So, I’m very new to car audio, having pieced together my first system over the last 8-10 months. And I’ve noticed some things about the available products that are confusing. Features or products that I would have thought someone certainly would have made or made differently. Maybe I’m naive, but here are a few things that seem trivial and obvious.
First, why aren’t there more HU (I’m assuming someone has made one, although I can’t find it) without built in amps? Mine is wasting away, taking up real estate (22w rms, pfftht), and manufacturing expenditure that could have been used for something else, like …
Why aren’t hard drives built into HUs? I would love to just put a disk into my HU, press a button, and have the thing ripped into mp3 or wma and saved. I’m tired of dealing with CDs. I can’t fit enough in my car, I end up dumping them on the floor, they are a hassle to change (dangerous while driving), they get dinged the more they are used, invite a smash and grab, and on… If a HU can decode mp3 or wma from disc it can do it from a hard drive. What’s the deal?
And this really goes to the dearth of features. It can’t be space and cost; a Mac mini isn’t any bigger than those double-DIN HU I see all over, and they are cheaper than many. Heck, maybe apple will make an ipod HU and put Pioneer, Kenwood, et al. out of business.
My ideal HU? No amp, (heck, no CD player), a removable hard drive, a wireless networking card that can pull every last ripped CD from my home computer while I sit in the driveway, you know, incase I don’t feel like taking the HD inside. I want it to speak the artist and album as I flip through with the remote so I don’t have to look down. I could probably come up with a lot more if I had all that to get used to. Other folks beside myself want these things. They wanted them bad enough to coble and hack together hardware and software to do all this. I don’t’ have the time or patients, but I would pay JVC or Jensen for it, you know, if they would pull their heads out …
What seems strange is the crap they do pack into them. About the last thing I want from a car stereo is to watch DVDs on a 7-inch LCD, or show me how to get around on the freeway. And what’s up with all the crazy graphics? How about making the stereo a kick a$$ stereo before adding on this kind of superfluous stuff. Sure I’ll need directions or want to watch a DVD in my car, but very occasionally. I change CD every single day. It’s like those Swiss Army knives with the fork and spoon; does anyone use those?
Replies (10)
swez on 02/1/2006 22:20:36
You feel like ranting a bit huh? Welcome to the club!
There are a few high end HU's out there w/o amps. Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony and probably a few others too. They tend to be very pricey, but of very high quality and some handy features as well. HDD in a HU? That sounds like a nice idea in any system but a car. Vibration, temperature and humidity might be a big factor, not to mention a very well regulated power supply.
A 5-10 Gig memory card would be interesting though. Not cheap, but that would be kinda cool. Kenwood has the "Music Keg". Don't know a lot about it, but it's been mentioned a few times.
I agree with you... simplicity, functionality and reliabilty at a fair price, are always good combinations. Forget all the crazy graphics, DVD and annoying Nav units. A good map, plenty of light and my reading glasses work just fine.
Swez
jazzbass on 02/1/2006 23:11:07
You know, a while back Rockford came up with a unit that functioned along the lines of a cd changer, only smaller. You had an external box that would take like six memory cards in slots. The whole thing would fit in a glove box. Where the heck did that idea go? Think about it, memory cards are quite common now with 1 -2 gigs on them. Imagine having 12 gigs of mp3's, wma's or whatever on tap at any moment, with the ability to change out the cards whenever you get tired of the selection?
By the way Swez, the hard drive players, i.e. Ipod, Zen, Rio, all take a fair amount of shock in their daily lives. I mean, how many high school and college students are truly careful with them? A removable one in a head unit prbably wouldn't see nearly the abuse they do. A properly set up system with some type of shock absorption would probably do it.
If only Alpine, sony, Kenwood were reading this...
ttocs on 02/1/2006 23:42:25
sony just released a deck with a smart card built into the face plate. You can hook it up via usb and then just put in on as you normally would. AS for the reason you don't find many hardrives, a car is a horrable place for sensative electronics like a hardrive. They do make them, but they are not cheap nor dependable from what I understand. I have seen people install the din sized apple in their car, but then remember you will need a little lcd to use it...I have a JVCkd-dv5100(er something like that) and it does play dvds, but it also plays mp3 encoded dvd disks. You can fit alot of music on mp3 format on a dvd.........
What kind of amps are you running? Manufacturers are not big on making passive decks as the majority of people just have no use for them. THey are made but they are normally high end SQ units and just not for the normal consurer.
pigwiggle on 02/2/2006 11:43:52
Hard drives are surprisingly robust. Ive mistreated many of them. My laptop gets tons of abuse; the ipod is another good example. Heck, seal it up in dry nitrogen and an anti shock case is if it needs it.
I have a 4lb laptop, most of which is the battery, keyboard, LCD; all stuff that really isnt needed in an HU, and the volume is about the same as my single DIN HU. It does all the stuff I mentioned before; read track and artist names aloud, rip CDs, decode mp3 wma, network wirelessly; it also does many, many more things. You can get one new for under $700. For 3 times the price I can get an HU that does 10 times less.
Music Keg (or any cd changer emulator), ipod adapters; these are just work arounds for an obvious deficiency in their products. For crying out loud, my $50 phone can store mp3s. Really, I dont get it.
Tinker18 on 02/2/2006 13:33:20
I think im gonna drop alpine & kenwood an e-mail, and just see what the execs have to say about the idea. who knows, you might want to grab a patent on that idea......would be popular with me, would pay twice as much for that compared to any other hu out there. just for sheer conveinience. will keep you guys updated on what their responses are if you want.
tink
blacktallon2000 on 02/2/2006 15:48:30
Check out this HU by RF.
I remember seeing something like this about 2 years ago in a crutchfield catalog so I looked it up and to my surprise it's still around and has pretty good reviews too. Wonder why no one else picked up on the concept.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000931HZA/ref=olp_product_details/103-9123628-7853436?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=172282
pigwiggle on 02/2/2006 17:27:54
BT2000-
Exactly what Im looking for (well almost). It looks like the DMP1 was released with some crappy software. The folks working at openfi http://openfi.sourceforge.net/ have written open source freeware that corrects the original deficiency. They have added mp3 support, ff and rw, audible feedback, and more. The funny thing is that the companies wont release certain proprietary information (you can sign a petition to help convince them) to the open source community even though they ended support for their crappy software in 2004. I may buy one of these things. Looks fairly reasonable at $200.
ttocs on 02/4/2006 01:43:15
you are right that laptops are more robust then the apple would be. But I now want you to take your laptop, and mount it to your car. Now try to dodge all the potholes you want but it will still be sustaining vibrations constantly. Imagine using your laptop while you are running, and only when you are running, how long do you think it will last? This is not to mention that it will be seeing temperature variations from artic winters up north to interior summer temps >120 degrees. How long do you really think it would last? I think the music keg and such products have to be priced higher just to keep the profit out of the red. I do not know the mortality rates on them, but they have to expect more then a few of them will be returned.
"I have a 4lb laptop, most of which is the battery, keyboard, LCD; all stuff that really isnt needed in an HU, and the volume is about the same as my single DIN HU. It does all the stuff I mentioned before; read track and artist names aloud, rip CDs, decode mp3 wma, network wirelessly; it also does many, many more things. You can get one new for under $700. For 3 times the price I can get an HU that does 10 times less."---If you have a couple gigs of music on a head unit, how are you going to find the music you want with out a screen? Manufacturers have to think that the majority of people getting these are youngins that already have a hard enough time keeping the car on the road.
pigwiggle on 02/4/2006 13:55:35
So I just bought a DMP1; when I get it installed I’ll let you all know how it works. After reading about the mess RF has made out of the DMP1 and what the open source community has built out of it I’m even more convinced it isn’t a matter of engineering limitations but rather manufacturer ineptitude.
There *will* be a killer product similar to the one I previously described. Take apple for example; they took something other folks were just playing at and nailed it. So what’s the HU manufacturers response to this inspiration; make a connector. Brilliant!
I’m not convinced that computer hardware isn’t robust enough to survive in a car. Folks have been running PCs in their car for quite some time now, and more recently mac minis. There are auto restoration sites on the net that advertise laptop installs. Check out www.dashboardmonkey.com , ‘the first stop for all things Car Computer related.’ In fact, here is a true DIN sized PC running Windows XP.
https://www.karputerdirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=100
ttocs on 02/4/2006 16:37:00
wonder what the warranty is on those?
First, why aren’t there more HU (I’m assuming someone has made one, although I can’t find it) without built in amps? Mine is wasting away, taking up real estate (22w rms, pfftht), and manufacturing expenditure that could have been used for something else, like …
Why aren’t hard drives built into HUs? I would love to just put a disk into my HU, press a button, and have the thing ripped into mp3 or wma and saved. I’m tired of dealing with CDs. I can’t fit enough in my car, I end up dumping them on the floor, they are a hassle to change (dangerous while driving), they get dinged the more they are used, invite a smash and grab, and on… If a HU can decode mp3 or wma from disc it can do it from a hard drive. What’s the deal?
And this really goes to the dearth of features. It can’t be space and cost; a Mac mini isn’t any bigger than those double-DIN HU I see all over, and they are cheaper than many. Heck, maybe apple will make an ipod HU and put Pioneer, Kenwood, et al. out of business.
My ideal HU? No amp, (heck, no CD player), a removable hard drive, a wireless networking card that can pull every last ripped CD from my home computer while I sit in the driveway, you know, incase I don’t feel like taking the HD inside. I want it to speak the artist and album as I flip through with the remote so I don’t have to look down. I could probably come up with a lot more if I had all that to get used to. Other folks beside myself want these things. They wanted them bad enough to coble and hack together hardware and software to do all this. I don’t’ have the time or patients, but I would pay JVC or Jensen for it, you know, if they would pull their heads out …
What seems strange is the crap they do pack into them. About the last thing I want from a car stereo is to watch DVDs on a 7-inch LCD, or show me how to get around on the freeway. And what’s up with all the crazy graphics? How about making the stereo a kick a$$ stereo before adding on this kind of superfluous stuff. Sure I’ll need directions or want to watch a DVD in my car, but very occasionally. I change CD every single day. It’s like those Swiss Army knives with the fork and spoon; does anyone use those?
Replies (10)
swez on 02/1/2006 22:20:36
You feel like ranting a bit huh? Welcome to the club!
There are a few high end HU's out there w/o amps. Pioneer, Kenwood, Sony and probably a few others too. They tend to be very pricey, but of very high quality and some handy features as well. HDD in a HU? That sounds like a nice idea in any system but a car. Vibration, temperature and humidity might be a big factor, not to mention a very well regulated power supply.
A 5-10 Gig memory card would be interesting though. Not cheap, but that would be kinda cool. Kenwood has the "Music Keg". Don't know a lot about it, but it's been mentioned a few times.
I agree with you... simplicity, functionality and reliabilty at a fair price, are always good combinations. Forget all the crazy graphics, DVD and annoying Nav units. A good map, plenty of light and my reading glasses work just fine.
Swez
jazzbass on 02/1/2006 23:11:07
You know, a while back Rockford came up with a unit that functioned along the lines of a cd changer, only smaller. You had an external box that would take like six memory cards in slots. The whole thing would fit in a glove box. Where the heck did that idea go? Think about it, memory cards are quite common now with 1 -2 gigs on them. Imagine having 12 gigs of mp3's, wma's or whatever on tap at any moment, with the ability to change out the cards whenever you get tired of the selection?
By the way Swez, the hard drive players, i.e. Ipod, Zen, Rio, all take a fair amount of shock in their daily lives. I mean, how many high school and college students are truly careful with them? A removable one in a head unit prbably wouldn't see nearly the abuse they do. A properly set up system with some type of shock absorption would probably do it.
If only Alpine, sony, Kenwood were reading this...
ttocs on 02/1/2006 23:42:25
sony just released a deck with a smart card built into the face plate. You can hook it up via usb and then just put in on as you normally would. AS for the reason you don't find many hardrives, a car is a horrable place for sensative electronics like a hardrive. They do make them, but they are not cheap nor dependable from what I understand. I have seen people install the din sized apple in their car, but then remember you will need a little lcd to use it...I have a JVCkd-dv5100(er something like that) and it does play dvds, but it also plays mp3 encoded dvd disks. You can fit alot of music on mp3 format on a dvd.........
What kind of amps are you running? Manufacturers are not big on making passive decks as the majority of people just have no use for them. THey are made but they are normally high end SQ units and just not for the normal consurer.
pigwiggle on 02/2/2006 11:43:52
Hard drives are surprisingly robust. Ive mistreated many of them. My laptop gets tons of abuse; the ipod is another good example. Heck, seal it up in dry nitrogen and an anti shock case is if it needs it.
I have a 4lb laptop, most of which is the battery, keyboard, LCD; all stuff that really isnt needed in an HU, and the volume is about the same as my single DIN HU. It does all the stuff I mentioned before; read track and artist names aloud, rip CDs, decode mp3 wma, network wirelessly; it also does many, many more things. You can get one new for under $700. For 3 times the price I can get an HU that does 10 times less.
Music Keg (or any cd changer emulator), ipod adapters; these are just work arounds for an obvious deficiency in their products. For crying out loud, my $50 phone can store mp3s. Really, I dont get it.
Tinker18 on 02/2/2006 13:33:20
I think im gonna drop alpine & kenwood an e-mail, and just see what the execs have to say about the idea. who knows, you might want to grab a patent on that idea......would be popular with me, would pay twice as much for that compared to any other hu out there. just for sheer conveinience. will keep you guys updated on what their responses are if you want.
tink
blacktallon2000 on 02/2/2006 15:48:30
Check out this HU by RF.
I remember seeing something like this about 2 years ago in a crutchfield catalog so I looked it up and to my surprise it's still around and has pretty good reviews too. Wonder why no one else picked up on the concept.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000931HZA/ref=olp_product_details/103-9123628-7853436?%5Fencoding=UTF8&v=glance&n=172282
pigwiggle on 02/2/2006 17:27:54
BT2000-
Exactly what Im looking for (well almost). It looks like the DMP1 was released with some crappy software. The folks working at openfi http://openfi.sourceforge.net/ have written open source freeware that corrects the original deficiency. They have added mp3 support, ff and rw, audible feedback, and more. The funny thing is that the companies wont release certain proprietary information (you can sign a petition to help convince them) to the open source community even though they ended support for their crappy software in 2004. I may buy one of these things. Looks fairly reasonable at $200.
ttocs on 02/4/2006 01:43:15
you are right that laptops are more robust then the apple would be. But I now want you to take your laptop, and mount it to your car. Now try to dodge all the potholes you want but it will still be sustaining vibrations constantly. Imagine using your laptop while you are running, and only when you are running, how long do you think it will last? This is not to mention that it will be seeing temperature variations from artic winters up north to interior summer temps >120 degrees. How long do you really think it would last? I think the music keg and such products have to be priced higher just to keep the profit out of the red. I do not know the mortality rates on them, but they have to expect more then a few of them will be returned.
"I have a 4lb laptop, most of which is the battery, keyboard, LCD; all stuff that really isnt needed in an HU, and the volume is about the same as my single DIN HU. It does all the stuff I mentioned before; read track and artist names aloud, rip CDs, decode mp3 wma, network wirelessly; it also does many, many more things. You can get one new for under $700. For 3 times the price I can get an HU that does 10 times less."---If you have a couple gigs of music on a head unit, how are you going to find the music you want with out a screen? Manufacturers have to think that the majority of people getting these are youngins that already have a hard enough time keeping the car on the road.
pigwiggle on 02/4/2006 13:55:35
So I just bought a DMP1; when I get it installed I’ll let you all know how it works. After reading about the mess RF has made out of the DMP1 and what the open source community has built out of it I’m even more convinced it isn’t a matter of engineering limitations but rather manufacturer ineptitude.
There *will* be a killer product similar to the one I previously described. Take apple for example; they took something other folks were just playing at and nailed it. So what’s the HU manufacturers response to this inspiration; make a connector. Brilliant!
I’m not convinced that computer hardware isn’t robust enough to survive in a car. Folks have been running PCs in their car for quite some time now, and more recently mac minis. There are auto restoration sites on the net that advertise laptop installs. Check out www.dashboardmonkey.com , ‘the first stop for all things Car Computer related.’ In fact, here is a true DIN sized PC running Windows XP.
https://www.karputerdirect.com/product_info.php?cPath=33&products_id=100
ttocs on 02/4/2006 16:37:00
wonder what the warranty is on those?
Copyright ClubKnowledge 2009 * All Rights Reserved
