Hey guys,
I need some trouble shooting help with my newly installed system. I have a Jl Audio 500/1 amp powering 1 Kicker 06SL10 sub in a custom sealed box, 1 JL Audio 300/2 powering I set A/D/S 6.5 2 way comp spks. Amp kit JL Audio XAPCS42 4 guage. My system has been shutting down completely when high volume applied. The system produces no sound what so ever when in shut down. My battery is 550 CCA with stock alternator. After random periods of time my system regains sound. Can anyone help?
Replies (13)
swez on 02/22/2006 22:58:39
1. Very modest/inadequate CCA rated stock BAT
2. What is amperage rating on ALT? (idle and @ 2500 RPM)
3. Have you tried a larger CCA BAT? (800 CCA or more?)
4. Big 3 upgrade done yet?
5. Measure voltage at amps when they shut off... (if less than 10.5 volts, the amps will shut off and go protect mode)
Swez
demetman on 02/22/2006 23:43:39
I have not been able to determine amperage on alt yet. My buddy needs to see the vin # to look it up.
My buddy is a mechanic and is going to change engine comp wiring(BIG 3) with me on Mon. He has been fixing cars for 30 years with his own business and never heard of a BIG 3 upgrade. I guess I educated him on the subject with a print out from sound domain. He can get me a Optima D34 for $125.00 which I plan on putting in with the BIG 3 upgrade. Is it safe to upgtade BIG 3 and battery at the same time.(I asked this question under BIG 3 topic) Do you think these upgrades will solve the shut down problem? How do I measure voltage at amps when they shut off? Thanks for reply Swez!
swez on 02/23/2006 05:52:07
Have your buddy do the "Big 3" and use a #4 gage wire kit for same.
Measure the voltage at amplifiers before the "Big 3" and then after the install and BAT are done. Do this with the same conditions... Ie: the amps are shutting down.
Here's how... Start your car, turn on the headlights, fogs, heater/AC and rear window defogger, along with your audio gear at typical listening levels. to minimize annoying neighbors, flip the subs so they are now firing into a few thick blankets or some large pillows. (The idea is to muffle the bass as much as possible. You may wish to cover up your interior speakers to muffle them as well. (Your neighbors will appreciate this and you can work better w/o high SPL levels going on)
1. Get a DC voltmeter and measure voltage at the BAT terminals, when the amps start shutting down (record you readings)
2. Read voltage at the amp terminals (B+ and ground) Again, record your results
3. Install your Big 3 and the new BAT and repeat steps 1 & 2, after the BAT has been charging for about 30 mins, off the ALT, as the car is running and all major systems are off (Headlights, heater/AC, window defogger circuits, etc. Now, take voltage readings again, with your normal systems on and audio gear playing too.
The payoff will be seen in the voltage readings at the BAT and amps. Voltage numbers consistantly above 12.5 volts, should keep everything running. Once the voltage readings drop below ~11.5 volts, the amps may present high distortion values and low power output or shut off entirely.
Here's a very good tuitorial for any who wish to know about the electrical system in a vehicle. The link below, is focused on the ALT. However, there are links to BAT's too.
http://misterfixit.com/alterntr.htm
The stock ALT for a 2000 series Dodge Ram PU truck is about 117A. peak, @ 2500 RPM. (V-8 & V-6 models) The 2003-04 are 136A Nippon-Denso products. (the Japanese make good ALT's)
Finally, what you may find here, it the BAT is on its way out the door. We can generally expect 3-5 years of reliable service from a decent OEM BAT. If this is the original BAT for that vehicle, it's pretty well served its purpose. Even if the BAT is only 1-2 years old now, it still could have problems along the line.
Read this one... it's a great story about a simple backyard mechanic with lots of experience VS a repair shop that only does swaps and doen't use diagnostics proptocals.
http://misterfixit.com/dedbatt.htm
Happy reading, SMILE
Swez
ttocs on 02/23/2006 10:33:24
the deck shuts down too?
demetman on 02/23/2006 20:13:35
No, the deck doesn't shut down just the amps. I bought a cheepie DC voltmeter today from Pep Boys and tested my battery today. This Voltmeter doesn't show exact volts just a shortage light. It can be used for alternator as well. Results were battery below 12 volts shortage light illuminated. When I tested alternator with engine running there was no shortage recorded. I will let you know the results of my engine comp wiring upgrade and new Optima D/34 install on Mon. Thanks for the info. PS I thoroughly enjoy the ltutorial links you provided. Now I can see how important it is to understand ALL aspects of car audio to do things right.
swez on 02/24/2006 12:10:04
It sounds like you have electrical supply issues here. The tester used is OK, but not adequate enough to give reliable voltage info for full diagnostics. A cheap multi-meter with AC/DC volts and ohm reader would be much more useful, both now and later.
It's hard to say without full diagnostics, what the main problem is here. Once you have the new BAT installed, it would be wise to have the ALT checked for output. It should read about 14+ volts at start up, then drop gradually back to high 13.? volts, after the BAT is fully charged. Most parts stores can test it for you for free, right in the parking lot.
If not, you may have lost 1 field in the ALT. That will cut ALT supply voltage and current by ~33%. You may need to check the DC voltage coming out of the B+ terminal on the ALT as well. If that reads notably higher than at the Pos side of the BAT, that power wire may be shot as well. Use a meter to test both locations. (The RED probe on B+/BAT Pos, the black probe to ground on engine or BAT Neg)
Good luck,
Swez
demetman on 02/25/2006 00:30:25
Swez,
As I Mentioned, on Mon Morning I will be tacking by truck to my friends auto body repair shop for "BIG 3" wiring upgrade, new Optima D/34 battery and a couple of new tires. This getleman is an extremely knowlegable mechanic, but lacks the experience with car audio systems. He has all the necessary equipment to diagnose any problem I may have. I am the type of person who needs to have things running at peak and optimum conditions. I don't mind spending the money to fix current problems and even prevent any problems from occuring. I am leaning towards just going ahead and upgrading my alternator to a higher output product. I found a high output alternator from motorcityman rated at 160 amps built to fit in my Dodge Dakota.($179.00) My current concern is figuring out what alternator amperage output will be best suited for my system. Can you assist me in figuring out what will be best for my electrical system and keep my amps running at peak performance? Money is not a huge concern here.(tax returns due any day now) All your help and input is greatly appreciated.
swez on 02/25/2006 04:38:52
OK, the 500/1 should be fused at 50A. The 300/2, needs a 40A fuse. This is the max power draw these amps will ever reach under full power. That leaves you over 70A's to run the rest of the truck.
In most cases, this should be adequate for all but the most tricked out of trucks. If you have lots of outboard lighting add ons for off road use, just dial back on your audio gear, when running heavy duty lighting systems.
Motorcityreman has been recommended on CK as a good source for affordable HO ALT's. You should be good to go here. The idle speed power is almost 80A's and a max of 160A's at about 2500 RPM.
Finally, I am tempted to suggest a #2 gage kit for your "Big 3" upgrade. Yes, it's a bit over kill, but with that large of an ALT, you'll get no voltage losses under the hood.
Good luck and report back how things went after the work is completed OK? It sounds like you are in good hands with this mechanic fellow. Too many practice bad medicine under the hood and the car owner pays the tab.
Swez COFFEE
ttocs on 02/25/2006 19:36:43
its not overkill its head room.............
Let us know what happens.
demetman on 02/27/2006 20:02:07
Ok, a problem has been detected. My mechanic had my truck today for new tires, BIG 3 upgrade and Optima yellow top bat. My current battery is in good shape. Alternator bad shape, putting out on 40 amps. So this is why my system is shutting down. We determined that a 180 amp alternator is best suited here, so BIG 3 and Optima did not go in today. The hard part is finding a 180 amp alternator. No sources from my mechanic. Motorcityreman has a 160 which will be my back up plan if I can't find 180 amp. I will report back in the near future when all has been tacken care of.
swez on 02/27/2006 22:55:27
Honest, a 160A ALT is adequate as most peeps don't run every electrical deivice in the car at full power, all the time. If you chech with MCR, they can probably do a 180-200A ALT for you. It may cost more, but if that's what you want... they can probably make it for you.
Swez
demetman on 03/8/2006 18:42:29
Ok swez,
This project is done! This morning the 160 amp Alt went in as well as a D34/78 Optima and all new 2ag engine comp wires. We fused the alt to battery wire externally with a 150amp fuse and seems to be doing well. Sound is definately noticabely better. The alt and battery were tested for output and all checked ok. Thanks for all your help.
demet
swez on 03/8/2006 20:05:29
You bet! Glad all is working as it should and enjoy the whole enchilada too. Come back as needed, for other related car audio tips and tweaks.
Swez
PS This is site fund raising time. We are trying to build our site balance to carry us through and remain finacially viable through 2006. If you can, feel free to click on our "donation" button and put some "cake" in the kitty. (as you see fit) Thanks in advance and good luck! CLAP
I need some trouble shooting help with my newly installed system. I have a Jl Audio 500/1 amp powering 1 Kicker 06SL10 sub in a custom sealed box, 1 JL Audio 300/2 powering I set A/D/S 6.5 2 way comp spks. Amp kit JL Audio XAPCS42 4 guage. My system has been shutting down completely when high volume applied. The system produces no sound what so ever when in shut down. My battery is 550 CCA with stock alternator. After random periods of time my system regains sound. Can anyone help?
Replies (13)
swez on 02/22/2006 22:58:39
1. Very modest/inadequate CCA rated stock BAT
2. What is amperage rating on ALT? (idle and @ 2500 RPM)
3. Have you tried a larger CCA BAT? (800 CCA or more?)
4. Big 3 upgrade done yet?
5. Measure voltage at amps when they shut off... (if less than 10.5 volts, the amps will shut off and go protect mode)
Swez
demetman on 02/22/2006 23:43:39
I have not been able to determine amperage on alt yet. My buddy needs to see the vin # to look it up.
My buddy is a mechanic and is going to change engine comp wiring(BIG 3) with me on Mon. He has been fixing cars for 30 years with his own business and never heard of a BIG 3 upgrade. I guess I educated him on the subject with a print out from sound domain. He can get me a Optima D34 for $125.00 which I plan on putting in with the BIG 3 upgrade. Is it safe to upgtade BIG 3 and battery at the same time.(I asked this question under BIG 3 topic) Do you think these upgrades will solve the shut down problem? How do I measure voltage at amps when they shut off? Thanks for reply Swez!
swez on 02/23/2006 05:52:07
Have your buddy do the "Big 3" and use a #4 gage wire kit for same.
Measure the voltage at amplifiers before the "Big 3" and then after the install and BAT are done. Do this with the same conditions... Ie: the amps are shutting down.
Here's how... Start your car, turn on the headlights, fogs, heater/AC and rear window defogger, along with your audio gear at typical listening levels. to minimize annoying neighbors, flip the subs so they are now firing into a few thick blankets or some large pillows. (The idea is to muffle the bass as much as possible. You may wish to cover up your interior speakers to muffle them as well. (Your neighbors will appreciate this and you can work better w/o high SPL levels going on)
1. Get a DC voltmeter and measure voltage at the BAT terminals, when the amps start shutting down (record you readings)
2. Read voltage at the amp terminals (B+ and ground) Again, record your results
3. Install your Big 3 and the new BAT and repeat steps 1 & 2, after the BAT has been charging for about 30 mins, off the ALT, as the car is running and all major systems are off (Headlights, heater/AC, window defogger circuits, etc. Now, take voltage readings again, with your normal systems on and audio gear playing too.
The payoff will be seen in the voltage readings at the BAT and amps. Voltage numbers consistantly above 12.5 volts, should keep everything running. Once the voltage readings drop below ~11.5 volts, the amps may present high distortion values and low power output or shut off entirely.
Here's a very good tuitorial for any who wish to know about the electrical system in a vehicle. The link below, is focused on the ALT. However, there are links to BAT's too.
http://misterfixit.com/alterntr.htm
The stock ALT for a 2000 series Dodge Ram PU truck is about 117A. peak, @ 2500 RPM. (V-8 & V-6 models) The 2003-04 are 136A Nippon-Denso products. (the Japanese make good ALT's)
Finally, what you may find here, it the BAT is on its way out the door. We can generally expect 3-5 years of reliable service from a decent OEM BAT. If this is the original BAT for that vehicle, it's pretty well served its purpose. Even if the BAT is only 1-2 years old now, it still could have problems along the line.
Read this one... it's a great story about a simple backyard mechanic with lots of experience VS a repair shop that only does swaps and doen't use diagnostics proptocals.
http://misterfixit.com/dedbatt.htm
Happy reading, SMILE
Swez
ttocs on 02/23/2006 10:33:24
the deck shuts down too?
demetman on 02/23/2006 20:13:35
No, the deck doesn't shut down just the amps. I bought a cheepie DC voltmeter today from Pep Boys and tested my battery today. This Voltmeter doesn't show exact volts just a shortage light. It can be used for alternator as well. Results were battery below 12 volts shortage light illuminated. When I tested alternator with engine running there was no shortage recorded. I will let you know the results of my engine comp wiring upgrade and new Optima D/34 install on Mon. Thanks for the info. PS I thoroughly enjoy the ltutorial links you provided. Now I can see how important it is to understand ALL aspects of car audio to do things right.
swez on 02/24/2006 12:10:04
It sounds like you have electrical supply issues here. The tester used is OK, but not adequate enough to give reliable voltage info for full diagnostics. A cheap multi-meter with AC/DC volts and ohm reader would be much more useful, both now and later.
It's hard to say without full diagnostics, what the main problem is here. Once you have the new BAT installed, it would be wise to have the ALT checked for output. It should read about 14+ volts at start up, then drop gradually back to high 13.? volts, after the BAT is fully charged. Most parts stores can test it for you for free, right in the parking lot.
If not, you may have lost 1 field in the ALT. That will cut ALT supply voltage and current by ~33%. You may need to check the DC voltage coming out of the B+ terminal on the ALT as well. If that reads notably higher than at the Pos side of the BAT, that power wire may be shot as well. Use a meter to test both locations. (The RED probe on B+/BAT Pos, the black probe to ground on engine or BAT Neg)
Good luck,
Swez
demetman on 02/25/2006 00:30:25
Swez,
As I Mentioned, on Mon Morning I will be tacking by truck to my friends auto body repair shop for "BIG 3" wiring upgrade, new Optima D/34 battery and a couple of new tires. This getleman is an extremely knowlegable mechanic, but lacks the experience with car audio systems. He has all the necessary equipment to diagnose any problem I may have. I am the type of person who needs to have things running at peak and optimum conditions. I don't mind spending the money to fix current problems and even prevent any problems from occuring. I am leaning towards just going ahead and upgrading my alternator to a higher output product. I found a high output alternator from motorcityman rated at 160 amps built to fit in my Dodge Dakota.($179.00) My current concern is figuring out what alternator amperage output will be best suited for my system. Can you assist me in figuring out what will be best for my electrical system and keep my amps running at peak performance? Money is not a huge concern here.(tax returns due any day now) All your help and input is greatly appreciated.
swez on 02/25/2006 04:38:52
OK, the 500/1 should be fused at 50A. The 300/2, needs a 40A fuse. This is the max power draw these amps will ever reach under full power. That leaves you over 70A's to run the rest of the truck.
In most cases, this should be adequate for all but the most tricked out of trucks. If you have lots of outboard lighting add ons for off road use, just dial back on your audio gear, when running heavy duty lighting systems.
Motorcityreman has been recommended on CK as a good source for affordable HO ALT's. You should be good to go here. The idle speed power is almost 80A's and a max of 160A's at about 2500 RPM.
Finally, I am tempted to suggest a #2 gage kit for your "Big 3" upgrade. Yes, it's a bit over kill, but with that large of an ALT, you'll get no voltage losses under the hood.
Good luck and report back how things went after the work is completed OK? It sounds like you are in good hands with this mechanic fellow. Too many practice bad medicine under the hood and the car owner pays the tab.
Swez COFFEE
ttocs on 02/25/2006 19:36:43
its not overkill its head room.............
Let us know what happens.
demetman on 02/27/2006 20:02:07
Ok, a problem has been detected. My mechanic had my truck today for new tires, BIG 3 upgrade and Optima yellow top bat. My current battery is in good shape. Alternator bad shape, putting out on 40 amps. So this is why my system is shutting down. We determined that a 180 amp alternator is best suited here, so BIG 3 and Optima did not go in today. The hard part is finding a 180 amp alternator. No sources from my mechanic. Motorcityreman has a 160 which will be my back up plan if I can't find 180 amp. I will report back in the near future when all has been tacken care of.
swez on 02/27/2006 22:55:27
Honest, a 160A ALT is adequate as most peeps don't run every electrical deivice in the car at full power, all the time. If you chech with MCR, they can probably do a 180-200A ALT for you. It may cost more, but if that's what you want... they can probably make it for you.
Swez
demetman on 03/8/2006 18:42:29
Ok swez,
This project is done! This morning the 160 amp Alt went in as well as a D34/78 Optima and all new 2ag engine comp wires. We fused the alt to battery wire externally with a 150amp fuse and seems to be doing well. Sound is definately noticabely better. The alt and battery were tested for output and all checked ok. Thanks for all your help.
demet
swez on 03/8/2006 20:05:29
You bet! Glad all is working as it should and enjoy the whole enchilada too. Come back as needed, for other related car audio tips and tweaks.
Swez
PS This is site fund raising time. We are trying to build our site balance to carry us through and remain finacially viable through 2006. If you can, feel free to click on our "donation" button and put some "cake" in the kitty. (as you see fit) Thanks in advance and good luck! CLAP
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