A friend of mine experienced in Car Audio is helping me to build a box for my 2 12inch Infinity Kappa Perfects... its 1cube foot required airspace for a sealed box, i've decided to build it specific for mounting the subs Magnet out, and the box seems TINY!!!! like smaller than my old store-bought dual 10inch box!!!!! should i be worried about this? and is this normal? it seems to make sense, if i don't have to compensate for Magnet size, the box can be fairly small, but, idk... any comments?
Replies (21)
compvr15s on 02/19/2006 02:02:53
for 1cubic foot box the size should be pretty small, especiall if you dont need to factor the volume of the woofer... 12x12x12 inches would be the internal volume for each chamber, thats pretty small. when measuring make sure to factor in the width of the board, if you have 2 chambers make sure to subtract 2.25 inches, this will be left board, right board and middle board... assuming you are using .75 inch mdf.... if you have 2 12s and each chamber is 1 cubic foot your box will probably be very small... hope im reading this correct, good luck
newB on 02/19/2006 02:11:50
yeah man, the friend of mine helping me is a math wiz, and he calculated everything from board width, to saw width, so i think its going to be built pretty good... its acutally a trapazoid from the side, so the back forms to the contours of my rear seat, and the front brings the magnets up so they look better... i think it will be a badass box, i was just wondering cuz it looks WAY to small.... thanx
-Drew
swez on 02/19/2006 07:19:49
A 1.0 cf chamber is pretty small. I would offer to think twice about using magnet outside the chambers here.
FYI: The magnets are large and heavy on this sub and gravity/accelleration may tend to make the box flip over as well as offering no protection to the rear cones of each sub. A few good slaps, could damage the cone/voicecoil alignments and render the sub useless.
Welcome to CK,
Swez
Ash on 02/19/2006 07:56:47
Is it 1cft per sub or both? 1cft each set the sub/box Q around +.9 Qtc. This will sound rather robust, yet it still will have a very low f3 (39hz). If it is 1cft total, the there will be a 2.8db lift around 80hz. This will raise the f3 from the the lift to around 57hz and then a -f6 to 48hz.
The latter is not a good alternative. It would take a strong lo-pass filter to smooth out the hump The subs themselves should only eat up about .1cft each in a box, so unless you are wanting that bump in response I wouldn't try it. A 2cft box can be easily accomodated in almost any vehicle.
Victor on 02/19/2006 22:29:04
Yes, Why all this hassle when ideally what you should be doing is making a box as per specs mentioned here..
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/PERFECT12.pdf
Victor...
newB on 02/20/2006 04:36:30
1st off... my bad about the dirty language...
ok... i've brain-stormed several possibilites as far as bolting the box to the car, to stop it from sliding... and also have several possibilites for magnet protectors...
i'm running the small sealed because this is my weekend cruiser, but my dads daily work driver... hes Air Force and needs as much trunck space as possible...
-Drew
i'm not sure if this curve your talking about will be noticeable, but i hope not... **fingers crossed**
Victor on 02/20/2006 05:47:19
well, just think of this..u have these sub-magnets sticking out of the box, wont that occupy space and hinder wile puttin in the baggage...?? it is more sensible to build a box as per company specs and use it.
its easier, safer, simpler, more effective.
imagine the outline shape of a box with the magnets sticking out ,,, you will realise how inconvinient it is to put things around them, also whatever u use to protect the magnets will occupy space too..
i guess more then its utility, what u actually wanna do is show off the magnets, and try and be different from what others got in their trunks..
but its not worth it.
You may wanna give it a second thought..
Victor..
ttocs on 02/20/2006 07:48:58
yo, vic, you ok? no reason fer all that.....
Victor on 02/20/2006 07:58:28
i got ya scott, just made the edit... got a bit aggitated..
swez on 02/20/2006 10:37:40
I have to agree with Victor here too. The magnets outside the box will cut into the available cargo space in this vehicle.
Anything that is loose and not restrained, will inevitably be attracted to the magnets. That could lead to damaged subs or if your Dad packs electronic gear, the magnetic fields could be a problem for this as well.
Anyway, there are a few guys, throwing warning flags about this plan. If you do it as intended, there may be unintended consequences to deal with later. Better to yield to conventional wisdom and go with a sub-in-box design.
Swez
newB on 02/20/2006 15:07:16
ups... well sorry guys... i might re-think my plan, but idk, i got some ideas that may allow me to pull this off... sorry about the lack, of edit, i did not realize i could do that till just now...
thanx for the advice-
-Drew
compvr15s on 02/20/2006 15:56:02
well if you feel you can pull it off, go ahead, we are not here to tell you what you can and cant do, we are just expressing our concern for your equipment....but i do agree with them if you are trying to save space, putting the magnet outside will be adding probably 75% to the existing boxes depth, with it in side what you see is what you get, then alls you will need for protection is a set of grills.... if you want to show off the subs have you thought of maybe plexiglass with mirrors and maybe some neon lights... have seen so many exotic designs that show off the subs without the sub being mounted outside the box.... just a couple of ideas here. but by all means do what you want, but im sure if you come back and post later on that your sub is damaged(hole in cone or tinsle leads got ripped out) that nobody here is going to jump on the wagon and help you.... that may not be the case, this is nobodys job here, we do it for fun, and to help people, but can only lead the horse to water, know what i mean.... alot of these guys have many installs under their belts and know the pros and cons of just about anything, good luck tho in whatever you decide to do
swez on 02/21/2006 15:48:31
Thanks for the edits!
It is wise to keep expensive subs well protected from damage. The more a sub is exposed, the greater the potential for harm ans damage.
If you choose to mount the subs inside the box, (As we have suggested) plan on adding metal waffle grills too. This will prevent cone damage, but is acoutically transparent as well. A small thing, but well worth the cost and efforts.
Swez
newB on 02/21/2006 23:23:51
so... i know this looks REALLY bad... buy i know these subs are of good quality, but what are your opinions on the Inifinity Kappa Perfect 12.1??
-Drew
pigwiggle on 02/21/2006 23:32:35
I’ve got the Kappa Perfect 10.1 ; good sound quality. I chose it for the relatively small sealed enclosure (0.6 cu ft). It fits perfectly in the rim recess of my spare tire. The fiberglass was a hassle, but I get to keep the spare and it’s totally stealth.
newB on 02/21/2006 23:38:12
i'm leaning towards the SQ rather than SPL... but it wouldn't be a bad thing shaking some cars... so thats a postive reveiw on the kappa perfect line?
-Drew
pigwiggle on 02/22/2006 00:01:54
The 10.1, like the 12.1, is rated for 350W RMS. I’m giving mine around 280W RMS and it clips a bit soon. With the appropriate amp I think you will be pleased with the 12.1 . I’m very satisfied with the SQ of the 10.1. Good quality for the price.
Ash on 02/22/2006 18:33:48
If your going for SQ, then the larger box range will sound better. Con is you will need some good mids to go down to where the sub starts to fade out on the higher bass notes. Not hard to attain though, just some good tweaking with the x-over settings to get the right blend.
The Perfects are excellent SQ subs, just make sure you feed them with the proper, clean power and you should have no problems.
newB on 02/22/2006 19:41:35
koo beans...
-Drew
swez on 02/23/2006 06:36:38
When you complete the project and all is well and to your satisfaction, care to drop a few coins in the site donation chest?
Much appreciated bud, CLAP
Swez
Victor on 02/23/2006 15:58:53
yes please, if you find the help provided here useful , it would be appreciated if you help us raise some funds to maintian such a site..
We are already running on a low budget for this year, if we dont have enough funds i guess either the site goes off the internet or Walt would have to pay from his pocket... he has been doing a lot for the site and we would not want to burden him with raising funds too...
Thanks in advance..
Victor...
Ps. Swez and I are available on yahoo, msn or skype messengers so feel free to contact us incase u need some more advise , guidance or help.
Replies (21)
compvr15s on 02/19/2006 02:02:53
for 1cubic foot box the size should be pretty small, especiall if you dont need to factor the volume of the woofer... 12x12x12 inches would be the internal volume for each chamber, thats pretty small. when measuring make sure to factor in the width of the board, if you have 2 chambers make sure to subtract 2.25 inches, this will be left board, right board and middle board... assuming you are using .75 inch mdf.... if you have 2 12s and each chamber is 1 cubic foot your box will probably be very small... hope im reading this correct, good luck
newB on 02/19/2006 02:11:50
yeah man, the friend of mine helping me is a math wiz, and he calculated everything from board width, to saw width, so i think its going to be built pretty good... its acutally a trapazoid from the side, so the back forms to the contours of my rear seat, and the front brings the magnets up so they look better... i think it will be a badass box, i was just wondering cuz it looks WAY to small.... thanx
-Drew
swez on 02/19/2006 07:19:49
A 1.0 cf chamber is pretty small. I would offer to think twice about using magnet outside the chambers here.
FYI: The magnets are large and heavy on this sub and gravity/accelleration may tend to make the box flip over as well as offering no protection to the rear cones of each sub. A few good slaps, could damage the cone/voicecoil alignments and render the sub useless.
Welcome to CK,
Swez
Ash on 02/19/2006 07:56:47
Is it 1cft per sub or both? 1cft each set the sub/box Q around +.9 Qtc. This will sound rather robust, yet it still will have a very low f3 (39hz). If it is 1cft total, the there will be a 2.8db lift around 80hz. This will raise the f3 from the the lift to around 57hz and then a -f6 to 48hz.
The latter is not a good alternative. It would take a strong lo-pass filter to smooth out the hump The subs themselves should only eat up about .1cft each in a box, so unless you are wanting that bump in response I wouldn't try it. A 2cft box can be easily accomodated in almost any vehicle.
Victor on 02/19/2006 22:29:04
Yes, Why all this hassle when ideally what you should be doing is making a box as per specs mentioned here..
http://manuals.harman.com/INF/CAR/Boxes%20and%20Parameters/PERFECT12.pdf
Victor...
newB on 02/20/2006 04:36:30
1st off... my bad about the dirty language...
ok... i've brain-stormed several possibilites as far as bolting the box to the car, to stop it from sliding... and also have several possibilites for magnet protectors...
i'm running the small sealed because this is my weekend cruiser, but my dads daily work driver... hes Air Force and needs as much trunck space as possible...
-Drew
i'm not sure if this curve your talking about will be noticeable, but i hope not... **fingers crossed**
Victor on 02/20/2006 05:47:19
well, just think of this..u have these sub-magnets sticking out of the box, wont that occupy space and hinder wile puttin in the baggage...?? it is more sensible to build a box as per company specs and use it.
its easier, safer, simpler, more effective.
imagine the outline shape of a box with the magnets sticking out ,,, you will realise how inconvinient it is to put things around them, also whatever u use to protect the magnets will occupy space too..
i guess more then its utility, what u actually wanna do is show off the magnets, and try and be different from what others got in their trunks..
but its not worth it.
You may wanna give it a second thought..
Victor..
ttocs on 02/20/2006 07:48:58
yo, vic, you ok? no reason fer all that.....
Victor on 02/20/2006 07:58:28
i got ya scott, just made the edit... got a bit aggitated..
swez on 02/20/2006 10:37:40
I have to agree with Victor here too. The magnets outside the box will cut into the available cargo space in this vehicle.
Anything that is loose and not restrained, will inevitably be attracted to the magnets. That could lead to damaged subs or if your Dad packs electronic gear, the magnetic fields could be a problem for this as well.
Anyway, there are a few guys, throwing warning flags about this plan. If you do it as intended, there may be unintended consequences to deal with later. Better to yield to conventional wisdom and go with a sub-in-box design.
Swez
newB on 02/20/2006 15:07:16
ups... well sorry guys... i might re-think my plan, but idk, i got some ideas that may allow me to pull this off... sorry about the lack, of edit, i did not realize i could do that till just now...
thanx for the advice-
-Drew
compvr15s on 02/20/2006 15:56:02
well if you feel you can pull it off, go ahead, we are not here to tell you what you can and cant do, we are just expressing our concern for your equipment....but i do agree with them if you are trying to save space, putting the magnet outside will be adding probably 75% to the existing boxes depth, with it in side what you see is what you get, then alls you will need for protection is a set of grills.... if you want to show off the subs have you thought of maybe plexiglass with mirrors and maybe some neon lights... have seen so many exotic designs that show off the subs without the sub being mounted outside the box.... just a couple of ideas here. but by all means do what you want, but im sure if you come back and post later on that your sub is damaged(hole in cone or tinsle leads got ripped out) that nobody here is going to jump on the wagon and help you.... that may not be the case, this is nobodys job here, we do it for fun, and to help people, but can only lead the horse to water, know what i mean.... alot of these guys have many installs under their belts and know the pros and cons of just about anything, good luck tho in whatever you decide to do
swez on 02/21/2006 15:48:31
Thanks for the edits!
It is wise to keep expensive subs well protected from damage. The more a sub is exposed, the greater the potential for harm ans damage.
If you choose to mount the subs inside the box, (As we have suggested) plan on adding metal waffle grills too. This will prevent cone damage, but is acoutically transparent as well. A small thing, but well worth the cost and efforts.
Swez
newB on 02/21/2006 23:23:51
so... i know this looks REALLY bad... buy i know these subs are of good quality, but what are your opinions on the Inifinity Kappa Perfect 12.1??
-Drew
pigwiggle on 02/21/2006 23:32:35
I’ve got the Kappa Perfect 10.1 ; good sound quality. I chose it for the relatively small sealed enclosure (0.6 cu ft). It fits perfectly in the rim recess of my spare tire. The fiberglass was a hassle, but I get to keep the spare and it’s totally stealth.
newB on 02/21/2006 23:38:12
i'm leaning towards the SQ rather than SPL... but it wouldn't be a bad thing shaking some cars... so thats a postive reveiw on the kappa perfect line?
-Drew
pigwiggle on 02/22/2006 00:01:54
The 10.1, like the 12.1, is rated for 350W RMS. I’m giving mine around 280W RMS and it clips a bit soon. With the appropriate amp I think you will be pleased with the 12.1 . I’m very satisfied with the SQ of the 10.1. Good quality for the price.
Ash on 02/22/2006 18:33:48
If your going for SQ, then the larger box range will sound better. Con is you will need some good mids to go down to where the sub starts to fade out on the higher bass notes. Not hard to attain though, just some good tweaking with the x-over settings to get the right blend.
The Perfects are excellent SQ subs, just make sure you feed them with the proper, clean power and you should have no problems.
newB on 02/22/2006 19:41:35
koo beans...
-Drew
swez on 02/23/2006 06:36:38
When you complete the project and all is well and to your satisfaction, care to drop a few coins in the site donation chest?
Much appreciated bud, CLAP
Swez
Victor on 02/23/2006 15:58:53
yes please, if you find the help provided here useful , it would be appreciated if you help us raise some funds to maintian such a site..
We are already running on a low budget for this year, if we dont have enough funds i guess either the site goes off the internet or Walt would have to pay from his pocket... he has been doing a lot for the site and we would not want to burden him with raising funds too...
Thanks in advance..
Victor...
Ps. Swez and I are available on yahoo, msn or skype messengers so feel free to contact us incase u need some more advise , guidance or help.
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