ok guys heres how it is i know diddly bout speakers altho i know i want loud bass i have crappy p 2 rockfords and i want extremme bass whats the best choice 4 a cheap cheap price
Replies (39)
Victor on 03/6/2006 08:22:41
Dont most of us out here want Loud and clean Bass.??
How do u define cheap price.... ???What is your budget???
What exactly are u looking to buy?? setup?? tweak??
What makes the rest of your audio system?? Amps??Subs??Speakers??HU?? etc....
Give some detailed info so that we could help.
Victor...
MrBrownstone on 03/6/2006 10:45:41
Loud & cheap is like a hot girlfriend who isn't needy or is low maintenance---it's a unicorn.
lionheart8305 on 03/6/2006 15:50:13
ok i have two p2 rockfords subs and a 900 watt p3001 amp along with a alpine 360 watt amp that i had my buddy combine 2 power the subs i already have i have infinity ref. 6/9 "s and the same for the door speakers i have a pioneer cd deck im not sure what model butttt im working with about 600 dollars and i also have the p 6001 rockford amp that i plan 2 hook up 2 what ever speakers i get i dunno tho ,, is there some magical brand that is cheap and hits very loud and clear lol umm what else also would it sound good 2 mix the p2 subs i already have along with whatever subs i get ,, im thinkin that will just increase the bass help me out lol
compvr15s on 03/6/2006 16:06:39
mix matching subs usually isnt that great, unless you stick with one brand and series, like JL audio W3s lets say, with 2 10s and a 12 or a combo like that you can get great results, but when mixing brands its hard to say what the results will be, cuz the woofers are made differently... only problem i see here is your amping power, you have a 300watt rms and a 150watt rms mono amp, and then whatever the alpine amp is... is it possible for you to maybe return these amps or sell them and try to use that money towards your budget.. bumping up to a 600 watt amp here will probably help you on your quest for more bass. with 600 watts and a single 12inch sub and a ported box you can get mind blowing bass, and probably even stay under the 600 dollars right now. but why have 3 exrta amps laying around, unless they are not class d amps, then you can use 1 of them to run your interior speakers to give them a lil booste, only if they are aftermarket speaks tho, amping factory speakers will get you nowhere, just blow them in short time more than likely.... but if that sounds like a plan, look for a solid 600 watt amp from a reputable manufature, alpine, mtx, kicker, RF, hifonics. something like that prolly between 200-350 dollars.... the subs you mention seem to be a modest entry level sub, but probably dont pound out that much bass. how many subs do you want, you get make 1 sub with proper install sound like 2-3 subs, its all in the install 10% product 90% install... who knows maybe we can bring the subs you have to life, just need proper tuning or different box here... wait for some of the other here to post, dont go out and do anything just yet, we will get something worked out for ya tho, just be patient
ttocs on 03/6/2006 16:33:41
I can't understand what you have or want, as it is all thrown together in one sentence.
Victor on 03/6/2006 16:48:24
hey compvr.. wassup dude, what did u decide with the enclosure thing we talked about over a conference with swez...
compvr15s on 03/6/2006 16:51:29
actully me and the old lady split up so i havent done anything yet, hopefully we will come to terms and get things figured out and back together, but im thinkin the 2 10s in the wedge box will probably be how i go.
Victor on 03/6/2006 16:59:16
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=19&item_id=96761&locale=en_US
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=4&series_id=31&family_id=10&item_id=91809&locale=en_US
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=19&item_id=91949&locale=en_US
are these the amps and subs you have???
Victor on 03/6/2006 17:01:31
i am on yahoo.. care to chat in real time??
compvr15s on 03/6/2006 17:08:26
my bad on the amp suggestion, for some reason i didnt check FR for the amps and found the wrong specs, so you are already hafl way there, just configuring the amps for the subs you choose is probably all you will face now, and the type of enclosure you want to use.
Ash on 03/6/2006 18:25:58
Loud and Clean? Perhaps you should get some maids inside your trunk to beat against the sheet metal and scream & holler. GRIN
Seriously though, to get it loud and clean at the same time can mean different things to different people. It can also be expensive as well depending on what you consider loud. Louder than stock or louder than your neighbors boomin system? Clean as in you don't hear your trunk rattling or clean as in you can discern every instrument with a smooth tonal balance abroad?
There are a plethora of viable products on the market that could eat up 600 bucks, but to plan ahead to stretch them "bones" and get the right setup will be far worth it in the end.
What exactly are your tastes (the best you can explain) in volume, music, and tonal qualities of how you would like it to sound? Try to break each topic down to paragraphs so we can better understand and give you the help you need.
swez on 03/6/2006 22:17:51
Indeed! Like he said... I can't make heads or tail of all the jumbled up words.
Swez COFFEE
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 03:40:45
Ok for all you who cannot fully understand me , i have a 900 watt rockford amp. i also have a 360 watt alpine amp i have them crossedover i believe thats what you call it .
I also have two 12 inch p2 subs that i have hooked up to the amps i mentioned .i have a pioneer cd deck, and as far as the 6/9's and the door speakers i have infinity reference . all of this is hooked up already .
The subs are a little bit distorted . i believe this is due to having them installed by a friend . dont get me wrong there decent. just i am a person who likes loud bass. the kind thats not mistaken for any others ,so far i have not got there .
I just found out today my sister bought me two 12 inch pheonix gold rsd12d subs . Are they any good ???? can i add them to my rockfords?????
I want a loud deep thumpping bass not the truck rattling bass i have as of now what do i do ?????
Um well i guess thats it hope you understand sentence structure lol
Victor on 03/7/2006 04:00:28
hey lion, i had mentioned a few links, can you tel me if those are the subs and amp you got....
Victor...
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 04:33:00
yes they are the amps and subs i have altho the p 6001 the more powerful amp may be broke not sure .. i also have a 360 watt 4 channel alpine amp
Victor on 03/7/2006 04:45:56
ok, well if the p6001 is in working condition, then i guess u dont need new amps or new subs, you just need a new enclosure for those subs...
600wrms to 2 x 200wrms subs, in a tuned 4th order bandpass can give you excellent loudness you are looking for, and that too for the cheapest possible price.
Victor...
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 05:02:20
whats a 4 order bandpass ? and are the pheonix gold 12 inch rsd12d any good since i have them already and can i combine them with the rockfords ?
Victor on 03/7/2006 06:54:11
These PG are decent subs, but,
each one u mentioned is a 500wrms sub and a 4ohm dvc...
i would suggest using just one to its full potential instead of both of them and this could be pretty loud for regular listening too.
combining this with another Pg sub u got or with the RF's would not be advised as it will be of no audible difference except added distortion.
So as per my view, the RFp6001 @ 2ohms - 600wrms with a Pg rsd12d -500wrms wired parallel @ 2ohms in a ported enclosure tuned at around 35hz is the best way to go.
Victor..
Ps. here is a brief explanation about various enclosure types.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t18
this one has various formulaes on designing different kinds of enclosures.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t22
here are the do's and dont's while building an enclosure.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t26
hope this helps...
P.s.s . Also if you wanna stop those rattles,. u gotta spend a bit on Sound deadening the trunk and the doors. will help reduce the rattling even eleminate it completely if done properly,. also will enhance the bass greatly.
there are many cheap options available on the internet, i dont have the link, but Swez has found some spray which is used in NASA space crafts for sound and vibration damping and is very cheap compared to other options on the internet,.. may be he cud put that link up for u..
swez on 03/7/2006 11:12:03
This came off e-bay. You may wish to contact the seller and see if you can obtain this product via his contacts:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPRAY-DEADENER-damping-Undercoating-undercoat-dynamat_W0QQitemZ5864786980QQcategoryZ67760QQcmdZViewItem
Swez
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 15:30:02
Ok so the pheonix golds are justttt ok should i try 2 return them 2 crutchfield and get a different pair ? If so the total of the subs are 300 $
soo i would have 2 find a similair pair .. i saw these kenwoods that are pushing 1500 watts peak for the same price should i get those ?
does more watts mean more bass?
the link 2 the kenwoods is this:::::::::
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-wDil47pFfSt/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=113W3514
what should i do
Victor on 03/7/2006 15:32:27
do u have any real time chat messengers like yahoo, msn ..??
Victor on 03/7/2006 15:49:18
could you replace the PG rsd 12d with the single voice coil PG rsd12, if yes then you could use both the subs and wire them to the RF6001p amp for a total of 2 ohms load..
Ps. But if you are replacing them then there are many better options available for almost the same price..
if you could get in touch in real time, then it would be easier to help you out..
swez on 03/7/2006 16:15:43
Is this the sub amp you have now?
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=19&item_id=96761&locale=en_US
If yes, then Victor has brought you a good sub selection. A pair of these will do nicely.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-JpBsU3gmSo5/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=218RSD12
Those Kenwoods are a good step up in power and efficiency over the older dB and Tornado models, but they are 4+4 DVC's too. You would need a 1 ohm stable Class D amp for these or the present PG's you mentioned earlier.
Swez
Victor on 03/7/2006 16:23:40
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1222
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=107MM2124
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=107DB124
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWE1242
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081250W
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=236T4512
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=2065C12VR2
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=108K1247W
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=218RSD12
you could pick up a pair from any of the above mentioned subs..
Victor..
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 17:34:25
thanks 4 all the info its really helping out . if yall wanna instant message me you can at :: excalibur8305 ;;;; my e mail is excalibur8305@aol.com ,,,, i think im gonna return them for the polk momos mentioned above or the infinity refff. are the kenwoods better than the polks?
Victor on 03/7/2006 17:43:47
I would personally wanna go with polk or alpine , over kenwood or infinity..
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 17:54:50
ok thx im ill do that ,, does more watts mean more bass ?
Victor on 03/7/2006 18:06:06
no , more watts on just the sub does not mean more bass...
When a sub is ginve the right amount of power it will perform well, a sub rated at 500wrms when given 200wrms will not perform at its best..
there has to be this just right combination for it to perform well..
Usually a sub will perfrom well when give 33% less power then what its rated at and will perform best when given 33% more power then what its rated at.. so with +/- 33% of rated power will assure good performance. ( this is also relative to the kind of enclosure used )
right enclosure and proper sound damping will donate a lot to good , loud and quality bass.
Victor..
lionheart8305 on 03/8/2006 03:27:04
Whats the best sound deadener out there ?
Is the spray deadener or the mats better ? is fat mat any good ?
Whats the best sub box for my 12 " p2 rockfords ????... Also whats the best box for the polk momos 12 " mm2124's ???
Victor on 03/8/2006 06:43:29
Personally I have not found a major difference in the results between the spray and mats....Depends a lot on what area you are willing to sound damp, if its more of a flatter surface then using mats is easier and faster ,.while there are some corners of the car where it is practically imposible to get your hand in to place the mats, here using the spray or the paint becomes much easier,
Working with mats is a neat and clean process, while the paint or spray could get messy if you cant handle it well.
I have used many out there in the market and for mats have found the "Rammat" much better in terms of Price/Performance ratio.
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
http://www.raamaudio.com/
I have liked using the paint from e-designs, its called the "e-dead V3".
http://edesignaudio.com/category.php?type=damp
Have never really used many sprays , just used one by 3M, and it was very effective but equally pricey stuff,.
Also for Vibration Damping i would prefer the paint or the spray, cause it takes the shape of the metal moulds and when sprayed evenly reinforces the metal sheets to a great extent and checks over the vibrations.
Where as for sound damping purpose, the mats I feel are more effective cause they affect the reflective-absorbtive properties of the interiors of a car.
Both vibration and sound damping are closely related , but understanding the difference between the two is very important.
But generally either the mat/spray/paint will address both the sound as well as vibration damping in different ratio's.
Along with the damping properties the sprays and paint have an anti-corrosive agent which will also help keep the metal body or your car rust free.
There are pro's and con's to each of these materials, The selection depends on your application, budget, ease of installation, and personal choice.
Hope this helps..SMILE
Victor...
P.s. this is for a single Polk mm2124 http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/subbox/subbox_plan.php?id=55&mesurements=standard
for two subs you simply double the volume of the box. and add another similar port with a bracing inbetween both the subs.
these for rockford.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/enclosure/RFTECH_enclosure_v2002.pdf
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/scripts/rightnow.cfg/php.exe/enduser/fattach_get.php?p_sid=JkxVZX1i&p_tbl=9&p_id=273&p_created=1083013966
But in both the cases a ported/vented/slot enclosure is recommended for your choice of bass.
lionheart8305 on 03/9/2006 05:45:15
well victor i appreciate all your info ,,
is dynomat any good thats easy for me to get , or should i search for a different mat such as fat mat or rammat ?
Victor on 03/9/2006 06:10:23
Dynamat is definitely good, but expensive too...fatmat, e-dead or Rammat will be equally effective and at a much cheaper price.
Ordering directly from the company is also easy, and all these companies can ship you the minimal amount without an issue.
here are the company websites,
http://www.fatmat.com/
http://www.b-quiet.com/
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?_scb=1
http://www.dynamat.com/
http://www.raamaudio.com/
http://www.cascadeaudio.com/aut.html
http://www.edesignaudio.com/category.php?type=damp&cur=USD
All of them will have sales reps who can help you with the payment and shipping procedures.
All of the above mentioned will perform well, its just a matter of pricing and how easily they are accessible to you.
Victor...
swez on 03/9/2006 09:41:09
Well done Victor! Which offerings noted are best for vertical surfaces?
The asphalt based matting is fine for floors and horizontal surfaces. However, the rubberized matting had better adhesion and will not delaminate on vertical (doors and side panels) or inverted horizontal applications. (roof & trunk lids)
Swez
Victor on 03/9/2006 10:09:33
The best adhesions I have found on vertical surfaces are 3M and Dynamat rubber (vinyl / butyl ) based mats, but they are as costly as titanium..
Among the decently priced are the rammat, e-dead , fatmat, and B-quiet. These are all rubberized mats too,
Altho I have not found a major issue with using Asphalt based products on vertical surfaces but the only problem i found with asphalt is the almost permanent foul smell it gives to the interiors of the car.
this one i have not used, but seems to be a nice combo of rubber & asphalt, ... the asphalt gives the mat good amount of weight where as the rubber insures good linking and bonding..
http://www.sounddeadeningmaterial.com/whatisit.html
I guess. ultimately all of them are not too far apart on the number line, like I said, its just a matter of pricing and how easily they are accessible to you.
Victor...
lionheart8305 on 03/9/2006 17:32:15
well thank you guys ,,, how much will i need ?
like is one package enough for a large chevy impala truck ?
i think i might need alot but yall would know best
Victor on 03/9/2006 17:55:05
well, I would not suggest buying door or trunk kits, they turn up to be expensive compared to buying in loose bulk..
All you would need with that kind of a setup is doing up the trunk and doors.. A 50sq.ft package would do the trick.. I dont see a need for you to do the floor, cause you donot have a very powerful system that could really blow it off.. Well i am not saying it wont help, ofcourse it will make a difference but I dont see a real need for you to spend money doing up the floor,
well if you are planning to upgrade with a more powerful system in future then it would be advisable to do it all along now.
In case you decide to do up the floor too then 90-100sqft would be enough.
Victor...
swez on 03/9/2006 21:24:53
Check out e-bay while you look . A buddy of mine got a great buy on Dynamat in bulk roll for about $60.00. Don't recall the dimensions he bought. But it was enough to do his Lumina sedan.
Swez
lionheart8305 on 03/10/2006 06:55:23
whats a good website 2 buy 12" jls w3 ? will those hit really loud with my rockfords ?
Victor on 03/10/2006 09:59:53
Why is it that you want 2 subs???? That is one thing i cannot understand.. cause most of us experienced installers here have experienced that a single more powerful sub is better most of the times then using 2 subs.
Also it depends a lot on how much your budget is, in the beginning of this post you said that you wanna have "loud bass at cheap cheap price" and JL's aint gonna be that cheap...
When asked on CK, "Will those subs hit hard?"....... The most widely given reply is "Depends on who's throwing them at you"
Many many brands out there make good subwoofers, selection of a sub, depends on various factors,
Intended application, Space available, Power Available, Kind of music one listens, Installation ease, and last but not the least money intended to spend.
For everyday use a decent Sub in the range of 300 to 600wrms with a matching amp and enclosure is loud enough.
I remember scott, swez, Mr.B, compvr and many more golds and other experienced installers saying this " In car audio selection of product is just 10%, rest of the 90% is installation", so it wont matter a lot if you select a sub from any reputed brand, its just that the installation has to be upto the mark to get desired results..
We also have a gold on CK who has his id "less is more spl" and he is one of the most learned and experienced installer on CK, tho he is not around a lot, but i guess his id say's it all.
Victor..
i am saying this so that you dont keep on confusing yourself with soooo many good-better-best brands out there.
If I were to make up a system in cheap price, I would keep it limited to a single 500 -600wrms 12" DVC sub ( from any reputed manufacturer ) that can be wired to 2 ohms in a sealed or ported enclosure with the RF 6001p amp you got.
That is what most of the experienced and sensible guys on CK or for that matter on any forum would suggest.
Replies (39)
Victor on 03/6/2006 08:22:41
Dont most of us out here want Loud and clean Bass.??
How do u define cheap price.... ???What is your budget???
What exactly are u looking to buy?? setup?? tweak??
What makes the rest of your audio system?? Amps??Subs??Speakers??HU?? etc....
Give some detailed info so that we could help.
Victor...
MrBrownstone on 03/6/2006 10:45:41
Loud & cheap is like a hot girlfriend who isn't needy or is low maintenance---it's a unicorn.
lionheart8305 on 03/6/2006 15:50:13
ok i have two p2 rockfords subs and a 900 watt p3001 amp along with a alpine 360 watt amp that i had my buddy combine 2 power the subs i already have i have infinity ref. 6/9 "s and the same for the door speakers i have a pioneer cd deck im not sure what model butttt im working with about 600 dollars and i also have the p 6001 rockford amp that i plan 2 hook up 2 what ever speakers i get i dunno tho ,, is there some magical brand that is cheap and hits very loud and clear lol umm what else also would it sound good 2 mix the p2 subs i already have along with whatever subs i get ,, im thinkin that will just increase the bass help me out lol
compvr15s on 03/6/2006 16:06:39
mix matching subs usually isnt that great, unless you stick with one brand and series, like JL audio W3s lets say, with 2 10s and a 12 or a combo like that you can get great results, but when mixing brands its hard to say what the results will be, cuz the woofers are made differently... only problem i see here is your amping power, you have a 300watt rms and a 150watt rms mono amp, and then whatever the alpine amp is... is it possible for you to maybe return these amps or sell them and try to use that money towards your budget.. bumping up to a 600 watt amp here will probably help you on your quest for more bass. with 600 watts and a single 12inch sub and a ported box you can get mind blowing bass, and probably even stay under the 600 dollars right now. but why have 3 exrta amps laying around, unless they are not class d amps, then you can use 1 of them to run your interior speakers to give them a lil booste, only if they are aftermarket speaks tho, amping factory speakers will get you nowhere, just blow them in short time more than likely.... but if that sounds like a plan, look for a solid 600 watt amp from a reputable manufature, alpine, mtx, kicker, RF, hifonics. something like that prolly between 200-350 dollars.... the subs you mention seem to be a modest entry level sub, but probably dont pound out that much bass. how many subs do you want, you get make 1 sub with proper install sound like 2-3 subs, its all in the install 10% product 90% install... who knows maybe we can bring the subs you have to life, just need proper tuning or different box here... wait for some of the other here to post, dont go out and do anything just yet, we will get something worked out for ya tho, just be patient
ttocs on 03/6/2006 16:33:41
I can't understand what you have or want, as it is all thrown together in one sentence.
Victor on 03/6/2006 16:48:24
hey compvr.. wassup dude, what did u decide with the enclosure thing we talked about over a conference with swez...
compvr15s on 03/6/2006 16:51:29
actully me and the old lady split up so i havent done anything yet, hopefully we will come to terms and get things figured out and back together, but im thinkin the 2 10s in the wedge box will probably be how i go.
Victor on 03/6/2006 16:59:16
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=19&item_id=96761&locale=en_US
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=4&series_id=31&family_id=10&item_id=91809&locale=en_US
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=19&item_id=91949&locale=en_US
are these the amps and subs you have???
Victor on 03/6/2006 17:01:31
i am on yahoo.. care to chat in real time??
compvr15s on 03/6/2006 17:08:26
my bad on the amp suggestion, for some reason i didnt check FR for the amps and found the wrong specs, so you are already hafl way there, just configuring the amps for the subs you choose is probably all you will face now, and the type of enclosure you want to use.
Ash on 03/6/2006 18:25:58
Loud and Clean? Perhaps you should get some maids inside your trunk to beat against the sheet metal and scream & holler. GRIN
Seriously though, to get it loud and clean at the same time can mean different things to different people. It can also be expensive as well depending on what you consider loud. Louder than stock or louder than your neighbors boomin system? Clean as in you don't hear your trunk rattling or clean as in you can discern every instrument with a smooth tonal balance abroad?
There are a plethora of viable products on the market that could eat up 600 bucks, but to plan ahead to stretch them "bones" and get the right setup will be far worth it in the end.
What exactly are your tastes (the best you can explain) in volume, music, and tonal qualities of how you would like it to sound? Try to break each topic down to paragraphs so we can better understand and give you the help you need.
swez on 03/6/2006 22:17:51
Indeed! Like he said... I can't make heads or tail of all the jumbled up words.
Swez COFFEE
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 03:40:45
Ok for all you who cannot fully understand me , i have a 900 watt rockford amp. i also have a 360 watt alpine amp i have them crossedover i believe thats what you call it .
I also have two 12 inch p2 subs that i have hooked up to the amps i mentioned .i have a pioneer cd deck, and as far as the 6/9's and the door speakers i have infinity reference . all of this is hooked up already .
The subs are a little bit distorted . i believe this is due to having them installed by a friend . dont get me wrong there decent. just i am a person who likes loud bass. the kind thats not mistaken for any others ,so far i have not got there .
I just found out today my sister bought me two 12 inch pheonix gold rsd12d subs . Are they any good ???? can i add them to my rockfords?????
I want a loud deep thumpping bass not the truck rattling bass i have as of now what do i do ?????
Um well i guess thats it hope you understand sentence structure lol
Victor on 03/7/2006 04:00:28
hey lion, i had mentioned a few links, can you tel me if those are the subs and amp you got....
Victor...
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 04:33:00
yes they are the amps and subs i have altho the p 6001 the more powerful amp may be broke not sure .. i also have a 360 watt 4 channel alpine amp
Victor on 03/7/2006 04:45:56
ok, well if the p6001 is in working condition, then i guess u dont need new amps or new subs, you just need a new enclosure for those subs...
600wrms to 2 x 200wrms subs, in a tuned 4th order bandpass can give you excellent loudness you are looking for, and that too for the cheapest possible price.
Victor...
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 05:02:20
whats a 4 order bandpass ? and are the pheonix gold 12 inch rsd12d any good since i have them already and can i combine them with the rockfords ?
Victor on 03/7/2006 06:54:11
These PG are decent subs, but,
each one u mentioned is a 500wrms sub and a 4ohm dvc...
i would suggest using just one to its full potential instead of both of them and this could be pretty loud for regular listening too.
combining this with another Pg sub u got or with the RF's would not be advised as it will be of no audible difference except added distortion.
So as per my view, the RFp6001 @ 2ohms - 600wrms with a Pg rsd12d -500wrms wired parallel @ 2ohms in a ported enclosure tuned at around 35hz is the best way to go.
Victor..
Ps. here is a brief explanation about various enclosure types.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t18
this one has various formulaes on designing different kinds of enclosures.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t22
here are the do's and dont's while building an enclosure.
http://www.clubknowledge.com/Car_Audio_FAQ/?t26
hope this helps...
P.s.s . Also if you wanna stop those rattles,. u gotta spend a bit on Sound deadening the trunk and the doors. will help reduce the rattling even eleminate it completely if done properly,. also will enhance the bass greatly.
there are many cheap options available on the internet, i dont have the link, but Swez has found some spray which is used in NASA space crafts for sound and vibration damping and is very cheap compared to other options on the internet,.. may be he cud put that link up for u..
swez on 03/7/2006 11:12:03
This came off e-bay. You may wish to contact the seller and see if you can obtain this product via his contacts:
http://cgi.ebay.com/SPRAY-DEADENER-damping-Undercoating-undercoat-dynamat_W0QQitemZ5864786980QQcategoryZ67760QQcmdZViewItem
Swez
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 15:30:02
Ok so the pheonix golds are justttt ok should i try 2 return them 2 crutchfield and get a different pair ? If so the total of the subs are 300 $
soo i would have 2 find a similair pair .. i saw these kenwoods that are pushing 1500 watts peak for the same price should i get those ?
does more watts mean more bass?
the link 2 the kenwoods is this:::::::::
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-wDil47pFfSt/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=113W3514
what should i do
Victor on 03/7/2006 15:32:27
do u have any real time chat messengers like yahoo, msn ..??
Victor on 03/7/2006 15:49:18
could you replace the PG rsd 12d with the single voice coil PG rsd12, if yes then you could use both the subs and wire them to the RF6001p amp for a total of 2 ohms load..
Ps. But if you are replacing them then there are many better options available for almost the same price..
if you could get in touch in real time, then it would be easier to help you out..
swez on 03/7/2006 16:15:43
Is this the sub amp you have now?
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/products/product_details.asp?cat_id=2&series_id=6&family_id=19&item_id=96761&locale=en_US
If yes, then Victor has brought you a good sub selection. A pair of these will do nicely.
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-JpBsU3gmSo5/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?i=218RSD12
Those Kenwoods are a good step up in power and efficiency over the older dB and Tornado models, but they are 4+4 DVC's too. You would need a 1 ohm stable Class D amp for these or the present PG's you mentioned earlier.
Swez
Victor on 03/7/2006 16:23:40
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWS1222
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=107MM2124
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=107DB124
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=500SWE1242
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=1081250W
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=236T4512
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=2065C12VR2
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=108K1247W
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-pZFo8ZNNnfS/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=520&I=218RSD12
you could pick up a pair from any of the above mentioned subs..
Victor..
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 17:34:25
thanks 4 all the info its really helping out . if yall wanna instant message me you can at :: excalibur8305 ;;;; my e mail is excalibur8305@aol.com ,,,, i think im gonna return them for the polk momos mentioned above or the infinity refff. are the kenwoods better than the polks?
Victor on 03/7/2006 17:43:47
I would personally wanna go with polk or alpine , over kenwood or infinity..
lionheart8305 on 03/7/2006 17:54:50
ok thx im ill do that ,, does more watts mean more bass ?
Victor on 03/7/2006 18:06:06
no , more watts on just the sub does not mean more bass...
When a sub is ginve the right amount of power it will perform well, a sub rated at 500wrms when given 200wrms will not perform at its best..
there has to be this just right combination for it to perform well..
Usually a sub will perfrom well when give 33% less power then what its rated at and will perform best when given 33% more power then what its rated at.. so with +/- 33% of rated power will assure good performance. ( this is also relative to the kind of enclosure used )
right enclosure and proper sound damping will donate a lot to good , loud and quality bass.
Victor..
lionheart8305 on 03/8/2006 03:27:04
Whats the best sound deadener out there ?
Is the spray deadener or the mats better ? is fat mat any good ?
Whats the best sub box for my 12 " p2 rockfords ????... Also whats the best box for the polk momos 12 " mm2124's ???
Victor on 03/8/2006 06:43:29
Personally I have not found a major difference in the results between the spray and mats....Depends a lot on what area you are willing to sound damp, if its more of a flatter surface then using mats is easier and faster ,.while there are some corners of the car where it is practically imposible to get your hand in to place the mats, here using the spray or the paint becomes much easier,
Working with mats is a neat and clean process, while the paint or spray could get messy if you cant handle it well.
I have used many out there in the market and for mats have found the "Rammat" much better in terms of Price/Performance ratio.
http://www.sounddeadenershowdown.com/
http://www.raamaudio.com/
I have liked using the paint from e-designs, its called the "e-dead V3".
http://edesignaudio.com/category.php?type=damp
Have never really used many sprays , just used one by 3M, and it was very effective but equally pricey stuff,.
Also for Vibration Damping i would prefer the paint or the spray, cause it takes the shape of the metal moulds and when sprayed evenly reinforces the metal sheets to a great extent and checks over the vibrations.
Where as for sound damping purpose, the mats I feel are more effective cause they affect the reflective-absorbtive properties of the interiors of a car.
Both vibration and sound damping are closely related , but understanding the difference between the two is very important.
But generally either the mat/spray/paint will address both the sound as well as vibration damping in different ratio's.
Along with the damping properties the sprays and paint have an anti-corrosive agent which will also help keep the metal body or your car rust free.
There are pro's and con's to each of these materials, The selection depends on your application, budget, ease of installation, and personal choice.
Hope this helps..SMILE
Victor...
P.s. this is for a single Polk mm2124 http://www.polkaudio.com/caraudio/subbox/subbox_plan.php?id=55&mesurements=standard
for two subs you simply double the volume of the box. and add another similar port with a bracing inbetween both the subs.
these for rockford.
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/rftech/enclosure/RFTECH_enclosure_v2002.pdf
http://www.rockfordfosgate.com/scripts/rightnow.cfg/php.exe/enduser/fattach_get.php?p_sid=JkxVZX1i&p_tbl=9&p_id=273&p_created=1083013966
But in both the cases a ported/vented/slot enclosure is recommended for your choice of bass.
lionheart8305 on 03/9/2006 05:45:15
well victor i appreciate all your info ,,
is dynomat any good thats easy for me to get , or should i search for a different mat such as fat mat or rammat ?
Victor on 03/9/2006 06:10:23
Dynamat is definitely good, but expensive too...fatmat, e-dead or Rammat will be equally effective and at a much cheaper price.
Ordering directly from the company is also easy, and all these companies can ship you the minimal amount without an issue.
here are the company websites,
http://www.fatmat.com/
http://www.b-quiet.com/
http://www.secondskinaudio.com/cgi-bin/index.cgi?_scb=1
http://www.dynamat.com/
http://www.raamaudio.com/
http://www.cascadeaudio.com/aut.html
http://www.edesignaudio.com/category.php?type=damp&cur=USD
All of them will have sales reps who can help you with the payment and shipping procedures.
All of the above mentioned will perform well, its just a matter of pricing and how easily they are accessible to you.
Victor...
swez on 03/9/2006 09:41:09
Well done Victor! Which offerings noted are best for vertical surfaces?
The asphalt based matting is fine for floors and horizontal surfaces. However, the rubberized matting had better adhesion and will not delaminate on vertical (doors and side panels) or inverted horizontal applications. (roof & trunk lids)
Swez
Victor on 03/9/2006 10:09:33
The best adhesions I have found on vertical surfaces are 3M and Dynamat rubber (vinyl / butyl ) based mats, but they are as costly as titanium..
Among the decently priced are the rammat, e-dead , fatmat, and B-quiet. These are all rubberized mats too,
Altho I have not found a major issue with using Asphalt based products on vertical surfaces but the only problem i found with asphalt is the almost permanent foul smell it gives to the interiors of the car.
this one i have not used, but seems to be a nice combo of rubber & asphalt, ... the asphalt gives the mat good amount of weight where as the rubber insures good linking and bonding..
http://www.sounddeadeningmaterial.com/whatisit.html
I guess. ultimately all of them are not too far apart on the number line, like I said, its just a matter of pricing and how easily they are accessible to you.
Victor...
lionheart8305 on 03/9/2006 17:32:15
well thank you guys ,,, how much will i need ?
like is one package enough for a large chevy impala truck ?
i think i might need alot but yall would know best
Victor on 03/9/2006 17:55:05
well, I would not suggest buying door or trunk kits, they turn up to be expensive compared to buying in loose bulk..
All you would need with that kind of a setup is doing up the trunk and doors.. A 50sq.ft package would do the trick.. I dont see a need for you to do the floor, cause you donot have a very powerful system that could really blow it off.. Well i am not saying it wont help, ofcourse it will make a difference but I dont see a real need for you to spend money doing up the floor,
well if you are planning to upgrade with a more powerful system in future then it would be advisable to do it all along now.
In case you decide to do up the floor too then 90-100sqft would be enough.
Victor...
swez on 03/9/2006 21:24:53
Check out e-bay while you look . A buddy of mine got a great buy on Dynamat in bulk roll for about $60.00. Don't recall the dimensions he bought. But it was enough to do his Lumina sedan.
Swez
lionheart8305 on 03/10/2006 06:55:23
whats a good website 2 buy 12" jls w3 ? will those hit really loud with my rockfords ?
Victor on 03/10/2006 09:59:53
Why is it that you want 2 subs???? That is one thing i cannot understand.. cause most of us experienced installers here have experienced that a single more powerful sub is better most of the times then using 2 subs.
Also it depends a lot on how much your budget is, in the beginning of this post you said that you wanna have "loud bass at cheap cheap price" and JL's aint gonna be that cheap...
When asked on CK, "Will those subs hit hard?"....... The most widely given reply is "Depends on who's throwing them at you"
Many many brands out there make good subwoofers, selection of a sub, depends on various factors,
Intended application, Space available, Power Available, Kind of music one listens, Installation ease, and last but not the least money intended to spend.
For everyday use a decent Sub in the range of 300 to 600wrms with a matching amp and enclosure is loud enough.
I remember scott, swez, Mr.B, compvr and many more golds and other experienced installers saying this " In car audio selection of product is just 10%, rest of the 90% is installation", so it wont matter a lot if you select a sub from any reputed brand, its just that the installation has to be upto the mark to get desired results..
We also have a gold on CK who has his id "less is more spl" and he is one of the most learned and experienced installer on CK, tho he is not around a lot, but i guess his id say's it all.
Victor..
i am saying this so that you dont keep on confusing yourself with soooo many good-better-best brands out there.
If I were to make up a system in cheap price, I would keep it limited to a single 500 -600wrms 12" DVC sub ( from any reputed manufacturer ) that can be wired to 2 ohms in a sealed or ported enclosure with the RF 6001p amp you got.
That is what most of the experienced and sensible guys on CK or for that matter on any forum would suggest.
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