nice EQ features.
Your subs and Bahn amp will not suffer a bit. Just need to adjust the amp gain to match the new HU used.
Alpine has several V-series HU's that put out 25-27 watts per channel. A typical HU ranges between 15-22 watts per channel. Your HU is 17 watts x 4. (We look at RMS watts, not peak)
BTW: Am wondering if you rewired the speakers to use the rear HU amps, if that might work for the moment? If those amps are OK, it might just buy you a little time to look for a replacement. Are you using the rear channels for speakers now?
Any HU w/ a Loudness contour feature, will boost lows and highs at low listening volumes. As the volume knob is dialed up, this feature usually becomes less involved automatically.
A quality HU that has advanced features, (Alpine and Pioneer HU's) will have a similar feature or a separate Bass engine control feature. You amp probably has a remote kit available too. This allow you to adjust the sub outputs via the remote bass control add on.
Have a look around at some HU's you like and then pass on the links. I'll review the specs and give you some feedback on same.
Swez
PS The more motorized gizzmos and gadgets used on a HU, the more possibilities of mechanical failures.
If you have an MP3 player or wish to use one in the future, look for a HU that has AUX inputs as well. This feature sure beats carrying around a pile of CD's, just to hear a few cuts you like, them have to flip in a new one or burn your own.
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 19:52:48
my amp does have a Bass Boost knob but i also liked the BBE on my HU now so that is a feature i'm looking for but having trouble finiding
i was really liken this one
http://www.millionbuy.com/duaxd7600.html
but it's only 2V not the 4V you were talking bout...lol having trouble finding ones that are 4V
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 19:55:18
i like this one too it's 4V
http://www.millionbuy.com/piodehp480mp.html
but i still want the BBE feature and i don't see it on either one of those but that 2nd one is a pioneer so will it have the bass engine control? or BBE?
oh what exactly is the difference between 2 and 4V?
will it effect the sound/loudness of the bass on my subs? cause i'm willing to invest more into a 4V one if it does
beau640 on 03/31/2006 08:23:23
Thinking about going to pick up a new HU today
I like that pioneer one but i also like the dual one...is SPL affected between the 2V and 4V from my subs?
ttocs on 03/31/2006 08:28:53
DO NO BUY DUAL.................. Unless yer installin it in yer yugo your wanting to sell.
BBE I thought was TM'd by alpine?
I would buy a deck for its output voltage, before any kind of bass boost feature. Its a case where more is better....
swez on 03/31/2006 08:43:03
Agreed! Stick with brand names that are trusted, proven and give true value for the money.
Think of this next purchase as a portable investment. Say you spend $200.00 and get 5 years from it. That's $40.00 a year invested in a very good product. Not a bad investment here. If you change vehicles, take it out and install a cheapie before you dump the vehicle.
Please, think Investment, not just a short term fix.
Have you tried the rear speaker amps in this present HU yet? If they work, you may have some time to gather your cash and get something you'll really enjoy for a long time.
Swez
beau640 on 03/31/2006 15:29:37
I could hook up my door speakers to my amp that i have for my subs right now, but that would mean loosing all my bass becasue i wouldn't have an amp for my subs to run off of. Yea it'd be a temp fix for the time being so at least i'd have words to the music but i'm looking for a permanent fix.
I have the money. my spending limit is $200 which i think is quite a reasonable amount for a HU. So i should stick to a proven name brand and get a 4V HU? alright that sounds good that will be the key option i'm looking for then. But i'm going to try to find a 4V HU w/ BBE or a bass engine. Hopefully i find what i'm looking for.
swez on 03/31/2006 16:13:31
Am wondering if that Bahn amp can be used in a rarely used configuration for the time being. That is, the front speakers are run off the amp in stereo mode and the subs are bridged along with the full range speakers in what is commonly called the "Tri-Mode" configuration.
Most 2 channel amps I have run across, can do this. The only thing one needs to add, is a passive sub filter to block the highs that would now come to the subs. (The HPF would also be used on the amp) More like a full range setting and probably use "Bass Blockers" on your door speakers as well.
Have a look at this: Use the 'link' select for more details too
http://www.bcae1.com/trimode.htm
Which Bahn amp do you have now? (Model #)
Swez
beau640 on 03/31/2006 20:50:10
....man....swez i desperately need your help
just bought this HU
http://www.millionbuy.com/piodehp480mp.html
I hooked it all up already..i am about 95% sure i did not mess up the installation because all i did was undo each wire from the old HU one b y one and combine it w/ the same color on the new HU...no way to mess up...
So i get all the wiring done and put it in...guess what...can you guess?
No sound from the door speakers still....there goes $160 becuase their exchange policy is not a full refund but rather exchange only..no cash...
all the features on the new HU work...i'm getting the exac tsame problem as w/ the old one...only sound from the subs and no sound from the door speakers...
I have no idea why i am not getting any sound from my door speakers...but we now know it wasn't becuase of the HU...
I'm sorry i know it's not your fault but i am extremely frusterated that all that money is lost and i am in desperate need of help to figure out why i am not getting sound still.
swez on 03/31/2006 21:39:38
OK, take a deep breath, relax and regain composure. Breath...
Now, let's go back and look at the speakers and if needed, run new wires too. If you recall our earlier topics, I mentioned testing the speakers with a small battery pack. Looking back, it appears that was not done? It needs to be done now.
If the speakers are damaged you will get little or no sound from this test. Same thing on the wires. If there is a bad connection or an intermittent open circuit, this needs to be tracked down and addressed.
Actually, we don't know if the original HU amps are working or not. To test that, need an extra test speaker and some wire with alligator clips. The HU can be tested either on a work bench and a 12 volt car battery or installed in the vehicle.
If your JVC HU is good, can you return the new HU for speakers? (if needed)
Wish we could chat on Yahoo IM. Then I could walk you through the steps in short order. My YIM is 'swezdp' and I am on there now.
Check that... will be back in ~15 mins. (10:00 PM EST)
Swez
Beau640 on 04/1/2006 13:22:33
Alright i have AIM (Burtonboarder640) MSN (Beau640@aol.com) and YIM (Beau9577) I use to have skype but you were the only one on there so i got rid of it lol
Anyways, when i got in my car this morning the door speakers cut in and out again just like last time so basicallly what i have is the exact same thing as b4. This pretty much in my mind confirms that the old HU was not broken.
As for testing the speakers, i would need help with this because i'm not sure how to go about that using the speaker and a battery back.
About checking for an open connection: All of the wire that i could see there was no open connection but theres certain areas i can't check like the parts that run behind the part of the dash that doesn't come out or the parts that run through the door joint. I checked everywhere else but those parts before because i wouldn't know how to go about running entirely new wire from the speaker up to the HU.
I am confident now that my new HU is hooked up 100% correctly since i heard the door speakers cutting in and out. I don't get how it could be my door speakers failing though because how could both of them go at the exact same time?
If there was exposed wire somewhere that i haven't checked yet, even when hooked up to my new HU would both of the speakers at the same time be cutting in and out?
I need help walking through some of this stuff i'll check for you on YIM and if you have the others you can check for me on there.
I have a group project to work on for school today but should be done around 6:00 pm EST
Thanks a lot
swez on 04/1/2006 14:42:59
The fact this new HU is exhibiting the same issues, points to a wiring problem between HU and speakers. It could be the harness has a bad fit or wiring under the dash is problematic.
The speakers are likely to be OK if they come on, play normally and then fizzle out again. I'm on YIM now and will check back with you until we connect. I am confident we can correct the problem. The trick is finding its point of origin first.
Swez
swez on 04/1/2006 15:30:30
OK, glad we spoke on YIM.
Based on comments and info shared, I would skip the wire testing part (with a battery) and just run temporary wires from door speakers to the speaker harness.
This will pretty much remove any possible issues that may be present with stock wires or even the possibilty of a Factory amp that may/may not be present in this truck.
If you get sound, then route your new speaker wires as best you can, through the door conduits and into the cabin. You may have to remove the kicl panels and fish your hand upward to find the wiring bundles that feed into the conduits. You may need to remobe the glove box on the Pass side, to really get to things well.
Worst case, I am only 40 miles away. If you wanted to run out here and we can do the work together, that would be fine by me too. I have the tools and such, you can do the work as I guide your efforts.
I have a well lit garage and plenty of work space available. Two heads and 4 hands can make short work of the process. In fact, I would enjoy the company and not an imposition at all.
Swez
Beau640 on 04/1/2006 19:17:24
Alright I really need to talk on YIM because i'm getting extremely frusterated...
Breathhhhh
heh. I skipped the battery testing part. I tried to hook up the speaker to the HU bypassing the big plastic harness and going right to the wires coming out of the HU. I did it w/ only 1 speaker because i did not want to take out both in case it didn't work, so the other one was left connected to the harness.
After connecting the speaker to the HU directly, i still recieved no sound from either speaker...*frusterated face*
I'm not 100% sure if i connected them correctly though...I thought i did what you meant but i could have done it wrong which is why i want to like draw something on paint to show you or something haha. but i know one thing for sure...my wires are getting very short and tangled and things are looking very grim. wires are everywhere now i finally got frusterated and just cut the remote, ground, and disconnected the harness and took it all inside.
I need help badly. The only thing i can think i did wrong is that i did not do it for both speakers at the same time, but only for 1 of them thinking that if there was infact a harness that we coulnd't see, the speaker would work since i bypassed it and the other would still be off. but neither worked.
heeeelp
I'm leaving my house for the night at 8:00pm EST so if i don't see you on YIM i'll talk to you tomorrow hopefully...but i'll be out of the house part of the day tomorrow so maybe we can plan something for later.
ttocs on 04/1/2006 19:42:44
did you take the door panels off yet? I'll bet one is shorting back there. Do you have an ohm meter or test light(+12v/gnd)? If so you can test them from the deck.
swez on 04/1/2006 20:22:49
His speakers are flush mounted to the outer door panels and cover screens over them. So, no need to remove the door panel just yet, just pull the speaker and run a wire set from HU speaker harness to the speaker.
NOTE POLARITY as you connect speakers to wires!!!
Yes, I'll be around on Sunday to try and walk ya through it. Worst case, come on out to GC and we'll do it here.
Swez
ttocs on 04/2/2006 12:27:18
sounds like a band-aid over the probem to me. Why not test the original wire to locate the point where it might be bad and fix them?
swez on 04/2/2006 13:16:44
Yes, that's what we are trying to do, but the wiring is well up under the dash and bundled with many others too. I suspect there is a secondary harness (or splices) in the dash somewhere, that may be faulty.
Not sure if this truck has factory amps either. It's a 91 Jeep Cherokee and I'd wonder if this model had a factory amp in it ??? If so, where to look?
Swez
swez on 04/5/2006 17:32:47
Well, I think we got it right fellas.
We ran new speaker lines from the HU harness to each door speaker and used the the OEM connections inside the kick panels as our tap in locations. This was not fun!!! The kicks came out OK, but getting them back in was another story.
We also re-wired the Adapter harness with crimp connectors and bundled everything neatly and securely and tucked it all into a pretty tight HU pocket. It was a very tight fit as we had to add 4" RCA extensions to the original lines. They were just a few inches too short, to work properly.
In all, Beau learned a lot and got his hands dirty too. He now knows that twisted wires and tape, are not a good way to go. The OEM harness from the HU to door jambs, seem to have been the culprit here. It's an older truck with a few miles on same, so it was not worth the time and bother to track down the possible connectors that were causing problems. We just by-passed that with new wire. (Would you believe we used #12 wire here?) That was fun.
I have a deeper respect for Pro Installers that do the hard work in the dash and back to the amps. This work is tedious, hard on the back and one needs to be very nimble in tight spaces. I was so sore this Am when I got up, I could barely move until the 1,000 mg's of Tylenol began to kick in.
In short, hats off to the Pro Installers among us. Hate this part of the job as I am not small, nimble nor a contortionist. However, in all we worked very well together, took a few "chill out" breaks and completed the work in about 3.5 hours. Yeah, that much time is probably excessive to a Pro, but when mentoring, testing all connections along the way and mopping up issues from a sloppy installer, it's just another day at the shop.
Job well done Beau!
Swez
PS Plan on getting a new water pump soon bud. That one is on it's way out soon. Also, consider replacing your power antenna with regular whip or stubby. I have repaired one before and it's not worth the effort. Especially in a front cowel mounting location.
Beau640 on 04/6/2006 20:10:13
would just like to give swez a special thanks for going out of his way so much to help me like that. the new HU looks and sounds great. with all the engines set correctly in it everything sounds so much better than w/ my old HU. Feels good to finally have music again. BTW i left my CD over there in your player but I have another copy of it anyways and you said you liked it so it's all yours :P
I got my brakes worked on today and they checked the Serpentine belt and said that that was what was making the noise not the Water pump. they said that the belt is fine though and shouldn't be replaced. they greased up the belt, the noise went away for about an hour, then came back LOL. Oh well :(
Oh and when i left your house, i got pulled over getting onto I-96 for "going through a red light" lol musta turned red when i went under it or something and for having "tinted windows" and "neon licenseplate"....basterd cops lol.
Oh and the anntenna still isnt' working lol thinking the motor just died or something. If i get a "stubby" antenna will i get just as good as reception as with a "whip" or power one? I'm thinking of just leaving my power one in there just forever in the up position lol it's worken just fine like that.
Anyways thanks a lot again Swez i owe you big time you say hats off to the pro installers i say hats off to you for going out of your way to help me and to help all these people on the forums.
Thanks
swez on 04/7/2006 09:19:40
Yes, I found the CD and thanks as I do like many of the cuts on it.
Sorry to hear you got stopped by "Livonia's finest" on the way home though. (or was it a State Trooper?) I think we were both pretty drained by the time you left here and am glad you made it home OK.
Yes, we worked well together, considering the condition of things when ya got here. Hope you learned some valuable tips and tricks along the way. I had no idea how deep we needed to go on this project either. But, that's where the fun comes in.
Am glad you are well satisfied with the results. Consider amping the Polk fronts as this system is very Bass Heavy at the moment.
About the antenna, just leave it as is for now. If it works well enough, why fix it? Getting the old one out may prove very challenging. I have never done a cowel mounted power antenna. But, for the general look of things, this one will not be easy or cheap to repair/replace.
Swez
PS We did not discuss a set fee for this project. However, "tips" are always appreciated. Considering what this job may have cost at a shop and the time/materials I provided, am sure you'll figure out something that is appropriate. Enjoy your tunes! SMILE
Just recently my door speakers have started cutting out. At first it was like once every 10 minutes for short periods of time but now i can't even really get them to come back on unless i hit a bump really hard.
The strange thing is, my subs stay on the entire time. You can hear the bass of the song, the stream of music through the subs is constant and never cuts out, but the door speakers cut in and out for short periods of time randomly (doesn't have to be when i hit a bump it does it when i am in park too).
The Deck never loses power or anything and all of its functions still work. All the door speakers cut out at once, not just 1. The subs never cut out.
I'm thinking that it could be a wiring problem with the Deck, not with the speakers themselves since i think if it was a problem with the wires going to the speakers only 1 would cut out. I'm thinking the subs never cut out because they are attached w/ RC cables and not wired to the harness of the Deck. Could there be a problem with my harness? My power antenna still works and that runs through the harness so i was thinking the harness is fine.
I'm going to take the deck out and jiggle some wires and removed some electrical tape to see if anything came unsodered hopefully today. If you've heard of this problem b4 or know what could possibly be causing this, your help would be greatly appreciated. It's very frusterating to have constant bass and the words to the songs cutting in and out _
JVC Chamellion Deck
2 Polk Audio db525 door speakers
2 15" Solo-Barix subs
1 Audiobahn A2150HCT amp
Thanks again
Replies (35)
swez on 03/29/2006 18:20:37
Yes, it does sound like the speaker wiring harness may be part of the problem.
Also, periodic wiring shorts can cause this too. This is especially possible when speaker wires are simply wrapped and taped together and not secure with crimp connectors or soldering the joints and sleeving them with shrink tubing.
The other possible cause, is pinched speaker wiring that is starting to fail. This is common when wires are just run through the door jambs, but not protected by the flex duct between door and jamb or good insulating/grommets between sharp metal holes that may have been used.
Check those items first. If that does not correct the problem, come back with more info.
Swez
Beau640 on 03/29/2006 18:36:50
Wondering if i should replace the entire harness or not...but before i do
I took everything apart and jiggled it all and it did nothing. took off all the electrical tape and everything is fine. nothing is loose or pinched and the soder is still fresh on the wires. (not old looking or worn). the speakers are no longer cutting in or out but instead are just completely dead it seems. it's not just one it's both at the exact same time. i can't get them to come back on anymore either. wondering if the harness is completely dead or not, but if the harness was dead, wouldn't you see some other problems since so many other parts to the Deck run through the harness?
thanks
swez on 03/29/2006 18:41:57
The next test, involves sending signals through the wires to see if the speakers are getting any juice. A small battery pack is a good source of DC voltage to activate the speakers and make them click, pop or hum. If you get these sounds, the wires and speakers are probably OK.
If there is no sound at all, connections at the speaker, a bad crossover or blown speakers are possible.
The last test involves connecting a known good speaker to the HU wiring harness. If you get audio, the HU amps are working. If not, the HU amps are damaged.
Swez
Beau640 on 03/29/2006 19:22:46
I am 100% sure these speakers are fine so i'm thinking the HU amps could be damage...is there anyway i can bypass this to make sure? can i hook up a small amp to the HU w/ my door speakers on it and see if i get Audio instead of using the amp inside the HU?
The HU amps being damaged would make sense because my Subs that are running on a amp right now are working fine...
Beau640 on 03/29/2006 19:39:07
Well i just put my stuff back together for the day and i'll work on it more tomorrow. after i screwed my HU back in, the speakers kicked in randomly for like 10 seconds then cut out again. I'm thinkin it is the amp inside the HU that is about to go. Is it expensive to replace the harness cause i'd do that first b4 i bought a whole new HU. and if it is the amp inside the HU, is there a test i can do to be absolutely sure that is the problem and can you replace the amp inside the HU or do you have to buy a whole new one
thanks
swez on 03/29/2006 19:58:49
You can still use the HU here, but the internal amps may be on their way out. If this HU has multiple RCA outs, you can feed the front Polks off amplified signals.
Fixing an older HU is usually not worth the cost of repairs and down time. If you have 4 or more years on this one, it's time.
Swez
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 00:27:26
Well i know it has at least 2 years cause that is how long i've had the car for and it was already installed in the car when i bought it. they don't even make or sell these models of JVC anymore so i'm thinkin it's time.
Should i even try swapping out the harness before i buy a completely new HU? or is it not worth it? heh i donno where i would even buy a new harness--are they all universal so i can buy them at any car audio store?
I'm going to try to find someone that has an old HU that they arn't using so i can hook it up real quick and make sure that is what i need. Wouldn't want to buy a new HU and find out that wasn't the problem.
ttocs on 03/30/2006 00:29:31
did the jeep have an Infinity system in it? If so it could be the factory amp cutting out. If could also be a speaker shorting out. Most decks will shut th e amp off completly when one speaker shorts to keep it from letting all the smoke out. You can also try opening and moving the doors to see if you can get it them to cut off. An ohm meter would be great here if you have one.
swez on 03/30/2006 07:15:15
Good point ttocs... if there is a factory amp in this system and it is connected to the HU speaker outs, then to factory amps, if amps feed outputs to speakers, if the amp is losing power for some reason, you will lose speaker outputs.
A multimeter would indeed help as a diagnotic tool here. For $20.00, you can get a nice, full featured digital meter from Radio Shack. With the meter, you can test HU amp voltages, speaker ohmic ratings and trace AC or DC voltages along the various stages of your system.
This meter will be fine: http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2103174&cp=&kw=multimeters&parentPage=search
Now, does the HU have more than one pair of RCA line sets available? Depending on your answer, we have a few options to consider.
Say more about the HU features and give a model number too.
Swez
beau640 on 03/30/2006 11:26:57
Nope no infinity system or an external amp supplying the door speakers. Door speakers are supplied power/sound from the internal amp in the HU. also only have one set of RCA lines coming out of the HU.
"If could also be a speaker shorting out. Most decks will shut th e amp off completly when one speaker shorts to keep it from letting all the smoke out. You can also try opening and moving the doors to see if you can get it them to cut off."
That's a good point, one i never knew. So if one speaker is dieing or shorting out at the speaker terminal rather than the HU, the HU will shut off the internal amp completely? that would explain why both speakers are cutting in and out at the same time and not just one. I'm going to try opening and closing the doors and see if that helps after i get out of school.
Should i take off my door panels and check the wires going to the speakers themselves to make sure everything is good? i never knew if one speaker messed up they would both shut off.
as to model number i'll check my chat logs when i get home because swez has found the model number for me a while ago when i was having some other problem. Model number is probably written on the HU somewhere too im guessing i'll pull it out and check since my dash is still off anyways lol.
Thanks
swez on 03/30/2006 14:20:27
If you have a shorted speaker or speaker line, that channel will not work.
The fact that you can get short periods of music from the speakers and then cuts out, generally means there are circuit problems inside the HU that are causing the HU amps to shut off. (Ie: HU amplifier power supply has gone amuck)
I see 2 options here:
1. Buy a new HU with features you like and make sure it has at least 2 pair of RCA outs
2. Can use a 2nd amp for full range speakers
Since this HU only has only1 pair of RCA's and it now feeds your sub amp, use a 2nd amp that has a pair of RCA preamp outputs. This allows you to piggy-back both amps with only 1 pair of RCA's.
Do you understand what option #2 means? (Piggy back part)
Swez
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 15:32:53
Yea i do but i'm not sure if my battery/alternator can handle the power load of another Amp since my audiobahn i have now is a High Current amp and draws an extremely large amount of power from my battery. I think adding another amp into the system would kill it lol. But yea i understand piggybacking.
I think i'm going to take the route of buying a new HU. Few questions first though. Will the HU i buy affect the sound quality i am getting from my subs in any way or will it only affect the door speakers? And are there any key features besides the RCA cables i should look for like the power of the amp inside the HU or should i just look for the features i want?
thanks
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 16:03:48
Hmmm...i actually found this in-dash motorized DVD system that i want...but i think i might have a problem...
When you look at my dashboard, the dash itself overhangs over where the stereo would go. so theres not much clearence between where the HU stops and the overhang starts since the HU is placed right under the overhang of the dash.
The way i see it, the only way i can get an in-dash video system is if the screen itself comes out far enough to go past the overhang...but the overhang is pretty long so i think this is impossible...which is really really dumb cause i really really want this in-dash video system lol.
The overhang itself extends out 3.5'
From the top of the HU to the start of the overhang is .5'
...Seems like unless the screen extends out 3.5', the only way to have an in-dash system is to cut out part of my dash
*cry*
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 16:28:03
heh sorry for yet again another post :)
So i'm looking at a bunch of HUs...and i'm realizing i don't know what a lot of these features are such as:
Subwoofer Crossover... (Yes or no)
Subwoofer output .... (Yes or no)
Voltage of Preouts .... (some V amount)...current HU i have is 2V
CD signal to noise ratio (db) .... (some amount in db)....current HU i have is 70db
Need to know what features i should be looking at and what values i should be looking for in the voltage and cd signal to noise ratio categories. also dont know what the sub crossover and output catagories mean heh.
My HU now has a BBE button which boosts the bass and this is a feature i really like besides the seperate + - controls for bass and trebbble. i'm having trouble finding this on other HU models. Is this button not on every HU? and is the "loudness" button on other HUs the same thing as a BBE button?
thanks
swez on 03/30/2006 19:39:39
The main features to look for are minimal moving parts, 2-3 pairs of RCA outs, (Fronts, Rears & Sub), RCA voltage of 4 volts is a definite winner and perhaps some nice EQ features.
Your subs and Bahn amp will not suffer a bit. Just need to adjust the amp gain to match the new HU used.
Alpine has several V-series HU's that put out 25-27 watts per channel. A typical HU ranges between 15-22 watts per channel. Your HU is 17 watts x 4. (We look at RMS watts, not peak)
BTW: Am wondering if you rewired the speakers to use the rear HU amps, if that might work for the moment? If those amps are OK, it might just buy you a little time to look for a replacement. Are you using the rear channels for speakers now?
Any HU w/ a Loudness contour feature, will boost lows and highs at low listening volumes. As the volume knob is dialed up, this feature usually becomes less involved automatically.
A quality HU that has advanced features, (Alpine and Pioneer HU's) will have a similar feature or a separate Bass engine control feature. You amp probably has a remote kit available too. This allow you to adjust the sub outputs via the remote bass control add on.
Have a look around at some HU's you like and then pass on the links. I'll review the specs and give you some feedback on same.
Swez
PS The more motorized gizzmos and gadgets used on a HU, the more possibilities of mechanical failures.
If you have an MP3 player or wish to use one in the future, look for a HU that has AUX inputs as well. This feature sure beats carrying around a pile of CD's, just to hear a few cuts you like, them have to flip in a new one or burn your own.
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 19:52:48
my amp does have a Bass Boost knob but i also liked the BBE on my HU now so that is a feature i'm looking for but having trouble finiding
i was really liken this one
http://www.millionbuy.com/duaxd7600.html
but it's only 2V not the 4V you were talking bout...lol having trouble finding ones that are 4V
Beau640 on 03/30/2006 19:55:18
i like this one too it's 4V
http://www.millionbuy.com/piodehp480mp.html
but i still want the BBE feature and i don't see it on either one of those but that 2nd one is a pioneer so will it have the bass engine control? or BBE?
oh what exactly is the difference between 2 and 4V?
will it effect the sound/loudness of the bass on my subs? cause i'm willing to invest more into a 4V one if it does
beau640 on 03/31/2006 08:23:23
Thinking about going to pick up a new HU today
I like that pioneer one but i also like the dual one...is SPL affected between the 2V and 4V from my subs?
ttocs on 03/31/2006 08:28:53
DO NO BUY DUAL.................. Unless yer installin it in yer yugo your wanting to sell.
BBE I thought was TM'd by alpine?
I would buy a deck for its output voltage, before any kind of bass boost feature. Its a case where more is better....
swez on 03/31/2006 08:43:03
Agreed! Stick with brand names that are trusted, proven and give true value for the money.
Think of this next purchase as a portable investment. Say you spend $200.00 and get 5 years from it. That's $40.00 a year invested in a very good product. Not a bad investment here. If you change vehicles, take it out and install a cheapie before you dump the vehicle.
Please, think Investment, not just a short term fix.
Have you tried the rear speaker amps in this present HU yet? If they work, you may have some time to gather your cash and get something you'll really enjoy for a long time.
Swez
beau640 on 03/31/2006 15:29:37
I could hook up my door speakers to my amp that i have for my subs right now, but that would mean loosing all my bass becasue i wouldn't have an amp for my subs to run off of. Yea it'd be a temp fix for the time being so at least i'd have words to the music but i'm looking for a permanent fix.
I have the money. my spending limit is $200 which i think is quite a reasonable amount for a HU. So i should stick to a proven name brand and get a 4V HU? alright that sounds good that will be the key option i'm looking for then. But i'm going to try to find a 4V HU w/ BBE or a bass engine. Hopefully i find what i'm looking for.
swez on 03/31/2006 16:13:31
Am wondering if that Bahn amp can be used in a rarely used configuration for the time being. That is, the front speakers are run off the amp in stereo mode and the subs are bridged along with the full range speakers in what is commonly called the "Tri-Mode" configuration.
Most 2 channel amps I have run across, can do this. The only thing one needs to add, is a passive sub filter to block the highs that would now come to the subs. (The HPF would also be used on the amp) More like a full range setting and probably use "Bass Blockers" on your door speakers as well.
Have a look at this: Use the 'link' select for more details too
http://www.bcae1.com/trimode.htm
Which Bahn amp do you have now? (Model #)
Swez
beau640 on 03/31/2006 20:50:10
....man....swez i desperately need your help
just bought this HU
http://www.millionbuy.com/piodehp480mp.html
I hooked it all up already..i am about 95% sure i did not mess up the installation because all i did was undo each wire from the old HU one b y one and combine it w/ the same color on the new HU...no way to mess up...
So i get all the wiring done and put it in...guess what...can you guess?
No sound from the door speakers still....there goes $160 becuase their exchange policy is not a full refund but rather exchange only..no cash...
all the features on the new HU work...i'm getting the exac tsame problem as w/ the old one...only sound from the subs and no sound from the door speakers...
I have no idea why i am not getting any sound from my door speakers...but we now know it wasn't becuase of the HU...
I'm sorry i know it's not your fault but i am extremely frusterated that all that money is lost and i am in desperate need of help to figure out why i am not getting sound still.
swez on 03/31/2006 21:39:38
OK, take a deep breath, relax and regain composure. Breath...
Now, let's go back and look at the speakers and if needed, run new wires too. If you recall our earlier topics, I mentioned testing the speakers with a small battery pack. Looking back, it appears that was not done? It needs to be done now.
If the speakers are damaged you will get little or no sound from this test. Same thing on the wires. If there is a bad connection or an intermittent open circuit, this needs to be tracked down and addressed.
Actually, we don't know if the original HU amps are working or not. To test that, need an extra test speaker and some wire with alligator clips. The HU can be tested either on a work bench and a 12 volt car battery or installed in the vehicle.
If your JVC HU is good, can you return the new HU for speakers? (if needed)
Wish we could chat on Yahoo IM. Then I could walk you through the steps in short order. My YIM is 'swezdp' and I am on there now.
Check that... will be back in ~15 mins. (10:00 PM EST)
Swez
Beau640 on 04/1/2006 13:22:33
Alright i have AIM (Burtonboarder640) MSN (Beau640@aol.com) and YIM (Beau9577) I use to have skype but you were the only one on there so i got rid of it lol
Anyways, when i got in my car this morning the door speakers cut in and out again just like last time so basicallly what i have is the exact same thing as b4. This pretty much in my mind confirms that the old HU was not broken.
As for testing the speakers, i would need help with this because i'm not sure how to go about that using the speaker and a battery back.
About checking for an open connection: All of the wire that i could see there was no open connection but theres certain areas i can't check like the parts that run behind the part of the dash that doesn't come out or the parts that run through the door joint. I checked everywhere else but those parts before because i wouldn't know how to go about running entirely new wire from the speaker up to the HU.
I am confident now that my new HU is hooked up 100% correctly since i heard the door speakers cutting in and out. I don't get how it could be my door speakers failing though because how could both of them go at the exact same time?
If there was exposed wire somewhere that i haven't checked yet, even when hooked up to my new HU would both of the speakers at the same time be cutting in and out?
I need help walking through some of this stuff i'll check for you on YIM and if you have the others you can check for me on there.
I have a group project to work on for school today but should be done around 6:00 pm EST
Thanks a lot
swez on 04/1/2006 14:42:59
The fact this new HU is exhibiting the same issues, points to a wiring problem between HU and speakers. It could be the harness has a bad fit or wiring under the dash is problematic.
The speakers are likely to be OK if they come on, play normally and then fizzle out again. I'm on YIM now and will check back with you until we connect. I am confident we can correct the problem. The trick is finding its point of origin first.
Swez
swez on 04/1/2006 15:30:30
OK, glad we spoke on YIM.
Based on comments and info shared, I would skip the wire testing part (with a battery) and just run temporary wires from door speakers to the speaker harness.
This will pretty much remove any possible issues that may be present with stock wires or even the possibilty of a Factory amp that may/may not be present in this truck.
If you get sound, then route your new speaker wires as best you can, through the door conduits and into the cabin. You may have to remove the kicl panels and fish your hand upward to find the wiring bundles that feed into the conduits. You may need to remobe the glove box on the Pass side, to really get to things well.
Worst case, I am only 40 miles away. If you wanted to run out here and we can do the work together, that would be fine by me too. I have the tools and such, you can do the work as I guide your efforts.
I have a well lit garage and plenty of work space available. Two heads and 4 hands can make short work of the process. In fact, I would enjoy the company and not an imposition at all.
Swez
Beau640 on 04/1/2006 19:17:24
Alright I really need to talk on YIM because i'm getting extremely frusterated...
Breathhhhh
heh. I skipped the battery testing part. I tried to hook up the speaker to the HU bypassing the big plastic harness and going right to the wires coming out of the HU. I did it w/ only 1 speaker because i did not want to take out both in case it didn't work, so the other one was left connected to the harness.
After connecting the speaker to the HU directly, i still recieved no sound from either speaker...*frusterated face*
I'm not 100% sure if i connected them correctly though...I thought i did what you meant but i could have done it wrong which is why i want to like draw something on paint to show you or something haha. but i know one thing for sure...my wires are getting very short and tangled and things are looking very grim. wires are everywhere now i finally got frusterated and just cut the remote, ground, and disconnected the harness and took it all inside.
I need help badly. The only thing i can think i did wrong is that i did not do it for both speakers at the same time, but only for 1 of them thinking that if there was infact a harness that we coulnd't see, the speaker would work since i bypassed it and the other would still be off. but neither worked.
heeeelp
I'm leaving my house for the night at 8:00pm EST so if i don't see you on YIM i'll talk to you tomorrow hopefully...but i'll be out of the house part of the day tomorrow so maybe we can plan something for later.
ttocs on 04/1/2006 19:42:44
did you take the door panels off yet? I'll bet one is shorting back there. Do you have an ohm meter or test light(+12v/gnd)? If so you can test them from the deck.
swez on 04/1/2006 20:22:49
His speakers are flush mounted to the outer door panels and cover screens over them. So, no need to remove the door panel just yet, just pull the speaker and run a wire set from HU speaker harness to the speaker.
NOTE POLARITY as you connect speakers to wires!!!
Yes, I'll be around on Sunday to try and walk ya through it. Worst case, come on out to GC and we'll do it here.
Swez
ttocs on 04/2/2006 12:27:18
sounds like a band-aid over the probem to me. Why not test the original wire to locate the point where it might be bad and fix them?
swez on 04/2/2006 13:16:44
Yes, that's what we are trying to do, but the wiring is well up under the dash and bundled with many others too. I suspect there is a secondary harness (or splices) in the dash somewhere, that may be faulty.
Not sure if this truck has factory amps either. It's a 91 Jeep Cherokee and I'd wonder if this model had a factory amp in it ??? If so, where to look?
Swez
swez on 04/5/2006 17:32:47
Well, I think we got it right fellas.
We ran new speaker lines from the HU harness to each door speaker and used the the OEM connections inside the kick panels as our tap in locations. This was not fun!!! The kicks came out OK, but getting them back in was another story.
We also re-wired the Adapter harness with crimp connectors and bundled everything neatly and securely and tucked it all into a pretty tight HU pocket. It was a very tight fit as we had to add 4" RCA extensions to the original lines. They were just a few inches too short, to work properly.
In all, Beau learned a lot and got his hands dirty too. He now knows that twisted wires and tape, are not a good way to go. The OEM harness from the HU to door jambs, seem to have been the culprit here. It's an older truck with a few miles on same, so it was not worth the time and bother to track down the possible connectors that were causing problems. We just by-passed that with new wire. (Would you believe we used #12 wire here?) That was fun.
I have a deeper respect for Pro Installers that do the hard work in the dash and back to the amps. This work is tedious, hard on the back and one needs to be very nimble in tight spaces. I was so sore this Am when I got up, I could barely move until the 1,000 mg's of Tylenol began to kick in.
In short, hats off to the Pro Installers among us. Hate this part of the job as I am not small, nimble nor a contortionist. However, in all we worked very well together, took a few "chill out" breaks and completed the work in about 3.5 hours. Yeah, that much time is probably excessive to a Pro, but when mentoring, testing all connections along the way and mopping up issues from a sloppy installer, it's just another day at the shop.
Job well done Beau!
Swez
PS Plan on getting a new water pump soon bud. That one is on it's way out soon. Also, consider replacing your power antenna with regular whip or stubby. I have repaired one before and it's not worth the effort. Especially in a front cowel mounting location.
Beau640 on 04/6/2006 20:10:13
would just like to give swez a special thanks for going out of his way so much to help me like that. the new HU looks and sounds great. with all the engines set correctly in it everything sounds so much better than w/ my old HU. Feels good to finally have music again. BTW i left my CD over there in your player but I have another copy of it anyways and you said you liked it so it's all yours :P
I got my brakes worked on today and they checked the Serpentine belt and said that that was what was making the noise not the Water pump. they said that the belt is fine though and shouldn't be replaced. they greased up the belt, the noise went away for about an hour, then came back LOL. Oh well :(
Oh and when i left your house, i got pulled over getting onto I-96 for "going through a red light" lol musta turned red when i went under it or something and for having "tinted windows" and "neon licenseplate"....basterd cops lol.
Oh and the anntenna still isnt' working lol thinking the motor just died or something. If i get a "stubby" antenna will i get just as good as reception as with a "whip" or power one? I'm thinking of just leaving my power one in there just forever in the up position lol it's worken just fine like that.
Anyways thanks a lot again Swez i owe you big time you say hats off to the pro installers i say hats off to you for going out of your way to help me and to help all these people on the forums.
Thanks
swez on 04/7/2006 09:19:40
Yes, I found the CD and thanks as I do like many of the cuts on it.
Sorry to hear you got stopped by "Livonia's finest" on the way home though. (or was it a State Trooper?) I think we were both pretty drained by the time you left here and am glad you made it home OK.
Yes, we worked well together, considering the condition of things when ya got here. Hope you learned some valuable tips and tricks along the way. I had no idea how deep we needed to go on this project either. But, that's where the fun comes in.
Am glad you are well satisfied with the results. Consider amping the Polk fronts as this system is very Bass Heavy at the moment.
About the antenna, just leave it as is for now. If it works well enough, why fix it? Getting the old one out may prove very challenging. I have never done a cowel mounted power antenna. But, for the general look of things, this one will not be easy or cheap to repair/replace.
Swez
PS We did not discuss a set fee for this project. However, "tips" are always appreciated. Considering what this job may have cost at a shop and the time/materials I provided, am sure you'll figure out something that is appropriate. Enjoy your tunes! SMILE
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